| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Grandmaster_Kane05-11-07, 09:29 PM | I am making a Vapirelord Lycan but i dont know what lycan he should be afflicted with Which is the best for melee combat? |
| Grizzled Gryphon05-11-07, 09:40 PM | argueably, I would think the bear is best. Highest strength, and all. But, the Tiger isn't bad, either, and has some other options open to it. So, what kind of combatant are you going for? If you want the power attacker type, then go with bear. If you want the mobility fighter that actually really hurts things, go with the tiger. |
| Majick05-12-07, 12:16 AM | look through the back of the monster manual and check for what animal would suit best for the adjustment; you can make any animal into a lycanthrope |
| zook1shoe66605-12-07, 12:20 AM | i agree with Grizzled Gryphon and Majick, the high strength helps. Also look for something with a Bite and 2 Claw attacks. |
| Grandmaster_Kane05-12-07, 01:27 PM | i was considering tiger but i dont know im looking for a power attacker the bear seems to suit that but i dont know all the lycans so.. |
| Ardras05-12-07, 01:45 PM | Well, don't forget the tiger has pounce, an ability that every Melee Char will want to have (even better with charging, thinking of leap attack power attack with shocktrooper). |
| Thief_of_Hope05-12-07, 02:39 PM | I think a lot of it depends on how many levels you're willing to devote to your lycanthrope template, since they all have different ECL due to the different HD of their animals. Weretigers rock the house, but remember that the 6 HD + the LA +3 mean that you're losing at least 9 levels in classes. I don't know what the overall level you're going for is, but if you're also going to be a vampire lord, then going were-tiger puts you at near-epic or epic levels (I know that vampire LA is +8, but I don't know what the vampire lord's LA is). A human vampire were-tiger with a level in fighter would be treated as level 18. Conversely, the same vampiric human fighter who was a werewolf instead of a weretiger would be treated as level 14. So I'd figure out what level character I'm creating, and pick an animal with appropriate HD. |
| Loth05-12-07, 02:47 PM | You said vampire lord so will be an ABOMINATION?? This way constitution means nothing righ? So looking only in the monster manual I limited to a medium sized creatura that can only transform in large lycans... we have: Bear, brown (the strong) +16 str (that´s disturbing) +2 dex and +8 con improved grab an scent all in 6 HD it´s pretty good or dire bear raising the Str to +20 with 12HD (not so good to a player..) Tiger 6 HD +12 str +4 dex +6 con with pounce and rake is a mobily killing machine also has the improved grab Speed 40ft Deinonychus 4 HD (yeah dinossaur are animals too and the most deadly) +8 str +4 dex and +8 con pounce Speed 60 feet (fast than tiger) tiger still better, +4 str makes the diference... Dire Ape 5 HD +10 str +4 dex and +4 con with rend is good too and has climb speed 15 feet Dire wolf 6HD +14 str +4 dex +6 con trip just bite in animal form as natural attack But if you really want mobility take my favorite: Dire bat only 4HD +8 str +12 dex +6 con blind sense speed 20 feet 40 feet fly (good) Take flyby attack and just hit and run.... or better hit and fly |
| Loth05-12-07, 02:47 PM | Thief_of_Hope's >> he is aflicted the LA is +2 Werewolf only for flavor... because deinonychus and direbat are so much better.... |
| Thief_of_Hope05-12-07, 02:59 PM | Whoops, missed the afflicted part. But everything I said still holds true. Figuring out which HD you can afford and then choosing your critter from there seems like what will make the most sense. Nice outline of solid melee lycanthropes, by the way. A were-dire bat would be stellar for a mobile fighter. |
| Spikes01k05-12-07, 07:13 PM | If its medium then I think the best out there was Dire Tiger. Check them out, and NO dino's don't count, their not classified as animals. |
| Tobrecan05-12-07, 07:25 PM | and NO dino's don't count, their not classified as animals. Yes they are, they have the animal type and IIRC there was even an example character in one of the WotC articles on the main page a while back that was a dinosaur lycanthrope of some kind, I think he was a kobold to boot. |
| zook1shoe66605-12-07, 10:59 PM | i completely forgot about the octopus and squid.... they get more attacks per round then any of the others... and the regular octopus has low HD |
| NerdNumber105-12-07, 11:49 PM | Meepo was a wereflesh-raker, but many people think that clasifying that monstrocity as an animal was insane. I'm quite partial to the dire bat, because it has that nice fiend look. Also, the werebat has only 4HD, so you can fit in more character levels and you can turn into a creature with flight and blindsight (how many other martial characters can get that without spellcasters or magic items?). |
| Loth05-13-07, 04:40 PM | dire tiger is a shame has the double HD than a tiger and the only bennefit is a better saving throw.. and +4 strengh But Brown bear is better with just 6 HD.. For mobility already said dire bat is better than tiger and has less HD blindsense fly etc... killing machine Not even the dire hawk from races of the wild beats him Dire bat is from far too much better Too strengh and meele bear is the number 1 there´s no dobout.... |
| Loth05-13-07, 04:43 PM | octopus is great too by as DM Iwouldn´t allow hi, to be much time out of water while transformed... After all that much tentacles are freaking overpowered! |
| Squall25505-13-07, 06:20 PM | Um, what level is the game that you are going to be in? That is REALLY important when creating a lycan character. So far here's what I've heard: 10LA: +8 vampire, +2 lycan. +X HD: HD of animal. +3 levels: Vampire Lord PRC. so now you just gotta find an animal to make HD+13= the level of your game. |
| Peregrine_Wolf05-14-07, 04:07 PM | I like werewolf. I'm not a powergamer, I play for the fun of the character, so if your going for good stats, this may not be the best. But as was previously mentioned, werewolf is good for flavor. |
| Lionhearted05-14-07, 04:14 PM | I am making a Vapirelord Lycan but i dont know what lycan he should be afflicted with Which is the best for melee combat? Obviously someone seen underworld and got inspired sorry mate, but since you are a vampire LORD? (thats like what +16 la?) you cant be a Lycanthrope at all, UNDEAD cannot gain the lycanthrope template. |
| Vrael05-14-07, 04:19 PM | solution: apply the lycanthrope template first. |
| NerdNumber105-14-07, 06:56 PM | I was inspired to make a (natural) were(dire)bat shifter rouge (with fighter bonus feat varient. This would be a half-skill monkey/half-martial character with a nasty dex (+2 racial, +2 shifting, +12 in hybrid/animal) for ac(+7 natural too) and DR to defend and dex-based combat (2-weapon fighting, weapon finnesse,etc.). Also it will have blindsight 40ft (all forms) in addition to other lycanthrope traits and flight in animal form. Hope you can get some ideas from my rant. |
| Runepriest05-14-07, 10:45 PM | Something tells me this forum will devolve into a "If shifters can be lycanthropes" debate. Though the fact that you said natural may/may not help not starting the debate. And no should get any ideas from my post. |
| NerdNumber105-15-07, 09:05 AM | Something tells me this forum will devolve into a "If shifters can be lycanthropes" debate. Though the fact that you said natural may/may not help not starting the debate. And no should get any ideas from my post. Shifters are humanoids, thus they can be lycanthropes. And I'm sure that they would accept the curse (and even some breeding prodjects) better than most other humanoid races (it is their proud heritage). |
| Lionhearted05-15-07, 09:07 AM | solution: apply the lycanthrope template first. *cough* and werewolves cant gain the vampire template |
| Thief_of_Hope05-15-07, 01:10 PM | *cough* and werewolves cant gain the vampire template Really? The vampire template can be applied to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid creature, and since the lycanthrope template does not change the creature's type, but merely adds the subtype "shapechanger", I don't see why they wouldn't be able to become vampires. |
| zook1shoe66605-15-07, 04:21 PM | Thief_of_Hope is right.... nothing excludes them from the vampire template |
| Lionhearted05-16-07, 01:17 PM | Except the endless rant from the ancient debaters of Werewolf vs.Vampire :D |
| Thief_of_Hope05-16-07, 10:53 PM | Except the endless rant from the ancient debaters of Werewolf vs.Vampire :D I will agree with you there, they can get almost as bad as the pirates vs. ninjas crowd. ....... Not quite, but almost. |
| NerdNumber105-18-07, 08:34 AM | I will agree with you there, they can get almost as bad as the pirates vs. ninjas crowd. ....... Not quite, but almost. If you mention that all is lost! Get to the bunker the ninja/pirate fans are coming! (by the way, in D&D, lycantropes are better than Vampires. It varies from which world you talk about. If your lycanthropes have to wait until the full moon and they lose any control, then they suck, even if you need a silver bullet to kill them.) I still like the flavor of a were(dire)bat shifter. You could such a high dex and speed (along with your DR) that you would be untouchable. You think vampires are scary, try a 10ft tall bat creature that can move faster than any mortal (and isn't afraid of a pizza topping or running water). Wereglidewings (Eberron Campaign Setting, known in reality as pterasors(sp?)) are better if you just want flight, and wereeagles can fly like lightning (and if you go uncontrollable, all you'll do is hunt rats, birds, and fish (mostly fish)). Of course I'm a bit biased because I am trying to take flight out of the greedy hands of the mages and give it to the rest of us. Always remember, dinos and dires are animals too. (Weresharks, don't they keep the humanoid type and not gain the aquatic subtype. If this is so, then wouldn't any were(aquatic animal) be air breathing and not water breathing. That would be interesting.) |
| El_Machinae05-18-07, 02:23 PM | I suspect that a werecreature that becomes undead would be 'cured' of his lycanthropy. |
| HeWhoIs05-18-07, 09:34 PM | The lycan template can only be added to humanoid and giants. If your a vampire, you are undead. Your DM will likley allow it anyway, but you should confirm it with him/her. |
| Nathreet05-18-07, 10:21 PM | I will agree with you there, they can get almost as bad as the pirates vs. ninjas crowd. ....... Not quite, but almost. Except the endless rant from the ancient debaters of Werewolf vs.Vampire :D vampire werewolf multiclassed as a pirate/ninja :D |
| TheAnthroDM05-18-07, 11:02 PM | There is nothing RAW that says Undead cannot shapechange, nor would it make any sense to say they can't. As Shapeshifting is always a SU ability and thus has no biological reasoning. |
| LeuktheSavior05-18-07, 11:05 PM | Were-desmodu war bat you gain a fly speed a bite attack a claw attack wing attack huge size hybrid form str bonus+13 dex bonus+12 con bonus (i forget) you cant go wrong. |
| HeWhoIs05-18-07, 11:52 PM | There is nothing RAW that says Undead cannot shapechange, nor would it make any sense to say they can't. As Shapeshifting is always a SU ability and thus has no biological reasoning. The reason i say a vampire can't be a lycan is beceause in the lycan template, it says that it can only be added to humanoid or giants. CREATING A LYCANTHROPE “Lycanthrope” is a template that can be added to any humanoid or giant (referred to hereafter as the base creature). The lycanthrope template can be inherited (for natural lycanthropes) or acquired (for afflicted lycanthropes). Becoming a lycanthrope is very much like multiclassing as an animal and gaining the appropriate Hit Dice. |
| LeuktheSavior05-19-07, 08:24 AM | so what you're saying HeWhoIs, is that a human vampire is no longer humanoid? the base creature for a vampire lord therianthrope would still be human, because the base race for the vampire was human. |
| zook1shoe66605-19-07, 09:09 AM | it says that it can only be added to humanoid or giants. yeah but remember... if you become a vampire afterwards, you keep the Lycanthrope template. this applies to 99% of templates. just because you changed from the original requirement of humanoid or monstrous humanoid. being undead brings up another problem though... undead are immune to diseases. THAT is why they would lose afflicted Lycanthropy. but, since natural Lycanthropy is not a disease, they would not lose it. |
| Lionhearted05-19-07, 11:51 AM | "ok it gotta be a rule against this" whohoo! purebreed wolfies ftw |
| Nathreet05-19-07, 01:03 PM | I believe there's some book that includes a whole template tree that shows what can be applied to what. Undead is around the top, making it incompatible with most other templates. |
| zook1shoe66605-20-07, 12:13 AM | yeah, that table is in the Savage Species. it does not talk about templates being null and void due to type. it shows which type has "priority" over the others in the end. you can only go up on the table... such as a human with the vampire feat becomes an undead... they can still take a template that would normally change you to something lower, just your type stays undead. |
| HeWhoIs05-20-07, 09:51 PM | I agree. The order would matter. But no, a vampire is no longer humanoid. It's undead. |
| Phalo05-21-07, 12:47 PM | I am making a Vapirelord Lycan but i dont know what lycan he should be afflicted with Which is the best for melee combat? (Lycan la +3) + (base vampire is la+8) + (vampire lord you need 10 class levels) =la +21 might as well be an epic wizard |
| zook1shoe66605-21-07, 04:43 PM | I agree. The order would matter. But no, a vampire is no longer humanoid. It's undead. it only loses the Lycanthopy, if it is the afflicted version, since undead are immune to disease. if it is the natural version, they retain it. like i said before. |
| zook1shoe66605-22-07, 12:15 PM | check out page 144 in the Savage Species. |
| HairyApe05-22-07, 12:21 PM | Well, I've always liked the Were-Baboon. 1hd, +4str, +4dex, +2 con. Very nice. |
| feraltibbit05-22-07, 12:36 PM | I am making a Vapirelord Lycan but i dont know what lycan he should be afflicted with Which is the best for melee combat? I'd go with the werebat. Why not? It's definitely symbolic with the bloodsucker part. Since he/she transforms N2 a bat, the enemy would only think "vampire"... ...that is, until they try 2 coak him/her out N2 the sunlight or cast "sunstorm" or "light", try to turn or resurrect him/her, or anything else that affects only vampires/undead. Matter of fact: vampire lord/werewolf lord!!! Howz `bout dat!? Ask your DM if he/she'll allow it if any rules apply against it for some reason, esp. if playing a high-level game. |
| feraltibbit05-22-07, 12:43 PM | AAAARRRGH, Nathreet-matey! That B a good 1! And mighty dangerous, 2! YAAAARRRGH!! |
| NerdNumber105-22-07, 01:31 PM | I'd go with the werebat. Why not? It's definitely symbolic with the bloodsucker part. Since he/she transforms N2 a bat, the enemy would only think "vampire"... ...that is, until they try 2 coak him/her out N2 the sunlight or cast "sunstorm" or "light", try to turn or resurrect him/her, or anything else that affects only vampires/undead. Matter of fact: vampire lord/werewolf lord!!! Howz `bout dat!? Ask your DM if he/she'll allow it if any rules apply against it for some reason, esp. if playing a high-level game. Glad someone agrees. I still love the +12dex bat creature with duel-weilded finessed d8 damage short swords with a 10ft reach, DR, natural armor and plenty of versitility. This has been stuck in my head a bit too long. Also the large sized (2d6 damage) composite longbow with strength bonus would be fun. Then there is the blindsight and the dex-based skills you can pump-up. I was invisioning a shifter werebat, feat bonus varient rogue. |
| Aimian Silverflash05-22-07, 04:27 PM | Not to derail the thread, but what book(s) are the rules for a character playing a lycanthrope in? I have a guy that wants to play an afflicted were-crocodile, and I wanted to find all the rules for them. -Things like: What's the check for an afflicted struck in combat to not shift uncontrollably? What's the ECL for the different were-races? etc, etc. Thanks :D edit: And for the record, I wouldn't allow a werewolf-vampire character, personally. Either you are one, or you are the other, IMO. Just me though. |
| NerdNumber105-22-07, 06:33 PM | Not to derail the thread, but what book(s) are the rules for a character playing a lycanthrope in? I have a guy that wants to play an afflicted were-crocodile, and I wanted to find all the rules for them. -Things like: What's the check for an afflicted struck in combat to not shift uncontrollably? What's the ECL for the different were-races? etc, etc. Thanks :D edit: And for the record, I wouldn't allow a werewolf-vampire character, personally. Either you are one, or you are the other, IMO. Just me though. Have you checked the Monster Manual under lycanthrope :D. It is really just as easy as any other monsterous race. |
| Aimian Silverflash05-24-07, 12:12 PM | Have you checked the Monster Manual under lycanthrope :D. It is really just as easy as any other monsterous race. I have, but it isn't very specific on the rules about an afflicted being struck in combat, trying to resist shifting. I was probably going to go with a will save if all else fails, but I'd like to know if there is anything official. |
| NerdNumber105-24-07, 01:26 PM | I have, but it isn't very specific on the rules about an afflicted being struck in combat, trying to resist shifting. I was probably going to go with a will save if all else fails, but I'd like to know if there is anything official. The lycanthropes get a new skill (control shape or something, wis based), check the back of the book where the monsterous feats are. It counts as a class skill for those that know about they're curse, but it can be used untrained. |
| Spikes01k05-24-07, 02:00 PM | Yes they are, they have the animal type and IIRC there was even an example character in one of the WotC articles on the main page a while back that was a dinosaur lycanthrope of some kind, I think he was a kobold to boot. Maybe it was errata'd but I did see that dino's are animals in MM III I think. Very sorry, I was wrong, but the ones I saw in there were ether very big or not worth it compaired to other lycanths. Dinos are listed as beasts in MMI, not animals, and last I checked you couldn't use Beasts as basis for lycanthropy. |
| Spikes01k05-24-07, 02:06 PM | Were-desmodu war bat you gain a fly speed a bite attack a claw attack wing attack huge size hybrid form str bonus+13 dex bonus+12 con bonus (i forget) you cant go wrong. Except you need to be size large naturally to begin with to take that, and that takes at least LA +1. |
| Spikes01k05-24-07, 02:15 PM | yeah but remember... if you become a vampire afterwards, you keep the Lycanthrope template. this applies to 99% of templates. just because you changed from the original requirement of humanoid or monstrous humanoid. being undead brings up another problem though... undead are immune to diseases. THAT is why they would lose afflicted Lycanthropy. but, since natural Lycanthropy is not a disease, they would not lose it. I can completely agree with this statement. That makes perfect logical sense. Becoming a vampire does cure you of all diseases |
| Thief_of_Hope05-24-07, 02:47 PM | Maybe it was errata'd but I did see that dino's are animals in MM III I think. Very sorry, I was wrong, but the ones I saw in there were ether very big or not worth it compaired to other lycanths. Dinos are listed as beasts in MMI, not animals, and last I checked you couldn't use Beasts as basis for lycanthropy. Oh I see, you were checking out the 3.0 rules. They got rid of the beast type in 3.5, and anything that was a beast became either an animal or a magical beast. Dinos got shifted into the animal camp. |
| LeuktheSavior05-31-07, 07:53 AM | Except you need to be size large naturally to begin with to take that, and that takes at least LA +1. Races of Faerûn- Jotunbrud. you become a large human, have to take it at character creation, but Im fairly certain that covers your complaint without raising the LA. your ECL would be 12 or 13 which is problematic, but the con modifier is +10 as well. |
| Pellanor05-31-07, 01:35 PM | The best base animals (IMHO) for a lycanthrope: Magebred Horrid Dire Ape Paragon: +28 Str, +22 Dex, +22 Con, +15 Natural Armour, Land Speed 90(animal form), Climb Speed 45(animal form), Acid Immunity, Acid damage on claw attacks, rend, and opposable thumbs in animal form (that means weapon use). LA +2, 5 Animal HD. Magebred Paragon Baboon: +22 Str, +20 Dex, +20 Con, +9 Natural Armour, Mostly humanoid shape and has opposable thumbs in animal form, so you should still be able to use all your gear. LA +2, 1 Animal HD Desmodu Guard Bat: +6 Str, +12 Dex, +6 Con, +5 NA, 60' fly speed (good), Wounding Bite, 120' Blind Sense. LA +2, 4 animal HD. This is the all round best bonus / (HD+2) base animal without templates. Has the versatility of flight :) I've put together a spreadsheet that lists all the best base animals. I haven't updated it in a while, sine Storm Wrack came out, but there's still 110 animals to choose from. You can find it in my sig. note on templates being applied to base animal: There's nothing (other than your DM) stopping you from applying a template to the base animal. You also don't get any LA for those templates, since the LA of a lycanthrope is independent from the abilities of the base animal. However you can only apply templates which don't change the base animal's type. Also if you apply the Paragon template like I did in some of the examples, then you fully deserve the beating that your DM gives you. |
| Thalspar05-31-07, 08:18 PM | see this for the lychanthropes can't be vampires http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20070323a reading the posts on the homepage includes loads and loads of som good stuff and good info |