Beholders and Angels as playable races? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Beholders and Angels as playable races? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kwanzaabot
02-01-08, 05:49 PM They seem like a weird combination, but yeah. I've been looking for versions of these creatures that could work as a player character. I've got Savage Species, and I quite like the Astral Deva in it, but i'd really like something a bit simpler.
Like, Angel-Lite or something. Same goes for the Beholder. Something with a really minimal level adjustment. :D

So yeah, if anyone could point me in the right direction, it'd be much appreciated. I'd prefer homebrew stuff, as my budget's a little tight at the moment, but if there's books for what I need, that'd be good too. :)
High Octane
02-01-08, 07:41 PM Half-angel works as a playable race, with a pretty high +LA though.

Theres always Aasimar, for the reeeeeally light angel. (Listed under Planetouched) LA of a mere +1.

Both of theres are in the Monster manual.

Can't help you on beholder. It was never meant to be a playable race.
runestar
02-01-08, 07:55 PM You could try the LA+0 aasimar variant in PGTF, and take the celestial heritage line of feats in races of faerun (which give you a small number of SLAs and more importantly, wings to represent your celestial blood).

You pretty much have the whole angel look nailed down, just use class lvs to determine what sort of abilities you want it to have. Cleric or paladin work well. Crusader is not bad either.

Beholder was given an ECL of 24 in a previous issue of dragon, IIRC.
TheDragonmaster
02-01-08, 08:04 PM Lords of Madness might help for lighter beholders (or rather, beholderkin)... you might want an extra look on the Spectator for a nonevil one...
EdrickTheGreat
02-01-08, 09:07 PM I don't think Beholders were meant to be played...considering they're all driven by madness.

As for angel like, try going Aasimar. You might wanna dumb down half celestial. Going Celestial bloodline for Unearthed Arcana.
The_Shaman
02-01-08, 10:33 PM Ideally aasimars can qualify for the LA-less treatment in Player's guide to Faerun... I mean LA+1 is tolerable, but LA+0 is even better.
sigma999
02-01-08, 10:45 PM With the LA+0 Assimar, there's no reason to play as the LA+1.
For what, ya know?
Light 1/day? More elemental resistances?
Sheeeah.

A LA+0 Aasimar with levels of Cleric, Favored Soul, or Warlock do nicely to emulate angels.
It's easy to use equipment for wings (Wings of Flying. duh.) but make it so that the item grants constant Fly as the spell for higher price rather than X uses per day or minutes or whatever bull- limitation.
If you mean a racial class, you're on your own. Angels, by purpose, are created powerful; it would be unthematic and silly to have a level 1 angel, but it's possible.
Savage Species did it wrong.

Beholder is a mess of a creature, and not much better as a PC.
Apart from the Stone, Charm, and Disintegrate beams, though, the rays aren't too powerful. Take off those 3 and it's pretty much a lame monster.
Not better than a Wizard with a quiver full of wands.
Without the rays, it's just a floating ugly ball with a bite.
If you reaaally want a PC Beholder, keep the Telekinesis but nerf it to Mage Hand until level 7, and same with the other effects.
Make the eye beams no better than spells any Wizard could cast at the same level, and it's fine.
runestar
02-01-08, 10:57 PM An aasimar cleric should be able to pass off as an angel. His spellcasting can replicate quite a lot of their racial abilities, and you can fight well too.

If you mean a racial class, you're on your own. Angels, by purpose, are created powerful; it would be unthematic and silly to have a level 1 angel, but it's possible.
Savage Species did it wrong.

SS was designed to allow powerful races to be playable from 1st lv onwards. Perhaps you are right in that certain races are made, not born (as is the case for angels), but I would rather take a crappy solution than no solution at all.

It is not entirely impossible to rationalize it either, since lv is an abstract and metagame concept to begin with. For example, I could have it that my astral deva PC was banished to the mortal realm as his superiors felt that he was straying from his path and losing his way. Thus, he needed to relearn what it meant to be good.

He would be stripped of all his powers (in game terms, start out with 1 HD as per the SS progression).

Each time he does a good deed, he would regain some of his abilities. In game terms, this means he gains a lv (and unlocks some racial traits).

When he has served his penance, he would be restored to his former glory (in game terms, he will have reached lv20 and filled out the entire SS progression). :)

Beholder is a mess of a creature, and not much better as a PC.
Apart from the Stone, Charm, and Disintegrate beams, though, the rays aren't too powerful. Take off those 3 and it's pretty much a lame monster.

Well, it does have that antimagic eye ray. I think disintegrate and the equivalent of a more versatile AMF at-will can be very potent. Basically, the designers probably assumed that you will find some way to spam its 10 eye rays all day and ab(use) AMF for all it is work.

Not sure how to even begin toning it down.
sigma999
02-02-08, 09:20 PM Or play as a level 1 Angel "Putti".. heh...

A low level Beholder could begin with just a bite and 4 eye stalks.
As they level, more are gained. Beholder would advance in levels of Aberration but gain abilities with each HD they increase.
Some beginning eye stalk powers could be Ray of Fire/Frost/Lightning/Acid/whatever (SL0), Mage Hand (SL0), Daze (SL0) and some level 0 spell at will. These spells would upgrade whenever a Wizard would cast better, but 1 level behind (maybe 2)
The eye could begin with no ability but advance to Dispel Magic, Greater Dispel Magic, and then the cone of antimagic we all know and love.
Flight would be as Floating Disk at first but become true flight later, when spells Levitation and Fly are availible.
Bauglir
02-02-08, 11:42 PM You might look at the Movanic Deva from the Fiend Folio for Angel-lite. You're still an angel, but you're the weakest of the lot. It doesn't come with a LA, though, so you'll have to work that out with your DM. Somewhere from +6 to +8 looks about right (so ECL 12 to 14).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kwanzaabot 02-01-08, 05:49 PM	They seem like a weird combination, but yeah. I've been looking for versions of these creatures that could work as a player character. I've got Savage Species, and I quite like the Astral Deva in it, but i'd really like something a bit simpler. Like, Angel-Lite or something. Same goes for the Beholder. Something with a really minimal level adjustment. :D So yeah, if anyone could point me in the right direction, it'd be much appreciated. I'd prefer homebrew stuff, as my budget's a little tight at the moment, but if there's books for what I need, that'd be good too. :)
High Octane 02-01-08, 07:41 PM	Half-angel works as a playable race, with a pretty high +LA though. Theres always Aasimar, for the reeeeeally light angel. (Listed under Planetouched) LA of a mere +1. Both of theres are in the Monster manual. Can't help you on beholder. It was never meant to be a playable race.
runestar 02-01-08, 07:55 PM	You could try the LA+0 aasimar variant in PGTF, and take the celestial heritage line of feats in races of faerun (which give you a small number of SLAs and more importantly, wings to represent your celestial blood). You pretty much have the whole angel look nailed down, just use class lvs to determine what sort of abilities you want it to have. Cleric or paladin work well. Crusader is not bad either. Beholder was given an ECL of 24 in a previous issue of dragon, IIRC.
TheDragonmaster 02-01-08, 08:04 PM	Lords of Madness might help for lighter beholders (or rather, beholderkin)... you might want an extra look on the Spectator for a nonevil one...
EdrickTheGreat 02-01-08, 09:07 PM	I don't think Beholders were meant to be played...considering they're all driven by madness. As for angel like, try going Aasimar. You might wanna dumb down half celestial. Going Celestial bloodline for Unearthed Arcana.
The_Shaman 02-01-08, 10:33 PM	Ideally aasimars can qualify for the LA-less treatment in Player's guide to Faerun... I mean LA+1 is tolerable, but LA+0 is even better.
sigma999 02-01-08, 10:45 PM	With the LA+0 Assimar, there's no reason to play as the LA+1. For what, ya know? Light 1/day? More elemental resistances? Sheeeah. A LA+0 Aasimar with levels of Cleric, Favored Soul, or Warlock do nicely to emulate angels. It's easy to use equipment for wings (Wings of Flying. duh.) but make it so that the item grants constant Fly as the spell for higher price rather than X uses per day or minutes or whatever bull- limitation. If you mean a racial class, you're on your own. Angels, by purpose, are created powerful; it would be unthematic and silly to have a level 1 angel, but it's possible. Savage Species did it wrong. Beholder is a mess of a creature, and not much better as a PC. Apart from the Stone, Charm, and Disintegrate beams, though, the rays aren't too powerful. Take off those 3 and it's pretty much a lame monster. Not better than a Wizard with a quiver full of wands. Without the rays, it's just a floating ugly ball with a bite. If you reaaally want a PC Beholder, keep the Telekinesis but nerf it to Mage Hand until level 7, and same with the other effects. Make the eye beams no better than spells any Wizard could cast at the same level, and it's fine.
runestar 02-01-08, 10:57 PM	An aasimar cleric should be able to pass off as an angel. His spellcasting can replicate quite a lot of their racial abilities, and you can fight well too. If you mean a racial class, you're on your own. Angels, by purpose, are created powerful; it would be unthematic and silly to have a level 1 angel, but it's possible. Savage Species did it wrong. SS was designed to allow powerful races to be playable from 1st lv onwards. Perhaps you are right in that certain races are made, not born (as is the case for angels), but I would rather take a crappy solution than no solution at all. It is not entirely impossible to rationalize it either, since lv is an abstract and metagame concept to begin with. For example, I could have it that my astral deva PC was banished to the mortal realm as his superiors felt that he was straying from his path and losing his way. Thus, he needed to relearn what it meant to be good. He would be stripped of all his powers (in game terms, start out with 1 HD as per the SS progression). Each time he does a good deed, he would regain some of his abilities. In game terms, this means he gains a lv (and unlocks some racial traits). When he has served his penance, he would be restored to his former glory (in game terms, he will have reached lv20 and filled out the entire SS progression). :) Beholder is a mess of a creature, and not much better as a PC. Apart from the Stone, Charm, and Disintegrate beams, though, the rays aren't too powerful. Take off those 3 and it's pretty much a lame monster. Well, it does have that antimagic eye ray. I think disintegrate and the equivalent of a more versatile AMF at-will can be very potent. Basically, the designers probably assumed that you will find some way to spam its 10 eye rays all day and ab(use) AMF for all it is work. Not sure how to even begin toning it down.
sigma999 02-02-08, 09:20 PM	Or play as a level 1 Angel "Putti".. heh... A low level Beholder could begin with just a bite and 4 eye stalks. As they level, more are gained. Beholder would advance in levels of Aberration but gain abilities with each HD they increase. Some beginning eye stalk powers could be Ray of Fire/Frost/Lightning/Acid/whatever (SL0), Mage Hand (SL0), Daze (SL0) and some level 0 spell at will. These spells would upgrade whenever a Wizard would cast better, but 1 level behind (maybe 2) The eye could begin with no ability but advance to Dispel Magic, Greater Dispel Magic, and then the cone of antimagic we all know and love. Flight would be as Floating Disk at first but become true flight later, when spells Levitation and Fly are availible.
Bauglir 02-02-08, 11:42 PM	You might look at the Movanic Deva from the Fiend Folio for Angel-lite. You're still an angel, but you're the weakest of the lot. It doesn't come with a LA, though, so you'll have to work that out with your DM. Somewhere from +6 to +8 looks about right (so ECL 12 to 14).