best rouge? [Archive] - Wizards Community

best rouge? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
NHBDY
05-24-07, 04:12 PM I was going to play a rouge, which race would be best? I have PHB DMG MM EPH ECS CompArc and Dragon Magic
Loki5654
05-24-07, 04:21 PM I prefer Mabelline, but Cover Girl is also nice.

R-O-U-G-E = Makeup

R-O-G-U-E = Thief, scoundrel, cad

As for race, it depends on the type of rogue you want to play.
obrysii
05-24-07, 04:22 PM Well, any race can benefit from rouge.

If you're talking about rogues, then I'd have to say Whisper Gnomes if you're going the sneaky-thief rogue.
Mindolin
05-24-07, 04:22 PM The best for a ROGUE is hard to determine. Halflings are good because of small size, thus including a bonus to hide and better AC and attacks. The lessened damage is outweighed by the sneak attack, and the bonus to DEX always helps.

Humans also make good skill monkeys, based on the fact that they get the extra skill point. The bonus feat also makes it easier to get feats such as Point Blank Shot or Two Weapon Fighting to make a good combat rogue.

Elves are good as well because of the bonus to Dex, and the immunity to sleep. The bow and weapon prof aids in getting a good weapon, which helps with the rogue.
WolfHati
05-24-07, 04:23 PM Mary Kay.

But if you meant rogue instead of rouge, then I'd have to go with halflings. They've got a lot of nice bonuses to thiefy type skills, good saves, and other nice things. And since most damage you do will be from sneak attacking, the small size is more of a benefit (+1 to hit) than a disadvantage.
Nat_20
05-24-07, 04:34 PM thri-kreen with multi-weapon fighting quadruple wielding Rapiers!!!!!! X4 SNEAK ATTACK!!!!!
equilibrium17
05-24-07, 04:42 PM Whisper Gnomes have a lot to offer, too -- +2 to Dex and Con, Small Size, but w/ 30' speed, good SLAs, Racial Bonus to MS and Hide check, etc. Favored class, too.

Major drawback is the -2 CHA penalty; Bluff is a very important skill for Rogues. . . but there are ways to get your Sneak Attacks in, other than bluffing.
AMGriffin
05-24-07, 06:10 PM Whisper Gnomes are the best rogues.

They're also hideously broken :)
SilverFoxKnows
05-24-07, 07:47 PM Goblins. 30 move, darkvision, +4 racial modifier to Move Silently, favored class:Rogue.
AMGriffin
05-24-07, 07:55 PM ^Whisper Gnome gives you ALL of that and more.
Rerecros
05-24-07, 08:08 PM Changelings if you like social rogues, kenku if you like combat rogues.
Grizzled Gryphon
05-24-07, 08:11 PM Whisper Gnomes are the best rogues.

They're also hideously broken :)

And, if they have the disguise skill, then they can make the best use of rouge.
Peregrine_Wolf
05-24-07, 08:13 PM I don't know much about make-up, but I know quite a bit about Rogues...

Personally, I don't like using broken characters. I can make one, I just prefer not to.

But, that aside, I say either Halfling or Elf. If you want a more combat oriented Rogue, then take a level in something with knowledge religion and take Champion of Corellon Larethian in Races of the Wild. Lot's of bonuses for dexterous characters.
The_Shaman
05-24-07, 08:19 PM For rouges, I guess changeling... They practically have it inbuilt already.

For rogues... Maybe halflings, the strongheart halflings aren't exactly bad. Humans and some elves can also be handy. I wonder if goblins can't make very decent rogues, too - small, dex bonus, although for PCs I might take away the charisma penalty or give them a small wisdom bonus - they are careful, canny blighters.
YabaTheWhat
05-24-07, 08:26 PM PHB DMG MM EPH ECS CompArc DragonMagic Going from the books you've got (of which only PHB & MM list races to my knowledge), the goblin makes a pretty solid rogue. Kobolds and halflings are also good. Tieflings can be fun rogues as well, if you don't mind a small level adjustment.

Whisper gnomes are in RoS. Catfolk are in RoW. Changelings are in MM3 and Eberron. (Does ECS stand for Eberron Campaign Setting?) All of these make powerful rogues, each in their own way.

I don't wear makeup, so I can't help you with rouge.
happy_fuzzy
05-24-07, 08:45 PM If you start above level 5 I luv naztharene rakshasas I mean basically all you're losing is sneak attack damage, but you get crazy dex bonus, improved evasion, improved uncanny dodge, etc. etc. Sadly they are in MM3.

But if its low level i like goblins or kobolds
JulesCARV
05-24-07, 08:50 PM Whisper Gnomes are from Races of Stone, which NHBDY did not list as being among his sources.

If you want a searcher/trap-disarmer type rogue, grey elf could be pretty good. Intelligence bonus for search/DD checks, and automatic search checks if you pass by a secret door.

Changelings are fun. They're not mechanically super-powerful, but being able to look like anyone is cool nonetheless.

Warforged are an untraditional option, but if you make a warforged rogue and focus on listen and spot, then your party will have someone who can stay up all night and keep watch.

Xephs... are fine. Nothing super-special, but +2 dex, burst, and darkvision are nice. If you want to play a psionic character, so that, for instance, you could pick up up the walls or the like without worrying about taking a psionic class or Wild Talent, they could work.

Goblins, as have been mentioned, are a solid option.
Druid_of_the_storm
05-24-07, 09:01 PM here i was going to comment on the spelling and I've been beat again....a :cookie: for all that are anti-makeup

if you don't mind a lv adjustment.......dopplegangers are quite nice...but yeah....a whisper gnome is next best, then halfling and elf or human i guess....hell rogues can be anybody and do quite well
YabaTheWhat
05-24-07, 09:36 PM If you start above level 5 I luv naztharene rakshasas I mean basically all you're losing is sneak attack damage, but you get crazy dex bonus, improved evasion, improved uncanny dodge, etc. etc. Sadly they are in MM3. Actually he couldn't play a Naztharune Rakshasa until level 16. His first rogue level would be at character level 17.

ECL = LA+HD = LA+RHD+CLASS
[ECL = Effective Character Level]
[LA = Level Adjustment]
[HD = Hit Dice]
[RHD = Racial Hit Dice]
[CLASS = Class Levels]

On the other hand, pixies have no RHD, and even with their level adjustment, they make very powerful rogues.
Grizzled Gryphon
05-25-07, 01:14 AM Well, if you can get ahold of MMIII or the ECS(?), the Kenku makes a fine rogue. Especially if you can stack the vexing flanker feat with there great ally racial ability. Not too shabby.
cato
05-25-07, 04:29 AM strongheart halfling > ghostwise

same small bonuses +2 dex and an extra feat beats anything any day.. :p
calronmoonflower
05-25-07, 04:36 AM The race that you chose for your rogue depends on how you want to play your rogue.

If you like spying a tibbit from the Dragon Compendium would be a good choice.
YabaTheWhat
05-25-07, 09:24 AM Well, if you can get ahold of MMIII or the ECS(?), the Kenku makes a fine rogue. Especially if you can stack the vexing flanker feat with there great ally racial ability. Not too shabby. Kenku don't show up in ECS, only the MM3. However, they can also be found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040912b&page=4). They make good flanking rogues. I keep forgetting about them.
Evicmar
05-25-07, 10:11 AM Out of Fiend Folio Shadar Kai. The race actually has sneak attack dice built in and The stat mods are really nice for a rogue.
SilverFoxKnows
05-25-07, 12:08 PM ^Whisper Gnome gives you ALL of that and more.

Yeah, but I just don't care for Gnomes. More of a flavor preference.
Treymordin
05-25-07, 12:16 PM Kender!!
YabaTheWhat
05-25-07, 01:52 PM If you like spying a tibbit from the Dragon Compendium would be a good choice. If he had dragon compendium, he could also try out the dvati. There are downsides (mostly the need for a really high CON score), but a dvati can set up a flank all by himself.
Garonak
05-25-07, 02:18 PM A Draconic Grey Elf isn't that bad. +2 dex, int and cha. LA+1. And it's in the books you have.
Other than that: Go catfolk
Engilbrand
05-25-07, 03:46 PM I hate Kenku Rogues. They're such bastards.
RikuKupo
05-25-07, 07:32 PM Catfolk. The +1 LA gives you +4 dex, +2 cha, a small bonus to MS, and a +10 speed. That last bit helps a LOT more than you might think, trust me. Plus I have a speed fetish for my rogues. :P My favorite rogue of all time had an 80 ft speed, without touching the monk class. He could sneak faster than my group could walk... memories

Well this next one is not really a race... and I would put this as #1 if I didn't have a catgirl fetish :love: The dark template. +1 LA gives you +8 hide, +6 move silently, darkvision, cold resistance 10, hide in plain sight, and +10 ft speed. Tome of Magic doesn't get nearly enough love... :P
Treymordin
05-25-07, 10:37 PM Those cats seem like a pretty neat race. Has anyone played one?
snakeman830
05-26-07, 10:49 AM Catfolk. The +1 LA gives you +4 dex, +2 cha, a small bonus to MS, and a +10 speed. That last bit helps a LOT more than you might think, trust me. Plus I have a speed fetish for my rogues. :P My favorite rogue of all time had an 80 ft speed, without touching the monk class. He could sneak faster than my group could walk... memories

Well this next one is not really a race... and I would put this as #1 if I didn't have a catgirl fetish :love: The dark template. +1 LA gives you +8 hide, +6 move silently, darkvision, cold resistance 10, hide in plain sight, and +10 ft speed. Tome of Magic doesn't get nearly enough love... :P

Seconded Catflok. In my campaign, there is a catfolk rogue that absolutely ROCKS!!! She not only manages to do more damage in combat than the fighter, but she also gets more money than anyone else in the party. (Check the Funnies section, then "from my campaign" in my sig. She also picks pockets.)

As for the Dark template: I LOVE IT!!!!! My most stealthy character ever was a Dark halfling rogue 7/shadowsmith 3 and had +30 to hide and + 26 move silently WITH NO ITEMS!!!
obrysii
05-26-07, 11:01 AM The Duskpoison Lizardfolk would make a good rogue.
ishpu
05-26-07, 11:22 AM maybe bugbear? str bonus dex bonus con bonus
darkvision
racial hit dice
free feats
natural armor bonus
move silently bonus
favored class: rogue
all for lvl adj +1..... sounds like a winner.
snakeman830
05-26-07, 11:27 AM What free feats? They have 2 RHD!!! (and the enrty has them at one feat with no class levels).
jameswilliamogle
05-26-07, 11:38 AM lol... ok, i'm sure this has come up already... best rouge...

http://www.bewellstaywell.com/LOBlushcompact.jpg
RikuKupo
05-26-07, 11:51 AM Seconded Catflok. In my campaign, there is a catfolk rogue that absolutely ROCKS!!! She not only manages to do more damage in combat than the fighter, but she also gets more money than anyone else in the party. (Check the Funnies section, then "from my campaign" in my sig. She also picks pockets.)

As for the Dark template: I LOVE IT!!!!! My most stealthy character ever was a Dark halfling rogue 7/shadowsmith 3 and had +30 to hide and + 26 move silently WITH NO ITEMS!!!

Yes. :P Thank you fellow catfolk lover. They are one of the best LA+1 race in my opinion.
And as a side note about the Dark template... (whispers) Also in Tome of Magic there is a magic item that continuously gives you the dark template for only 22,000...
RikuKupo
05-26-07, 05:36 PM OMG I forgot the best part about catfolk! They get the single greatest feat for a TWF rogue of all time: catfolk pounce. Lets you make a full attack of you charge a flat footed opponet, so nice :P
Surreal
05-26-07, 05:59 PM For higher LA possibilities, the Skulk (Races of Destiny) is probably the best sneaky type you can get, and the Marrulurk (Sandstorm) is a very capable melee rogue.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NHBDY 05-24-07, 04:12 PM	I was going to play a rouge, which race would be best? I have PHB DMG MM EPH ECS CompArc and Dragon Magic
Loki5654 05-24-07, 04:21 PM	I prefer Mabelline, but Cover Girl is also nice. R-O-U-G-E = Makeup R-O-G-U-E = Thief, scoundrel, cad As for race, it depends on the type of rogue you want to play.
obrysii 05-24-07, 04:22 PM	Well, any race can benefit from rouge. If you're talking about rogues, then I'd have to say Whisper Gnomes if you're going the sneaky-thief rogue.
Mindolin 05-24-07, 04:22 PM	The best for a ROGUE is hard to determine. Halflings are good because of small size, thus including a bonus to hide and better AC and attacks. The lessened damage is outweighed by the sneak attack, and the bonus to DEX always helps. Humans also make good skill monkeys, based on the fact that they get the extra skill point. The bonus feat also makes it easier to get feats such as Point Blank Shot or Two Weapon Fighting to make a good combat rogue. Elves are good as well because of the bonus to Dex, and the immunity to sleep. The bow and weapon prof aids in getting a good weapon, which helps with the rogue.
WolfHati 05-24-07, 04:23 PM	Mary Kay. But if you meant rogue instead of rouge, then I'd have to go with halflings. They've got a lot of nice bonuses to thiefy type skills, good saves, and other nice things. And since most damage you do will be from sneak attacking, the small size is more of a benefit (+1 to hit) than a disadvantage.
Nat_20 05-24-07, 04:34 PM	thri-kreen with multi-weapon fighting quadruple wielding Rapiers!!!!!! X4 SNEAK ATTACK!!!!!
equilibrium17 05-24-07, 04:42 PM	Whisper Gnomes have a lot to offer, too -- +2 to Dex and Con, Small Size, but w/ 30' speed, good SLAs, Racial Bonus to MS and Hide check, etc. Favored class, too. Major drawback is the -2 CHA penalty; Bluff is a very important skill for Rogues. . . but there are ways to get your Sneak Attacks in, other than bluffing.
AMGriffin 05-24-07, 06:10 PM	Whisper Gnomes are the best rogues. They're also hideously broken :)
SilverFoxKnows 05-24-07, 07:47 PM	Goblins. 30 move, darkvision, +4 racial modifier to Move Silently, favored class:Rogue.
AMGriffin 05-24-07, 07:55 PM	^Whisper Gnome gives you ALL of that and more.
Rerecros 05-24-07, 08:08 PM	Changelings if you like social rogues, kenku if you like combat rogues.
Grizzled Gryphon 05-24-07, 08:11 PM	Whisper Gnomes are the best rogues. They're also hideously broken :) And, if they have the disguise skill, then they can make the best use of rouge.
Peregrine_Wolf 05-24-07, 08:13 PM	I don't know much about make-up, but I know quite a bit about Rogues... Personally, I don't like using broken characters. I can make one, I just prefer not to. But, that aside, I say either Halfling or Elf. If you want a more combat oriented Rogue, then take a level in something with knowledge religion and take Champion of Corellon Larethian in Races of the Wild. Lot's of bonuses for dexterous characters.
The_Shaman 05-24-07, 08:19 PM	For rouges, I guess changeling... They practically have it inbuilt already. For rogues... Maybe halflings, the strongheart halflings aren't exactly bad. Humans and some elves can also be handy. I wonder if goblins can't make very decent rogues, too - small, dex bonus, although for PCs I might take away the charisma penalty or give them a small wisdom bonus - they are careful, canny blighters.
YabaTheWhat 05-24-07, 08:26 PM	PHB DMG MM EPH ECS CompArc DragonMagic Going from the books you've got (of which only PHB & MM list races to my knowledge), the goblin makes a pretty solid rogue. Kobolds and halflings are also good. Tieflings can be fun rogues as well, if you don't mind a small level adjustment. Whisper gnomes are in RoS. Catfolk are in RoW. Changelings are in MM3 and Eberron. (Does ECS stand for Eberron Campaign Setting?) All of these make powerful rogues, each in their own way. I don't wear makeup, so I can't help you with rouge.
happy_fuzzy 05-24-07, 08:45 PM	If you start above level 5 I luv naztharene rakshasas I mean basically all you're losing is sneak attack damage, but you get crazy dex bonus, improved evasion, improved uncanny dodge, etc. etc. Sadly they are in MM3. But if its low level i like goblins or kobolds
JulesCARV 05-24-07, 08:50 PM	Whisper Gnomes are from Races of Stone, which NHBDY did not list as being among his sources. If you want a searcher/trap-disarmer type rogue, grey elf could be pretty good. Intelligence bonus for search/DD checks, and automatic search checks if you pass by a secret door. Changelings are fun. They're not mechanically super-powerful, but being able to look like anyone is cool nonetheless. Warforged are an untraditional option, but if you make a warforged rogue and focus on listen and spot, then your party will have someone who can stay up all night and keep watch. Xephs... are fine. Nothing super-special, but +2 dex, burst, and darkvision are nice. If you want to play a psionic character, so that, for instance, you could pick up up the walls or the like without worrying about taking a psionic class or Wild Talent, they could work. Goblins, as have been mentioned, are a solid option.
Druid_of_the_storm 05-24-07, 09:01 PM	here i was going to comment on the spelling and I've been beat again....a :cookie: for all that are anti-makeup if you don't mind a lv adjustment.......dopplegangers are quite nice...but yeah....a whisper gnome is next best, then halfling and elf or human i guess....hell rogues can be anybody and do quite well
YabaTheWhat 05-24-07, 09:36 PM	If you start above level 5 I luv naztharene rakshasas I mean basically all you're losing is sneak attack damage, but you get crazy dex bonus, improved evasion, improved uncanny dodge, etc. etc. Sadly they are in MM3. Actually he couldn't play a Naztharune Rakshasa until level 16. His first rogue level would be at character level 17. ECL = LA+HD = LA+RHD+CLASS [ECL = Effective Character Level] [LA = Level Adjustment] [HD = Hit Dice] [RHD = Racial Hit Dice] [CLASS = Class Levels] On the other hand, pixies have no RHD, and even with their level adjustment, they make very powerful rogues.
Grizzled Gryphon 05-25-07, 01:14 AM	Well, if you can get ahold of MMIII or the ECS(?), the Kenku makes a fine rogue. Especially if you can stack the vexing flanker feat with there great ally racial ability. Not too shabby.
cato 05-25-07, 04:29 AM	strongheart halfling > ghostwise same small bonuses +2 dex and an extra feat beats anything any day.. :p
calronmoonflower 05-25-07, 04:36 AM	The race that you chose for your rogue depends on how you want to play your rogue. If you like spying a tibbit from the Dragon Compendium would be a good choice.
YabaTheWhat 05-25-07, 09:24 AM	Well, if you can get ahold of MMIII or the ECS(?), the Kenku makes a fine rogue. Especially if you can stack the vexing flanker feat with there great ally racial ability. Not too shabby. Kenku don't show up in ECS, only the MM3. However, they can also be found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040912b&page=4). They make good flanking rogues. I keep forgetting about them.
Evicmar 05-25-07, 10:11 AM	Out of Fiend Folio Shadar Kai. The race actually has sneak attack dice built in and The stat mods are really nice for a rogue.
SilverFoxKnows 05-25-07, 12:08 PM	^Whisper Gnome gives you ALL of that and more. Yeah, but I just don't care for Gnomes. More of a flavor preference.
Treymordin 05-25-07, 12:16 PM	Kender!!
YabaTheWhat 05-25-07, 01:52 PM	If you like spying a tibbit from the Dragon Compendium would be a good choice. If he had dragon compendium, he could also try out the dvati. There are downsides (mostly the need for a really high CON score), but a dvati can set up a flank all by himself.
Garonak 05-25-07, 02:18 PM	A Draconic Grey Elf isn't that bad. +2 dex, int and cha. LA+1. And it's in the books you have. Other than that: Go catfolk
Engilbrand 05-25-07, 03:46 PM	I hate Kenku Rogues. They're such bastards.
RikuKupo 05-25-07, 07:32 PM	Catfolk. The +1 LA gives you +4 dex, +2 cha, a small bonus to MS, and a +10 speed. That last bit helps a LOT more than you might think, trust me. Plus I have a speed fetish for my rogues. :P My favorite rogue of all time had an 80 ft speed, without touching the monk class. He could sneak faster than my group could walk... memories Well this next one is not really a race... and I would put this as #1 if I didn't have a catgirl fetish :love: The dark template. +1 LA gives you +8 hide, +6 move silently, darkvision, cold resistance 10, hide in plain sight, and +10 ft speed. Tome of Magic doesn't get nearly enough love... :P
Treymordin 05-25-07, 10:37 PM	Those cats seem like a pretty neat race. Has anyone played one?
snakeman830 05-26-07, 10:49 AM	Catfolk. The +1 LA gives you +4 dex, +2 cha, a small bonus to MS, and a +10 speed. That last bit helps a LOT more than you might think, trust me. Plus I have a speed fetish for my rogues. :P My favorite rogue of all time had an 80 ft speed, without touching the monk class. He could sneak faster than my group could walk... memories Well this next one is not really a race... and I would put this as #1 if I didn't have a catgirl fetish :love: The dark template. +1 LA gives you +8 hide, +6 move silently, darkvision, cold resistance 10, hide in plain sight, and +10 ft speed. Tome of Magic doesn't get nearly enough love... :P Seconded Catflok. In my campaign, there is a catfolk rogue that absolutely ROCKS!!! She not only manages to do more damage in combat than the fighter, but she also gets more money than anyone else in the party. (Check the Funnies section, then "from my campaign" in my sig. She also picks pockets.) As for the Dark template: I LOVE IT!!!!! My most stealthy character ever was a Dark halfling rogue 7/shadowsmith 3 and had +30 to hide and + 26 move silently WITH NO ITEMS!!!
obrysii 05-26-07, 11:01 AM	The Duskpoison Lizardfolk would make a good rogue.
ishpu 05-26-07, 11:22 AM	maybe bugbear? str bonus dex bonus con bonus darkvision racial hit dice free feats natural armor bonus move silently bonus favored class: rogue all for lvl adj +1..... sounds like a winner.
snakeman830 05-26-07, 11:27 AM	What free feats? They have 2 RHD!!! (and the enrty has them at one feat with no class levels).
jameswilliamogle 05-26-07, 11:38 AM	lol... ok, i'm sure this has come up already... best rouge... http://www.bewellstaywell.com/LOBlushcompact.jpg
RikuKupo 05-26-07, 11:51 AM	Seconded Catflok. In my campaign, there is a catfolk rogue that absolutely ROCKS!!! She not only manages to do more damage in combat than the fighter, but she also gets more money than anyone else in the party. (Check the Funnies section, then "from my campaign" in my sig. She also picks pockets.) As for the Dark template: I LOVE IT!!!!! My most stealthy character ever was a Dark halfling rogue 7/shadowsmith 3 and had +30 to hide and + 26 move silently WITH NO ITEMS!!! Yes. :P Thank you fellow catfolk lover. They are one of the best LA+1 race in my opinion. And as a side note about the Dark template... (whispers) Also in Tome of Magic there is a magic item that continuously gives you the dark template for only 22,000...
RikuKupo 05-26-07, 05:36 PM	OMG I forgot the best part about catfolk! They get the single greatest feat for a TWF rogue of all time: catfolk pounce. Lets you make a full attack of you charge a flat footed opponet, so nice :P
Surreal 05-26-07, 05:59 PM	For higher LA possibilities, the Skulk (Races of Destiny) is probably the best sneaky type you can get, and the Marrulurk (Sandstorm) is a very capable melee rogue.