Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Apocolypse_77 07-06-07, 10:06 AM	i was wondering what everyone thought some of the best fighter races in D&D were, and which templates suited a melee character the best. Some that i notticed were the feral template, the halfdragon template, and Full orcs, goliaths and half ogres as base races. I am having a tough time deciding on which is best for a base race between those 3 listed above they all seem to have their own perks.
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0 07-06-07, 10:15 AM	human. You get an extra feat and much needed skill points.
Omega_Grey 07-06-07, 11:02 AM	Of the templates Feral probably gives you the most bang for your buck, and with a lower level adjustment then half-dragon. The downside, lack of intelligence means that skills are harder to come by and that you will have a hard time meeting some prereq's for some feats. As for the races that you listed that is a real tough question, since they are all basically the same concept just scaled for different levels of play. They all get a large bonus to strength and are well known to dish out the damage. The only real question is what LA are you going for. If you can manage a +3 LA then the Feral Half-Ogre is probably the best route, and just scale it down from there. Also, M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0 is right about humans, but that argument could be said for any class, and frankly the fighter doesnt really need extra on either of those, but then again they never, ever hurt to have.
Apocolypse_77 07-06-07, 12:38 PM	As for the races that you listed that is a real tough question, since they are all basically the same concept just scaled for different levels of play. They all get a large bonus to strength and are well known to dish out the damage. The only real question is what LA are you going for. If you can manage a +3 LA then the Feral Half-Ogre is probably the best route, and just scale it down from there. Thanks for the input Omega, but i have a quick 2 questions, first i may be wrong but aren't both feral, and half-ogre both +1 LA's? and secondly couldn't playing a large character have some serious drawbacks for adventuring into dungeons and buildings with small rooms, 5 foot hallways and 5 foot doors?
Noodles2375 07-06-07, 12:53 PM	i was wondering what everyone thought some of the best fighter races in D&D were, and which templates suited a melee character the best. Some that i notticed were the feral template, the halfdragon template, and Full orcs, goliaths and half ogres as base races. I am having a tough time deciding on which is best for a base race between those 3 listed above they all seem to have their own perks. 1. Goliath - LA isnt a big deal for fighters, plus this gives you a +4 to str, ability to use Goliath warhammer (sweet melee weapon) and the general goodness of powerful build. Esp. good if you want to play a grappler or fist-fighter. 2. Hobgoblin - again LA isn't a big deal for fighter, that +2 to dex and int lets you get extra skill pts and the agility to be great. I feel like they are often overlooked. They have a bunch of other neat racial stuff also. I find them exceedingly well suited for spiked chain nonsense. 3. Humans - nuff said :) Great at everything. 4. Dwarfies - make phenomenal tanks! Envision a dwarf with large shield, plate armor, high con, levels in Dwarf paragon class, and the improved toughness feat. You can make them nigh invincible!
Bob Loblaw 07-06-07, 01:05 PM	What do you want from your fighter? There are several different things to consider. I can see every race being great in melee, it just depends on what your fighter plans on doing. What feats and skills did you want to focus on? Do you see your fighter as mobile? A tank? Mounted? Man-at-Arms (master of many styles and weapons)? Each race will bring different things to these types.
RobbyPants 07-06-07, 01:21 PM	Full orcs are good (especially at low levels). Water orcs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#waterOrcs) are better (found in Unearthed Arcana.)
Thomar_of_Uointer 07-06-07, 08:57 PM	human. You get an extra feat and much needed skill points. I'll second that.
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0 07-06-07, 08:57 PM	Also, M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0 is right about humans, but that argument could be said for any class, and frankly the fighter doesnt really need extra on either of those, but then again they never, ever hurt to have. First, thankyou for actually taking the time to say my full name. I can never get people to say it. Now onto the post. You mentioned that the fighter "doesn't really need extra on either of those," And I believe you are correct that we are talking about skills and feats? On skills, you can never have to many feats. especially if you only get 2 points (before int adjustment) per lvl. Second, feats are great. Builds can be reached earlier, and requirements are met sooner. And if your HP is lacking, you can always take the Toughness feat.
Forgember 07-07-07, 02:03 AM	Dwarf and heres why... +2 con -2 cha (more hp and you don't need cha), Stability, No move penalty for medium/heavy armor/load, +2 Craft Weapons and Armor made of steel or stone, +2 saves vs Poison, +2 saves vs Spells, 60ft Darkvision, No level adjust, Fighter is favored class giving multiclass options, and last but not least your not an ugly arse Ogre, Goliath, Orc or Half Dragon.
The_Oracle 07-07-07, 02:37 AM	Well, humans have the feats and skill points, and dwarves are excellent, but a werebear might give you the power you need.
LokiOdinstorm 07-07-07, 04:47 AM	What do you want from your fighter? There are several different things to consider. I can see every race being great in melee, it just depends on what your fighter plans on doing. What feats and skills did you want to focus on? Do you see your fighter as mobile? A tank? Mounted? Man-at-Arms (master of many styles and weapons)? Each race will bring different things to these types. I'm in agreement with Bob here. What makes the best fighter race is impossible to determine without a more specific sort of statement on what sort of fighter you're talking about. Sure, there are generalizations you can make, such as: racial bonuses to physical ability scores are good. Bonuses to either initiating or resisting combat maneuvers (such as the goliath's powerful build, or a dwarves natural stability to help defend against trips) is good, and all of that, but it really comes down to the niche you envision for your fighter. Different racial options are preferred for, just to name a few examples. 1) Heavily Armored Defensive Tanks (generally sword and board stylists relying on high con and the ability to take a hit) 2) Damage Oriented Two Handed Weapon Stylists (generally prone to charging their targets and making liberal use of the power attack feat, firmly believing the best defense is an overwhelming offense) and 3) Agile, Mobile, Skirmishers (often two weapon stylists, weapon finesse characters, and those who make LIBERAL use of Expertise. Such characters believe that it doesn't matter if they hit light -- if you can't touch them while they whittle you down to nothing) And that's just a small sample of the styles avaialble to a fighter. There's also Reach Fighters, Grapplers, and countless other types of playstyles the basic fighter can enjoy with the proper selection of feats. Each one is enhanced by entirely different types of racial abilities. A goliath makes a far more capable damage oriented two handed weapon stylist than he does a mobile skirmisher. Dwarves will always make better defensive tanks than skirmishers, and elves are the reverse. So what makes the best fighter race? The one that most benefits the WAY you want to fight ;)
Muglock 07-07-07, 06:44 AM	Heh, I don't know, the best race? I like the whole Ogrillon thing, I just think Orcs alone are the best Fighter Race in the first place, but hey, I mean, Half-Orc, Half-Ogre... Doesn't get much better with raw power for a fighter. I mean, mechanically, like, what, +8 strength, +6 constitution? Horrible int and charisma but you said FIGHTER, and LA's dont matter as long as you can kick the crap out of your enemies. Plus you get like, 3 extra feats to, plus a feat for being level 1, just having a character, and your extra feat for being a fighter... Youll become a feat monster, basically... Especially as an Ogrillon with the Natural Armor and ability to wield like, as a large creature, a medium sized greatsword in one hand with a tower shield in the other, or hell, the Full Blade in one hand with the proficiency. I dunno, Ogrillons, just... Seem insane for me and perfect fighters, they have so many options as the insane damage dealer you throw into the room and just busts through everything, the insane fortitude, crazy defense, ability to storm through everything, etc. If they have you know, the intelligence with them... Like assuming your character was bred as like, a soldier or this juggernaut for war or something, because you'll be stupid as hell... But with a great wizard or something, I'm sure you can be controlled... Only as long as your fed and paid or something... Eh, it can work. Ogrillons for me.
gellor 07-07-07, 01:13 PM	I always liked neaderthals.
Phelix_the_Warrior 07-07-07, 06:35 PM	Powergaming wise? I guess Orc is what I would say, but im more style than powergaming personally I like the idea of a Human Fighter because they have no redeeming qualities (lore wise they are average) yet they accomplish so much but thats just my 2 cents, I honestly like Knights more "YOU! YOUR MINE!"
Argaud 07-07-07, 07:37 PM	Not humans. Humans get an extra feat (just what the fighter has to spare) and an extra skill point/level, but the fighter does not have a good skill list. Core non-LA dwarves are probably the best race. Extra hp, stability, an exotic weapon for free (the waraxe is not great, but it is free). The drawbacks of the dwarves are irrelevant for most fighters, who don't need cha and will be move 20 anyway due to heavy armor. Going out of core warforged make very good fighter. Probably the best starting fighter using adamantine body for awesome AC. Goliaths are fine fighters for LA+1, so is anything with the Mineral Warrior template. At LA+2 you have half-ogres, because larger is better is true for meleers :D
Silverthumb128 07-07-07, 07:50 PM	Not humans. Humans get an extra feat (just what the fighter has to spare) and an extra skill point/level, but the fighter does not have a good skill list. You can drop the extra feat on Skill Knowledge(Unearthed Arcana) to get any one skill of your choice on your class-skill list, then use your extra Skill Points on it. Though, I'm preferring Warforged. Not having to spend money on armor is nice(especially early on, when 1.5k gold on Full-Plate can be more easily spent somewhere else), and the Warforged components are pretty cool. In addition, and this is a big one, since Craft is a class-skill, you can be your own medic after combat's over. Warforged's high Constitution helps make that possible, as you will need time to repair yourself, and surviving does help. Immunities from type are great(nothing uber, IMO, but still handy), too. Back-up Slam attacks, between the Battlefist & some of the supplemental feats that have been published, if you don't want to focus solely on your fists, they're still a viable option to back-up, in case your regular weapons get Disarmed/Sundered.
Alacard_Medri 07-08-07, 10:00 AM	What would be good about a drow fighter? what would be some good feats and skills for a drow fighter? I eventually want to give him a spider mount.
Zekarra 07-08-07, 10:26 AM	What about Stonechild from RoS? +4 LA with 2 HD making it a +6 LA overall. +8 Str, +8 Con, +2 Int, -2 Cha, Darkvision, Blind-Fight as a bonus feat, NA +4, Immunity to acid and poison, magic stone 3/day, medium, and base speed 30. Got Str and Con with Int and other cool stuff. Earth genasi from FRCS, +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Wis, -2 Cha, +1 LA and Pass without trace, Darkvision. Would make great +1LA fighter. Then you could add templates.:D BTW where is the Feral Template located.
SunTzuWarmaster 07-08-07, 11:05 AM	Drow fighters have a number of advantages, for instance: they get to use 2 scimitars (better than one, right?) dark, inescapable past (that's worth at least 10 points right there!) Light Blindness (get -2 to hit almost always!) High LA (show it off to your friends!) +2 Int/Cha (great for the int/cha using fighters!) Favored Class (wizard or cleric) - for those fighters with a 2 level dip in wizard! really, what more could you want from a drow fighter? They just eminate waves of goodness! On topic: +0 LA Human (feats/skills) Dwarf (movement, other abilities, con) Elf (for the cowardly "I'll hit it with arrows from my treehouse" strategy) +1 LA Feral - Fast healing is never bad Goliath - being big is usually good for a fighter Mineral Warrior - Darkvision, DR8/adamantine, +3 NA, +2str, +4con, -2int/wis/cha, burrow speed, Con to atk/dmg 1x/day http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e +2 LA, good choices are as follows Feral Mineral Warrior Feral Goliath Goliath Mineral Warrior
jaelis 07-08-07, 11:48 AM	I think wood elves are probably the best LA +0 race I've seen, for a straightup beater approach. The Con penalty isn't much fun, but the dex bonus can easily make up for it (you can make use of a 16 dex in mithral full plate). And Str bonuses are always good.
Silverthumb128 07-08-07, 02:34 PM	Elf (for the cowardly "I'll hit it with arrows from my treehouse" strategy) I don't really even think Sniping works that well for a Fighter, though. I mean, if you're going to snipe, you'll need to avoid being seen/followed up a tree, which Fighters just aren't that good at. Ranger, that's the sniping bee's knees. Mineral Warrior - Darkvision, DR8/adamantine, +3 NA, +2str, +4con, -2int/wis/cha, burrow speed, Con to atk/dmg 1x/day Warforged Mineral Warrior = Dwarfforged!
DwarfPcfan 07-08-07, 04:30 PM	Dwarves are the best fighter race period. Everything about them makes them cool fighters. First and more important from a role-playing perspective. Second there stats allow awesome fighter builds (I personnally have a weakness for the shield mastery tree) and third, you're a dwarf!:cool: That said my other good fighter races are: -Human (always an optimal choice for any build) -Neandertal for power exotic mastery (their bonuses work magic for exotic weapons if you use weapons they get bonuses with) -Orc (yes +4 to strenght says all) -Wood Elf (excellent twF, Archer builds etc) That's my :twocents: ...
angryscrub 07-08-07, 05:22 PM	the 1st level dwarven fighter racial substitution level from RoS is rather nice too.
Empirate 07-09-07, 10:40 AM	No love for the Maugs? Aren't they just awesome? Superb Str, no Con to worry about (one more high roll to put into secondary usefulness), good HP nonetheless from Construct size bonus, NA, quick healing, LARGE, good weapon and graft selection, Construct immunities... imagine a warrior made of stone, with a stone-spitting swivel gun on his shoulder! Coolness! The +2 LA is OK, as are the two racial HD, which don't matter so much to a fighter anyway.
Demoyn 07-09-07, 03:41 PM	First of all, if you're truly looking for a GOOD character, stick to the basic races (or Monster Manual variants of the base races). Why? Because level adjustments absolutely KILL good character concepts. Rogues are really the only base class that can get away with a level adjustment without a severe penalty. The absolute best races for fighters are human, half-orc, and dwarf, depending on your concept. If you want to be a cork or tank, choose dwarf. If you want to deal damage above and beyond, choose the half-orc. If you want to have multiple purposes, or be a supreme tactician (such as spiked chain trip fighter), choose the human. Anything else would be uncivilized (pun intended).
riftdragon 07-09-07, 03:51 PM	I personally prefer a golith with the massive feat that i found in the quintessential fighter 2, this feat raises your size up one, making you character effectively huge in size.
TeenageHeat 07-09-07, 07:44 PM	Dwarves are the best fighter, i know it's been said before but they are the only ones who can go toe to toe with the infamous and deadly spiked chain fighter build without having to use a spiked chain themselves. also, with that awesome RoS sub level, at first level, you can have a dwarf fighter with 22 AC (full plate, heavy steel or wooden shield, and since one of the feats is eaten by Axe Focus, Combat Expertise) who can still dish out a good 1d10 of damage a round. i just love the idea of turtling. STORY TIME! (proving how insanely awesome dwarf fighters are and why they're my fave class and race combination besides the elf ranger =]) ok about two to three weeks ago, a normal session of DnD starts with my group. we're all level 4, i happen to be a LG dwarf fighter, my friend is a CG elf ranger3/scout1 (he was going for that Swift Hunter build), and our other pal is a LN Raptoran Cleric.(go figure, i thought a NG Human Cleric Of Pelor fit best but what can you do?) well we come across our mission, (we're all mercenaries assigned to the same quest) which is singlehandedly stop this armada of orcs and goblinoids from taking the shore near this town. basically to make a long story short, while the elf ranger stayed atop a cliff and sprayed at orcs and bugbears, and the raptoran glided around until he was killed, i myself was completely surrounded by 2 bugbears, 2 hobgoblins, a 5th level Hobgoblin fighter and 2 Forest Trolls. i kept my combat expertise up the whole fight, slowly swiping away the weaker ones, and when it came down to the last CR 5's, i began continually tripping them and full power attacking them on the floor (the hobgoblin fighter went down one hit , when i tripped him and then crit him with my +1 thundering, flaming dwarven waraxe on a full power attack :D). long story short again, the cleric died, the elf rnager had his guts hanging out and was at 3 hp, and me, having to deal with nasty poison from those forest trolls, survived with 1 CON!!! i got the crap kicked out of me, but it still doesn't stop the fact that one level 4 dwarf fighter was able to take on 3 CR 5's, 2 CR 2's, and 2 CR 1's in single combat (me and the elf had a killing contest during the fight, he wins because he readies an action to shoot as soon as the troll goes to get up from being tripped and he kills him. the score was 11-10)
TeenageHeat 07-09-07, 07:45 PM	oh and our DM isn't a fool either, i was just actually that damn good.
sirjimbob 07-09-07, 09:21 PM	LA 0 humans dwarfs LA +1 Bugbear +4 str,+2 dex con,-2 cha, +3 nat ac, 3 HD, +4 MS LA +2 Half ogre why when full ogre is the same nets more +4 str +2 con with add -2 to int wis, 1 more nat ac, more hp LA +3 I wouldn't go higher than that. but for fun LA +4 hill gaints why when you got stone gaints that the same LA +5 Trolls are fun almost worth the LA just on Regn 5 and the +12 str and con +4 dex who cares about -4 int & cha, -2 wis
angryscrub 07-09-07, 09:31 PM	oh, i forgot, anthropomorphic baleen whale. as written, retarded good as a fighter.
Aragorn_Blackwood 07-31-07, 10:09 AM	To me, most atractive is draconic template which gives you +2 str, +2 con, +2 cha, +1 natural AC, Darkvision 60 ft, lowlight vision , +4 saves vs paralyze and magic sleap, +2 on intimidate and spot shecks and all this for just +1 lvl adjusment... this is atractive because if you put that to human race you also get 1 gonus feat and 4 skill points at first level and 1 extra skill point every level... oh I forgot to mention natural attack you get, it's not much but it helps in some situations ( claws 1d3 dmg for medium - I know same as hit with gauntlet but, hey rest of bonuses are just right) This template is good for any fighter, but it is apsolutly best for paladin. Cha,str, con, all abilities that makes paladin stronger and enhances his abilities...
skogenlives 07-31-07, 12:39 PM	Aragorn_Blackwood -> I like that template. Where is it from?
TheDarkDragonLord 07-31-07, 11:32 PM	Beware, for I have mightyness... Well, you could, essentially have any base class, for fun, lets pick.... Earth genasi.... +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Wis, -2 Cha Add the Half-Dragon template... +8 Str, +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Cha + 4 Natural AC and add one (or four) iron golem limbs (effectively half Iron golem, despite retaining their mind.) +12 Str, -2 Dex, +6 Con, -6 Int, -6 Wis, +0 Cha + 11 Natural AC. So, if your base stats as a Earth Genasi Fighter are... 20 Str, 12 Dex, 20 Con, 14 Int, 16 Wis, 10 Cha Then, adding half dragon... 28 Str, 12 Dex, 22 Con, 16 Int, 16 Wis, 10 Cha then, the iron golem limbs... 40 Str, 10 Dex, 28 Con, 10 Int, 10 Wis, 10 Cha. 25 Natural AC Of course, this has a level adjustment of +6, but, it looks like it is worth it to me. Plus the breathweapon... and, if you're a bronze or blue half dragon, it removes your weakness to electricty (Which slows you, if you are struck by it as a half-iron golem). a +15 on your attack rolls. and jump checks. you can carry like four metric tons and still have a medium load. +9 on your Fortitude save +9 HP per level Sure, you have no reflex save, but, who needs it? or, will save...but, meh. I'm sure as a fighter, you won't need to worry about those. And then spend your money on a big damn weapon. Just, sounds a little overpowered, eh?
natzero 08-01-07, 01:39 PM	ok this will sound weird but i think kobolds make great fighters darkvision 60 ft +1 nat armor +1 for size bonus arctic kobolds racials are -2 str, +2 dex, -2 con, -2 wis take levels 1,2,4 kobold fight variant and you get the str and con back. leaving you with +2 dex, -2 wis also you could take earth kobold -2 str, -2 con once again the variant gets those back. you get spear bonuses and dodge at lvl 1. granted you lose 2 feats from str and con bonus. take 2 flaws and grab the 2 feats. also kobold endurance gives +4 to str and con based ability checks and can sleep in armor. that + earth kobolds +4 to resist trip and bullrush can make them strong i believe thats a +8 with endurance. also dragonwrought kobold feat makes them immune to sleep and paralysis. played right with the right feats, imo combat reflexes tree for just crazy AoO's all the time, a kobold can be one hell of a fighter. also with dragonwrought kobold you are a fullblood dragon so you can take dragon feats. can you say awaken frightful pressence ? ;p
Xavorin 08-02-07, 07:00 PM	Aragorn_Blackwood -> I like that template. Where is it from? Yeah, I'd like to know too. It sounds like a winner.