Best ECL 3-5 monster race for a fighter/rogue [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best ECL 3-5 monster race for a fighter/rogue [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
OgreMonk
07-17-07, 08:17 AM I am in a unique campaign that starts in three weeks. We will be prison guards and have to play non-core races of around ECL 3-5. I am leaning toward the bugbear for a fighter/rogue combo. Any ideas for a better race?
Platstud
07-17-07, 09:04 AM Personally, I've always been a fan of Lizardfolk. Also, have a look at the Grimlock, it has decent physical ability modifiers and the Blindsense and Scent are cool features while the blindness might make for interesting roleplaying.
Empirate
07-17-07, 11:39 AM Troglodytes aren't bad (very good NA, plus stench ability, if your comrades-in-arms can handle that).
Also, to play a Dex-based finesse fighter/rogue, look into Shadar-Kai in Fiend Folio (ECL +4). Hide in Plain Sight, huge Hide bonus, +6 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Cha, EWP: Spiked Chain as a bonus feat, Sneak Attack and so on. Drawback: You need to up your Will save as far as possible...
Maugs from the same book are very very sturdy intelligent constructs with Large size (!) quick (but not fast) healing, great Str (like +10 or so), construct immunities and other nifty stuff like grafts and so on. Should be around ECL +5, iirc. Make fantastic fighter types.
Look into Half-Ogres (Savage Species) or Goliaths (Races of Destiny) for large size if Maug doesn't strike your fancy. That reach is nice for a fighter type (also for a rogue, makes flanking easier) and hard to come by!
RobbyPants
07-17-07, 12:49 PM I am in a unique campaign that starts in three weeks. We will be prison guards and have to play non-core races of around ECL 3-5. I am leaning toward the bugbear for a fighter/rogue combo. Any ideas for a better race?
Bugbear is a nice race for this (ECL 4, IIRC).

Do you have to play a race with a LA, or can you instead play a higher level fighter/rogue? If not, you might be better off with more class levels. I've played a fighter/rogue type orc in the past. The +4 Str is quite nice.

If you do have to play a LA race though, I would think that a bugbear is a good choice.
OgreMonk
07-17-07, 01:07 PM Yup, ECL 3-5 required before application of class levels.
Platstud
07-17-07, 01:09 PM Yup, ECL 3-5 required before application of class levels.

Then play the Grimlock! Come on, it'll be fun!!!!
RobbyPants
07-17-07, 01:11 PM Yup, ECL 3-5 required before application of class levels.
Thri-kreen has four arms. Mix that with multi-weapon fighting for four sneak attacks per round! Not too bad.
BowenSilverclaw1986
07-17-07, 02:19 PM Just some of the ones I personally like:

-Lizardfolk
-Hobgoblin
-Thri-Kreen
-Bugbear
-Maug
-Goliath
-Half-Giant
-Mineral Warrior template
-Feral template

Hope you come up with a cool character :)

Bowen
Moradin
07-17-07, 04:14 PM The Flind Gnoll from monster manual three comes to mind. Bonuses to strength, dexterity, and constitution (no penalties to any attributes, either), natural armor bonus, weapon familiarity with flindbar (one handed 2d4 weapon with 19-20 threat, not to mention bonuses to trip/disarm). Plus they just look pretty damn awesome. Total ECL of 4.
Razieliffied
07-18-07, 03:31 AM I would consider a feral mineral warrior poisondusk lizardfolk ranger if I ever found myself in this such possition. Sadly, I'm not really allowed to play anything with a LA over +1 that isn't a planetouched race.
Eater_Of_Souls
07-18-07, 03:45 AM Well this little bugger is still nr.1 for a rogue in my books and definetly not core, well regular MM doesn't even have ability score for squirrels...
I needed some conversion help for his one since my last version was too powerful as a rogue :devil:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=879618

That bugger has a tiny bow that makes 1d4-1 damage but sneak attacks normally, love half-broken class abilities :P
The_Shaman
07-18-07, 03:52 AM A smaller centaur, using the tauric creature type and a light horse (instead of a heavy horse, like the regular centaur does) might be a bargain with 3 Monstrous Humanoid levels and LA+2. Basically, just look at the difference between heavy and light horse, and apply it to the centaur.
Starlightpiper
07-18-07, 09:57 AM You might want to consider a pixie. You take a decent Strength hit (-4), but with Weapon Finesse to counteract it on attacks (or just your Greater Invisibility) and sneak attack to deal damage, you can be quite a vicious little creature.
Platstud
07-18-07, 10:10 AM You might want to consider a pixie. You take a decent Strength hit (-4), but with Weapon Finesse to counteract it on attacks (or just your Greater Invisibility) and sneak attack to deal damage, you can be quite a vicious little creature.

I was thinking of suggesting this, but I really think a Pixie does better as a straight-up rogue than a fighter/rogue.
sensestaker
07-18-07, 03:31 PM Anthro Cheetah from SS

+6 Str
+8 Dex
+4 Con
+4 Wis
+1 Nat Armor
Base Speed 40
2 hd + 2 la =ECL 4

Pow!
penchant
07-18-07, 04:52 PM Half Ogre + Half Dragon = LA +5
Str +14
Dex -2
Con +4
Int +0 (penalties negated!)
Wis
Chr +0 (penalties negated!)

+8 Nat AC
Large Size with wings

and your breathweapon.

While you don't have any bonues to rogue abilities, you are clearly looking at the thug archetype and sneak attack is all you really need. Open lock is for those who can't tear open the door with bare claws.

If you want a more sneaky type, then use an Underfolk Half fiend LA+4. The underfolk (races of destiny) is basically an underdark version of a human and get a humans bonus skill points and gets favored class any. It also gets natural camoflage, racial weapons (picks), darkvision and a few minor bennies. The half fiend gets beaucoup bennies including the stat bonues, the HD based SLA's, wings at medium size, HD based DR, HD based SR and better energy resistance than most actual demons get.
Orchomenos
07-19-07, 09:37 AM Perhaps a lycanthrope? Were-rat for sneaky things, or were-leopard to pounce and get 5 attacks that each deals sneak attack damage (if your target is flanked or can't see you).

Or Pixie? +4 LA, +8 DEX, DR 10/Cold Iron, Fly Spell, Spell Resistance, and Greater Invisibility always on!

EDIT: Oups, just saw that Starlightpiper beat me for the Pixie...
Disciple_of_Juiblex
07-19-07, 09:50 AM Anthro Cheetah from SS

+6 Str
+8 Dex
+4 Con
+4 Wis
+1 Nat Armor
Base Speed 40
2 hd + 2 la =ECL 4

Pow!

... And you dident suggest the baleen Whale?!?!

Large (i know size penalaty on stealth but balences with rogues for reach)
+8 str, +4 dex, +4 con, +4 wis, +9(!) NA, base speed 30 (and a few more skill points than the cheetah)
all for the low cost of 3HD ... plus just think about how cool it would be to sneak up on peaple as a Whale :D
Leonidus
07-19-07, 01:55 PM My recommendation would be the Varag. MM4, p168. ECL 5 (3hd+2la), +4 str, +4 dex, +2 con, -4 int, +3 nat armor, base speed 60ft., plus Spring Attack as a bonus feat.

Int sucks, but that's the only downside. Favored class Scout, which probably works better than rogue, but take as you will.
TheCarrionCrawler
07-19-07, 02:16 PM Bugbear is a nice race for this (ECL 4, IIRC).

Do you have to play a race with a LA, or can you instead play a higher level fighter/rogue? If not, you might be better off with more class levels. I've played a fighter/rogue type orc in the past. The +4 Str is quite nice.

If you do have to play a LA race though, I would think that a bugbear is a good choice.

This was my first thought when I read the title to the thread!

Half Ogre + Half Dragon = LA +5
Str +14
Dex -2
Con +4
Int +0 (penalties negated!)
Wis
Chr +0 (penalties negated!)

+8 Nat AC
Large Size with wings

and your breathweapon.

While you don't have any bonues to rogue abilities, you are clearly looking at the thug archetype and sneak attack is all you really need. Open lock is for those who can't tear open the door with bare claws.

Wow, I had never thought of this combo before...it's so....sooo...evil. Bravo! :cookie:

However, I would recommend something not yet mentioned. Dragon magazine had something called the Katane. It's basically a half-vampire. It was ECL 4 I believe. I played a straight Katane rogue in a game. The main baddy was DMPC dervish. Well, she managed to decapitate me. I made the DM roll percentage dice....he rolled low....the next 2-4 rounds (I can't remember) I arose as a full vamp. It was nice....anyway, that's my pic.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
OgreMonk 07-17-07, 08:17 AM	I am in a unique campaign that starts in three weeks. We will be prison guards and have to play non-core races of around ECL 3-5. I am leaning toward the bugbear for a fighter/rogue combo. Any ideas for a better race?
Platstud 07-17-07, 09:04 AM	Personally, I've always been a fan of Lizardfolk. Also, have a look at the Grimlock, it has decent physical ability modifiers and the Blindsense and Scent are cool features while the blindness might make for interesting roleplaying.
Empirate 07-17-07, 11:39 AM	Troglodytes aren't bad (very good NA, plus stench ability, if your comrades-in-arms can handle that). Also, to play a Dex-based finesse fighter/rogue, look into Shadar-Kai in Fiend Folio (ECL +4). Hide in Plain Sight, huge Hide bonus, +6 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Cha, EWP: Spiked Chain as a bonus feat, Sneak Attack and so on. Drawback: You need to up your Will save as far as possible... Maugs from the same book are very very sturdy intelligent constructs with Large size (!) quick (but not fast) healing, great Str (like +10 or so), construct immunities and other nifty stuff like grafts and so on. Should be around ECL +5, iirc. Make fantastic fighter types. Look into Half-Ogres (Savage Species) or Goliaths (Races of Destiny) for large size if Maug doesn't strike your fancy. That reach is nice for a fighter type (also for a rogue, makes flanking easier) and hard to come by!
RobbyPants 07-17-07, 12:49 PM	I am in a unique campaign that starts in three weeks. We will be prison guards and have to play non-core races of around ECL 3-5. I am leaning toward the bugbear for a fighter/rogue combo. Any ideas for a better race? Bugbear is a nice race for this (ECL 4, IIRC). Do you have to play a race with a LA, or can you instead play a higher level fighter/rogue? If not, you might be better off with more class levels. I've played a fighter/rogue type orc in the past. The +4 Str is quite nice. If you do have to play a LA race though, I would think that a bugbear is a good choice.
OgreMonk 07-17-07, 01:07 PM	Yup, ECL 3-5 required before application of class levels.
Platstud 07-17-07, 01:09 PM	Yup, ECL 3-5 required before application of class levels. Then play the Grimlock! Come on, it'll be fun!!!!
RobbyPants 07-17-07, 01:11 PM	Yup, ECL 3-5 required before application of class levels. Thri-kreen has four arms. Mix that with multi-weapon fighting for four sneak attacks per round! Not too bad.
BowenSilverclaw1986 07-17-07, 02:19 PM	Just some of the ones I personally like: -Lizardfolk -Hobgoblin -Thri-Kreen -Bugbear -Maug -Goliath -Half-Giant -Mineral Warrior template -Feral template Hope you come up with a cool character :) Bowen
Moradin 07-17-07, 04:14 PM	The Flind Gnoll from monster manual three comes to mind. Bonuses to strength, dexterity, and constitution (no penalties to any attributes, either), natural armor bonus, weapon familiarity with flindbar (one handed 2d4 weapon with 19-20 threat, not to mention bonuses to trip/disarm). Plus they just look pretty damn awesome. Total ECL of 4.
Razieliffied 07-18-07, 03:31 AM	I would consider a feral mineral warrior poisondusk lizardfolk ranger if I ever found myself in this such possition. Sadly, I'm not really allowed to play anything with a LA over +1 that isn't a planetouched race.
Eater_Of_Souls 07-18-07, 03:45 AM	Well this little bugger is still nr.1 for a rogue in my books and definetly not core, well regular MM doesn't even have ability score for squirrels... I needed some conversion help for his one since my last version was too powerful as a rogue :devil: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=879618 That bugger has a tiny bow that makes 1d4-1 damage but sneak attacks normally, love half-broken class abilities :P
The_Shaman 07-18-07, 03:52 AM	A smaller centaur, using the tauric creature type and a light horse (instead of a heavy horse, like the regular centaur does) might be a bargain with 3 Monstrous Humanoid levels and LA+2. Basically, just look at the difference between heavy and light horse, and apply it to the centaur.
Starlightpiper 07-18-07, 09:57 AM	You might want to consider a pixie. You take a decent Strength hit (-4), but with Weapon Finesse to counteract it on attacks (or just your Greater Invisibility) and sneak attack to deal damage, you can be quite a vicious little creature.
Platstud 07-18-07, 10:10 AM	You might want to consider a pixie. You take a decent Strength hit (-4), but with Weapon Finesse to counteract it on attacks (or just your Greater Invisibility) and sneak attack to deal damage, you can be quite a vicious little creature. I was thinking of suggesting this, but I really think a Pixie does better as a straight-up rogue than a fighter/rogue.
sensestaker 07-18-07, 03:31 PM	Anthro Cheetah from SS +6 Str +8 Dex +4 Con +4 Wis +1 Nat Armor Base Speed 40 2 hd + 2 la =ECL 4 Pow!
penchant 07-18-07, 04:52 PM	Half Ogre + Half Dragon = LA +5 Str +14 Dex -2 Con +4 Int +0 (penalties negated!) Wis Chr +0 (penalties negated!) +8 Nat AC Large Size with wings and your breathweapon. While you don't have any bonues to rogue abilities, you are clearly looking at the thug archetype and sneak attack is all you really need. Open lock is for those who can't tear open the door with bare claws. If you want a more sneaky type, then use an Underfolk Half fiend LA+4. The underfolk (races of destiny) is basically an underdark version of a human and get a humans bonus skill points and gets favored class any. It also gets natural camoflage, racial weapons (picks), darkvision and a few minor bennies. The half fiend gets beaucoup bennies including the stat bonues, the HD based SLA's, wings at medium size, HD based DR, HD based SR and better energy resistance than most actual demons get.
Orchomenos 07-19-07, 09:37 AM	Perhaps a lycanthrope? Were-rat for sneaky things, or were-leopard to pounce and get 5 attacks that each deals sneak attack damage (if your target is flanked or can't see you). Or Pixie? +4 LA, +8 DEX, DR 10/Cold Iron, Fly Spell, Spell Resistance, and Greater Invisibility always on! EDIT: Oups, just saw that Starlightpiper beat me for the Pixie...
Disciple_of_Juiblex 07-19-07, 09:50 AM	Anthro Cheetah from SS +6 Str +8 Dex +4 Con +4 Wis +1 Nat Armor Base Speed 40 2 hd + 2 la =ECL 4 Pow! ... And you dident suggest the baleen Whale?!?! Large (i know size penalaty on stealth but balences with rogues for reach) +8 str, +4 dex, +4 con, +4 wis, +9(!) NA, base speed 30 (and a few more skill points than the cheetah) all for the low cost of 3HD ... plus just think about how cool it would be to sneak up on peaple as a Whale :D
Leonidus 07-19-07, 01:55 PM	My recommendation would be the Varag. MM4, p168. ECL 5 (3hd+2la), +4 str, +4 dex, +2 con, -4 int, +3 nat armor, base speed 60ft., plus Spring Attack as a bonus feat. Int sucks, but that's the only downside. Favored class Scout, which probably works better than rogue, but take as you will.
TheCarrionCrawler 07-19-07, 02:16 PM	Bugbear is a nice race for this (ECL 4, IIRC). Do you have to play a race with a LA, or can you instead play a higher level fighter/rogue? If not, you might be better off with more class levels. I've played a fighter/rogue type orc in the past. The +4 Str is quite nice. If you do have to play a LA race though, I would think that a bugbear is a good choice. This was my first thought when I read the title to the thread! Half Ogre + Half Dragon = LA +5 Str +14 Dex -2 Con +4 Int +0 (penalties negated!) Wis Chr +0 (penalties negated!) +8 Nat AC Large Size with wings and your breathweapon. While you don't have any bonues to rogue abilities, you are clearly looking at the thug archetype and sneak attack is all you really need. Open lock is for those who can't tear open the door with bare claws. Wow, I had never thought of this combo before...it's so....sooo...evil. Bravo! :cookie: However, I would recommend something not yet mentioned. Dragon magazine had something called the Katane. It's basically a half-vampire. It was ECL 4 I believe. I played a straight Katane rogue in a game. The main baddy was DMPC dervish. Well, she managed to decapitate me. I made the DM roll percentage dice....he rolled low....the next 2-4 rounds (I can't remember) I arose as a full vamp. It was nice....anyway, that's my pic.