Celestial +Fiend =??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Celestial +Fiend =??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Fly666monkey
10-21-07, 11:37 PM Is it covered anywhere what kind of creature is born from a Celestial and a Fiend? It would be an interesting race to play.
Kadasbrass
10-21-07, 11:50 PM http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm4_gallery/98674.jpg

Concordant Killer, Monster Manuel 4
Thou not really a playable race... its only thing I can think of out there.
happy_fuzzy
10-21-07, 11:55 PM ya its CR is almost equal to a balor, but i suppose you could create somekind of aaismar/teifling hybrid
INeedNoSalt
10-21-07, 11:58 PM ya its CR is almost equal to a balor, but i suppose you could create somekind of aaismar/teifling hybrid

we call that a human
FrostHammer
10-22-07, 12:01 AM So accordinglyto the Punnett square, 1/4 the time the offspring would be a regular human, 1/4 Tiefling, 1/4 Aasimar, and 1/4 planar outcast that both evil and good outsieders would scorn? :D
Fly666monkey
10-22-07, 01:02 AM It would definitely be an outcast
zeratulcraft
10-22-07, 02:21 AM Add Fiendish and Celestial to a base creature. Or, Half-Field/Half-Celestial.
imakuni67
10-22-07, 09:11 AM that implies 3 parents though >.<
Jaxgaret
10-22-07, 12:32 PM that implies 3 parents though >.<

Not exactly. The half-breed rules state that the creature need not necessarily be the product of two 100% pure adults of two different races.

I agree with the idea of applying both the Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial templates to a base creature which we'll call Base Creature, with the following racial traits:

Medium Sized
30' base land movement
No ability modifiers
Known Languages: Common. Bonus Languages: Any.
Favored Class: Any

And then the Half-Celestial + Half-Fiend templates might produce the following changes:

Size and Type

The creature’s type changes to outsider. Do not recalculate the creature’s Hit Dice, base attack bonus, or saves. Size is unchanged. Half-celestial/half-fiends are normally native outsiders.

Speed

A half-celestial/half-fiend has feathered bat wings and can fly at 1.5x the base creature’s base land speed (good maneuverability). If the base creature has a fly speed, use that instead.

Armor Class

Natural armor improves by +1 (this stacks with any natural armor bonus the base creature has).

Attack

A half-fiend/half-celestial has two claw attacks that deal 1d4 damage due to their Medium size. If the base creature can use weapons, the half-fiend/half-celestial retains this ability. A half-fiend/half-celestial fighting without weapons uses a claw when making an attack action. When it has a weapon, it usually uses the weapon instead.

Smite (Su)

Once per day the creature can make a normal melee attack to deal extra damage equal to its HD (maximum of +20) against a foe.

Spell-Like Abilities

A half-celestial/half-fiend with an Intelligence or Wisdom score of 8 or higher has two or more spell-like abilities, depending on its Hit Dice, as indicated on the table below. The abilities are cumulative.

Unless otherwise noted, an ability is usable once per day. Caster level equals the creature’s HD, and the save DC is Charisma-based.

Special Qualities

A half-fiend/half-celestial has all the special qualities of the base creature, plus the following special qualities.

* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Immunity to poison & disease.
* Resistance to acid 20, cold 20, electricity 20, and fire 10.
* Damage reduction: 5/magic (if HD 11 or less) or 10/magic (if HD 12 or more).
* A half-fiend/half-celestial’s natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
* Spell resistance equal to creature’s HD + 10 (maximum 35).

Abilities

Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +8, Dex +6, Con +6, Int +6, Wis +4, Cha +6.

The only thing that will need to be worked out is the list of spell-like abilities for the creature to have. I'd peg it at just about LA +6.
Fly666monkey
10-22-07, 02:53 PM got an idea for a name: Peradar (Pear-uh-dar)

Description:

An unusual humanlike creature stands before you. It has golden skin and feathered wings, suggesting celestial blood, but is offset by horns and fiery eyes, suggesting something more sinister...
Wharin
10-22-07, 04:53 PM So accordinglyto the Punnett square, 1/4 the time the offspring would be a regular human, 1/4 Tiefling, 1/4 Aasimar, and 1/4 planar outcast that both evil and good outsieders would scorn? :D

Because the entirety of celestial, infernal, or racial identity is relegated to a single solitary pair of genes. Riiiiggght.... :rolleyes:

This sarcasm isn't solely targeted at you, or even at you, per se. It just gets my goat when people seem to think that racial identity of hybrid conception can be "solved" with a single punnet square. Like saying a pair of half elves have a 25% chance of giving birth to a "full blooded" elf. Uh huh.
HCL
10-22-07, 05:36 PM Because the entirety of celestial, infernal, or racial identity is relegated to a single solitary pair of genes. Riiiiggght.... :rolleyes:

This sarcasm isn't solely targeted at you, or even at you, per se. It just gets my goat when people seem to think that racial identity of hybrid conception can be "solved" with a single punnet square. Like saying a pair of half elves have a 25% chance of giving birth to a "full blooded" elf. Uh huh.

it was in the news a little while ago that two half african half caucasian people gave birth to twin baby girls one was full white one was full black ill find it

http://www.snopes.com/photos/people/mixedtwins.asp
Wharin
10-22-07, 10:08 PM Oh, I am fully aware of that story. But I maintain that a 1 in a million "miracle" and the 25% chance the punnet square provides are just about as far apart on the spectrum as you can get.

Skin colour, in real world biology, arguably of little biological importance, is tied to dozens and dozens of trait pairings, which is why when people with different skin tones have children, their kids are typically somewhere in between parents and while they may be darker or lighter than either parent, those chances are faaar smaller than 25%. And this is with skin colour. WoOOoo.
What makes an elf an elf or a celestial a celestial (things *much* more significant in my mind), if we are going to play the Gene Game, would much more likely be tied to many many many genes, so many that playing with punnet squares (aside from establishing eye and hair colour) becomes just about pointless.

I have no problem for DM Fiat handwaving or intricate player backstories to allow these miracle one-shots. Its just that when people take what they learned in 6th grade Bio and run with it in extremely unrealistic, and overly simplified scenarios (being that the entire racial identity is tied to a single solitary trait pair) that kinda get to me. It just kinda cheapens it for me. Applying a science that we still don't completely understand yet to a world of magic just doesn't sit well with me. I dunno. If I am completely in the wrong, I'll shut up on the subject.
Jaxgaret
10-22-07, 10:17 PM Nice speech, Wharin. Good points.

But don't be so bitter about it, dude! They know not what they do...

Be the shepherd. :)
Return of the Flumph
10-23-07, 01:28 AM A friend of mine statted this. She called them "dark angels." They are mostly interplanar mercenaries, who are usually neither beloved nor scorned by either of their parent races. They tend to be neutral in alignment, and seem to be able to breed true. They are not emo-ridden angst machines; indeed, most of them enjoy their unique brand of independence.

I thought her take on it was cool. Don't have stats, though.
sbroleplayer
10-23-07, 03:39 PM I know this is my first post here, so I will start off with a sarcastic remark...

There is already a Fiend/Celestial hybrid....watch the movie Little Nicky...
I know, probably a bad joke, none the less. I mean it is very possible, fiend father rapes a celestial mother, and seeing I bet many of the celestial races view abortion as a bad thing, so id gather she'd carry the child full term. Personally I think it would be possible, not in the realm of balor, and definatly a CR or two higher than a tiefling or a aasimar...it would probably depend exactly on what ranking both the fiend and celestial would be. It would also depend on what special abilities the child would get. So hope I helped, if not...well, then just ignore the post
ToastedAmphibian
10-23-07, 03:54 PM Or mabey a succubus just manages to convice an archon that shes a deva!
Fun was had by all, till the archon fell of corse...
(Now if you really want to have some fun, go up to random people on the street and start repeating that first sentence. See how many blanks stares you get. See how many people assume yoru insane/drunk)
Optimator
10-23-07, 05:14 PM Infernals are also described as the result of such a union. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#infernal)
Jaxgaret
10-23-07, 05:29 PM Infernals are also described as the result of such a union. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#infernal)

Infernals are the result of a union between a fiend and a god - not a fiend and a celestial.
Fly666monkey
10-23-07, 08:57 PM Can't Leave out heavy drinking!:D
StruckingFuggle
10-23-07, 11:39 PM we call that a human

...what? No you don't.

Also, either slap the halfs on a blank set of stats (no adjustments, no bonuses, nothing), or a half-fiendish celestial, or a half-celestial fiend, or something. Is what it'd probably be like.
Guardian1
10-24-07, 12:46 AM So accordinglyto the Punnett square, 1/4 the time the offspring would be a regular human, 1/4 Tiefling, 1/4 Aasimar, and 1/4 planar outcast that both evil and good outsieders would scorn? :D

Iiiiiiinnnnnnnteresting. Tell me, what genotypes did you use determine this, and what would be the dominant/recessive traits?:P Also, this appears to be the result of a di-hybrid cross. I don't think that's what you're looking for.
Fly666monkey
10-24-07, 04:56 PM I suspect that most of their powers would either mix or cancel each other out.

wohoo my first thread is thriving:w00t: :bounce:
Callix
10-24-07, 05:19 PM I'd suggest a half-(father) (mother). So, for example, a celestial mother and a fiend father produces a half-fiend (insert type of celestial here). Alignment, usually neutral.
The_Wrath_of_Talos
10-25-07, 12:50 PM I'd say its possible, adding the fiend template to a celestial or a celestial template to a fiend, but once that was achieved I'd consider the offspring to be sterile like a mule.

Combining the racial traits will be the hardest part and the alignment related spell like abilities.

Plus would a celestial/fiend willingly use spell like abilities of the good/evil alignments? If they new they were doing good or harmful things what would they do? Their lineage would conflict so much they may just go insane. Reminds me of Mags from the Cale books in a way.
Fly666monkey
10-28-07, 03:03 PM I think a peradar (this creature's name now) would be Either good or evil, depending on who raised them. only those who were raised by mortals would be neutral.
Cateye
10-28-07, 03:23 PM Celestial +Fiend =confusion
Legdiwena
10-28-07, 03:42 PM I thought half-celestial/fiend didn't work on outsiders?
happy_fuzzy
10-28-07, 04:16 PM I would say that they choose their alignment (G or evil) then they decide that they are willing to use the spell-like abilities/etc. of their opposite half to advance their chosen alighnment. (Like a peradar choosing to be good but willing to use the [evil] spell-like abilties from half-fiend to advance th cause of good, sort of like the ends fit the means i guess.)
StruckingFuggle
10-28-07, 05:22 PM I thought half-celestial/fiend didn't work on outsiders?

It can; and if it couldn't, that's what DM Fiat is for.

That, or you create a new monster using the adjustments of the template but don't call it templated. :)
Fly666monkey
10-28-07, 06:15 PM I don't know why, but combining templates sounds like a bad idea. At least for creating a new race.
Slayer_Dragonwing
10-28-07, 11:10 PM I'd suggest a half-(father) (mother). So, for example, a celestial mother and a fiend father produces a half-fiend (insert type of celestial here). Alignment, usually neutral.

This is basically what I was going to suggest.

Also, I have a book, admittedly a 3rd party one, called Minions: Fearsome Foes that has stats for a creature like this. They're called the Forlorn, have 10 Hit Dice and are CR 12, they are mostly neutral and "spend their lives wandering the plains, searching vainly for a homem a cause, or something to belong to."

I must admit though, that I prefer the whole hald and half idea better, expecially if you use the alternate rules for half-fiends they used to have on this site, with different abilities depending on the fiendish parent's type.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fly666monkey 10-21-07, 11:37 PM	Is it covered anywhere what kind of creature is born from a Celestial and a Fiend? It would be an interesting race to play.
Kadasbrass 10-21-07, 11:50 PM	http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm4_gallery/98674.jpg Concordant Killer, Monster Manuel 4 Thou not really a playable race... its only thing I can think of out there.
happy_fuzzy 10-21-07, 11:55 PM	ya its CR is almost equal to a balor, but i suppose you could create somekind of aaismar/teifling hybrid
INeedNoSalt 10-21-07, 11:58 PM	ya its CR is almost equal to a balor, but i suppose you could create somekind of aaismar/teifling hybrid we call that a human
FrostHammer 10-22-07, 12:01 AM	So accordinglyto the Punnett square, 1/4 the time the offspring would be a regular human, 1/4 Tiefling, 1/4 Aasimar, and 1/4 planar outcast that both evil and good outsieders would scorn? :D
Fly666monkey 10-22-07, 01:02 AM	It would definitely be an outcast
zeratulcraft 10-22-07, 02:21 AM	Add Fiendish and Celestial to a base creature. Or, Half-Field/Half-Celestial.
imakuni67 10-22-07, 09:11 AM	that implies 3 parents though >.<
Jaxgaret 10-22-07, 12:32 PM	that implies 3 parents though >.< Not exactly. The half-breed rules state that the creature need not necessarily be the product of two 100% pure adults of two different races. I agree with the idea of applying both the Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial templates to a base creature which we'll call Base Creature, with the following racial traits: Medium Sized 30' base land movement No ability modifiers Known Languages: Common. Bonus Languages: Any. Favored Class: Any And then the Half-Celestial + Half-Fiend templates might produce the following changes: Size and Type The creature’s type changes to outsider. Do not recalculate the creature’s Hit Dice, base attack bonus, or saves. Size is unchanged. Half-celestial/half-fiends are normally native outsiders. Speed A half-celestial/half-fiend has feathered bat wings and can fly at 1.5x the base creature’s base land speed (good maneuverability). If the base creature has a fly speed, use that instead. Armor Class Natural armor improves by +1 (this stacks with any natural armor bonus the base creature has). Attack A half-fiend/half-celestial has two claw attacks that deal 1d4 damage due to their Medium size. If the base creature can use weapons, the half-fiend/half-celestial retains this ability. A half-fiend/half-celestial fighting without weapons uses a claw when making an attack action. When it has a weapon, it usually uses the weapon instead. Smite (Su) Once per day the creature can make a normal melee attack to deal extra damage equal to its HD (maximum of +20) against a foe. Spell-Like Abilities A half-celestial/half-fiend with an Intelligence or Wisdom score of 8 or higher has two or more spell-like abilities, depending on its Hit Dice, as indicated on the table below. The abilities are cumulative. Unless otherwise noted, an ability is usable once per day. Caster level equals the creature’s HD, and the save DC is Charisma-based. Special Qualities A half-fiend/half-celestial has all the special qualities of the base creature, plus the following special qualities. * Darkvision out to 60 feet. * Immunity to poison & disease. * Resistance to acid 20, cold 20, electricity 20, and fire 10. * Damage reduction: 5/magic (if HD 11 or less) or 10/magic (if HD 12 or more). * A half-fiend/half-celestial’s natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. * Spell resistance equal to creature’s HD + 10 (maximum 35). Abilities Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +8, Dex +6, Con +6, Int +6, Wis +4, Cha +6. The only thing that will need to be worked out is the list of spell-like abilities for the creature to have. I'd peg it at just about LA +6.
Fly666monkey 10-22-07, 02:53 PM	got an idea for a name: Peradar (Pear-uh-dar) Description: An unusual humanlike creature stands before you. It has golden skin and feathered wings, suggesting celestial blood, but is offset by horns and fiery eyes, suggesting something more sinister...
Wharin 10-22-07, 04:53 PM	So accordinglyto the Punnett square, 1/4 the time the offspring would be a regular human, 1/4 Tiefling, 1/4 Aasimar, and 1/4 planar outcast that both evil and good outsieders would scorn? :D Because the entirety of celestial, infernal, or racial identity is relegated to a single solitary pair of genes. Riiiiggght.... :rolleyes: This sarcasm isn't solely targeted at you, or even at you, per se. It just gets my goat when people seem to think that racial identity of hybrid conception can be "solved" with a single punnet square. Like saying a pair of half elves have a 25% chance of giving birth to a "full blooded" elf. Uh huh.
HCL 10-22-07, 05:36 PM	Because the entirety of celestial, infernal, or racial identity is relegated to a single solitary pair of genes. Riiiiggght.... :rolleyes: This sarcasm isn't solely targeted at you, or even at you, per se. It just gets my goat when people seem to think that racial identity of hybrid conception can be "solved" with a single punnet square. Like saying a pair of half elves have a 25% chance of giving birth to a "full blooded" elf. Uh huh. it was in the news a little while ago that two half african half caucasian people gave birth to twin baby girls one was full white one was full black ill find it http://www.snopes.com/photos/people/mixedtwins.asp
Wharin 10-22-07, 10:08 PM	Oh, I am fully aware of that story. But I maintain that a 1 in a million "miracle" and the 25% chance the punnet square provides are just about as far apart on the spectrum as you can get. Skin colour, in real world biology, arguably of little biological importance, is tied to dozens and dozens of trait pairings, which is why when people with different skin tones have children, their kids are typically somewhere in between parents and while they may be darker or lighter than either parent, those chances are faaar smaller than 25%. And this is with skin colour. WoOOoo. What makes an elf an elf or a celestial a celestial (things much more significant in my mind), if we are going to play the Gene Game, would much more likely be tied to many many many genes, so many that playing with punnet squares (aside from establishing eye and hair colour) becomes just about pointless. I have no problem for DM Fiat handwaving or intricate player backstories to allow these miracle one-shots. Its just that when people take what they learned in 6th grade Bio and run with it in extremely unrealistic, and overly simplified scenarios (being that the entire racial identity is tied to a single solitary trait pair) that kinda get to me. It just kinda cheapens it for me. Applying a science that we still don't completely understand yet to a world of magic just doesn't sit well with me. I dunno. If I am completely in the wrong, I'll shut up on the subject.
Jaxgaret 10-22-07, 10:17 PM	Nice speech, Wharin. Good points. But don't be so bitter about it, dude! They know not what they do... Be the shepherd. :)
Return of the Flumph 10-23-07, 01:28 AM	A friend of mine statted this. She called them "dark angels." They are mostly interplanar mercenaries, who are usually neither beloved nor scorned by either of their parent races. They tend to be neutral in alignment, and seem to be able to breed true. They are not emo-ridden angst machines; indeed, most of them enjoy their unique brand of independence. I thought her take on it was cool. Don't have stats, though.
sbroleplayer 10-23-07, 03:39 PM	I know this is my first post here, so I will start off with a sarcastic remark... There is already a Fiend/Celestial hybrid....watch the movie Little Nicky... I know, probably a bad joke, none the less. I mean it is very possible, fiend father rapes a celestial mother, and seeing I bet many of the celestial races view abortion as a bad thing, so id gather she'd carry the child full term. Personally I think it would be possible, not in the realm of balor, and definatly a CR or two higher than a tiefling or a aasimar...it would probably depend exactly on what ranking both the fiend and celestial would be. It would also depend on what special abilities the child would get. So hope I helped, if not...well, then just ignore the post
ToastedAmphibian 10-23-07, 03:54 PM	Or mabey a succubus just manages to convice an archon that shes a deva! Fun was had by all, till the archon fell of corse... (Now if you really want to have some fun, go up to random people on the street and start repeating that first sentence. See how many blanks stares you get. See how many people assume yoru insane/drunk)
Optimator 10-23-07, 05:14 PM	Infernals are also described as the result of such a union. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#infernal)
Jaxgaret 10-23-07, 05:29 PM	Infernals are also described as the result of such a union. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#infernal) Infernals are the result of a union between a fiend and a god - not a fiend and a celestial.
Fly666monkey 10-23-07, 08:57 PM	Can't Leave out heavy drinking!:D
StruckingFuggle 10-23-07, 11:39 PM	we call that a human ...what? No you don't. Also, either slap the halfs on a blank set of stats (no adjustments, no bonuses, nothing), or a half-fiendish celestial, or a half-celestial fiend, or something. Is what it'd probably be like.
Guardian1 10-24-07, 12:46 AM	So accordinglyto the Punnett square, 1/4 the time the offspring would be a regular human, 1/4 Tiefling, 1/4 Aasimar, and 1/4 planar outcast that both evil and good outsieders would scorn? :D Iiiiiiinnnnnnnteresting. Tell me, what genotypes did you use determine this, and what would be the dominant/recessive traits?:P Also, this appears to be the result of a di-hybrid cross. I don't think that's what you're looking for.
Fly666monkey 10-24-07, 04:56 PM	I suspect that most of their powers would either mix or cancel each other out. wohoo my first thread is thriving:w00t: :bounce:
Callix 10-24-07, 05:19 PM	I'd suggest a half-(father) (mother). So, for example, a celestial mother and a fiend father produces a half-fiend (insert type of celestial here). Alignment, usually neutral.
The_Wrath_of_Talos 10-25-07, 12:50 PM	I'd say its possible, adding the fiend template to a celestial or a celestial template to a fiend, but once that was achieved I'd consider the offspring to be sterile like a mule. Combining the racial traits will be the hardest part and the alignment related spell like abilities. Plus would a celestial/fiend willingly use spell like abilities of the good/evil alignments? If they new they were doing good or harmful things what would they do? Their lineage would conflict so much they may just go insane. Reminds me of Mags from the Cale books in a way.
Fly666monkey 10-28-07, 03:03 PM	I think a peradar (this creature's name now) would be Either good or evil, depending on who raised them. only those who were raised by mortals would be neutral.
Cateye 10-28-07, 03:23 PM	Celestial +Fiend =confusion
Legdiwena 10-28-07, 03:42 PM	I thought half-celestial/fiend didn't work on outsiders?
happy_fuzzy 10-28-07, 04:16 PM	I would say that they choose their alignment (G or evil) then they decide that they are willing to use the spell-like abilities/etc. of their opposite half to advance their chosen alighnment. (Like a peradar choosing to be good but willing to use the [evil] spell-like abilties from half-fiend to advance th cause of good, sort of like the ends fit the means i guess.)
StruckingFuggle 10-28-07, 05:22 PM	I thought half-celestial/fiend didn't work on outsiders? It can; and if it couldn't, that's what DM Fiat is for. That, or you create a new monster using the adjustments of the template but don't call it templated. :)
Fly666monkey 10-28-07, 06:15 PM	I don't know why, but combining templates sounds like a bad idea. At least for creating a new race.
Slayer_Dragonwing 10-28-07, 11:10 PM	I'd suggest a half-(father) (mother). So, for example, a celestial mother and a fiend father produces a half-fiend (insert type of celestial here). Alignment, usually neutral. This is basically what I was going to suggest. Also, I have a book, admittedly a 3rd party one, called Minions: Fearsome Foes that has stats for a creature like this. They're called the Forlorn, have 10 Hit Dice and are CR 12, they are mostly neutral and "spend their lives wandering the plains, searching vainly for a homem a cause, or something to belong to." I must admit though, that I prefer the whole hald and half idea better, expecially if you use the alternate rules for half-fiends they used to have on this site, with different abilities depending on the fiendish parent's type.