Best race for Monk?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best race for Monk?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gromten
04-10-07, 03:05 AM Just wondering what everyone thinks the best ECL 0-2 race is for a straight monk and why??
Staciaholi
04-10-07, 03:10 AM I think the Winged template would be a nice choice, from Savage Species, applied to any ECL-0 race. It's got some nice perks, and is only +2 LA. Among the bonuses, besides flight, are +4 dex (for your AC and perhaps finessing fists) and +2 Wis for AC. Hope this helps.
JulesCARV
04-10-07, 03:22 AM Spikers from the Planar Handbook (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040706a) look good.

Warforged from the Eberron Campaign Setting are also good if they can get a battlefist, in spite of their wisdom penalty.
Steely_Dan
04-10-07, 04:22 AM -Aasimar (Wis +2, energy resistances)
-Githzerai (+6 Dex, psi-like abilities)
-Buoman (+2 Wis and some other goodies I can’t remember)
-Half-Orc (Good Str based monk)
-Anthropomorphic Bat (+6 Wis, fat for a Stunning Fister monk)
The_Shaman
04-10-07, 04:37 AM Githzerai get a wisdom bonus, too, and their psi-likes are golden for monks.
Orchomenos
04-10-07, 09:14 AM Spikers from the Planar Handbook (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040706a) look good.

Warforged from the Eberron Campaign Setting are also good if they can get a battlefist, in spite of their wisdom penalty.

Spikers have this traits (amongst other):
Damage reduction 2/bludgeoning: A spiker's spiny skin grants resistance to bludgeoning attacks, though piercing or slashing attacks slip through normally.

Shouldn't it be DR2/Piercing or Slashing?

Catfolks aren't bad. +4 DEX, +1 Natural Armor, 40' base movement for +1 LA.
Kobolds could be decent finesse monks. Small size, +2 DEX, +1 Natural armor for a total of +3 AC, 30' movement.
Lizardfolks could be good. +5 Natural Armor, 3 Natural Attacks (as per the rules, you can use the bite and 1 claw in addition to your Flurry of Blow, but many house-ruled that you can use both claws.)
CommanderFalken
04-10-07, 09:16 AM I'm suprised nobody's mentioned it yet... Non-psionic Thri-kreen.
Steely_Dan
04-10-07, 09:22 AM I'm suprised nobody's mentioned it yet... Non-psionic Thri-kreen.

Totally:

18th level thri-kreen monk (2 monstrous humanoid HD) with Greater Multi-Weapon Fighting, Multiattack and a 10 Str:

Full Attack: Flurry of blows +13/+13/+13/+8/+3 and unarmed strike +13/+8/+3 and unarmed strike +13/+8/+3 and unarmed strike +13/+8/+3 and 4 claws +13 each and bite +13

19 attacks per round.
The_Shaman
04-10-07, 10:01 AM That is kinda weird though - is it legal to do several unarmed attack sequences and then attack with the claws? It's like a half-dragon monk doing his full TWF routine and then attacking with claws and a bite.
AMGriffin
04-10-07, 10:09 AM Half-ogre.

Large size=More damage and reach.
EvilVegan
04-10-07, 10:19 AM Firebreathing Changeling monk/warshaper.

http://cscentrl.com/Dhalsim_standpunch_strong.gif
Enderlaand
04-10-07, 10:21 AM Um... Needs to be said. The best race for any class in Human.
Steely_Dan
04-10-07, 10:33 AM That is kinda weird though - is it legal to do several unarmed attack sequences and then attack with the claws?

According to the latest RotG article, my thri-kreen build is perfectly legal.

Remember, unarmed strikes can be fists, feet, elbows, kicks, head-butts etc.

Fear the dreaded Flurry of Buttocks!
3DJutsu
04-10-07, 10:36 AM Firebreathing Changeling monk/warshaper.

http://cscentrl.com/Dhalsim_standpunch_strong.gif

Haha, this one wins. But my vote is also for a Half-Orc Monk, but thats just my personal flavor.
The_Shaman
04-10-07, 11:19 AM According to the latest RotG article, my thri-kreen build is perfectly legal.

Remember, unarmed strikes can be fists, feet, elbows, kicks, head-butts etc.

Fear the dreaded Flurry of Buttocks!

The first sequence okay, but the later ones are because of your extra limbs. RotG is what, anyway? Races of the..?
obrysii
04-10-07, 11:22 AM Merfolk make pretty good monks, and the monk's increase in move speed helps out a lot.
Steely_Dan
04-10-07, 11:22 AM RotG is what, anyway?

Rules of the Game by Skip Williams on the WotC site.

The 3.5 FAQ also supports the build.
JulesCARV
04-10-07, 09:17 PM Spikers have this traits (amongst other):
Damage reduction 2/bludgeoning: A spiker's spiny skin grants resistance to bludgeoning attacks, though piercing or slashing attacks slip through normally.

Shouldn't it be DR2/Piercing or Slashing?

Yeah, it's confusing. I suppose the solution is "ask your DM whether you have DR/bludgeoning or DR/slashing and piercing." Either one is cool. I think a spiker would be a pretty good monk regardless :).
Captain_Kobold
04-12-07, 12:15 AM Totally:

18th level thri-kreen monk (2 monstrous humanoid HD) with Greater Multi-Weapon Fighting, Multiattack and a 10 Str:

Full Attack: Flurry of blows +13/+13/+13/+8/+3 and unarmed strike +13/+8/+3 and unarmed strike +13/+8/+3 and unarmed strike +13/+8/+3 and 4 claws +13 each and bite +13

19 attacks per round.

Something feels skewy about this, but not knowing exactly what the Multi weapon fighting feat tree does, I can't pin it down.

I assume that its strength is actually above 10 in practice?
19 attacks still seems odd. Even though we're talking about an Epic, 22nd level character here aren't we?
bobothechimp
04-12-07, 12:24 AM ECL 21, I think. Nonpsionic thri-keen have 2 monstrous humanoid HD and +1 LA. I never did understand how all those attacks work, and how to find the number and attack bonus

In my opinion, for a monk, the best race is the biggest. More powerful unarmed attacks, higher speed, larger reach, better grapple check.
Steely_Dan
04-12-07, 02:49 AM I assume that its strength is actually above 10 in practice?
19 attacks still seems odd. Even though we're talking about an Epic, 22nd level character here aren't we?

No that's with a 10 Str – he has BAB +15 (from 18 monk HD/levels and 2 Monstrous Humanoid HD/levels), –2 for Multi-Weapon Fighting to his flurry and off-hand attacks (total +13), and –2 from Multiattack with his natural weapons as secondary attacks (total +13).

The key is you can make off-hand, and natural attacks in addition to a flurry. And unarmed strikes can be made with fists, kicks, elbows, knees, head-butts…buttocks etc.

And he's not Epic. He chose LA buy-off, so the character is ECL 20 (18 monk HD/levels and 2 Monstrous Humanoid HD/levels).
Zaistars69
04-12-07, 11:56 AM Unarmed strikes (as per the SRD) are made with punch, kick, headbut so that's five possible limbs for a human. the monk class adds knees and elbows. Now with the thrikreen you have to ignore the claws (hands) in this because you are going to be using those for the claw attacks. Also the headbut can't be used because you are biting. So you have four elbows, two knees, and two feet (although I'd rule you can't kick someone and knee them in the same round). So you can do (without my rule) up to four elbows (flurry plus the three unarmed) then get your four claws, and the bite. so yea technically as long as you are a monk this works fine. Sick.
teshen
04-12-07, 03:31 PM Unarmed strikes (as per the SRD) are made with punch, kick, headbut so that's five possible limbs for a human. the monk class adds knees and elbows.
Unarmed strike is all the same. You can knee or kick somebody without martial training... it just won't be as effective, and in D&D this means provoking an attack of opportunity without Improved Unarmed Strike or some form of natural attacks...

(That seems to mean if you have some form of natural attack and you make an unarmed strike without the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you still provoke no AoO since you are still armed... Is this accurate?)

. . .Also the headbut can't be used because you are biting. So you have four elbows, two knees, and two feet (although I'd rule you can't kick someone and knee them in the same round). So you can do (without my rule) up to four elbows (flurry plus the three unarmed) then get your four claws, and the bite. so yea technically as long as you are a monk this works fine. Sick.
Actually, a human can even knee and kick in the same motion...

But yeah, most of the natural attack/improved unarmed strike/two weapon builds make my brain hurt... :twitch:
Zaistars69
04-12-07, 03:39 PM Unarmed strike is all the same. You can knee or kick somebody without martial training... it just won't be as effective, and in D&D this means provoking an attack of opportunity without Improved Unarmed Strike or some form of natural attacks...
That's what I said
[QUOTE=teshen;12073894]
(That seems to mean if you have some form of natural attack and you make an unarmed strike without the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you still provoke no AoO since you are still armed... Is this accurate?)
QUOTE]
I would say no. If you have claws and instead ballup your fist and punch someone or kick them it is unarmed and therefore provokes. At least from my reading. It is only he natural attack that doesn't provoke.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gromten 04-10-07, 03:05 AM	Just wondering what everyone thinks the best ECL 0-2 race is for a straight monk and why??
Staciaholi 04-10-07, 03:10 AM	I think the Winged template would be a nice choice, from Savage Species, applied to any ECL-0 race. It's got some nice perks, and is only +2 LA. Among the bonuses, besides flight, are +4 dex (for your AC and perhaps finessing fists) and +2 Wis for AC. Hope this helps.
JulesCARV 04-10-07, 03:22 AM	Spikers from the Planar Handbook (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040706a) look good. Warforged from the Eberron Campaign Setting are also good if they can get a battlefist, in spite of their wisdom penalty.
Steely_Dan 04-10-07, 04:22 AM	-Aasimar (Wis +2, energy resistances) -Githzerai (+6 Dex, psi-like abilities) -Buoman (+2 Wis and some other goodies I can’t remember) -Half-Orc (Good Str based monk) -Anthropomorphic Bat (+6 Wis, fat for a Stunning Fister monk)
The_Shaman 04-10-07, 04:37 AM	Githzerai get a wisdom bonus, too, and their psi-likes are golden for monks.
Orchomenos 04-10-07, 09:14 AM	Spikers from the Planar Handbook (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040706a) look good. Warforged from the Eberron Campaign Setting are also good if they can get a battlefist, in spite of their wisdom penalty. Spikers have this traits (amongst other): Damage reduction 2/bludgeoning: A spiker's spiny skin grants resistance to bludgeoning attacks, though piercing or slashing attacks slip through normally. Shouldn't it be DR2/Piercing or Slashing? Catfolks aren't bad. +4 DEX, +1 Natural Armor, 40' base movement for +1 LA. Kobolds could be decent finesse monks. Small size, +2 DEX, +1 Natural armor for a total of +3 AC, 30' movement. Lizardfolks could be good. +5 Natural Armor, 3 Natural Attacks (as per the rules, you can use the bite and 1 claw in addition to your Flurry of Blow, but many house-ruled that you can use both claws.)
CommanderFalken 04-10-07, 09:16 AM	I'm suprised nobody's mentioned it yet... Non-psionic Thri-kreen.
Steely_Dan 04-10-07, 09:22 AM	I'm suprised nobody's mentioned it yet... Non-psionic Thri-kreen. Totally: 18th level thri-kreen monk (2 monstrous humanoid HD) with Greater Multi-Weapon Fighting, Multiattack and a 10 Str: Full Attack: Flurry of blows +13/+13/+13/+8/+3 and unarmed strike +13/+8/+3 and unarmed strike +13/+8/+3 and unarmed strike +13/+8/+3 and 4 claws +13 each and bite +13 19 attacks per round.
The_Shaman 04-10-07, 10:01 AM	That is kinda weird though - is it legal to do several unarmed attack sequences and then attack with the claws? It's like a half-dragon monk doing his full TWF routine and then attacking with claws and a bite.
AMGriffin 04-10-07, 10:09 AM	Half-ogre. Large size=More damage and reach.
EvilVegan 04-10-07, 10:19 AM	Firebreathing Changeling monk/warshaper. http://cscentrl.com/Dhalsim_standpunch_strong.gif
Enderlaand 04-10-07, 10:21 AM	Um... Needs to be said. The best race for any class in Human.
Steely_Dan 04-10-07, 10:33 AM	That is kinda weird though - is it legal to do several unarmed attack sequences and then attack with the claws? According to the latest RotG article, my thri-kreen build is perfectly legal. Remember, unarmed strikes can be fists, feet, elbows, kicks, head-butts etc. Fear the dreaded Flurry of Buttocks!
3DJutsu 04-10-07, 10:36 AM	Firebreathing Changeling monk/warshaper. http://cscentrl.com/Dhalsim_standpunch_strong.gif Haha, this one wins. But my vote is also for a Half-Orc Monk, but thats just my personal flavor.
The_Shaman 04-10-07, 11:19 AM	According to the latest RotG article, my thri-kreen build is perfectly legal. Remember, unarmed strikes can be fists, feet, elbows, kicks, head-butts etc. Fear the dreaded Flurry of Buttocks! The first sequence okay, but the later ones are because of your extra limbs. RotG is what, anyway? Races of the..?
obrysii 04-10-07, 11:22 AM	Merfolk make pretty good monks, and the monk's increase in move speed helps out a lot.
Steely_Dan 04-10-07, 11:22 AM	RotG is what, anyway? Rules of the Game by Skip Williams on the WotC site. The 3.5 FAQ also supports the build.
JulesCARV 04-10-07, 09:17 PM	Spikers have this traits (amongst other): Damage reduction 2/bludgeoning: A spiker's spiny skin grants resistance to bludgeoning attacks, though piercing or slashing attacks slip through normally. Shouldn't it be DR2/Piercing or Slashing? Yeah, it's confusing. I suppose the solution is "ask your DM whether you have DR/bludgeoning or DR/slashing and piercing." Either one is cool. I think a spiker would be a pretty good monk regardless :).
Captain_Kobold 04-12-07, 12:15 AM	Totally: 18th level thri-kreen monk (2 monstrous humanoid HD) with Greater Multi-Weapon Fighting, Multiattack and a 10 Str: Full Attack: Flurry of blows +13/+13/+13/+8/+3 and unarmed strike +13/+8/+3 and unarmed strike +13/+8/+3 and unarmed strike +13/+8/+3 and 4 claws +13 each and bite +13 19 attacks per round. Something feels skewy about this, but not knowing exactly what the Multi weapon fighting feat tree does, I can't pin it down. I assume that its strength is actually above 10 in practice? 19 attacks still seems odd. Even though we're talking about an Epic, 22nd level character here aren't we?
bobothechimp 04-12-07, 12:24 AM	ECL 21, I think. Nonpsionic thri-keen have 2 monstrous humanoid HD and +1 LA. I never did understand how all those attacks work, and how to find the number and attack bonus In my opinion, for a monk, the best race is the biggest. More powerful unarmed attacks, higher speed, larger reach, better grapple check.
Steely_Dan 04-12-07, 02:49 AM	I assume that its strength is actually above 10 in practice? 19 attacks still seems odd. Even though we're talking about an Epic, 22nd level character here aren't we? No that's with a 10 Str – he has BAB +15 (from 18 monk HD/levels and 2 Monstrous Humanoid HD/levels), –2 for Multi-Weapon Fighting to his flurry and off-hand attacks (total +13), and –2 from Multiattack with his natural weapons as secondary attacks (total +13). The key is you can make off-hand, and natural attacks in addition to a flurry. And unarmed strikes can be made with fists, kicks, elbows, knees, head-butts…buttocks etc. And he's not Epic. He chose LA buy-off, so the character is ECL 20 (18 monk HD/levels and 2 Monstrous Humanoid HD/levels).
Zaistars69 04-12-07, 11:56 AM	Unarmed strikes (as per the SRD) are made with punch, kick, headbut so that's five possible limbs for a human. the monk class adds knees and elbows. Now with the thrikreen you have to ignore the claws (hands) in this because you are going to be using those for the claw attacks. Also the headbut can't be used because you are biting. So you have four elbows, two knees, and two feet (although I'd rule you can't kick someone and knee them in the same round). So you can do (without my rule) up to four elbows (flurry plus the three unarmed) then get your four claws, and the bite. so yea technically as long as you are a monk this works fine. Sick.
teshen 04-12-07, 03:31 PM	Unarmed strikes (as per the SRD) are made with punch, kick, headbut so that's five possible limbs for a human. the monk class adds knees and elbows. Unarmed strike is all the same. You can knee or kick somebody without martial training... it just won't be as effective, and in D&D this means provoking an attack of opportunity without Improved Unarmed Strike or some form of natural attacks... (That seems to mean if you have some form of natural attack and you make an unarmed strike without the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you still provoke no AoO since you are still armed... Is this accurate?) . . .Also the headbut can't be used because you are biting. So you have four elbows, two knees, and two feet (although I'd rule you can't kick someone and knee them in the same round). So you can do (without my rule) up to four elbows (flurry plus the three unarmed) then get your four claws, and the bite. so yea technically as long as you are a monk this works fine. Sick. Actually, a human can even knee and kick in the same motion... But yeah, most of the natural attack/improved unarmed strike/two weapon builds make my brain hurt... :twitch:
Zaistars69 04-12-07, 03:39 PM	Unarmed strike is all the same. You can knee or kick somebody without martial training... it just won't be as effective, and in D&D this means provoking an attack of opportunity without Improved Unarmed Strike or some form of natural attacks... That's what I said [QUOTE=teshen;12073894] (That seems to mean if you have some form of natural attack and you make an unarmed strike without the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you still provoke no AoO since you are still armed... Is this accurate?) QUOTE] I would say no. If you have claws and instead ballup your fist and punch someone or kick them it is unarmed and therefore provokes. At least from my reading. It is only he natural attack that doesn't provoke.