Best Grappling Race [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Grappling Race [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Half1337Dragons
02-07-07, 02:55 PM I'm been thinking of making a grappling character recently, but cant figure out a good race to have it as.

*I plan on actually playing the character as if I was in its shoes, so please don't just say certain races just cause it will make it awesome in combat.

Basically just tell me about previous characters or characters you thought up and I may want to test it out or exchange out things to make it more of my liking.
obrysii
02-07-07, 03:07 PM Goliaths.
Half1337Dragons
02-07-07, 03:15 PM Goliaths.

What book is the Goliaths in?
Thomar_of_Uointer
02-07-07, 03:19 PM What book is the Goliaths in?

Races of Stone.

I would also recommend half-giant (Expanded Psionics Handbook), they're very mean and good for the same reasons. You could also try a troll, Large and ridiculously strong.
Krusk
02-07-07, 04:07 PM humans work decently.

Level 1 fighter
Improved grapple
improved unarmed
deflect arrows

You are very set for the first few levels.
Half1337Dragons
02-07-07, 04:39 PM I was thinking if I want to have a grappling class, maybe going weak levels from half monsters would be good. Half-Celestials got something going with them, maybe a Half-Fiend as well?
gino
02-07-07, 04:45 PM Why? Feral Anthropomorphic Octopus or Squid, preferably enlarged, I would say.
Something like that (http://dreamcatcher.wizards.com/mini.aspx?name=Octorilla)!

Sorry, I couldn't resist. :P

cheers,
Gino
Thubby
02-07-07, 05:58 PM 1/2 giant or ogre with permanent enlarge person. can grapple up to gargantuin creatures.
not to mention you can play anything from huge evil tyrant, to gentile giant.
1/2 celestials/fiends have magic unarmed attacks, which helps, though magic spiked gauntlets do the same.
Crimson_Concerto
02-07-07, 06:09 PM Hrm, well if you want to keep LA low, then Goliaths and Half-Giants are best, because of Powerful Build. If you want no LA, any one with a STR bonus and medium size will work okay.

However, if you're okay with large ECLS, grappling usually works better with higher-ECL races, such as Centaurs or Minotaurs.

On a side note, the classes you should be looking at are Barbarian and Psychic Warrior, if you're not trying to use polymorph combat.
The_Shaman
02-07-07, 06:36 PM For some reason, I always imagined dwarves as dangerous grapplers, but afaik the stability does not apply directly to grappling. The strength bonus could make orcs or even wood elves fairly competent, too.

AFAIK Races of Faerun had the Jotunbrud regional feat, which was a bit like powerful build for humans. Well, my natural choice would probably be a half-dragon goliath, both for the strength and the natural weapons, but maybe it's just me ;)
Melpomene
02-07-07, 07:03 PM Gnome. ...With a warmech from S&S's Dragonmech.
enygmatic_me
02-07-07, 07:09 PM I would have to go with Goliath or Half-Giant with a build toward the Reaping Mauler PrC. You might want to take Improved Unarmed Strike and Superior Unarmed Strike feats as well to get the unarmed damage up.
obrysii
02-07-07, 10:01 PM Half-Ogre, being Large-sized, would also work well.
NecroticBanana
02-07-07, 10:15 PM how bout a mind flayer with levels of body tamer and reaping mauler?
Jaxgaret
02-07-07, 11:21 PM I would have to go with Goliath or Half-Giant with a build toward the Reaping Mauler PrC. You might want to take Improved Unarmed Strike and Superior Unarmed Strike feats as well to get the unarmed damage up.

Seconded.
PhaedrusXY
02-07-07, 11:26 PM Goliath psiwarrior. With a +4 racial Str bonus, Powerful Build, and an overchanneled Expansion, you can count as a gargantuan creature, letting you grapple creatures of any size. You could also use full base attack classes and Warmind instead, to maintain a higher base attack bonus, but you'll take longer to become really good at grappling.
The_Shaman
02-08-07, 10:01 AM How would that work with a psionic fist, btw? You've got the damage, and although you're a tad poorer in feats I guess your PPs should be more than sufficient.

Also... Works best if psionic fist/fist of zuoken stacks for the flurry. Psionic Lion's charge + greater flurry, anyone :P ?

Edit: Compared to goliaths, half-giants iirc have slightly less strength, so that may be a bit of a disadvantage. Also, their racial power - stomp - can be somewhat decent but isn't directly useful for a grapple. Now, if you could manifest it as a move action... As it is, the races are imo about equal, perhaps with goliath having a minimal edge.
Thubby
02-08-07, 03:25 PM ignore thubby
The_Shaman
02-08-07, 04:55 PM N.P.
Half1337Dragons
02-08-07, 10:02 PM you got all these great builds and I threw out the half-fiends for playable characters for a reason. Don't forget about the point of this...How do you play a Large (obviously) Half-Ogre when you will need to get him into local towns.

IDK how you guys deal with super powerful guys, but its really hard to play something that most towns which are occupied by humans to allow such a powerful thing into their town because of fear of what it can do. When I play in a game, not all players can do the same thing, I place in the most realistic problems that would come from being different. Thats all I can say about that.

Second, what about these great builds. Of course they're great, but how bout the side effects? How bout the LVL Mods? All things have weakness to counter the strengths.
Generic Poster
02-08-07, 10:32 PM you got all these great builds and I threw out the half-fiends for playable characters for a reason. Don't forget about the point of this...How do you play a Large (obviously) Half-Ogre when you will need to get him into local towns.

IDK how you guys deal with super powerful guys, but its really hard to play something that most towns which are occupied by humans to allow such a powerful thing into their town because of fear of what it can do. When I play in a game, not all players can do the same thing, I place in the most realistic problems that would come from being different. Thats all I can say about that.

Second, what about these great builds. Of course they're great, but how bout the side effects? How bout the LVL Mods? All things have weakness to counter the strengths.

Well, let's say you go with a Goliath, for example. You will still be medium size, but gain combat bonuses for things such as grapple as though you were large. You would have a +1 LA, which is a downsides go isn't too horrible. If your in a game where such a race wouldn't be allowed in town, you can always get a hat of disguise and try to pass yourself off as another race. maybe you can go as a half-orc or a particularly strong human.
Regular_K
02-08-07, 11:01 PM Basically, I'm going to have to say Mindflayers, or the Tarrasque.
Maraxus
02-08-07, 11:14 PM Goliat offers +5 Grapple for 1 LA, Half Ogre offers +6 for 2. - The diffrence is 1 BAB, so they are basicly en par, concerning only the total grapple mod.

However, whatever it is, you can improve it with the half Dragon: +8 Strength means another +4 grapple mod at only +3 LA.

... I admit, however, that a Half Ogre Half Dragon has a clear problem of lacking HD. Sure, your Strength will be 30+, Natural armor of +8 but the first fireball that get's you will likely get you dead... Maybe if the campaign is at Level 11 or more.
Half Dragon Half Ogre, Barbarien 1, Psi-Warrior 5, HP probably around 12+5d8+6*7 = 80. Allready a bit more then the wizard with something like 10d4+40 - but not much. If you start combat with an argumented Vigor and then expand, it should work.
ZolDarklock
02-09-07, 01:12 AM Thri-Kreen

check on these boards for the Predator Hunter PrC
Zumarai
02-09-07, 09:11 AM Human with the Half-Minotaur template.
LittleCarp04
02-26-07, 03:35 PM Goliath

Reasons being, well firstly Goliaths are fun haha, alot of RP options, then you have Bear warrior, the + to Str makes grappling easy as pie, and the Improved grab ability of the Black bear and Dire bear make it fun. And for kicks take Vow of Poverty. Since in bear form none of your equipment works in bear form, and you now have an extra + 15AC from your abilities, and the big thing, Freedom of Movement at lvl 14, basically making you impossible to grapple. I mean with Bear Form and Goliath you can have a + 24 STR (4 from Goliath and 20 from Dire Bear form), and that + Improved Grab + Powerful Build (which while in Dire Bear form allows you be treated as Huge (i think? need help to be sure on this.
Krusk
02-26-07, 07:04 PM you dont get any racial abilities in bear form, as far as i can tell. Meaning the racial bonus to str isnt there. Powerful build isnt there. So its not as amazing as you think. If your doing bear warrior str becomes a dump stat until.
LittleCarp04
02-26-07, 07:50 PM The description for Powerful build says it stacks with things that change your size, and under Bear Form, it specifically says your stats are not replaced by the bears stats, simply your rage/frenzy bonus is replaced by the bear strength bonus so i would say that the + to str from Goliath would definately stack.
Finfreeze
02-26-07, 08:01 PM What about Anthropomorphic Baleen Whales? They get +8 to strength, large size, a natural weapon, 3 HD with no LA, and fighter BAB growth for their hit dice.

So, uh, Half-Dragon Feral Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale or just Anthro Baleen Whale Psychic Warrior?
Krusk
02-26-07, 11:17 PM The description for Powerful build says it stacks with things that change your size, and under Bear Form, it specifically says your stats are not replaced by the bears stats, simply your rage/frenzy bonus is replaced by the bear strength bonus so i would say that the + to str from Goliath would definately stack.

Sweet. Sounds good. Didn't read up on bear form and assumed it was simply *as polymorph
ldcnuke
02-27-07, 02:35 PM Human with good strength score. If fighter, then you can take 3 feats. A character I am currently playing took Combat Expertise, Improved Unarmed, and Improved Grapple at first level. He went through a CR 1 dungeon crawl alone and lived to tell the tale! :D
zook1shoe666
02-27-07, 02:56 PM check out the Dvanti from the Dragon Compendium vol. 1.

a race with a single soul and two bodies, +1 LA. the most uber PC monk race ever created!!! VoP makes them scarier!!
JarionSilverblades
02-27-07, 03:22 PM With out a doubt Goliaths from Races of Stone are a great choice.
obrysii
02-27-07, 05:08 PM I would have to go with Goliath or Half-Giant with a build toward the Reaping Mauler PrC. You might want to take Improved Unarmed Strike and Superior Unarmed Strike feats as well to get the unarmed damage up.

Then take Improved Natural Attack to bump your Unarmed Strike up a size category.
zook1shoe666
02-27-07, 10:23 PM the Dvanti gets UGLY... when your opponent has to make 2 different grapple checks or be grappled, and the two bodies can help each other out. +1 LA is very minor
Kn1ves
02-27-07, 11:39 PM I played a Tibbit (Dragon Compendium) Rogue7/Reaping Mauler2 for a bit. He rocked house with his sneak attack and the Knife Fighter feat from Faerune Players Handbook. Plus a couple magic items to increase his strength. Remember once you have someone pinned they don't get their Dex bonus to armor.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Half1337Dragons 02-07-07, 02:55 PM	I'm been thinking of making a grappling character recently, but cant figure out a good race to have it as. *I plan on actually playing the character as if I was in its shoes, so please don't just say certain races just cause it will make it awesome in combat. Basically just tell me about previous characters or characters you thought up and I may want to test it out or exchange out things to make it more of my liking.
obrysii 02-07-07, 03:07 PM	Goliaths.
Half1337Dragons 02-07-07, 03:15 PM	Goliaths. What book is the Goliaths in?
Thomar_of_Uointer 02-07-07, 03:19 PM	What book is the Goliaths in? Races of Stone. I would also recommend half-giant (Expanded Psionics Handbook), they're very mean and good for the same reasons. You could also try a troll, Large and ridiculously strong.
Krusk 02-07-07, 04:07 PM	humans work decently. Level 1 fighter Improved grapple improved unarmed deflect arrows You are very set for the first few levels.
Half1337Dragons 02-07-07, 04:39 PM	I was thinking if I want to have a grappling class, maybe going weak levels from half monsters would be good. Half-Celestials got something going with them, maybe a Half-Fiend as well?
gino 02-07-07, 04:45 PM	Why? Feral Anthropomorphic Octopus or Squid, preferably enlarged, I would say. Something like that (http://dreamcatcher.wizards.com/mini.aspx?name=Octorilla)! Sorry, I couldn't resist. :P cheers, Gino
Thubby 02-07-07, 05:58 PM	1/2 giant or ogre with permanent enlarge person. can grapple up to gargantuin creatures. not to mention you can play anything from huge evil tyrant, to gentile giant. 1/2 celestials/fiends have magic unarmed attacks, which helps, though magic spiked gauntlets do the same.
Crimson_Concerto 02-07-07, 06:09 PM	Hrm, well if you want to keep LA low, then Goliaths and Half-Giants are best, because of Powerful Build. If you want no LA, any one with a STR bonus and medium size will work okay. However, if you're okay with large ECLS, grappling usually works better with higher-ECL races, such as Centaurs or Minotaurs. On a side note, the classes you should be looking at are Barbarian and Psychic Warrior, if you're not trying to use polymorph combat.
The_Shaman 02-07-07, 06:36 PM	For some reason, I always imagined dwarves as dangerous grapplers, but afaik the stability does not apply directly to grappling. The strength bonus could make orcs or even wood elves fairly competent, too. AFAIK Races of Faerun had the Jotunbrud regional feat, which was a bit like powerful build for humans. Well, my natural choice would probably be a half-dragon goliath, both for the strength and the natural weapons, but maybe it's just me ;)
Melpomene 02-07-07, 07:03 PM	Gnome. ...With a warmech from S&S's Dragonmech.
enygmatic_me 02-07-07, 07:09 PM	I would have to go with Goliath or Half-Giant with a build toward the Reaping Mauler PrC. You might want to take Improved Unarmed Strike and Superior Unarmed Strike feats as well to get the unarmed damage up.
obrysii 02-07-07, 10:01 PM	Half-Ogre, being Large-sized, would also work well.
NecroticBanana 02-07-07, 10:15 PM	how bout a mind flayer with levels of body tamer and reaping mauler?
Jaxgaret 02-07-07, 11:21 PM	I would have to go with Goliath or Half-Giant with a build toward the Reaping Mauler PrC. You might want to take Improved Unarmed Strike and Superior Unarmed Strike feats as well to get the unarmed damage up. Seconded.
PhaedrusXY 02-07-07, 11:26 PM	Goliath psiwarrior. With a +4 racial Str bonus, Powerful Build, and an overchanneled Expansion, you can count as a gargantuan creature, letting you grapple creatures of any size. You could also use full base attack classes and Warmind instead, to maintain a higher base attack bonus, but you'll take longer to become really good at grappling.
The_Shaman 02-08-07, 10:01 AM	How would that work with a psionic fist, btw? You've got the damage, and although you're a tad poorer in feats I guess your PPs should be more than sufficient. Also... Works best if psionic fist/fist of zuoken stacks for the flurry. Psionic Lion's charge + greater flurry, anyone :P ? Edit: Compared to goliaths, half-giants iirc have slightly less strength, so that may be a bit of a disadvantage. Also, their racial power - stomp - can be somewhat decent but isn't directly useful for a grapple. Now, if you could manifest it as a move action... As it is, the races are imo about equal, perhaps with goliath having a minimal edge.
Thubby 02-08-07, 03:25 PM	ignore thubby
The_Shaman 02-08-07, 04:55 PM	N.P.
Half1337Dragons 02-08-07, 10:02 PM	you got all these great builds and I threw out the half-fiends for playable characters for a reason. Don't forget about the point of this...How do you play a Large (obviously) Half-Ogre when you will need to get him into local towns. IDK how you guys deal with super powerful guys, but its really hard to play something that most towns which are occupied by humans to allow such a powerful thing into their town because of fear of what it can do. When I play in a game, not all players can do the same thing, I place in the most realistic problems that would come from being different. Thats all I can say about that. Second, what about these great builds. Of course they're great, but how bout the side effects? How bout the LVL Mods? All things have weakness to counter the strengths.
Generic Poster 02-08-07, 10:32 PM	you got all these great builds and I threw out the half-fiends for playable characters for a reason. Don't forget about the point of this...How do you play a Large (obviously) Half-Ogre when you will need to get him into local towns. IDK how you guys deal with super powerful guys, but its really hard to play something that most towns which are occupied by humans to allow such a powerful thing into their town because of fear of what it can do. When I play in a game, not all players can do the same thing, I place in the most realistic problems that would come from being different. Thats all I can say about that. Second, what about these great builds. Of course they're great, but how bout the side effects? How bout the LVL Mods? All things have weakness to counter the strengths. Well, let's say you go with a Goliath, for example. You will still be medium size, but gain combat bonuses for things such as grapple as though you were large. You would have a +1 LA, which is a downsides go isn't too horrible. If your in a game where such a race wouldn't be allowed in town, you can always get a hat of disguise and try to pass yourself off as another race. maybe you can go as a half-orc or a particularly strong human.
Regular_K 02-08-07, 11:01 PM	Basically, I'm going to have to say Mindflayers, or the Tarrasque.
Maraxus 02-08-07, 11:14 PM	Goliat offers +5 Grapple for 1 LA, Half Ogre offers +6 for 2. - The diffrence is 1 BAB, so they are basicly en par, concerning only the total grapple mod. However, whatever it is, you can improve it with the half Dragon: +8 Strength means another +4 grapple mod at only +3 LA. ... I admit, however, that a Half Ogre Half Dragon has a clear problem of lacking HD. Sure, your Strength will be 30+, Natural armor of +8 but the first fireball that get's you will likely get you dead... Maybe if the campaign is at Level 11 or more. Half Dragon Half Ogre, Barbarien 1, Psi-Warrior 5, HP probably around 12+5d8+6*7 = 80. Allready a bit more then the wizard with something like 10d4+40 - but not much. If you start combat with an argumented Vigor and then expand, it should work.
ZolDarklock 02-09-07, 01:12 AM	Thri-Kreen check on these boards for the Predator Hunter PrC
Zumarai 02-09-07, 09:11 AM	Human with the Half-Minotaur template.
LittleCarp04 02-26-07, 03:35 PM	Goliath Reasons being, well firstly Goliaths are fun haha, alot of RP options, then you have Bear warrior, the + to Str makes grappling easy as pie, and the Improved grab ability of the Black bear and Dire bear make it fun. And for kicks take Vow of Poverty. Since in bear form none of your equipment works in bear form, and you now have an extra + 15AC from your abilities, and the big thing, Freedom of Movement at lvl 14, basically making you impossible to grapple. I mean with Bear Form and Goliath you can have a + 24 STR (4 from Goliath and 20 from Dire Bear form), and that + Improved Grab + Powerful Build (which while in Dire Bear form allows you be treated as Huge (i think? need help to be sure on this.
Krusk 02-26-07, 07:04 PM	you dont get any racial abilities in bear form, as far as i can tell. Meaning the racial bonus to str isnt there. Powerful build isnt there. So its not as amazing as you think. If your doing bear warrior str becomes a dump stat until.
LittleCarp04 02-26-07, 07:50 PM	The description for Powerful build says it stacks with things that change your size, and under Bear Form, it specifically says your stats are not replaced by the bears stats, simply your rage/frenzy bonus is replaced by the bear strength bonus so i would say that the + to str from Goliath would definately stack.
Finfreeze 02-26-07, 08:01 PM	What about Anthropomorphic Baleen Whales? They get +8 to strength, large size, a natural weapon, 3 HD with no LA, and fighter BAB growth for their hit dice. So, uh, Half-Dragon Feral Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale or just Anthro Baleen Whale Psychic Warrior?
Krusk 02-26-07, 11:17 PM	The description for Powerful build says it stacks with things that change your size, and under Bear Form, it specifically says your stats are not replaced by the bears stats, simply your rage/frenzy bonus is replaced by the bear strength bonus so i would say that the + to str from Goliath would definately stack. Sweet. Sounds good. Didn't read up on bear form and assumed it was simply *as polymorph
ldcnuke 02-27-07, 02:35 PM	Human with good strength score. If fighter, then you can take 3 feats. A character I am currently playing took Combat Expertise, Improved Unarmed, and Improved Grapple at first level. He went through a CR 1 dungeon crawl alone and lived to tell the tale! :D
zook1shoe666 02-27-07, 02:56 PM	check out the Dvanti from the Dragon Compendium vol. 1. a race with a single soul and two bodies, +1 LA. the most uber PC monk race ever created!!! VoP makes them scarier!!
JarionSilverblades 02-27-07, 03:22 PM	With out a doubt Goliaths from Races of Stone are a great choice.
obrysii 02-27-07, 05:08 PM	I would have to go with Goliath or Half-Giant with a build toward the Reaping Mauler PrC. You might want to take Improved Unarmed Strike and Superior Unarmed Strike feats as well to get the unarmed damage up. Then take Improved Natural Attack to bump your Unarmed Strike up a size category.
zook1shoe666 02-27-07, 10:23 PM	the Dvanti gets UGLY... when your opponent has to make 2 different grapple checks or be grappled, and the two bodies can help each other out. +1 LA is very minor
Kn1ves 02-27-07, 11:39 PM	I played a Tibbit (Dragon Compendium) Rogue7/Reaping Mauler2 for a bit. He rocked house with his sneak attack and the Knife Fighter feat from Faerune Players Handbook. Plus a couple magic items to increase his strength. Remember once you have someone pinned they don't get their Dex bonus to armor.