Post/Author/DateTime	Post
StalkerEntreri 07-28-07, 03:27 AM	It says it in the title, anyone know of any that aren't evil?
Lionhearted 07-28-07, 08:36 AM	human, halfling, dwarf, gnome, elf LA is bane for casters ;)
vegetalss4 07-28-07, 08:39 AM	the deep imaskar it is somewhere on wizards homepage and it got no la and a +2 to int
Kedami 07-28-07, 10:51 AM	Planetouched: Tiefling It has a +1 LA Although not good in flavour, it does say that some strive to go beyond their fiendish ancestry. From the point of veiw of game mechanics: +2 INT.
Asra 07-28-07, 11:36 AM	Well if you're using Unearthed Arcana, a 1-3 LA might be pretty good if you're using the buy-off rules. Off the top of my head though, I think Tiefling is one of the better ones that aren't invariably evil... I'll have to look over them and get back to you.
StalkerEntreri 07-28-07, 02:27 PM	Well the way it is is my DM is allowing any race with less than +3 level adjustment without having to actually do anything, otherwise I wouldn't be a spellcaster with level adjustment
DwarfPcfan 07-28-07, 05:48 PM	The best wizard races for flavor are dwarf, gnome, and elf. seriously any of those races make awesome wizards. Playing any of these proves fun as can be hoped I also propose these as a a few mechanically powerful wizard (based on campaign world answer: -Thinker Gnome (Dragonlance Campaign setting): -2 str,+2 dex,+2 int,-2 wis; small size, assorted bonuses. LA +0 -Grey elf: -2 str, +2 dex, -2 con, elven bonuses. LA +0 -Sun Elf (FR Campaign setting): +2 int, -2 con, assorted elven related bonuses, LA +0 -Qualinesti elf (Dragonlance campaign setting) +2 dex, -2 con, +2 int, -2 cha, assorted elven related bonuses, LA +0 -Deep Imaskar, +2 int, -2 dex, assorted bonuses, LA +0 Generally speaking, however, yes elves prove once and ever their power as wizards. First as the racial substitution for wizards in Races of the Wild (best wizard substitution, period). The Aereni arcanist feat from Player's guide to Eberron, etc. Equal measure is granted to gnomes for the suit of ways and options they offer in their own splat books. Especially thanks to races of stone and a few PrC. For combat heavy wizards dwarves once again prove that as far as LA +0 races go, they with humans are King of the Hill. seriously, jus try some of my favorite wizard builds: -Grey elf wizard 5/Mage of the Arcane Order10/Archmage5. Absolutely donot forget to take the first level of the elf wizard racial substitution. As well, Aereni Arcanist, Spell casting prodigy are amongts your best options. I call this build "All knower" -Rock Gnome illusionist3/Master Specialist10/Shadow Craft mage7. Can you say illusions rock... -Hill dwarf fighter1/wizard4/Rune Smith5/eldritch knight10: Caster level 18, BAB+15, Full Plate and Tower Shield Without ANY arcane spell failure. War wizard terror! Have fun
Lawlicron 07-28-07, 06:11 PM	Even though it doesn't have a bonus to int, Svirfneblin. They have alot of bonuses that a wizard would benefit from. The only thing they lack is a bonus to int but they are LA+3.
DarkPawn 07-28-07, 06:12 PM	It says it in the title, anyone know of any that aren't evil? Personally I'd say warforged. You can either take a feat to be unarmored or just spend some starting cash for "twilight" enchantment on your composite plating. You get -2 charisma and wisdom but +2 constitution (nice for low hit point class). You get light fortification 25% (chance immune to sneak attacks and criticals). You also can later on (+6 BAB) spend one feat to be completely immune to sneak attacks and criticals. This at the cost of giving up 50% reduced heal spells (heal spells were healing you at 50% strength, now they don't work). Learn to cast repair damage spells (which you can) and you can be your own healer. Immunity to energy drain is nice, as is immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, and effects that cause the sickened condition. I think having a wizard that has the potential to be immune to everything they can be as a warforged fills a lot of the inherent weaknesses of a wizard. Everyone is going to have their own reason though for why they think this or that race is better. They will all have valid points because many races can be great, depending on build.
DarkPawn 07-28-07, 06:16 PM	Well the way it is is my DM is allowing any race with less than +3 level adjustment without having to actually do anything, otherwise I wouldn't be a spellcaster with level adjustment So let me get this straight, if you pick a race with +3 or less LA, you basically just ignore the LA is what you're saying right? Meaning if you start as a 7th level wizard, and have a LA+3, you ignore it and are just a 7th level wizard?
Lawlicron 07-28-07, 06:26 PM	So let me get this straight, if you pick a race with +3 or less LA, you basically just ignore the LA is what you're saying right? Meaning if you start as a 7th level wizard, and have a LA+3, you ignore it and are just a 7th level wizard? I think thats what he means.
DarkPawn 07-28-07, 08:15 PM	I think thats what he means. Hmm....if that is the case, then I might just go with Drow.
Lawlicron 07-28-07, 08:47 PM	Hmm....if that is the case, then I might just go with Drow. OP said non-evil.
AZNsupermarket 07-28-07, 09:03 PM	Best Wizard Race Handbook
Polaris 07-28-07, 10:52 PM	It says it in the title, anyone know of any that aren't evil? Grey-Elf is probably the best overall race for a wizard especially post-Races of the Wild. You will find the Grey-Elf in the MM1. He is LA+0 and has -2 to Str and Con, but +2 to Dex and +2 to Int (one of the very few LA+0 races that gives you this). The Con penalty is painful but more than made up by the Dex bonus....and you get those lovely Elven abilities and Elven wizard substitution levels. If you DM is dumb enough to allow it, Dragonblooded Grey-Elf is even better since that elminates the Con penalty (but unfortunately also the Dex bonus). However, what's left is -2 Str, and +2 Int which is a no brainer for a wizard....all for the low, low price of LA+0. -Polaris
DarkPawn 07-28-07, 11:53 PM	OP said non-evil. Oh I assumed since the Drizzt Do'urden fanboi craze, all adventuring drow were good. ;) My bad.
AZNsupermarket 07-29-07, 12:00 AM	Grey-Elf is probably the best overall race for a wizard especially post-Races of the Wild. You will find the Grey-Elf in the MM1. He is LA+1 and has -2 to Str and Con, but +2 to Dex and +2 to Int (one of the very few LA+0 races that gives you this). The Con penalty is painful but more than made up by the Dex bonus....and you get those lovely Elven abilities and Elven wizard substitution levels. If you DM is dumb enough to allow it, Dragonblooded Grey-Elf is even better since that elminates the Con penalty (but unfortunately also the Dex bonus). However, what's left is -2 Str, and +2 Int which is a no brainer for a wizard....all for the low, low price of LA+0. -Polaris Dragonborn Grey Elf (found in races of dragon) - to prevent confusion.
StalkerEntreri 07-29-07, 12:03 AM	I thank everyone for all the advice and suggestions; but I notice that many of you seem to think that less than 3 includes 3
Polaris 07-29-07, 12:15 AM	Dragonborn Grey Elf (found in races of dragon) - to prevent confusion. Sorry, my bad. I meant Dragonborn Grey Elf (-2 Str, +2 Int), LA+0. -Polaris
AZNsupermarket 07-29-07, 12:23 AM	Sorry, my bad. I meant Dragonborn Grey Elf (-2 Str, +2 Int), LA+0. -Polaris I remember when I first discovered this mix; all I could do was wonder at what the game designers were thinking.
Polaris 07-29-07, 12:27 AM	I remember when I first discovered this mix; all I could do was wonder at what the game designers were thinking. No kidding. You and me both! I sometimes think recreational substances might be involved, but that's sheer speculation on my part. -Polaris
penchant 07-29-07, 12:28 AM	I've been recommending Petal (MM3) alot lately. Its a +2 LA tiny flying race with +4 INT, +8 CHA, +4 CON, +10 Dex and a -8 Penalty to STR. If nothing else this makes it a killer spell caster, if you can get over being a fairy. This is a great candidate for an Ultimate Magus since the bonuses to INT and CHA are quite generous. The SLA's are not very useful, but they do have DR. Petal.
Polaris 07-29-07, 12:32 AM	I've been recommending Petal (MM3) alot lately. Its a +2 LA tiny flying race with +4 INT, +8 CHA, +4 CON, +10 Dex and a -8 Penalty to STR. If nothing else this makes it a killer spell caster, if you can get over being a fairy. This is a great candidate for an Ultimate Magus since the bonuses to INT and CHA are quite generous. The SLA's are not very useful, but they do have DR. Petal. I'm not so sure...at least for a pure caster. That LA+2 is just so, very, very, very, very painful. It seems to me that this race (and the Pixie) make better rogues or Arcane Trickers. LA+2 doesn't sound like much, but it means that you are always one spell level behind the LA+0 caster with everything that implies. -Polaris
AZNsupermarket 07-29-07, 03:09 AM	No kidding. You and me both! I sometimes think recreational substances might be involved, but that's sheer speculation on my part. -Polaris At least it's not as bad as "lesser" aasimars, "lesser" tieflings, anthromorphic creatures, muckdwellers, or the jermlaine. Even thinking about those races makes me feel sick. :(
DrRufio 07-29-07, 10:56 AM	I'm not so sure...at least for a pure caster. That LA+2 is just so, very, very, very, very painful. It seems to me that this race (and the Pixie) make better rogues or Arcane Trickers. LA+2 doesn't sound like much, but it means that you are always one spell level behind the LA+0 caster with everything that implies. -Polaris Yeah, but the original poster said that he could have up to a +3 LA with no penalty. Petal would work very well in that situation. The problem this the petal is if you ever get hit with a strength draining poison, good luck being able to move, other than that it works great.
penchant 07-29-07, 06:24 PM	I'm not so sure...at least for a pure caster. That LA+2 is just so, very, very, very, very painful. It seems to me that this race (and the Pixie) make better rogues or Arcane Trickers. LA+2 doesn't sound like much, but it means that you are always one spell level behind the LA+0 caster with everything that implies. -Polaris I see alot of people afraid of the LA for casters and it does have an effect on the highest level of spell known. However the stat bonuses more than make up for it in the save DC's and help to make up in spells per day with bonus spells. The innate fly (what wizard doesn't use fly?) and extra bonues to the armor class (+5 from dex and +2 from tiny, +7 total) really help a character survive and unlike other caster races this one does not have a Con penalty. Carried gear is very limited but most worn wondrous items don't have a weight and a primary caster just does not need that much in the way of tools. I just don't see an issue normally, and in this case the DM is giving the LA for free.
Polaris 07-29-07, 06:38 PM	I see alot of people afraid of the LA for casters and it does have an effect on the highest level of spell known. However the stat bonuses more than make up for it in the save DC's and help to make up in spells per day with bonus spells. The innate fly (what wizard doesn't use fly?) and extra bonues to the armor class (+5 from dex and +2 from tiny, +7 total) really help a character survive and unlike other caster races this one does not have a Con penalty. Carried gear is very limited but most worn wondrous items don't have a weight and a primary caster just does not need that much in the way of tools. I just don't see an issue normally, and in this case the DM is giving the LA for free. I disagree. It's true that you will have a net +1 gain in DCs if you compare the highest level spells cast by both the Petal and by an LA+0 caster...but that's assuming that the LA+0 caster doesn't also have an Int bonus (which I personally think is a bad idea, but such animals do exist). The same applies to bonus spells only more so. Losing two levels in spell progression looses you far more than the +4 Int will ever make up for not only in highest spells known (which are most important), but also in total number of spells. In addition to that, you lose two caster levels, which no feat or class ability ever makes up for because you also are losing maximum hit dice. It also means that it's harder to do spellcraft checks and cast defensively because your maximum skill ranks are lower (and your saves will be worse). Finally, while it's true the Petal doesn't have a con penalty, you are losing two hit-dice. The Con bonus only makes up for one of those two lost hit-dice (and again that's assuming the LA+0 race doesn't have a Con bonus itself). No. I just can't recommend the Petal as a solid full caster. If you want to talk about Arcane-Trickster types, that's another issue entirely.... -Polaris
Gabriel Knight52 07-29-07, 06:52 PM	Spellwarped Vanara, STR+2, DEX+2, INT+6, WIS+2, CON+4, LVL+3 (Spellwarped Template, MM3 p.162) (Vanara Race, Oriental Adventures p.15) Voidmind Chitine, STR+4, DEX+4,INT+4, CON+4, CHA-6, LVL+3 (Voidmind Template, MM3 p.188) (Chitines, Underdark p.7) Avariel, DEX+4, INT+2,WIS+2,CON-2,LVL+3 (Races of Faerūn p.31) Fey'ri (v.2), DEX+2, INT+2, CON-2, LVL+3 (Races of Faerūn p.118)
Polaris 07-29-07, 07:05 PM	Spellwarped Vanara, STR+2, DEX+2, INT+6, WIS+2, CON+4, LVL+3 (Spellwarped Template, MM3 p.162) (Vanara Race, Oriental Adventures p.15) The Vanara were errataed for 3.5 in Dragon Magazine. They no longer have attribute modifiers. This is little known because IIRC WOTC lost the AEG Rokugen license shortly thereafter. -Polaris
Gabriel Knight52 07-29-07, 07:49 PM	The Vanara were errataed for 3.5 in Dragon Magazine. They no longer have attribute modifiers. This is little known because IIRC WOTC lost the AEG Rokugen license shortly thereafter. -Polaris What does IIRCWOTC stand for? What was the AEG Rokugen license? Why did this mean they had to change the stats for the Vanara? Spellwarped Aelfborn, STR+4, DEX+4, INT+6,WIS-2, CON+2,LVL+3 Spellwarped Deep Imaskari, STR+4, INT+6,CON+4, LVL+3 (Spellwarped Template, MM3 p.162) (Aelfborn Race, Dragon #307 p.67) (Deep Imaskari, Underdark p.9)
Dog_O_War 07-29-07, 08:36 PM	I wouldn't put too much thought into this OP, if I were you. Sounds like a bad DM decision that won't have the characters last that long - which makes it hardly worth the effort. Sometimes power just isn't what it's cracked up to be. Also, what makes the best wizard is not the int score; a 19 int allows you to cast all the spells. Lasting long enough in a fight to cast your last spell is what makes a good wizard, as does your spell choice. Warforged are definately an excellent choice because you can heal yourself with wizard spells, they have a con bonus (which is paramount as it gives you precious hit points and a better fort save), and a partial critical immunity gives you yet another edge in avoiding damage.
DarkPawn 07-29-07, 09:26 PM	I wouldn't put too much thought into this OP, if I were you. Sounds like a bad DM decision that won't have the characters last that long - which makes it hardly worth the effort. Sometimes power just isn't what it's cracked up to be. Also, what makes the best wizard is not the int score; a 19 int allows you to cast all the spells. Lasting long enough in a fight to cast your last spell is what makes a good wizard, as does your spell choice. Warforged are definately an excellent choice because you can heal yourself with wizard spells, they have a con bonus (which is paramount as it gives you precious hit points and a better fort save), and a partial critical immunity gives you yet another edge in avoiding damage. Agreed, and at level 12 (or +6 BAB) you really must snag Improved Fortification. Immunity to sneak attacks and criticals is just huge for anyone that can heal themselves with repair damage spells. Also, warforged components are just amazing. You can basically make any magical item into a warforged component. The nice thing is you can't remove them unless you're incapacitated. I strongly recommend a wand sheath and wand of teleport or dimension door as soon as you can afford one of them.
Shadow Weaver 07-30-07, 07:43 AM	[LIST] What does IIRCWOTC stand for? What was the AEG Rokugen license? Why did this mean they had to change the stats for the Vanara? 1) if I remember correctly, Wizards of the Coast 2) Rokugan was the campaign setting included in Oriental Adventures. The setting belongs to Alderac Entertainment Group and is found in Legend of the Five Rings. 3) I have no idea. It's probably the hard to find issue of Dragon that converted Oriental Adventures to 3.5.
The_Shaman 07-30-07, 09:46 AM	I think the Half-fey from Fiend Folio might be worth your time, ideally you could use the draconic or dragonborn template to get rid of the constitution penalty. Still, even by RaW they are a race with a plethora of racial abilities - from DR to flight speed - practical immunity to one of the schools of magic (enchantment), some useful spell-like abilities to help you get out of situations you are not prepared for, and a subtype that renders you resistant to quite a few tricky low-level spells. Oh, and racial bonuses to nearly all attributes except strength and constitution. Could be way worse, imo.
snakeman830 07-30-07, 10:05 AM	I'm surprised nobody has posted human half-dragon. The half-dragon template covers a lot of the weaknesses of wizards (low AC, low hp, poor combat ability, etc.) and being a human is never your worst choice. Plus, the half-dragon comes with a useful Intelligence boost.
hjones 07-30-07, 10:33 AM	I agree, Half-Dragon is a great race, I played one that was a Wizard before and I would recommend it.
zook1shoe666 07-30-07, 11:35 AM	no one has suggested the uber crazy venable Dragonwrought Kobold, just add a couple templates to increase the LA to +3.... and things get UGLY!!! i also agree with the Petal :-D
penchant 07-30-07, 02:21 PM	I disagree. It's true that you will have a net +1 gain in DCs if you compare the highest level spells cast by both the Petal and by an LA+0 caster...but that's assuming that the LA+0 caster doesn't also have an Int bonus (which I personally think is a bad idea, but such animals do exist). The same applies to bonus spells only more so. Losing two levels in spell progression looses you far more than the +4 Int will ever make up for not only in highest spells known (which are most important), but also in total number of spells. In addition to that, you lose two caster levels, which no feat or class ability ever makes up for because you also are losing maximum hit dice. It also means that it's harder to do spellcraft checks and cast defensively because your maximum skill ranks are lower (and your saves will be worse). Finally, while it's true the Petal doesn't have a con penalty, you are losing two hit-dice. The Con bonus only makes up for one of those two lost hit-dice (and again that's assuming the LA+0 race doesn't have a Con bonus itself). -Polaris Of course if you begin to talk spontaneous caster, then the Cha bonus of the Petal is even better. It becomes a net +3 to DC's against a human sorcerer. The hit point problem is a big one. And one that can be lethal. However, as I pointed out the net +7 to AC (even touch) will level out the survivability, and the Net +5 to reflex saves will significantly reduce the area damage spells. Grappling and any melee is even more out of the picture for a petal, but that shouldn't be much of a consideration. Its not an easy build to play and frought with danger, but most full casters are anyway. The best point you make is about the max ranks for skills. That can be a problem. All I can say to that is to use work arounds. I should say that a petal is not a better choice than a LA+0 race, but that is what level adjustment is all about. A Petal Enchanter with the elevated save DC's would be harsh, you have to admit. A Petal Sorcerer with an enchantment / illusion focus would rule. I wouldn't put too much thought into this OP, if I were you. Sounds like a bad DM decision that won't have the characters last that long - which makes it hardly worth the effort. Sometimes power just isn't what it's cracked up to be. Also, what makes the best wizard is not the int score; a 19 int allows you to cast all the spells. Lasting long enough in a fight to cast your last spell is what makes a good wizard, as does your spell choice. Warforged are definately an excellent choice because you can heal yourself with wizard spells, they have a con bonus (which is paramount as it gives you precious hit points and a better fort save), and a partial critical immunity gives you yet another edge in avoiding damage. the heal yourself with arcane spells is a REALLY good point. Convince your DM to let you apply a +2 LA template to a warforged and rock n roll.
Polaris 07-30-07, 02:48 PM	Penchant, Here's the thing about the Petal and spell DCs. It's true that a +4 Int gives +2 DC to all spells. However, the fact it's an LA+2 race means that the highest level spell he can use is one less, which means for your best save-or-die spell, your effective DC advantage is only one over an LA+0 race with no Int bonus. When compared with an LA+0 race with an Int bonus, the advantage disappears. -Polaris
Aragorn_Blackwood 07-30-07, 03:33 PM	It says it in the title, anyone know of any that aren't evil? Definetly Gray elf and it doesn't have a level adjusment so it's bonus to +2 dex and +2 int makes him superb wizard... if you don't mind -2 str -2 con .. ;) Drow(lvl adj+2) also makes capable spellcaster ...and has good defense against it... But I wound judge in favour of gray elf, no level adj, high int everything good wizard needs... If you don't like elves, you cannot miss with humans with whatever class you play ;)
penchant 07-30-07, 05:35 PM	Check again. While I had dropped a response, I edited it immediatly when I had read what I had written. And while the petal is only a marginal wizard, as I point out it is an excellent spontanous caster. Now germaine to the OP, the petal is great since he will not have to be paying for the LA and so is lacking none of the hit dice, and still benefits from a full +2 to save DC's from its intelligent bonus. however in any other game the petal will likely be used for a cha based caster. So what is your opinion on a net +3 to save DC's over an equivalent ECL caster? And still with the +7 to AC, and the free fly, and the extra skill points (though lower max). Do you read my whole posts or just stop at the parts you disagree with?