Post/Author/DateTime	Post
InversnaidRollrock 09-06-07, 10:01 AM	Does this seem overpowered? Cat Folk -4 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis Small size A Cat Folk's base land speed is 30 feet. +2 on Jump, Move Silently, and Hide Uses Dexterity for jump and climb checks (instead of Strength). Falls as if fall is 10 ft shorter when conscious. Low light vision. As a full round action, may make a standing jump as if running. Bonus Feat: Weapon Finesse (modified stats)
Majick 09-06-07, 10:08 AM	I would probably allow this. I realise this is fairly powerful for a +0 LA Race but, meh, it wouldn't unbalance things in my opinion (might actually make a monk worth playing!) :D
JarionSilverblades 09-06-07, 11:12 AM	Does this seem overpowered? Cat Folk -4 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis Small size A Cat Folk's base land speed is 30 feet. +2 on Jump and Move Silently. +2 on Hide (+6 in Low light). Uses Dexterity for jump and climb checks (instead of Strength). When conscious, falls as if fall is 10 ft shorter. Low light vision. As a full round action, may make a standing jump as if running. natural weapons: 2 claws (1d3). Bonus Feat: Weapon Finesse I'd change the -4 Str to -2, loss the +2 wis. Instead of the +2 wisdom you might just want to give it a +2 to some of the wisdom based skills. Also if you want to see another cat-like race please check out my Wildmane Panynx in my home-brewed races. It was inspired more by the Thundercats then Catfolk but I like it, and so do my players.
Kadasbrass 09-06-07, 12:17 PM	+2 Dex and +2 Wis is not balanced by -4 str, making the race too good at a limited role that won't be hit too much by the penalty (able to avoid most of its effects), specially since your giving it weapon finesse as a bonus feat. And two natural weapons would be abused by a rogue with sneak attack.
AtsuiShoto 09-06-07, 01:20 PM	I think if you drop the claws, it would be better balanced (so as not to make it TOO abusable by a rogue). Remember, giving 2 natural weapons means that a rogue doesn't have to invest in the TWF tree (although he may want to later, in order to use enchanted weapons). As for the -4 Str vs. +2 Dex and +2 Wis... I think the far lower carrying capacity and 2 points less damage on all melee and thrown attacks is penalty enough for the rest. If you put an 8 into your Strength, and lower it to a 4, then you're going to be EXTREMELY vulnerable to poisons, especially considering that non-STR-based classes almost never have good Fortitude saves. Oh, and as for this race making a Monk playable... monks do best when they use high Strength, I've found.
Shadowhowler 09-06-07, 01:50 PM	Does this seem overpowered? Cat Folk -4 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis Small size A Cat Folk's base land speed is 30 feet. +2 on Jump and Move Silently. +2 on Hide (+6 in Low light). Uses Dexterity for jump and climb checks (instead of Strength). When conscious, falls as if fall is 10 ft shorter. Low light vision. As a full round action, may make a standing jump as if running. natural weapons: 2 claws (1d3). Bonus Feat: Weapon Finesse Kinda funky... First off, you are giving the race two feats for free. Weapon Finesse, and the replacing STR with DEX for jump and climb is a feat also, tho I don't recal it's name right now. Two free feats for a race seems off. I'd ditch the extra bonus to hide in low light, thats just odd. Also... I don't see a lot (if any) no LA races with natural weapons... but if you were going to do cat claws and the race is small, I'd have it be 1D2 per claw. A Small sized dagger does 1D3, so thoses would be some huge claws. Lastly, I don't think cats really require a WIS bonus. So... I'd do something like this: -2 Str +2 Dex Small Size Low Light Vision Base Move - 30 +2 on Jump, Move Silently, Hide, and Climb Use Dex For Climb and Jump Natual Weapon - Claws 1D2/!D2 Even then... it's a bit off-Balance for use as a Rogue or Scout... but not as bad as a Whispergnome, so it should be ok.
Shadowhowler 09-06-07, 01:52 PM	Oh, and as for this race making a Monk playable... monks do best when they use high Strength, I've found. Indeed. For flavor... one may want to make a Dex based Monk... however, in practice, the way the numbers fall, your better of with a Str based Monk.
JarionSilverblades 09-06-07, 01:53 PM	Also... I don't see a lot (if any) no LA races with natural weapons... but if you were going to do cat claws and the race is small, I'd have it be 1D2 per claw. A Small sized dagger does 1D3, so thoses would be some huge claws. There is a PC race in Stormwrack that has a bite attack, I can't recall what that race is called thou.
Shadowhowler 09-06-07, 01:57 PM	There is a PC race in Stormwrack that has a bite attack, I can't recall what that race is called thou. See, thats what I mean. Not to many of em out there... and if they are, they are in obscure supplments and bearly remembered.
Meep326 09-06-07, 07:02 PM	Even then... it's a bit off-Balance for use as a Rogue or Scout... but not as bad as a Whispergnome, so it should be ok. Sorry to hijack the thread, so... okies, I havn't read anything about the Whispergnome, what makes it in any way broken?
InversnaidRollrock 09-06-07, 07:48 PM	Thanks for the help everyone. I have taken into consideration your comments, and agree with most of them ;) Here is my modified version (based on your comments): Cat Folk -4 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis Small size A Cat Folk's base land speed is 30 feet. +2 on Jump, Move Silently, and Hide Uses Dexterity for jump and climb checks (instead of Strength). Falls as if fall is 10 ft shorter when conscious. Low light vision. As a full round action, may make a standing jump as if running. Bonus Feat: Weapon Finesse As you can see, I changed these parts: +2 on Hide (+6 in Low light). natural weapons: 2 claws (1d3). This class is meant as a toned down version of the Anthropomorphic Cat from Savage Species. The Anthropomorphic Cat is a LA +1 race. the original skill bonuses that it got were: +4 on Climb, Hide, and Move Silently +8 on Jump and Balance use Dexterity modifier instead of their Strength modifier for Climb and Jump checks. In tall grass: Hide +8. it also had darkvision, weapon finesse, the same ability modifiers that I have listed for my cat, as well as 2 claws and a bite attack. I kept the -4 to strength as you can see. The stats are balanced according to the Dungeon Masters guide, and I figure that a small catlike creature is not likely to be very strong (imagine a human like housecat I.E. something that looks like this: http://nephtis.deviantart.com/art/Catfolk-Master-thrower-42316047 ) the claws are similar to a kenku's claws, but I can see how - with the other bonuses - they could be too powerful. ( here are the kenku's stats so that you can see: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040912b&page=4 ) The reason why they had dexterity instead of strength for climb and jump is that an anthropomorphic cat has that ability (and a -2 to jump checks due to low strength would nullify the racial +2 to jump, and I wanted them to be able to jump well). Jarion: I looked at your Wildmane Panynx, and they are similar to my catfolk, but my race are based more on housecats, and less on big cats. Perhaps I should change my name to housecatfolk ;) Thanks again everyone. -Mike
G_Mancer 09-06-07, 11:31 PM	Does this seem overpowered? Cat Folk -4 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis Small size A Cat Folk's base land speed is 30 feet. +2 on Jump and Move Silently. +2 on Hide (+6 in Low light). Uses Dexterity for jump and climb checks (instead of Strength). When conscious, falls as if fall is 10 ft shorter. Low light vision. As a full round action, may make a standing jump as if running. natural weapons: 2 claws (1d3). Bonus Feat: Weapon Finesse i dont know why anyone would play this. instead of playing this unbalanced homebrew, you should play the regular +1LA, which by unearthed arcana rules, can be gotten rid of. and if you are still left wanting to play as ECL1, then play as an aprentice sorc/barb/pally/ect. you get BAB, Proficiancies, Saves, and Hit-dice. instead of your 2nd lvl, you gain the rest of your abilities and are now as if started from ECL2.
Shadowhowler 09-06-07, 11:41 PM	i dont know why anyone would play this. instead of playing this unbalanced homebrew, you should play the regular +1LA, which by unearthed arcana rules, can be gotten rid of. and if you are still left wanting to play as ECL1, then play as an aprentice sorc/barb/pally/ect. you get BAB, Proficiancies, Saves, and Hit-dice. instead of your 2nd lvl, you gain the rest of your abilities and are now as if started from ECL2. He made this race to be 'little cat people'... more based on small cats, like domesticated house cats. Catfolk in The Races of the Wild are medium sized creatures, and more based of large cats, like tigers and lions and whatnot.
Shadowhowler 09-06-07, 11:47 PM	Sorry to hijack the thread, so... okies, I havn't read anything about the Whispergnome, what makes it in any way broken? Well... the Whispergnome was created to be the Uber 'Sneak-thife' as it were... and as another thread currently is discussing, is way to powerful for a standered no LA race (which is it) but maybe/maybe not worthy of a +1LA. All it's bounes go stight towards sneaking, hidding, it has small size but normal move (as does our OP's cat race) and it gets a lot of other Rogue-friendly abilities (which is it's favored class, shockingly) and it's stat adjustments are pretty much Rogue perfect also. It would be possible to have a 1st level Wispergnome with a Hide check of 17, a Move Silently of 13, and Spot and Listen checks of 10. It's a bit much.
ragoftag 09-07-07, 09:48 AM	Someone recently posted a downgraded version of natural attacks here in 'Races' that works well at defining a people who have left their 'savage' roots behind. A step down for damage and a -4 for non-proficiency, I think. You could have a feat or so that removes such a penalty, etc.
RobbyPants 09-07-07, 10:37 AM	Does this seem overpowered? Cat Folk -4 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis Small size A Cat Folk's base land speed is 30 feet. +2 on Jump and Move Silently. +2 on Hide (+6 in Low light). Uses Dexterity for jump and climb checks (instead of Strength). When conscious, falls as if fall is 10 ft shorter. Low light vision. As a full round action, may make a standing jump as if running. natural weapons: 2 claws (1d3). Bonus Feat: Weapon Finesse All in all, it's not too bad. I agree with Kadasbrass in that the +2 Dex and Wis isn't quite balanced by the -4 Str. At this point, Str merely becomes a dump stat. Two -2s would probably be better. I don't know the fluff on your race, so I can't say for sure which stat I'd put the other -2 on (the remaining three being Con, Int, and Cha). Alternatly, you could remove the Wis bonus, and just call it +2 Dex, -2 Str. If you remove the Weapon Finess as a bonus feat, then it's not so bad using the ability modifiers that you have.
Spikes01k 09-07-07, 03:43 PM	Does this seem overpowered? Cat Folk -4 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis Small size A Cat Folk's base land speed is 30 feet. +2 on Jump and Move Silently. +2 on Hide (+6 in Low light). Uses Dexterity for jump and climb checks (instead of Strength). When conscious, falls as if fall is 10 ft shorter. Low light vision. As a full round action, may make a standing jump as if running. natural weapons: 2 claws (1d3). Bonus Feat: Weapon Finesse Yeah It is just a tad over powered. The -4 strength is a good balancing factor. It makes up for the fact that your practically giving 3 feats compared to the normal two. Using the WotC you blancing a -2 str for a +2 dex, an additional -2 str for a +2 mental stat merits an additional bonus. As for the natural claw attacks simply make it so that they may make only one attack with full BaB and get a second attack at -5 to hit at 3 hit die, and eliminate that -5 at 6 hit die. This way it would be like gaining a scaling ability. Getting only two attacks is fine at 6 hit die, how ever you might want to only grant these at the cost of a single feat.