catfolk half red dragon help? [Archive] - Wizards Community

catfolk half red dragon help? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
delguidance2
06-22-07, 01:38 AM Hi,

I'm starting a new campaign and our friend Tom wants a half catfolk, half red dragon, which we're all okay with. In order to balance things we thought that he should "build up" to having the full abilities of his race.

The thing is we're unclear on how some of this will work out.

I've only included the stuff we're worried about in the following description.

The catfolk from Races of Wild get +4 dex, +2 Cha, for +1 level adjustment.

1/2 dragon template: increases hit die to d12, base skill points are 6 + int modifier, Str +8, Con +2, Int +2, Cha +2, all for level +3.

At the end of this the player wants to be a monk.

This is the current plan, but I'm open to suggestions:

He's looking at a total of +4 to his level because of the races.

His first level will be monk, and then over the next four levels the racial modifiers will come into play.

Questions we have:

How many hit points does he get at each level for the first five levels?

Do his saves increase for the first five levels?

How many skill points does he get per level.

Is there an easier way to keep him balanced with the rest of the party, like a 1/2 dragon class he can take similar to the way undead can progress in Libris Mortis?

Any help is appreciated.
Neutronium_Dragon
06-22-07, 01:44 AM In short, he only gets skill points, hit dice, base attacks and saves, etc, for his one actual class level - Monk 1. The level adjustments don't add anything.

As such, he won't be a viable character at low level play because at 5th level he'd still have ~10 HP.

If he wants to pursue something like that then I'd suggest that he aim for a catfolk Dragon Shaman or even Dragon Disciple instead.
Roivas
06-22-07, 01:46 AM If starting at 1st level he shouldn't be allowed to play a 5th level character. A creature with a +4 LA even with one class level is far more powerful than any 1st level character [don't bring pun-pun into this] and should be tempered and toned down in ability. Since you are fairly new to LA I would advise not allowing him to play such a creature at first level.
The reason I say this is because you are missing a few key things about his character. His racial HD are increased by one step for 1/2 dragon, he doesn't have any. Same goes for skill point increase, only for racial HD. Saves don't increase for LA at all the bonuses to your stats should be suffecient until higher levels. The same goes for HP and anything else dirved from class levels, he gains no benifit when he levels up other than buying off his LA.
So as I said don't allow him to play this character until you are both more experianced with the game's mechanics in general.
Mentar
06-22-07, 06:04 AM To answer your question directly.
At 1st level he would get max HP for monk, and monk 1st level skill points.
He will be the most powerful 1st level character in the group.
Of course since he's ECL 5 the rest of the group will be advancing and he won't.
Once he has enough XP for level 6 he gets to become a level 2 monk.

Sure the racial immunity to sleep is there, but there are various spells that have HD based effects. At ECL 9, when the wizard gets cloudkill, the character will be 5HD, still within the save or die range of effects.

If you use UA for the LA buy-off the character will be able to buy off one LA at level 12, then another at 21, 27, and 30. It's not listed as the character will only be able to buy off one LA before epic levels.

By the time the rest of the group is around 10th level the catfolk/half dragon level 5 monk may find himself to be not as effective as he had expected. By 15th level this should be obvious.

If you don't plan to advance the other characters quickly they may well get tired of how overpowering the half-breed is, and if you do the player may quickly get tired of being behind the curve.
Gr8tyrant
06-22-07, 10:30 AM I dont have problems with the non base races, but this is one of the reasons I understand people who do. Things get so complicated and unfortunately the system is not terribly easy to use and people new to 3.5 get confused and the player than over powers his entire group.

I think it would be a foolish choice to let him play this character if you are starting at level 1.

This character will be more powerful than all your other party members put together for a level or two...

You can house rule him slowly getting his abilities but he will suffer on hit points, BAB, skills and a few other things that are level dependant.
Leonidus
06-22-07, 11:55 AM To answer your question about sdvancing in a template, YES, and I'm shocked nobody posted this yet:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a

To take it, you advance in it as a class, just as you would with anything else. No HD are gained, so no extra hp, saves, oir skills. Your friend might want to space them out.

IIRC, this table was combined, rather poorly IMO, with the Draconic creature template in Races of the Dragon, but this version is a little more clear to read.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
delguidance2 06-22-07, 01:38 AM	Hi, I'm starting a new campaign and our friend Tom wants a half catfolk, half red dragon, which we're all okay with. In order to balance things we thought that he should "build up" to having the full abilities of his race. The thing is we're unclear on how some of this will work out. I've only included the stuff we're worried about in the following description. The catfolk from Races of Wild get +4 dex, +2 Cha, for +1 level adjustment. 1/2 dragon template: increases hit die to d12, base skill points are 6 + int modifier, Str +8, Con +2, Int +2, Cha +2, all for level +3. At the end of this the player wants to be a monk. This is the current plan, but I'm open to suggestions: He's looking at a total of +4 to his level because of the races. His first level will be monk, and then over the next four levels the racial modifiers will come into play. Questions we have: How many hit points does he get at each level for the first five levels? Do his saves increase for the first five levels? How many skill points does he get per level. Is there an easier way to keep him balanced with the rest of the party, like a 1/2 dragon class he can take similar to the way undead can progress in Libris Mortis? Any help is appreciated.
Neutronium_Dragon 06-22-07, 01:44 AM	In short, he only gets skill points, hit dice, base attacks and saves, etc, for his one actual class level - Monk 1. The level adjustments don't add anything. As such, he won't be a viable character at low level play because at 5th level he'd still have ~10 HP. If he wants to pursue something like that then I'd suggest that he aim for a catfolk Dragon Shaman or even Dragon Disciple instead.
Roivas 06-22-07, 01:46 AM	If starting at 1st level he shouldn't be allowed to play a 5th level character. A creature with a +4 LA even with one class level is far more powerful than any 1st level character [don't bring pun-pun into this] and should be tempered and toned down in ability. Since you are fairly new to LA I would advise not allowing him to play such a creature at first level. The reason I say this is because you are missing a few key things about his character. His racial HD are increased by one step for 1/2 dragon, he doesn't have any. Same goes for skill point increase, only for racial HD. Saves don't increase for LA at all the bonuses to your stats should be suffecient until higher levels. The same goes for HP and anything else dirved from class levels, he gains no benifit when he levels up other than buying off his LA. So as I said don't allow him to play this character until you are both more experianced with the game's mechanics in general.
Mentar 06-22-07, 06:04 AM	To answer your question directly. At 1st level he would get max HP for monk, and monk 1st level skill points. He will be the most powerful 1st level character in the group. Of course since he's ECL 5 the rest of the group will be advancing and he won't. Once he has enough XP for level 6 he gets to become a level 2 monk. Sure the racial immunity to sleep is there, but there are various spells that have HD based effects. At ECL 9, when the wizard gets cloudkill, the character will be 5HD, still within the save or die range of effects. If you use UA for the LA buy-off the character will be able to buy off one LA at level 12, then another at 21, 27, and 30. It's not listed as the character will only be able to buy off one LA before epic levels. By the time the rest of the group is around 10th level the catfolk/half dragon level 5 monk may find himself to be not as effective as he had expected. By 15th level this should be obvious. If you don't plan to advance the other characters quickly they may well get tired of how overpowering the half-breed is, and if you do the player may quickly get tired of being behind the curve.
Gr8tyrant 06-22-07, 10:30 AM	I dont have problems with the non base races, but this is one of the reasons I understand people who do. Things get so complicated and unfortunately the system is not terribly easy to use and people new to 3.5 get confused and the player than over powers his entire group. I think it would be a foolish choice to let him play this character if you are starting at level 1. This character will be more powerful than all your other party members put together for a level or two... You can house rule him slowly getting his abilities but he will suffer on hit points, BAB, skills and a few other things that are level dependant.
Leonidus 06-22-07, 11:55 AM	To answer your question about sdvancing in a template, YES, and I'm shocked nobody posted this yet: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a To take it, you advance in it as a class, just as you would with anything else. No HD are gained, so no extra hp, saves, oir skills. Your friend might want to space them out. IIRC, this table was combined, rather poorly IMO, with the Draconic creature template in Races of the Dragon, but this version is a little more clear to read.