Better Race for a Cleric [Archive] - Wizards Community

Better Race for a Cleric [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Faithkeep
04-05-07, 06:55 AM What do you think would be a better race for a cleric?
Human or Dwarf?

I can't decide... :heehee
Azar_of_Faerun
04-05-07, 07:01 AM Equal

Human means get another feat, you can meet requirements for 2-3 feat pre-requisite feats earlier

Dwarf means your Cleric is even hardier than usual and his saves are REALLY good versus magic and poison.
Faithkeep
04-05-07, 07:08 AM Yeah I was thinking that but I needed to hear it from someone else. Don't know why... Thanks. :)

And when I choose a dwarf for a cleric... I feel like I just have to get warhammer proficiency. :D
tetebetson
04-05-07, 08:08 AM Raptorian
Dark elf Female
The_Shaman
04-05-07, 10:22 AM I think dwarf is better, although you could use some decent stats to compensate on the skill points. Think about the second racial substitution level (effectively WSpec with hammers) :) . Besides, you'll usually be wearing heavier armors anyway, so the speed penalty isn't much of an issue.
DwarfPcfan
04-05-07, 11:08 AM A well, the combat bonuses and save bonuses help in many situations
dwarves are good for both battle-cleric types and heavy divine casting types.

Try dwarf (gold or hill) cleric 5/Sovereign Speaker 10/Church Inquisitor5
for heavy casting,

Or cleric5/paladin3/Fist of Raziel10/Sacred Exorcist3 for a heavy melee cleric

Dwarves rule as clericsl...
Faithkeep
04-05-07, 12:02 PM I might just go full cleric. :) I love full clerics. :D
Remind me again what the level 2 racial substitution of dwarf clerics do?
RobbyPants
04-05-07, 12:05 PM They're both good races, but I'd go with dwarf.

As mentioned, the speed penalty is moot when you're in heavy armor anyway. The +2 to Con is always a nice thing. The only thing that sucks is the -2 Cha penalty, when you want to do some turning.
Warforged Goblin
04-05-07, 12:14 PM Look in Complete Divine for the Warpriest PrC and your mind will be made up.
Faithkeep
04-05-07, 12:17 PM Look in Complete Divine for the Warpriest PrC and your mind will be made up.

What do you mean? Are you talking about the picture?
Sphyre
04-05-07, 05:31 PM Personally I'd go human of the two because dwarves are all dwarven-like... I also like the skill points and the feat more than bonus to saves (already have good fort and will).

I'm currently playing a Hellbred Cleric, and having a blast - esspecially because I'm a cleric of Kord, and I can cast Evil spells and Good spells due to the hellbred Evil Exception, unlike most clerics.
gullas
04-06-07, 02:18 PM I've played both a human and a dwarf cleric and to me it seems logical to choose either one if your going to be cleric .

gosh I can't decide wich one to choose :(but its always fun being a drunk dwarf:pint:
Jaxgaret
04-06-07, 02:35 PM If DMM is allowed? Human over PHB Dwarf all the way.

Otherwise, about even.
Valheru6
04-06-07, 03:25 PM Dwarf, hands down.
Treymordin
04-06-07, 10:38 PM Female Drow.
SD
04-06-07, 10:48 PM Dwarf with one level in barbarian was my melee king. Medium armor and shield for AC, dwarven waraxe for damage (rage and two-handed when increasing output was more important than decreasing input), and two classes that give good Fort with a +Con class for toughness. By second level (at which we started, so I didn't have to deal with waiting for my other class), I was a main healer with AC >17 before buffs and 30-foot movement swinging for 1d10+Str/x3 with a +7 Fort and 22hp.

He also talked like a pirate because I couldn't do a Scottish accent.

However, that DM played it fairly fast and loose with the racial role-playing. I find the normal character of dwarves to be ridiculous, restrictive, and irritating, even mroe so in some settings. Before choosing dwarf or human, make sure you wouldn't hate them.
MikeN
04-07-07, 12:27 AM If you can use cleric sub levels, dwarf is about as good as human. If you're doing an archer-type build, human is superior.

My PHB II variant archer:

Human Cleric of Pelor (28 point build) -- Domains: Healing (spont), Sun

Str 14
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 15
Cha 10

1) Point-blank Shot, Precise Shot
3) Zen Archery
6) Extra Turning
7) Radiant Servant of Pelor

RSoP gives all martial weapon proficiencies, and bows are martial weapons. You spontaneously can cast everything from the Healing domain, which is then affected by the RSoP levels. You can do this with any sun-god without the PHB II cleric option for a slightly more viable character (for instance, you can worship Ehlonna for Sun and Celerity domains and be a Radiant Servant of Ehlonna), forgoing the free metamagic on healing domain for better spells...but the first design is more the "best healer" while still being a viable caster and archer.
Wharin
04-07-07, 02:39 AM I would definately check out the Races of Stone for the Dwarven Cleric Substitution Class, if you are (justly so) considering having him be proficient in the war hammer.

But you could go a few ways with this, as well:

Take a level in Fighter, extra HP and access to feats is definatly good... *maybe* not worth a loss of spell casting, but its an option.

Take a god with Metal (its in a number of non-core books) as his domain. This gives you a free weapon prof. in a hammer (depending on which gook you look at, it can be either just a martial hammer, like a war hammer, or possibly an exotic hammer, like a maul, which is always nice)

Finally you could just burn the feat, but that always seems like a waste. If you are going to burn a feat for a war hammer, you might as well go the whole 9 yards and go for the (exotic) Maul instead.
The_Shaman
04-07-07, 05:27 PM As far as exotic proficiencies go, I think the Goliath Greathammer (1d12 medium) might be a better choice than even the maul.
Wharin
04-08-07, 02:52 AM Well, yeah, if you wanna wield a two handed weapon... Which might not be a bad idea as "sword and board" is/can be very cumbersome for a cleric who is trying to cast spells.
Faithkeep
04-10-07, 12:17 PM Finally you could just burn the feat, but that always seems like a waste. If you are going to burn a feat for a war hammer, you might as well go the whole 9 yards and go for the (exotic) Maul instead.

Yeah... the maul might give more damage... but it's the style, the look and hmm... the feel of the weapon that I'm after. The dwarf-with-a-hammer-in-one-hand look. :D
The_Geek
04-10-07, 01:31 PM Cleric?

Lesser Assimar, all the way. +2 to WIS and CHA - the Cleric traits! - plus full martial weapon proficiency (as an outsider)

.
The_Shaman
04-10-07, 01:37 PM Ah, in that case hammer is pretty solid. Most clerics iirc prefer their deity's weapon anyway (it's traditional, and dwarves are extra big on traditions), and there aren't that many deities with a spiked chain as a favored weapon. I know, er... one, I believe. Greatswords and greataxes are a bit more popular, but even those are not very common among deity favourites imo.
Sphyre
04-10-07, 02:27 PM Cleric?

Lesser Assimar, all the way. +2 to WIS and CHA - the Cleric traits! - plus full martial weapon proficiency (as an outsider)

.

Lesser Aasimars are not outsiders, they are humanoids with the planetouched subtype.

It's kind of funny, because that's the only difference between the the lesser version and normal... If you remove that the Lesser Planetouched are still worth +1 LAs...
Faithkeep
04-11-07, 12:44 AM Maybe I'll just get a godless dwarven cleric which has War domain, and then I'll choose warhammer. I could do that right?
Perun
04-11-07, 02:38 AM Maybe I'll just get a godless dwarven cleric which has War domain, and then I'll choose warhammer. I could do that right?

Yes.

If you're playing in FR or using Spell Compendium, Metal (or was it Metallurgy?) domain gives you similar abilities (proficiency and focus in your choice of hammer; the version in Player's Guide to Faerūn is better, strictly speaking, since it lets you pick any kind of hammer Complete Warrior)], while the SpC one is limited to light hammer and warhammer).

Regards.
Faithkeep
04-11-07, 06:20 AM Yes.Regards.

Cool. Thanks. :)
But I guess I find the War domain spell list more interesting so I might go with that instead of Metal. :D
Wharin
04-11-07, 08:33 AM Yeah... the maul might give more damage... but it's the style, the look and hmm... the feel of the weapon that I'm after. The dwarf-with-a-hammer-in-one-hand look. :D

Well... a Maul is a "bastard hammer" as per the rules, so its as much as a "hammer in one hand" weapon as a bastard sword is a "sword in one hand". Its just slightly heftier than your typical warhammer.

But, its your character, do what you want.
Faithkeep
04-11-07, 11:47 AM Well... a Maul is a "bastard hammer" as per the rules, so its as much as a "hammer in one hand" weapon as a bastard sword is a "sword in one hand". Its just slightly heftier than your typical warhammer.

But, its your character, do what you want.

Hmm... lemme think about that. Thanks. :D
Perun
04-11-07, 12:22 PM Well... a Maul is a "bastard hammer" as per the rules, so its as much as a "hammer in one hand" weapon as a bastard sword is a "sword in one hand". Its just slightly heftier than your typical warhammer.

That's why I recommended using the maul from Complete Warrior, seeing how previous incarnations of the maul (D&D 3.0 Arms and Equipment Guide, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting) were exclusively two-handed exotic weapon (i.e. you couldn't use it one-handed, short of a (3.0) Monkey Grip feat). CW has it as two-handed martial and/or one-handed exotic (identical to bastard sword and dwarven waraxe).

Regards.
Lixith
04-11-07, 12:50 PM If you want to focus on turning.... human.
If you want to focus on fighting.... probably dwarf.
If you want to focus on spells.... toss up.
Radegarth
04-11-07, 02:08 PM naa im think in the best race for cleric and is a ASIMAR....no?:P
mcstu3
04-11-07, 02:14 PM It all depends on your god, man. If you want pelor, go human. Obad? Killoren. Wee Jas? well...nobody likes wee jas.
Sphyre
04-11-07, 06:34 PM naa im think in the best race for cleric and is a ASIMAR....no?:P

Not neccesarily. It certainly helps if you are allowed to play a lesser aasimar. Aasimars though are LA +1, which casters generally should shy away from.
Faithkeep
04-12-07, 07:53 AM Yeah... I think I'll just go dwarf... I kinda love that race too much to let it go. :heehee

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Faithkeep 04-05-07, 06:55 AM	What do you think would be a better race for a cleric? Human or Dwarf? I can't decide... :heehee
Azar_of_Faerun 04-05-07, 07:01 AM	Equal Human means get another feat, you can meet requirements for 2-3 feat pre-requisite feats earlier Dwarf means your Cleric is even hardier than usual and his saves are REALLY good versus magic and poison.
Faithkeep 04-05-07, 07:08 AM	Yeah I was thinking that but I needed to hear it from someone else. Don't know why... Thanks. :) And when I choose a dwarf for a cleric... I feel like I just have to get warhammer proficiency. :D
tetebetson 04-05-07, 08:08 AM	Raptorian Dark elf Female
The_Shaman 04-05-07, 10:22 AM	I think dwarf is better, although you could use some decent stats to compensate on the skill points. Think about the second racial substitution level (effectively WSpec with hammers) :) . Besides, you'll usually be wearing heavier armors anyway, so the speed penalty isn't much of an issue.
DwarfPcfan 04-05-07, 11:08 AM	A well, the combat bonuses and save bonuses help in many situations dwarves are good for both battle-cleric types and heavy divine casting types. Try dwarf (gold or hill) cleric 5/Sovereign Speaker 10/Church Inquisitor5 for heavy casting, Or cleric5/paladin3/Fist of Raziel10/Sacred Exorcist3 for a heavy melee cleric Dwarves rule as clericsl...
Faithkeep 04-05-07, 12:02 PM	I might just go full cleric. :) I love full clerics. :D Remind me again what the level 2 racial substitution of dwarf clerics do?
RobbyPants 04-05-07, 12:05 PM	They're both good races, but I'd go with dwarf. As mentioned, the speed penalty is moot when you're in heavy armor anyway. The +2 to Con is always a nice thing. The only thing that sucks is the -2 Cha penalty, when you want to do some turning.
Warforged Goblin 04-05-07, 12:14 PM	Look in Complete Divine for the Warpriest PrC and your mind will be made up.
Faithkeep 04-05-07, 12:17 PM	Look in Complete Divine for the Warpriest PrC and your mind will be made up. What do you mean? Are you talking about the picture?
Sphyre 04-05-07, 05:31 PM	Personally I'd go human of the two because dwarves are all dwarven-like... I also like the skill points and the feat more than bonus to saves (already have good fort and will). I'm currently playing a Hellbred Cleric, and having a blast - esspecially because I'm a cleric of Kord, and I can cast Evil spells and Good spells due to the hellbred Evil Exception, unlike most clerics.
gullas 04-06-07, 02:18 PM	I've played both a human and a dwarf cleric and to me it seems logical to choose either one if your going to be cleric . gosh I can't decide wich one to choose :(but its always fun being a drunk dwarf:pint:
Jaxgaret 04-06-07, 02:35 PM	If DMM is allowed? Human over PHB Dwarf all the way. Otherwise, about even.
Valheru6 04-06-07, 03:25 PM	Dwarf, hands down.
Treymordin 04-06-07, 10:38 PM	Female Drow.
SD 04-06-07, 10:48 PM	Dwarf with one level in barbarian was my melee king. Medium armor and shield for AC, dwarven waraxe for damage (rage and two-handed when increasing output was more important than decreasing input), and two classes that give good Fort with a +Con class for toughness. By second level (at which we started, so I didn't have to deal with waiting for my other class), I was a main healer with AC >17 before buffs and 30-foot movement swinging for 1d10+Str/x3 with a +7 Fort and 22hp. He also talked like a pirate because I couldn't do a Scottish accent. However, that DM played it fairly fast and loose with the racial role-playing. I find the normal character of dwarves to be ridiculous, restrictive, and irritating, even mroe so in some settings. Before choosing dwarf or human, make sure you wouldn't hate them.
MikeN 04-07-07, 12:27 AM	If you can use cleric sub levels, dwarf is about as good as human. If you're doing an archer-type build, human is superior. My PHB II variant archer: Human Cleric of Pelor (28 point build) -- Domains: Healing (spont), Sun Str 14 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 15 Cha 10 1) Point-blank Shot, Precise Shot 3) Zen Archery 6) Extra Turning 7) Radiant Servant of Pelor RSoP gives all martial weapon proficiencies, and bows are martial weapons. You spontaneously can cast everything from the Healing domain, which is then affected by the RSoP levels. You can do this with any sun-god without the PHB II cleric option for a slightly more viable character (for instance, you can worship Ehlonna for Sun and Celerity domains and be a Radiant Servant of Ehlonna), forgoing the free metamagic on healing domain for better spells...but the first design is more the "best healer" while still being a viable caster and archer.
Wharin 04-07-07, 02:39 AM	I would definately check out the Races of Stone for the Dwarven Cleric Substitution Class, if you are (justly so) considering having him be proficient in the war hammer. But you could go a few ways with this, as well: Take a level in Fighter, extra HP and access to feats is definatly good... maybe not worth a loss of spell casting, but its an option. Take a god with Metal (its in a number of non-core books) as his domain. This gives you a free weapon prof. in a hammer (depending on which gook you look at, it can be either just a martial hammer, like a war hammer, or possibly an exotic hammer, like a maul, which is always nice) Finally you could just burn the feat, but that always seems like a waste. If you are going to burn a feat for a war hammer, you might as well go the whole 9 yards and go for the (exotic) Maul instead.
The_Shaman 04-07-07, 05:27 PM	As far as exotic proficiencies go, I think the Goliath Greathammer (1d12 medium) might be a better choice than even the maul.
Wharin 04-08-07, 02:52 AM	Well, yeah, if you wanna wield a two handed weapon... Which might not be a bad idea as "sword and board" is/can be very cumbersome for a cleric who is trying to cast spells.
Faithkeep 04-10-07, 12:17 PM	Finally you could just burn the feat, but that always seems like a waste. If you are going to burn a feat for a war hammer, you might as well go the whole 9 yards and go for the (exotic) Maul instead. Yeah... the maul might give more damage... but it's the style, the look and hmm... the feel of the weapon that I'm after. The dwarf-with-a-hammer-in-one-hand look. :D
The_Geek 04-10-07, 01:31 PM	Cleric? Lesser Assimar, all the way. +2 to WIS and CHA - the Cleric traits! - plus full martial weapon proficiency (as an outsider) .
The_Shaman 04-10-07, 01:37 PM	Ah, in that case hammer is pretty solid. Most clerics iirc prefer their deity's weapon anyway (it's traditional, and dwarves are extra big on traditions), and there aren't that many deities with a spiked chain as a favored weapon. I know, er... one, I believe. Greatswords and greataxes are a bit more popular, but even those are not very common among deity favourites imo.
Sphyre 04-10-07, 02:27 PM	Cleric? Lesser Assimar, all the way. +2 to WIS and CHA - the Cleric traits! - plus full martial weapon proficiency (as an outsider) . Lesser Aasimars are not outsiders, they are humanoids with the planetouched subtype. It's kind of funny, because that's the only difference between the the lesser version and normal... If you remove that the Lesser Planetouched are still worth +1 LAs...
Faithkeep 04-11-07, 12:44 AM	Maybe I'll just get a godless dwarven cleric which has War domain, and then I'll choose warhammer. I could do that right?
Perun 04-11-07, 02:38 AM	Maybe I'll just get a godless dwarven cleric which has War domain, and then I'll choose warhammer. I could do that right? Yes. If you're playing in FR or using Spell Compendium, Metal (or was it Metallurgy?) domain gives you similar abilities (proficiency and focus in your choice of hammer; the version in Player's Guide to Faerūn is better, strictly speaking, since it lets you pick any kind of hammer Complete Warrior)], while the SpC one is limited to light hammer and warhammer). Regards.
Faithkeep 04-11-07, 06:20 AM	Yes.Regards. Cool. Thanks. :) But I guess I find the War domain spell list more interesting so I might go with that instead of Metal. :D
Wharin 04-11-07, 08:33 AM	Yeah... the maul might give more damage... but it's the style, the look and hmm... the feel of the weapon that I'm after. The dwarf-with-a-hammer-in-one-hand look. :D Well... a Maul is a "bastard hammer" as per the rules, so its as much as a "hammer in one hand" weapon as a bastard sword is a "sword in one hand". Its just slightly heftier than your typical warhammer. But, its your character, do what you want.
Faithkeep 04-11-07, 11:47 AM	Well... a Maul is a "bastard hammer" as per the rules, so its as much as a "hammer in one hand" weapon as a bastard sword is a "sword in one hand". Its just slightly heftier than your typical warhammer. But, its your character, do what you want. Hmm... lemme think about that. Thanks. :D
Perun 04-11-07, 12:22 PM	Well... a Maul is a "bastard hammer" as per the rules, so its as much as a "hammer in one hand" weapon as a bastard sword is a "sword in one hand". Its just slightly heftier than your typical warhammer. That's why I recommended using the maul from Complete Warrior, seeing how previous incarnations of the maul (D&D 3.0 Arms and Equipment Guide, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting) were exclusively two-handed exotic weapon (i.e. you couldn't use it one-handed, short of a (3.0) Monkey Grip feat). CW has it as two-handed martial and/or one-handed exotic (identical to bastard sword and dwarven waraxe). Regards.
Lixith 04-11-07, 12:50 PM	If you want to focus on turning.... human. If you want to focus on fighting.... probably dwarf. If you want to focus on spells.... toss up.
Radegarth 04-11-07, 02:08 PM	naa im think in the best race for cleric and is a ASIMAR....no?:P
mcstu3 04-11-07, 02:14 PM	It all depends on your god, man. If you want pelor, go human. Obad? Killoren. Wee Jas? well...nobody likes wee jas.
Sphyre 04-11-07, 06:34 PM	naa im think in the best race for cleric and is a ASIMAR....no?:P Not neccesarily. It certainly helps if you are allowed to play a lesser aasimar. Aasimars though are LA +1, which casters generally should shy away from.
Faithkeep 04-12-07, 07:53 AM	Yeah... I think I'll just go dwarf... I kinda love that race too much to let it go. :heehee