best natural attacks [Archive] - Wizards Community

best natural attacks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GruunTheLegend
11-28-07, 12:57 AM which creature do you think has the best natural attack(s)? dont get confused, I im not asking for the creature with the most natural attacks.
VanGrue
11-28-07, 01:16 AM This is a tough one. From a coolness stand-point, I'm personally a fan of the mindflayer's tentacles, since it can pull the opponent's brain out after enough time and complete success. Just cool, though I still hate to come across any in a campaign!

Also, anything with a trample attack.

If you're looking for "best" as in most damage, most uses, etc. then I'm not sure I can help you. I bet there are tons of threads on that, though, especially on the CO board.
CryoSilver
11-28-07, 01:20 AM Bite is probably the best, since it is all three damage tyes, and therefore, overcomes all forms of type-based DR.
Xiuhcoatl
11-28-07, 08:38 AM Large Adamantine Dragons. With a magical flight enabled.

Bite Claw Claw Claw Claw Wing-Slap Wing-Slap Tail-Slap.

And those attacks are treated as Huge. Add in Improved Natural Attack (I believe they stack) and you've Gargantuan weapon damage. Get an item of Expansion or something, and you're up to Colossal-sized damage.

That means, assuming "maxed out" strength, that an ECL 20 Adamantine Dragon/Psychic Warrior 1 would deal (with INA on its Bite, Claws and Tail-slap and magical Flight):

Bite (4d8+20) + Claw (4d6+10) + Claw (4d6+10) + Claw (4d6+10) + Claw (4d6+10) + Wing-Slap (2d6+10) + Wing-Slap (2d6+10) + Tail-Slap (4d8+30)

For an average damage of
((4 * 4.5) + 20) + (4 * ((4 * 3.5) + 10)) + (2 * ((2 * 3.5) + 10)) + ((4 * 4.5) + 30) = 216 per round. Without feats like Rapid Strike or Power Attack

Its minimum damage would be 138!
Narthon
11-28-07, 09:49 AM Which is quite low for a level 21 character of any type...
Orchomenos
11-28-07, 01:32 PM Bite. With Improved Grab and Swallow Whole. That, with a creature with DR/Magic, and the victim will have a real hard time getting out of there! :ghosted:

Claw or Slam are probably the cheapest. Many low EL playable races have it (Kenku, Warforged), giving an interesting low-level character. But you can't use it along with a weapon, making it less appealing for mid-level characters. :fight!:

I once created a fey creature with very long hair, and an Hair Lash natural attack. :love:
Xiuhcoatl
11-28-07, 03:36 PM Which is white low for a level 21 character of any type...

Explain, please.

Edit: A power-attacking Adamantine dragon with an amulet of natural weapons +5 would deal an average of 376 damage.

And to answer the OP's question ... often times, the creatures with the best natural weapons are those with the most ... and Dragons are pretty well up there as far as natural combative ability goes.
VanGrue
11-28-07, 09:09 PM Most of you are forgetting the OP's actual question, which was what's the creature with the best natural attacks?

I would like to hear back from the OP on what is meant by "best" though, as per my previous post.
GruunTheLegend
11-28-07, 11:08 PM ok, everyone is messing up, i dont want 4 million attacks. ONE attack maybe two that would look cool if you saw it happen and give the creature that would be doing this. EX. A minotaur with flaming horns that charged with his gore attack
or like the swallowing whole thing was cool
your views of the best, NOT THE MOST!!!!

P.S. you can have a minotaur with flaming horns, if you had a wish and made the horns masterworks. so i don't want to hear about that
VanGrue
11-29-07, 12:20 AM I assert the validity of my response up top. :O

Of course, now that you mention it, having a trample attack with some extra damage type like fire or cold damage sounds cool too. A big trampling beast running someone over, and freezing them in the process? Badass.
dman11235
11-29-07, 04:01 AM You can also have a minotaur with flaming horns without said wish. I believe there is a low level spell that makes a natural attack flaming, and if not, the Amulet of Natural Attacks (Savage Species) allows weapon enhancements to be put on natural weapons.

My favorite? Bite. With the throwing and returning properties. Now go ahead, try and picture that one. Specifically dragon, or really any big beasty would work.

Close second: gore (unicorn), also with throwing/returning. You're just firing your horn at people.

And third: Monk unarmed strike from a kobold. Because you can (yes, still) put throwing/returning, do high damage, and any part of your body works. Even small bits of hair. And kobolds are cool, especially with sorcerer levels and Greater Mighty Whallop up (Races of the Dragon). "What? That kobold monk is dealing 12d8 base? With his HAIR?!?! Do kobolds even have hair?"
Bahumut
11-29-07, 06:49 AM You can also have a minotaur with flaming horns without said wish. I believe there is a low level spell that makes a natural attack flaming, and if not, the Amulet of Natural Attacks (Savage Species) allows weapon enhancements to be put on natural weapons.

My favorite? Bite. With the throwing and returning properties. Now go ahead, try and picture that one. Specifically dragon, or really any big beasty would work.

Close second: gore (unicorn), also with throwing/returning. You're just firing your horn at people.

And third: Monk unarmed strike from a kobold. Because you can (yes, still) put throwing/returning, do high damage, and any part of your body works. Even small bits of hair. And kobolds are cool, especially with sorcerer levels and Greater Mighty Whallop up (Races of the Dragon). "What? That kobold monk is dealing 12d8 base? With his HAIR?!?! Do kobolds even have hair?"

...somehow i think you've been fooled sir :D

and if not, the images make my brain explode :headexplo
VanGrue
11-29-07, 02:30 PM Without that Necklace of Natural Attacks, You can't apply the "throwing" ability to natural attacks unless the creature is a monk and you're trying to get the DM to hate you. Natural attacks, as made with horns, claws, teeth, etc., are made with natural weapons, which are different than melee weapons. Melee weapons are manufactured and wielded, as opposed to being a part of a creature's body. Both do melee damage, but they are not both melee weapons. Plus, the description states that the weapon is "crafted" with the ability; You can't craft your hands (unless of course you're a warforged or construct).

The only reason a monk would work is because his unarmed strikes count as both natural weapons and manufactured weapons, but this is a technicality. I can't imagine a DM allowing a normal living creature to apply Throwing to its limbs. Plus, I'm pretty sure that a monk's unarmed strikes don't (or shouldn't) extend to their hair. If I were DMing and a player petitioned me to allow them to use individual hairs as unarmed strikes, each hair would be treated as being inappropriately sized for the creature, counting as Diminuitive weapons, and bringing along enough penalties to negate most if not all damage. In the end, it wouldn't be worth using as a weapon except as to show off.

"Hey guys, look what I can do with my hair!" :D

In any case, you can't throw your natural weapons unless they are capable of being detached. This, of course, is why the Necklace of Natural Attacks is indisputably lame. It provides the example of applying throwing and returning to the necklace, and thus applying to natural attacks, but it's ignoring the purpose of the weapon ability and acting as though under the influence of the CO board. :o
dman11235
11-29-07, 06:22 PM They merely shouldn't. It does say any part of the body I believe. If not, oh well. I wouldn't do that. And I don't believe many people would actually try that in a game. And yes. They even use throwing/returning as the example for Amulet of Natural Attacks. My third favorite would still be that kobold monk/sorcerer. 12d8 from a small creature? YES!
VanGrue
11-29-07, 09:23 PM They merely shouldn't. It does say any part of the body I believe. If not, oh well. I wouldn't do that. And I don't believe many people would actually try that in a game. And yes. They even use throwing/returning as the example for Amulet of Natural Attacks. My third favorite would still be that kobold monk/sorcerer. 12d8 from a small creature? YES!

Dude, a Kobold Monk/Sorcerer is awesome no matter what. :D
Orchomenos
11-30-07, 09:21 AM Duh. Just saw you requested a specific creature. Let's give a specific example of my Bite/Improved Grab/Swallow Whole idea: the Nightcrawler (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersMtoN.html#nightcrawler) then. They have DR 15/Silver and Magic, and +45 Grapple, so it's not easy to get out of there. When you're in the gizzard, you take 2d8+12 bludgeonning damages, 12 acid damages and one negative level. And to be sure no one will help you, they have a 60' burrow speed.
zook1shoe666
11-30-07, 12:24 PM Hulking Hurler's really throw anything :-p just check my signature for the UBER damage ;)

otherwise.... Bite attacks get ugly for Fang Dragons.... they deal Con drain with their Bite attacks, while other creatures have disease or poison attacks that can get ugly.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GruunTheLegend 11-28-07, 12:57 AM	which creature do you think has the best natural attack(s)? dont get confused, I im not asking for the creature with the most natural attacks.
VanGrue 11-28-07, 01:16 AM	This is a tough one. From a coolness stand-point, I'm personally a fan of the mindflayer's tentacles, since it can pull the opponent's brain out after enough time and complete success. Just cool, though I still hate to come across any in a campaign! Also, anything with a trample attack. If you're looking for "best" as in most damage, most uses, etc. then I'm not sure I can help you. I bet there are tons of threads on that, though, especially on the CO board.
CryoSilver 11-28-07, 01:20 AM	Bite is probably the best, since it is all three damage tyes, and therefore, overcomes all forms of type-based DR.
Xiuhcoatl 11-28-07, 08:38 AM	Large Adamantine Dragons. With a magical flight enabled. Bite Claw Claw Claw Claw Wing-Slap Wing-Slap Tail-Slap. And those attacks are treated as Huge. Add in Improved Natural Attack (I believe they stack) and you've Gargantuan weapon damage. Get an item of Expansion or something, and you're up to Colossal-sized damage. That means, assuming "maxed out" strength, that an ECL 20 Adamantine Dragon/Psychic Warrior 1 would deal (with INA on its Bite, Claws and Tail-slap and magical Flight): Bite (4d8+20) + Claw (4d6+10) + Claw (4d6+10) + Claw (4d6+10) + Claw (4d6+10) + Wing-Slap (2d6+10) + Wing-Slap (2d6+10) + Tail-Slap (4d8+30) For an average damage of ((4 * 4.5) + 20) + (4 * ((4 * 3.5) + 10)) + (2 * ((2 * 3.5) + 10)) + ((4 * 4.5) + 30) = 216 per round. Without feats like Rapid Strike or Power Attack Its minimum damage would be 138!
Narthon 11-28-07, 09:49 AM	Which is quite low for a level 21 character of any type...
Orchomenos 11-28-07, 01:32 PM	Bite. With Improved Grab and Swallow Whole. That, with a creature with DR/Magic, and the victim will have a real hard time getting out of there! :ghosted: Claw or Slam are probably the cheapest. Many low EL playable races have it (Kenku, Warforged), giving an interesting low-level character. But you can't use it along with a weapon, making it less appealing for mid-level characters. :fight!: I once created a fey creature with very long hair, and an Hair Lash natural attack. :love:
Xiuhcoatl 11-28-07, 03:36 PM	Which is white low for a level 21 character of any type... Explain, please. Edit: A power-attacking Adamantine dragon with an amulet of natural weapons +5 would deal an average of 376 damage. And to answer the OP's question ... often times, the creatures with the best natural weapons are those with the most ... and Dragons are pretty well up there as far as natural combative ability goes.
VanGrue 11-28-07, 09:09 PM	Most of you are forgetting the OP's actual question, which was what's the creature with the best natural attacks? I would like to hear back from the OP on what is meant by "best" though, as per my previous post.
GruunTheLegend 11-28-07, 11:08 PM	ok, everyone is messing up, i dont want 4 million attacks. ONE attack maybe two that would look cool if you saw it happen and give the creature that would be doing this. EX. A minotaur with flaming horns that charged with his gore attack or like the swallowing whole thing was cool your views of the best, NOT THE MOST!!!! P.S. you can have a minotaur with flaming horns, if you had a wish and made the horns masterworks. so i don't want to hear about that
VanGrue 11-29-07, 12:20 AM	I assert the validity of my response up top. :O Of course, now that you mention it, having a trample attack with some extra damage type like fire or cold damage sounds cool too. A big trampling beast running someone over, and freezing them in the process? Badass.
dman11235 11-29-07, 04:01 AM	You can also have a minotaur with flaming horns without said wish. I believe there is a low level spell that makes a natural attack flaming, and if not, the Amulet of Natural Attacks (Savage Species) allows weapon enhancements to be put on natural weapons. My favorite? Bite. With the throwing and returning properties. Now go ahead, try and picture that one. Specifically dragon, or really any big beasty would work. Close second: gore (unicorn), also with throwing/returning. You're just firing your horn at people. And third: Monk unarmed strike from a kobold. Because you can (yes, still) put throwing/returning, do high damage, and any part of your body works. Even small bits of hair. And kobolds are cool, especially with sorcerer levels and Greater Mighty Whallop up (Races of the Dragon). "What? That kobold monk is dealing 12d8 base? With his HAIR?!?! Do kobolds even have hair?"
Bahumut 11-29-07, 06:49 AM	You can also have a minotaur with flaming horns without said wish. I believe there is a low level spell that makes a natural attack flaming, and if not, the Amulet of Natural Attacks (Savage Species) allows weapon enhancements to be put on natural weapons. My favorite? Bite. With the throwing and returning properties. Now go ahead, try and picture that one. Specifically dragon, or really any big beasty would work. Close second: gore (unicorn), also with throwing/returning. You're just firing your horn at people. And third: Monk unarmed strike from a kobold. Because you can (yes, still) put throwing/returning, do high damage, and any part of your body works. Even small bits of hair. And kobolds are cool, especially with sorcerer levels and Greater Mighty Whallop up (Races of the Dragon). "What? That kobold monk is dealing 12d8 base? With his HAIR?!?! Do kobolds even have hair?" ...somehow i think you've been fooled sir :D and if not, the images make my brain explode :headexplo
VanGrue 11-29-07, 02:30 PM	Without that Necklace of Natural Attacks, You can't apply the "throwing" ability to natural attacks unless the creature is a monk and you're trying to get the DM to hate you. Natural attacks, as made with horns, claws, teeth, etc., are made with natural weapons, which are different than melee weapons. Melee weapons are manufactured and wielded, as opposed to being a part of a creature's body. Both do melee damage, but they are not both melee weapons. Plus, the description states that the weapon is "crafted" with the ability; You can't craft your hands (unless of course you're a warforged or construct). The only reason a monk would work is because his unarmed strikes count as both natural weapons and manufactured weapons, but this is a technicality. I can't imagine a DM allowing a normal living creature to apply Throwing to its limbs. Plus, I'm pretty sure that a monk's unarmed strikes don't (or shouldn't) extend to their hair. If I were DMing and a player petitioned me to allow them to use individual hairs as unarmed strikes, each hair would be treated as being inappropriately sized for the creature, counting as Diminuitive weapons, and bringing along enough penalties to negate most if not all damage. In the end, it wouldn't be worth using as a weapon except as to show off. "Hey guys, look what I can do with my hair!" :D In any case, you can't throw your natural weapons unless they are capable of being detached. This, of course, is why the Necklace of Natural Attacks is indisputably lame. It provides the example of applying throwing and returning to the necklace, and thus applying to natural attacks, but it's ignoring the purpose of the weapon ability and acting as though under the influence of the CO board. :o
dman11235 11-29-07, 06:22 PM	They merely shouldn't. It does say any part of the body I believe. If not, oh well. I wouldn't do that. And I don't believe many people would actually try that in a game. And yes. They even use throwing/returning as the example for Amulet of Natural Attacks. My third favorite would still be that kobold monk/sorcerer. 12d8 from a small creature? YES!
VanGrue 11-29-07, 09:23 PM	They merely shouldn't. It does say any part of the body I believe. If not, oh well. I wouldn't do that. And I don't believe many people would actually try that in a game. And yes. They even use throwing/returning as the example for Amulet of Natural Attacks. My third favorite would still be that kobold monk/sorcerer. 12d8 from a small creature? YES! Dude, a Kobold Monk/Sorcerer is awesome no matter what. :D
Orchomenos 11-30-07, 09:21 AM	Duh. Just saw you requested a specific creature. Let's give a specific example of my Bite/Improved Grab/Swallow Whole idea: the Nightcrawler (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersMtoN.html#nightcrawler) then. They have DR 15/Silver and Magic, and +45 Grapple, so it's not easy to get out of there. When you're in the gizzard, you take 2d8+12 bludgeonning damages, 12 acid damages and one negative level. And to be sure no one will help you, they have a 60' burrow speed.
zook1shoe666 11-30-07, 12:24 PM	Hulking Hurler's really throw anything :-p just check my signature for the UBER damage ;) otherwise.... Bite attacks get ugly for Fang Dragons.... they deal Con drain with their Bite attacks, while other creatures have disease or poison attacks that can get ugly.