Balancing Act, Mark 2 [Archive] - Wizards Community

Balancing Act, Mark 2 [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Return of the Flumph
05-01-07, 11:47 PM A while ago I asked you guys to help me balance the races I'm planning on putting in my homebrew. Your comments were extremely helpful. Here are the races that were criticized for being broken or over/underpowered, now with the suggested revisions (and a few other adjustments I came up with on my own).

I'm not sure if they are all balanced LA+0's yet, but they are certainly much closer. Tell me how to finish the job.

Mountain Gnome (dwarf/gnome)
-Small humanoid: +1 AC, +1 to attack rolls, +4 to hide checks, -4 to grapple checks, lifting/carrying limits ž those of a Medium character, base speed 20.
-Darkvision (30).
-Ability scores: +2 constitution, -2 strength. Mountain gnomes are solidly built, but weakly muscled.
-Skill bonuses: +2 Appraise, Listen, and Craft (engineering).
-Stability: Mountain gnomes have a +2 bonus to resist being bull rushed or tripped.
-+4 dodge bonus to armor class against giants.
-Save Bonuses: +2 to saving throws versus poison.
-Automatic languages: Common, Dwarven, and Gnomish.
-Bonus languages: Orcish, Goblin, Undercommon, Sylvan, Draconic.

Goblin
-Small humanoid: +1 AC, +1 to attack rolls, +4 to hide checks, -4 to grapple checks, lifting/carrying limits ž those of a Medium character.
-Base speed: 30.
-Darkvision: 30.
-Ability scores: +2 dexterity, -2 strength, -2 charisma. Goblins are agile, but servile by nature and physically weak.
-Light sensitivity: -1 to attack rolls, skill checks, and saving throws in bright light.
-Skill bonuses: +2 Move Silently, Escape Artist, Hide, Climb, and Ride. These are all considered class skills.
-Save bonuses: +2 to saves versus poison and disease.
-Automatic languages: Common, Goblin.
-Bonus languages: Dwarven, Orcish, Elvish, Undercommon.

Hobgoblin
-Medium humanoid.
-Darkvision: 30.
-Ability scores: +2 dexterity, -2 wisdom. Hobgoblins are eerily graceful, but also arrogant and overconfident.
-Skill bonuses: +2 Move Silently and Hide.
-Light sensitivity: -1 to attack rolls, skill checks, and saving throws in bright light.
-Automatic languages: Common, Goblin.
-Bonus languages: Dwarven, Orcish, Elvish, Undercommon.

Orc
-Medium humanoid.
-Low light vision.
-Ability scores: +2 strength, +2 constitution, -2 intelligence, -2 charisma. Orcs are very strong and hardy, but also stupid and belligerent.
-Skill bonuses: +2 Survival and Wilderness Lore (mountain orc), or +2 Profession (Sailor), and Swim (sea orc). These are treated as class skills by the respective orc subraces.
-Weapon Familiarity: orc double axe.
-Automatic languages: Common, Orcish.
-Bonus languages: Goblin, Dwarven, Giant (mountain orc only), and Sea Common (sea orc only).

Half-Orc
-Medium humanoid.
-Low light vision.
-Ability scores: +2 strength, -2 intelligence. Half orcs are strong, but slow on the uptake.
-Skill points: four extra skill points at first level, one extra point at every level thereafter.
-Weapon Familiarity: orc double axe.
-Automatic languages: Common, Orcish.
-Bonus languages: Goblin, Dwarven, Giant (half mountain orc only), and Mercommon (half sea orc only).

Uruk-Hai (orc/hobgoblin)
-Medium humanoid.
-Low light vision.
-Darkvision (30)
-Ability scores: +2 strength, -2 charisma. Uruk-hai are muscular, but violent and aggressive.
-Skill Bonuses: +2 Move Silently
-Automatic languages: Common, and either Orcish or Goblin.
-Bonus languages: Dwarven, Elvish, Undercommon, Giant (half mountain orc only), and Mercommon (half sea orc only).

Kurik
-Medium aberration: kuriks are immune to effects that only work on humanoids.
-Darkvision (30).
-+1 natural armor.
-Ability Scores: -2 charisma. Kuriks seem confusing and unsettling to most others.
-Light Manipulation: One per day, a kurik can become invisible as the spell as a swift action for a single round.
-Alien Celerity: Kuriks have a +2 bonus to initiative.
-Bite: 1d4 damage, no strength bonus. The kurik cannot use this in the same round as another attack without haste or the Multiattack feat.
-Skill Bonuses: +2 Knowledge (the planes) and Escape Artist.
-Skill Penalties: -2 Balance.
-Automatic languages: Common and Kurik.
-Bonus languages: Sylvan, Necropolitan, Celestial, Infernal, Auran, Ignan Aquan, Terran.
AMGriffin
05-02-07, 10:02 AM A while ago I asked you guys to help me balance the races I'm planning on putting in my homebrew. Your comments were extremely helpful. Here are the races that were criticized for being broken or over/underpowered, now with the suggested revisions (and a few other adjustments I came up with on my own).

I'm not sure if they are all balanced LA+0's yet, but they are certainly much closer. Tell me how to finish the job.

Mountain Gnome (dwarf/gnome)
-Small humanoid: +1 AC, +1 to attack rolls, +4 to hide checks, -4 to grapple checks, lifting/carrying limits ž those of a Medium character, base speed 20.
-Darkvision (30).
-Ability scores: +2 constitution, -2 strength. Mountain gnomes are solidly built, but weakly muscled.
-Skill bonuses: +2 Appraise, Listen, and Craft (engineering).
-Stability: Mountain gnomes have a +2 bonus to resist being bull rushed or tripped.
-+4 dodge bonus to armor class against giants.
-Save Bonuses: +2 to saving throws versus poison.
-Automatic languages: Common, Dwarven, and Gnomish.
-Bonus languages: Orcish, Goblin, Undercommon, Sylvan, Draconic.

Hmm... It's kinda weak, weaker then th PHB Gnome, which was kinda meh. Perhaps if you got rid of stability, and added something like powerful build it would work pretty well. Stability doesn't make sense really, Half-human orcs are physically just as solid as dwarves, but get nothing to show for it.

Goblin
-Small humanoid: +1 AC, +1 to attack rolls, +4 to hide checks, -4 to grapple checks, lifting/carrying limits ž those of a Medium character.
-Base speed: 30.
-Darkvision: 30.
-Ability scores: +2 dexterity, -2 strength, -2 charisma. Goblins are agile, but servile by nature and physically weak.
-Light sensitivity: -1 to attack rolls, skill checks, and saving throws in bright light.
-Skill bonuses: +2 Move Silently, Escape Artist, Hide, Climb, and Ride. These are all considered class skills.
-Save bonuses: +2 to saves versus poison and disease.
-Automatic languages: Common, Goblin.
-Bonus languages: Dwarven, Orcish, Elvish, Undercommon.

Balanced.

Hobgoblin
-Medium humanoid.
-Darkvision: 30.
-Ability scores: +2 dexterity, -2 wisdom. Hobgoblins are eerily graceful, but also arrogant and overconfident.
-Skill bonuses: +2 Move Silently and Hide.
-Light sensitivity: -1 to attack rolls, skill checks, and saving throws in bright light.
-Automatic languages: Common, Goblin.
-Bonus languages: Dwarven, Orcish, Elvish, Undercommon.

Whoa, way unbalanced. They've got almost nothing to them. You could start by eliminating the light sensitivity. Then give them some stuff to reflect their warrior nature, like maybe automatic proficiency with one exotic wepaon of their choice and a craft bonus related to making weaponry.

Orc
-Medium humanoid.
-Low light vision.
-Ability scores: +2 strength, +2 constitution, -2 intelligence, -2 charisma. Orcs are very strong and hardy, but also stupid and belligerent.
-Skill bonuses: +2 Survival and Wilderness Lore (mountain orc), or +2 Profession (Sailor), and Swim (sea orc). These are treated as class skills by the respective orc subraces.
-Weapon Familiarity: orc double axe.
-Automatic languages: Common, Orcish.
-Bonus languages: Goblin, Dwarven, Giant (mountain orc only), and Sea Common (sea orc only).

Balanced.

Half-Orc
-Medium humanoid.
-Low light vision.
-Ability scores: +2 strength, -2 intelligence. Half orcs are strong, but slow on the uptake.
-Skill points: four extra skill points at first level, one extra point at every level thereafter.
-Weapon Familiarity: orc double axe.
-Automatic languages: Common, Orcish.
-Bonus languages: Goblin, Dwarven, Giant (half mountain orc only), and Mercommon (half sea orc only).

Why the familiarity? What if they're human raised? I'd also consider icing the intelligence penalty and the bonus skill points, so it's just got an even +2 strength. The intelligence penalty really only serves to deter them from being wizards it seems like. Some bonuses to reflect their unique position as half-breeds isn't a bad idea either. Maybe +2 racial bonuses on sense motive and survival. They're going to always have to be on the lookout for danger and be able to take care of themself.

Uruk-Hai (orc/hobgoblin)
-Medium humanoid.
-Low light vision.
-Darkvision (30)
-Ability scores: +2 strength, -2 charisma. Uruk-hai are muscular, but violent and aggressive.
-Skill Bonuses: +2 Move Silently
-Automatic languages: Common, and either Orcish or Goblin.
-Bonus languages: Dwarven, Elvish, Undercommon, Giant (half mountain orc only), and Mercommon (half sea orc only).

Still not too crazy about this race, it seems redundant.

Kurik
-Medium aberration: kuriks are immune to effects that only work on humanoids.
-Darkvision (30).
-+1 natural armor.
-Ability Scores: -2 charisma. Kuriks seem confusing and unsettling to most others.
-Light Manipulation: One per day, a kurik can become invisible as the spell as a swift action for a single round.
-Alien Celerity: Kuriks have a +2 bonus to initiative.
-Bite: 1d4 damage, no strength bonus. The kurik cannot use this in the same round as another attack without haste or the Multiattack feat.
-Skill Bonuses: +2 Knowledge (the planes) and Escape Artist.
-Skill Penalties: -2 Balance.
-Automatic languages: Common and Kurik.
-Bonus languages: Sylvan, Necropolitan, Celestial, Infernal, Auran, Ignan Aquan, Terran.

Balanced.
Return of the Flumph
05-02-07, 02:17 PM Powerful Build is perfect for the mountain gnome. I'll do it.

For the hobgoblin, what do you say I take away the wisdom penalty and give them Martial Weapon Proficiency with one martial weapon of their choice, making them a more attractive rogue/caster race?

Lose the int penalty and bonus skills for half orc...lose proficiency...but then there's nothing distinctively orcish OR human about them. I'll try and think of something else.

Uruk-Hai is redundant, I know, but it basically is supposed to be a varient half orc for people who want a charisma penalty instead of an intelligence one. Roleplaying one is also very different, of course (hobgoblin background).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Return of the Flumph 05-01-07, 11:47 PM	A while ago I asked you guys to help me balance the races I'm planning on putting in my homebrew. Your comments were extremely helpful. Here are the races that were criticized for being broken or over/underpowered, now with the suggested revisions (and a few other adjustments I came up with on my own). I'm not sure if they are all balanced LA+0's yet, but they are certainly much closer. Tell me how to finish the job. Mountain Gnome (dwarf/gnome) -Small humanoid: +1 AC, +1 to attack rolls, +4 to hide checks, -4 to grapple checks, lifting/carrying limits ž those of a Medium character, base speed 20. -Darkvision (30). -Ability scores: +2 constitution, -2 strength. Mountain gnomes are solidly built, but weakly muscled. -Skill bonuses: +2 Appraise, Listen, and Craft (engineering). -Stability: Mountain gnomes have a +2 bonus to resist being bull rushed or tripped. -+4 dodge bonus to armor class against giants. -Save Bonuses: +2 to saving throws versus poison. -Automatic languages: Common, Dwarven, and Gnomish. -Bonus languages: Orcish, Goblin, Undercommon, Sylvan, Draconic. Goblin -Small humanoid: +1 AC, +1 to attack rolls, +4 to hide checks, -4 to grapple checks, lifting/carrying limits ž those of a Medium character. -Base speed: 30. -Darkvision: 30. -Ability scores: +2 dexterity, -2 strength, -2 charisma. Goblins are agile, but servile by nature and physically weak. -Light sensitivity: -1 to attack rolls, skill checks, and saving throws in bright light. -Skill bonuses: +2 Move Silently, Escape Artist, Hide, Climb, and Ride. These are all considered class skills. -Save bonuses: +2 to saves versus poison and disease. -Automatic languages: Common, Goblin. -Bonus languages: Dwarven, Orcish, Elvish, Undercommon. Hobgoblin -Medium humanoid. -Darkvision: 30. -Ability scores: +2 dexterity, -2 wisdom. Hobgoblins are eerily graceful, but also arrogant and overconfident. -Skill bonuses: +2 Move Silently and Hide. -Light sensitivity: -1 to attack rolls, skill checks, and saving throws in bright light. -Automatic languages: Common, Goblin. -Bonus languages: Dwarven, Orcish, Elvish, Undercommon. Orc -Medium humanoid. -Low light vision. -Ability scores: +2 strength, +2 constitution, -2 intelligence, -2 charisma. Orcs are very strong and hardy, but also stupid and belligerent. -Skill bonuses: +2 Survival and Wilderness Lore (mountain orc), or +2 Profession (Sailor), and Swim (sea orc). These are treated as class skills by the respective orc subraces. -Weapon Familiarity: orc double axe. -Automatic languages: Common, Orcish. -Bonus languages: Goblin, Dwarven, Giant (mountain orc only), and Sea Common (sea orc only). Half-Orc -Medium humanoid. -Low light vision. -Ability scores: +2 strength, -2 intelligence. Half orcs are strong, but slow on the uptake. -Skill points: four extra skill points at first level, one extra point at every level thereafter. -Weapon Familiarity: orc double axe. -Automatic languages: Common, Orcish. -Bonus languages: Goblin, Dwarven, Giant (half mountain orc only), and Mercommon (half sea orc only). Uruk-Hai (orc/hobgoblin) -Medium humanoid. -Low light vision. -Darkvision (30) -Ability scores: +2 strength, -2 charisma. Uruk-hai are muscular, but violent and aggressive. -Skill Bonuses: +2 Move Silently -Automatic languages: Common, and either Orcish or Goblin. -Bonus languages: Dwarven, Elvish, Undercommon, Giant (half mountain orc only), and Mercommon (half sea orc only). Kurik -Medium aberration: kuriks are immune to effects that only work on humanoids. -Darkvision (30). -+1 natural armor. -Ability Scores: -2 charisma. Kuriks seem confusing and unsettling to most others. -Light Manipulation: One per day, a kurik can become invisible as the spell as a swift action for a single round. -Alien Celerity: Kuriks have a +2 bonus to initiative. -Bite: 1d4 damage, no strength bonus. The kurik cannot use this in the same round as another attack without haste or the Multiattack feat. -Skill Bonuses: +2 Knowledge (the planes) and Escape Artist. -Skill Penalties: -2 Balance. -Automatic languages: Common and Kurik. -Bonus languages: Sylvan, Necropolitan, Celestial, Infernal, Auran, Ignan Aquan, Terran.
AMGriffin 05-02-07, 10:02 AM	A while ago I asked you guys to help me balance the races I'm planning on putting in my homebrew. Your comments were extremely helpful. Here are the races that were criticized for being broken or over/underpowered, now with the suggested revisions (and a few other adjustments I came up with on my own). I'm not sure if they are all balanced LA+0's yet, but they are certainly much closer. Tell me how to finish the job. Mountain Gnome (dwarf/gnome) -Small humanoid: +1 AC, +1 to attack rolls, +4 to hide checks, -4 to grapple checks, lifting/carrying limits ž those of a Medium character, base speed 20. -Darkvision (30). -Ability scores: +2 constitution, -2 strength. Mountain gnomes are solidly built, but weakly muscled. -Skill bonuses: +2 Appraise, Listen, and Craft (engineering). -Stability: Mountain gnomes have a +2 bonus to resist being bull rushed or tripped. -+4 dodge bonus to armor class against giants. -Save Bonuses: +2 to saving throws versus poison. -Automatic languages: Common, Dwarven, and Gnomish. -Bonus languages: Orcish, Goblin, Undercommon, Sylvan, Draconic. Hmm... It's kinda weak, weaker then th PHB Gnome, which was kinda meh. Perhaps if you got rid of stability, and added something like powerful build it would work pretty well. Stability doesn't make sense really, Half-human orcs are physically just as solid as dwarves, but get nothing to show for it. Goblin -Small humanoid: +1 AC, +1 to attack rolls, +4 to hide checks, -4 to grapple checks, lifting/carrying limits ž those of a Medium character. -Base speed: 30. -Darkvision: 30. -Ability scores: +2 dexterity, -2 strength, -2 charisma. Goblins are agile, but servile by nature and physically weak. -Light sensitivity: -1 to attack rolls, skill checks, and saving throws in bright light. -Skill bonuses: +2 Move Silently, Escape Artist, Hide, Climb, and Ride. These are all considered class skills. -Save bonuses: +2 to saves versus poison and disease. -Automatic languages: Common, Goblin. -Bonus languages: Dwarven, Orcish, Elvish, Undercommon. Balanced. Hobgoblin -Medium humanoid. -Darkvision: 30. -Ability scores: +2 dexterity, -2 wisdom. Hobgoblins are eerily graceful, but also arrogant and overconfident. -Skill bonuses: +2 Move Silently and Hide. -Light sensitivity: -1 to attack rolls, skill checks, and saving throws in bright light. -Automatic languages: Common, Goblin. -Bonus languages: Dwarven, Orcish, Elvish, Undercommon. Whoa, way unbalanced. They've got almost nothing to them. You could start by eliminating the light sensitivity. Then give them some stuff to reflect their warrior nature, like maybe automatic proficiency with one exotic wepaon of their choice and a craft bonus related to making weaponry. Orc -Medium humanoid. -Low light vision. -Ability scores: +2 strength, +2 constitution, -2 intelligence, -2 charisma. Orcs are very strong and hardy, but also stupid and belligerent. -Skill bonuses: +2 Survival and Wilderness Lore (mountain orc), or +2 Profession (Sailor), and Swim (sea orc). These are treated as class skills by the respective orc subraces. -Weapon Familiarity: orc double axe. -Automatic languages: Common, Orcish. -Bonus languages: Goblin, Dwarven, Giant (mountain orc only), and Sea Common (sea orc only). Balanced. Half-Orc -Medium humanoid. -Low light vision. -Ability scores: +2 strength, -2 intelligence. Half orcs are strong, but slow on the uptake. -Skill points: four extra skill points at first level, one extra point at every level thereafter. -Weapon Familiarity: orc double axe. -Automatic languages: Common, Orcish. -Bonus languages: Goblin, Dwarven, Giant (half mountain orc only), and Mercommon (half sea orc only). Why the familiarity? What if they're human raised? I'd also consider icing the intelligence penalty and the bonus skill points, so it's just got an even +2 strength. The intelligence penalty really only serves to deter them from being wizards it seems like. Some bonuses to reflect their unique position as half-breeds isn't a bad idea either. Maybe +2 racial bonuses on sense motive and survival. They're going to always have to be on the lookout for danger and be able to take care of themself. Uruk-Hai (orc/hobgoblin) -Medium humanoid. -Low light vision. -Darkvision (30) -Ability scores: +2 strength, -2 charisma. Uruk-hai are muscular, but violent and aggressive. -Skill Bonuses: +2 Move Silently -Automatic languages: Common, and either Orcish or Goblin. -Bonus languages: Dwarven, Elvish, Undercommon, Giant (half mountain orc only), and Mercommon (half sea orc only). Still not too crazy about this race, it seems redundant. Kurik -Medium aberration: kuriks are immune to effects that only work on humanoids. -Darkvision (30). -+1 natural armor. -Ability Scores: -2 charisma. Kuriks seem confusing and unsettling to most others. -Light Manipulation: One per day, a kurik can become invisible as the spell as a swift action for a single round. -Alien Celerity: Kuriks have a +2 bonus to initiative. -Bite: 1d4 damage, no strength bonus. The kurik cannot use this in the same round as another attack without haste or the Multiattack feat. -Skill Bonuses: +2 Knowledge (the planes) and Escape Artist. -Skill Penalties: -2 Balance. -Automatic languages: Common and Kurik. -Bonus languages: Sylvan, Necropolitan, Celestial, Infernal, Auran, Ignan Aquan, Terran. Balanced.
Return of the Flumph 05-02-07, 02:17 PM	Powerful Build is perfect for the mountain gnome. I'll do it. For the hobgoblin, what do you say I take away the wisdom penalty and give them Martial Weapon Proficiency with one martial weapon of their choice, making them a more attractive rogue/caster race? Lose the int penalty and bonus skills for half orc...lose proficiency...but then there's nothing distinctively orcish OR human about them. I'll try and think of something else. Uruk-Hai is redundant, I know, but it basically is supposed to be a varient half orc for people who want a charisma penalty instead of an intelligence one. Roleplaying one is also very different, of course (hobgoblin background).