Bit confused about ECL [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bit confused about ECL [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Chells
02-04-08, 11:07 AM I have been playing a gnoll for a couple campaigns. Here is what the SRD has for gnolls.

GNOLLS AS CHARACTERS
Gnoll characters possess the following racial traits.
—Strength +4, Constitution +2, Intelligence –2, Charisma –2.
—Size Medium.
—A gnoll’s base land speed is 30 feet.
—Darkvision out to 60 feet.
—Racial Hit Dice: A gnoll begins with two levels of humanoid, which provide 2d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +1, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +3, Ref +0, and Will +0.
—Racial Skills: A gnoll’s humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 5 x(2 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Listen and Spot.
—Racial Feats: A gnoll’s humanoid levels give it one feat.
— +1 natural armor bonus.
—Automatic Languages: Gnoll. Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Orc.
—Favored Class: Ranger.
—Level adjustment +1.

Yet after a couple of games it seems the DM read somwhere that the build was wrong and cut out the whole Racial Hit Dice section. It isn't a a really big deal though it does making it harder to be the big furry front line guy. I'm just curious as to where I need to look to find the rules why the Racial Hit Dice are not part of the ECL. Any help would be appriciated.
Thanks
Naderion
02-04-08, 11:33 AM ECL is: Class levels + Hit Dice + Level Adjustment.

Usually, it only benefits the player if you take the HD away and instead have the character have more class levels.

Level 3 Barbarian is better than Level 1 Barbarian + 2 HD humanoid, but both are equal regarding to ECL.
Orenmir
02-04-08, 12:36 PM You can't just take the racial HD away. The balance of the race depends on it. Doing so would make a grievously overpowered character.

ECL = Class levels + LA + Racial HD

This equation should not be altered.
Rebel7284
02-04-08, 12:44 PM You can't just take the racial HD away. The balance of the race depends on it. Doing so would make a grievously overpowered character.

ECL = Class levels + LA + Racial HD

This equation should not be altered.

In general, your are correct. However, I don't think that removing racial HD from a gnoll would make it overpowered. Look at goliaths from races of stone. A gnoll would not be any better than a goliath. As is, gnoll is a very underpowered choice for a character.
Orenmir
02-04-08, 01:12 PM In general, your are correct. However, I don't think that removing racial HD from a gnoll would make it overpowered. Look at goliaths from races of stone. A gnoll would not be any better than a goliath. As is, gnoll is a very underpowered choice for a character.

I was speaking in general/broad terms. I agree, the Gnoll does seem rather underpowered with those extra HD. Although it would be against the RAW, I guess it seems reasonable to get rid of them in this specific race's case.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Chells 02-04-08, 11:07 AM	I have been playing a gnoll for a couple campaigns. Here is what the SRD has for gnolls. GNOLLS AS CHARACTERS Gnoll characters possess the following racial traits. —Strength +4, Constitution +2, Intelligence –2, Charisma –2. —Size Medium. —A gnoll’s base land speed is 30 feet. —Darkvision out to 60 feet. —Racial Hit Dice: A gnoll begins with two levels of humanoid, which provide 2d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +1, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +3, Ref +0, and Will +0. —Racial Skills: A gnoll’s humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 5 x(2 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Listen and Spot. —Racial Feats: A gnoll’s humanoid levels give it one feat. — +1 natural armor bonus. —Automatic Languages: Gnoll. Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Orc. —Favored Class: Ranger. —Level adjustment +1. Yet after a couple of games it seems the DM read somwhere that the build was wrong and cut out the whole Racial Hit Dice section. It isn't a a really big deal though it does making it harder to be the big furry front line guy. I'm just curious as to where I need to look to find the rules why the Racial Hit Dice are not part of the ECL. Any help would be appriciated. Thanks
Naderion 02-04-08, 11:33 AM	ECL is: Class levels + Hit Dice + Level Adjustment. Usually, it only benefits the player if you take the HD away and instead have the character have more class levels. Level 3 Barbarian is better than Level 1 Barbarian + 2 HD humanoid, but both are equal regarding to ECL.
Orenmir 02-04-08, 12:36 PM	You can't just take the racial HD away. The balance of the race depends on it. Doing so would make a grievously overpowered character. ECL = Class levels + LA + Racial HD This equation should not be altered.
Rebel7284 02-04-08, 12:44 PM	You can't just take the racial HD away. The balance of the race depends on it. Doing so would make a grievously overpowered character. ECL = Class levels + LA + Racial HD This equation should not be altered. In general, your are correct. However, I don't think that removing racial HD from a gnoll would make it overpowered. Look at goliaths from races of stone. A gnoll would not be any better than a goliath. As is, gnoll is a very underpowered choice for a character.
Orenmir 02-04-08, 01:12 PM	In general, your are correct. However, I don't think that removing racial HD from a gnoll would make it overpowered. Look at goliaths from races of stone. A gnoll would not be any better than a goliath. As is, gnoll is a very underpowered choice for a character. I was speaking in general/broad terms. I agree, the Gnoll does seem rather underpowered with those extra HD. Although it would be against the RAW, I guess it seems reasonable to get rid of them in this specific race's case.