Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Narren 06-01-07, 08:39 PM	One of my players was killed and subsequently reincarnated. We've been using 3.0 rules, where the list is composed primarily of animals. The formerly human bard is now a bear. Where do we go from there? Does he gain experience? Levels? The party is refusing to give a bear treasure, so I have a feeling the future is going to hold a mauling or two (and probably a new rug afterwards, but just in case it works out I'd like to know where to go from here).
Beefypistolsnipe 06-01-07, 08:47 PM	Well, first I would say that it probably wouldn't have been a good idea to reincarnate him in the first place... Does the reincarnated person keep his/her mind? If so, then I suppose he could gain class levels like an awakened creature. If not, and the reincarnated person's spirit is simply inside an inferior brain, you could try awakening it, thereby granting it the sentience it once had. I'm not familiar with the limitations of wish or miracle, but one of these might give him back his old body. I have no idea how he would get back levels or experience, and this character might be just plain screwed.
Omega_Grey 06-01-07, 08:56 PM	If I remember right the 3.0 reincarnation states that the character retains all abilities that it had in its previous form that were not race specific and gained all the new racial abilities of the new form. In fact it even had a handy little chart on the new stat adjustments that the character possessed, and I think that the character gained the ability to speak in his new form and was treated as a magical beast instead of an animal. So having said all that it doesn't say that you gain the racial Hit Dice so I think you could keep going as is from there (maybe give him a level adjustment of 1 to make up for the new stat adjustment), then again if you feel like having him be more of a bear and have him have the racial hit dice thats fine too, I just probably wouldn't give him a level adjustment in addition to taking all those animal HD (I would still bump his level to be the equivalent of his class levels plus his animal HD though).
malykoth 06-01-07, 09:10 PM	I don't suppose your bard liked riding little unicycles while wearing a clown hat, did he? It's a performance, all right...but could it inspire courage? Perhaps different unicycle patterns and tricks could result for different bardic music effects. "Hey! Look at Bruno riding up that ramp onto that tightrope! I feel so...inspired...right now!"
neilthrun 06-01-07, 09:11 PM	I would not give him a level adjustment as stated above. Racial HD are largely inferior to class levels, especially for a caster. I would give him the HD as an addition to his ECL for determining xp.
skywyze 06-01-07, 09:15 PM	Talk to the player, find out what they want and try to make your campaign the most fun. Generic, I know, but since the rules are a bit unclear, you may as well make the most out of the leeway. ;)
Rerecros 06-01-07, 09:58 PM	:D Look for the bear necessities The simple bear necessities Forget about your worries and your strife I mean the bare necessities Old Mother Nature's recipes That brings the bear necessities of life
Narren 06-02-07, 12:10 AM	He is interested in continuing as a bear, but the other party members agreed that they would not give a bear treasure (I think they're being a bit unreasonable, but I let them work these things out amongst themselves....it's their money/treasure). So if it doesn't come to blows (my group actually enjoys infighting) then I think he's going to be sold to a nearby circus. One of the players asked him if he wanted take part in some scam they came up with, but he'll probably be abandoned to the ringmaster.
Rerecros 06-02-07, 12:32 AM	Is this by any chance an evil campain, the PCs using such an unreliable spell on an ally simply to torment him? Anyways, just have the druid awaken him (less xp penalties because the mental stats won't have to change) so he can talk, cast spells and use other bard abilities. He should probably take the Warchanter PrC to be more effective in a fight. And if the other PCs won't share their loot he can just maul them :D.
BW0222 06-02-07, 12:33 PM	Narren, One of my players was killed and subsequently reincarnated. We've been using 3.0 rules, where the list is composed primarily of animals. The formerly human bard is now a bear. Ok. There is a reason why 3.5 moved to having humaniod only lists. Rules for folks reincarnated into animals in 3.0 are a bit vague. DM has to rule on a lot of things. Where do we go from there? No reason he can't keep playing this. It might be difficult, but it certainly can be done. Does he gain experience? Levels? Of course. Any creature with a 3 or higher intelligence can gain class levels. He retains all his bard levels, skills, feats, etc. His intelligence, wisdom, and charisma stay the same. His strength, dexterity, and constitution are adjusted by +8/+2/+4 (black bear) or +15/+2/+8 (brown bear) -- after removing any previous racial bonuses. His ability to use equipment, manipulate items, cast spells, speak, sing, etc. might be an issue. Multi-classing into a fighter, barbarian, or ranger might be a good idea, but depending upon his/her bard build a bard-bear might be a mighty scary thing. Given time, maybe he could figure ways around such limitations. Examples... Maybe the DM would allow him to take natural spell provided he took a level of druid and found some druids willing to teach him. Perhaps he can find some type of magical item with speak with animals -- so others can talk with him -- or maybe telepathy. I'd certainly be going for drums, horn, or some type of instrument that a bear might be able to play. The party is refusing to give a bear treasure, so I have a feeling the future is going to hold a mauling or two (and probably a new rug afterwards, but just in case it works out I'd like to know where to go from here). Why wouldn't the party want the bear to have treasure? Personally, I'd be looking for some magical chain shirt, magical cloaks, potions, magical drums, etc. which the bear-bard could use. Unless this is an evil party, why wouldn't you want to help out our friend? Even if only because an armored bard-bear with drums of panic and a staff of charming might actually be useful.
Narren 06-02-07, 02:58 PM	Truthfully, I don't know why the party doesn't accept their friend as a bear. They're not evil, some are good and some are neutral. The party is only level 2, so he's a huge asset in combat. Oh well, we'll see what they do tommorow night. I appreciate everyones help.
skywyze 06-02-07, 03:00 PM	Seriously, don't **** off a bear. I've had near-epic campaigns wipe to a bear once. Sure, it had a few templates stacked on, but it was still mostly a bear.
Egarb 06-02-07, 04:40 PM	A similar thing happened to my character, my ninja got mauled and was subsequently reincarnated as a black bear. He went from "sneaky invisible rogue" to "hardcore invisible front line fighter". But its certainly unreasonable for the party not to give him treasure. Theres no reason he cant use magic items. He could still wear gloves, armor, bracers, boots, rings, amulets of all sorts, etc. Besides, how else is he going to afford gloves of man (savage species, lets you use your claws just like hands)? Why is it exactly that they dont want to give him treasure? Its not as if he cant use it. Seems like theyre just being jerks. He should definately maul some of them, especially since hes so much stronger now. On a rules note, he retains his mental scores and gains the bears physical bonuses (after subtracting previous racial adjustments). He would lose any racial features, but gain the bear racial features (darkvision, scent, etc). My group decided that bears could walk on two legs at half speed and had an LA of +1.
Thief_of_Hope 06-03-07, 02:09 AM	There are good members in a party that is knowingly depriving a comrade of his fair share of loot? Does that even work? If he's earned his share of it, that's akin to stealing it from him. Ah well, it's your group. I'd like to see the bear bard have his performance be singing. That would be hilarious. :P Bear Bard: "RAAAUUUGH!" Party Rogue: "Wow, I feel inspired!" Goblin: *Faints*
Keaerin 06-03-07, 02:38 AM	Bear Bard: "RAAAUUUGH!" Party Rogue: "Wow, I feel inspired!" Goblin: *Faints* Damnit you made me spill my drink when I read this...
Lionhearted 06-03-07, 04:21 PM	:D Look for the bear necessities The simple bear necessities Forget about your worries and your strife I mean the bare necessities Old Mother Nature's recipes That brings the bear necessities of life for those that didnt get the gag http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kogfJNrkwAs Although i like my native version better, swedish disney singers were the best :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98Za--aMlfg Anthromorphic bear bard ftw
Ogrebear 06-04-07, 08:42 AM	You could always allow the player to become more bear-man than bear? Perhaps using a Druidic ritual? There are some good Bearmen stats here: Ursanare (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-215031) I played one of these guys and it was a lot of fun and not unbalanced either. There is a Bear Folk race in here (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2721&) on RPGnow but it needs a bit of tweaking to work. Also some suggestions here: on the archive (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-642507.html) As another idea hows about letting him take levels in Bear from the Savage Progressions Wizards did for the Werebear 'class' here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031114a) I would further suggest that if you can give the Bear a way of talking to the other characters then they will remember this is their Bard buddy who has been transformed and perhaps remember he needs a share of the loot. Perhaps some sort of magical 'voicebox' hung round his neck?
Kevin Andrew Murphy 06-04-07, 02:23 PM	I personally think you should give the bear the ability to talk, which is in the old rules anyway. If not, and you're looking for a druid to Awaken that ability into him (though it's a lazy druid who didn't think of this first when they reincarnated him), let the bear bard take skill ranks in Performance: Mime. There's also the possibility of letting them find a Hat of Disguise in some treasure and let the bear put it on before anyone can argue. First, are you going to take the hat away from a bear? Second, since he is intelligent, he can use it to look like his old bard form, even if for some reason he can't talk. The party at this point would probably realize they're being rather silly/greedy when they see their mute friend standing there. I'd think that bear claws would make some pretty effective lute pics anyway.
Lady Maedhros 06-04-07, 03:05 PM	The rules say he can talk, so there's no reason to think he can't sing. His bardic music is still available to him. And I do like the idea of drums, heh. Dunno about spells with somatic components, though - as a DM, I'd rule he can still use his spells as though he were humanoid; since this is now his natural form, he'd learn spells in a way that he could use them, like couatls or whatever. But asking him to take Natural Spell isn't crazy. As for the treasure, well, he shouldn't need much right now. He won't ever need weapons, for example; claw/claw/bite with a bear's strength mod is pretty damn powerful as far as melee goes, and as a straight bard it's already as many attacks as he'll usually make in a round. He'll need an amulet of mighty fists eventually, as well as some nice barding and the like, and of course cloaks of resistance and the like, but at level 2 he should be good on his own for a while. However, at level 2? He will slaughter the entire party if he turns on them. So, apart from not being remotely consistent with their "good" alignments, his party is just being stupid by denying him treasure.
joshlordofillogic 06-04-07, 04:03 PM	Stephen Colbert would go on a field day with this situation :D besides that There are rules for armoring animals, and they're pretty effective too. a bear with it's natural armor +4 for a chain "shirt" would be nearly untouchable at 2. Had this happened to me I would definately start taking levels in barbarian, the -2 ac would offset the awesome beefit of armor+nat armor. plus what's the favored class for bears? should the player want to return to natural form I would just have a random polymorphing villan have something go horribly wrong leaving the player in his normal form and the villan the bear. would be the best caster villan ever!