Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Argo 05-14-07, 04:30 PM	A Centaur's level adjustment basically means that in order to play one, I would have to lose 6 levels, unless I'm misunderstanding how level adjustment works. It's Racial HD + the LA = how many levels you lose, right? I had never really bothered trying to understand LA until last night when I randomly decided to create a Centaur Druid, and when I looked up how to do it, I realized that a Centaur could never really play a caster, because they'd be firing off 1st level spells when everybody else was invisible and flying.. I don't think I really have a question, I'm just kind of peeved that a race as cool as Centaurs is so pigeonholed. Who's with me?! We want more Centaurs! A Few Famous Quotes About Centaurs: We have nothing to fear but fear and centaurs. -Franklin Delano Roosevelt I am not a centaur! -Richard Milhous Nixon I did not... have... sexual... relations with that centaur. -William Jefferson Clinton Ask not what a centaur can do for you. Ask what you can do for a centaur. -John Fitzgerald Kennedy Ich bin ein centaur. -John Fitzgerald Kennedy Purple haze, all in my brain. Lately things just don't seem the same. Actin' funny, but I don't know what for. 'Scuse me while I kiss this centaur. -Jimi Hendrix I have a centaur. -Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.
fiendish_platypus 05-14-07, 04:52 PM	It's Racial HD + the LA = how many levels you lose, right? I don't think 'lose' is the best way to put it, the equation goes like this... Racial HD (Hit Dice) + LA (Level Adjustment) = ECL (Effective Character Level)
obrysii 05-14-07, 04:55 PM	Correct. However, bare in mind that you DO have 4 HD worth of monsterous humanoid...so it's not a *total* loss. However, you would start off at level 7 (4 HD + 2 LA + 1 class level).
Argaud 05-14-07, 07:07 PM	A Centaur's level adjustment basically means that in order to play one, I would have to lose 6 levels, unless I'm misunderstanding how level adjustment works. It's Racial HD + the LA = how many levels you lose, right? I had never really bothered trying to understand LA until last night when I randomly decided to create a Centaur Druid, and when I looked up how to do it, I realized that a Centaur could never really play a caster, because they'd be firing off 1st level spells when everybody else was invisible and flying.. I don't think I really have a question, I'm just kind of peeved that a race as cool as Centaurs is so pigeonholed. A race is not useless because they can't do well as primary casters. Centaurs are large and wield big weapons (although they lack reach, alas!) they have excellent ability modifiers, they are very fast on the tactical map. You need to exploit those advantages is you want to build a powerful character.
Argo 05-14-07, 07:42 PM	I only regret that I have but one life to give for my centaur. -Nathan Hale
Argo 05-14-07, 07:46 PM	I know that a race isn't usless because it can't be a primary caster. I've never even played a primary caster. I played a Bard once for two levels... I just had a cool character concept for a Centaur Druid, but alas...'twill never be.
Majick 05-14-07, 11:54 PM	Don't see why it won't work, you'll still probably outdamage the fighter in melee till you get druid levels anyway; you'll be a tank till you can cast, then, you'll be a tank who can cast a little bit :P
Tectorman 05-15-07, 02:13 PM	"May the Centaur be with you." - Yoda "CENTAAAUR!!!" - Admiral James T. Kirk "His Centaur... it's over NINE THOOOUSAAAAAND!!!" - Vegeta
Nat_20 05-15-07, 02:23 PM	"His Centaur... it's over NINE THOOOUSAAAAAND!!!" - Vegeta :heehee I am not a big fan of the whole level adjustment system, but i cant really think of anything else we can do... so what ever "Helloooooo Centaur" the Warner Brothers, and the Warner Sister.
Thief_of_Hope 05-15-07, 02:57 PM	I found this a while ago: http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-582193.html It's a centaur someone on the boards came up with that has neither racial HD nor a LA. It actually seems rather balanced to me, but I don't know what anyone else thinks of it or what your DM will allow. But if you can use this, you ought to be able to put your character concept into action. The balance comes from the fact that, although they are monstrous humanoids and still large size, they've lost both the auto-simple weapon proficiency and darkvision of monstrous humanoid, and they only have the weapon capabilities and reach of a medium creature. See what you think.
Argo 05-15-07, 08:25 PM	Mr. Centaur, tear down this wall! -Ronald Reagan
Frogmantis 05-15-07, 08:43 PM	Yeah, ECL for monster characters just came and struck me in the face recently as well. I'm still getting over the now outrageous ECL +7 for my satyr scout i'm going to have to deal with... ... ...sometimes I hate DnD. But Centaurs are so great, and they talk about how centaurs are famous and awesome bards, and how they teach other bards... but they'd have to be epic level equivalent to gain access to their highest level spells...
Frogmantis 05-15-07, 08:44 PM	Oh, and, uh... "God, I love being a CENTAUR!!!" -TMNT the movie.
Tectorman 05-17-07, 12:54 PM	"With great power comes great centaurs." -Uncle Ben
MagicMouth 05-17-07, 01:01 PM	"Madness? THIS IS CENTAUR!!" -300
Tectorman 05-17-07, 01:15 PM	"Madness? THIS IS CENTAUR!!" -300 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: *snort* "Whoa. I know Centaur Fu." -Neo, The Matrix "I am a Centaur in a wheelchair!" -(from the guy that made "Monster in a Wheelchair")
darkdragonk 05-17-07, 08:57 PM	"Madness? THIS IS CENTAUR!!" -300 Dammit! You beat me to it. ;p
Majick 05-17-07, 09:31 PM	You call that a centaur? This is a centaur! :D - Crocodile Dundee Asta la vista, centaur :cool: - Terminator ...for centaur *charges* - Aragorn (very last battle scene in Lord of the Rings) :P
obrysii 05-17-07, 10:52 PM	"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the centaur."
Neutronium_Dragon 05-17-07, 11:10 PM	Well, if you want to be able to do caster-like stuff without being as severely impacted by the ECL, you could look at the Swordsage from the Tome of Battle. Centaurs might actually be reasonable in that role since their base stats are pretty decent for it and the racial hit dice don't hurt as badly (since they'll count towards initiator level at half-value, just like multiclassing). You'll still be a couple of maneuver levels behind a standard race, but the physical bonuses should help to make up for that (especially since your melee attack bonus will probably be higher, and that's usually a problem area for swordsages).
Nathreet 05-17-07, 11:25 PM	I see his point, though really it's the multi-classed caster problem. Casters with levels in anything else (even LA & HD), are weaker than pure casters. Centuars are better at being warriors. IMO, DnD needs to fix the multi-classed caster problem so that people can play centuar druids, elven fighter/wizards, etc.
Argo 05-18-07, 12:03 AM	It's a Centaur!!! -Admiral Ackbar Bill S. Preston, Esquire and Ted Theodore Logan are... WYLD CYNTAURS! -Bill & Ted We don't need no education. We don't need no thought control. Dark sarcasm in the classroom. Centaurs, leave those kids alone. ...HEY! CENTAUR! LEAVE THEM KIDS ALONE! -Pink Floyd
Frogmantis 05-18-07, 03:02 AM	well, keep in mind, the best way to offset having the schewed racial is to have the racial hit die give you something in return; like the aasimar sorcerer with the +2 cha.
Forgember 05-18-07, 04:54 AM	"Say hello to my little Centaur!" Scarface "I'm not even suposed to be Centaur today..." Dante Hicks "You can take our land but you'll never take our CENTAUR!!!" William Wallace Oh... I say just dump Racial Hit Dice and Level Adjust all together, never had it in any other addition of the game not sure why they have it now.
Tectorman 05-18-07, 03:26 PM	"That [Centaur] was so bad, I think it gave me cancer!" -Teeveez Calculon, Futurama (I bet you didn't know his first name actually was Teeveez, did you?) "Bite my shiny metal Centaur!" -Bender B. Rodriguez, Futurama "Whose Centaur do you have to hump to get a dry martini around here?" -Brian Griffon, Family Guy And finally, in honor of a man whose distinguished 50-year career is finally coming to a close... "I'm Bob Barker, reminding you to help control the Centaur population. Have your Centaurs spayed or neutered. Good-bye, everybody." -Bob Barker, The Price is Right
The_Shaman 05-19-07, 07:29 AM	I actually thought about a half-dragon centaur (fly speed, insane strength, even more natural attacks - and there's a feat that lets you breathe deep every 1d4 rounds when you have a total of 6 HDs in Dragon Magic or RotD, iirc), but the LA +5 is quite tough. I think a centaur ranger can be quite decent, has anyone tried? "The only two certain things in life are death and centaurs" "Centaurs of the World, unite!" "The centaur can't be buggered at all"
Phalo 05-21-07, 01:23 PM	Why not go with a sub race based more on a light horse (instead of heavy warhorse) and call them island centaurs. This subspecies was derived as a group was stranded on a large island for many thousand of years slowly losing the size that is a hindrance on an island. medium str +2 dex -2 con +2 Wis -2 spd 40 lowlight vision see twice as far as a human in darkness +1 to natural ac bonus feat: Endurance +2 to swim +3 survivial checks -4 climb la+1 peach
obrysii 05-21-07, 02:13 PM	Odd ability adjustments aren't allowed.
Tectorman 05-21-07, 02:19 PM	"If there's nothing wrong with me, there must be something wrong with the Centaur." -Dr. Beverly Crusher, Star Trek: The Next Generation "Compare your Centaurs to mine and then kill yourselves." -Bender B. Rodriguez, Futurama "Centaur, apply directly to your forehead." -the most annoying commercial on TV
DrWorm 05-21-07, 06:41 PM	Okay I am not really good at making balanced species, but could someone posite some stats on what a small sized Centaurian would be? I am thinking based off a Mountain Goat.
Teron Gorefiend 05-21-07, 06:52 PM	Oh... I say just dump Racial Hit Dice and Level Adjust all together, never had it in any other addition of the game not sure why they have it now. Um... they have those now so you can actually play monsters and other races stronger than the baseline. Or do you think the original poster should just play a centaur druid alongside his friends' level 1 elf and dwarf? "If you know the centaur and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the centaur, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the centaur nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle." - Sun Tzu, the Art of War "Throw me the centaur; I'll throw you the whip!" -Satipo, Raiders of the Lost Ark
Phalo 05-21-07, 11:39 PM	Odd ability adjustments aren't allowed. Ya know i never really noticed that i will fix it in the post i was going off the stats of a light horse
Draculator 05-22-07, 04:58 AM	Greetings! Actually, the LA of centaurs is supposed to be errata'd from +3 to +2 in 3.5 as I have read in a years-old thread - however, I am unable to locate such errata. It's neither in MM 3.5 errata nor in MM3 errata. Does anybody know? Thx in advance! -Drac
runestar 05-22-07, 05:14 AM	The 3.5 MM lists the centaur's LA as +2. No errata was required (or rather, the errata was already in the core material itself). Races of the wild also has the SS progression of the new ECL6 centaur.:)
Draculator 05-22-07, 06:30 AM	Thank you very much for that info. I then was simply mislead by the word errata. Looking at that table for centaur level advancement in Races Of The Wild that you mentioned, does this mean that, if I am allowed to spend 20,000 XP on a new character (like for a level 5 human fighter), I could not simply add 2 adjustment levels for the centaur and then 3 fighter levels, but will have to wait until after level 6 before adding any fighter levels? I always you only had to spend XP due to LA, not additionally due to racial HD. Would you or someone else please help me clarify how I as a beginner of 3.0/3.5 (playing 3.5 though) can work my centaur for 20,000 XP? That would be so great, one or two sentences would help me a lot! :-) Thx in advance! -Drac
runestar 05-22-07, 07:08 AM	ECL is defined as HD + LA. Thus, a centaur is treated as the equivalent of a 6th lv character (4 racial HD, +2LA), and you are expected to finish the SS progression before you are allowed to take your first class lv. Simply put, you become a full fledged centaur when you have accumulated 15,000xp, and must be at least lv7 (ie: have at least 21,000xp) before you are eligible for your 1st class lv.:) Thus, in your case, you start out as a full-powered centaur PC (with stats generated accordingly in your game - ie: roll/point buy whatever, then add its racial stat modifiers on top of them). You then need an extra 1000xp before you hit lv7, and can start taking your 1st class lv. Note that feats and the extra stat boosts every 4th lv are based off your total HD, not ECL. As such, you get your 3rd feat when you have 6 HD (or when you have taken your 2nd class lv), and just calculate based off that accordingly.:) I am not sure if you get your +1 stat boost for your 4th racial HD (npcs clearly don't), but I will leave that to your dm to decide.
Draculator 05-22-07, 09:04 AM	First of all, thx for helping me out clarifying this. I did read the intros and appropriate chapter intros and the centaur entries in Races Of The Wild and Races Of Faerun, was still did not find precise wording on wether you actually spent XP on racial HD instead just getting their benefits (so I used to think that only LAs were to be paid for in XP and had all the racial HD benefits (in the case of Centaur, Wemic, ...) included as a bonus benefit in addition to ability score modifiers and such). Regarding full-fledged centaur at 15,000 XP: I don't have the XP table here right now, but I remember only being able to attain just the beginning of 5th lv if only 20,000 XP are available. In contrast, the full-fledged Centaur I have now understood to cost 6 levels. Or is the 20,000 XP border for beginning 5th lv from 3.0 and the 3.5 border is 9,000? I feel really stupid having to ask this right now. Pls don't bash me, folks. :-) Because if it really is 9,000 in 3.5, then that is what I would have available (my DM allows a starting character with the same XP as a 5th lv human fighter). -Drac
EarthTremor 05-22-07, 09:12 AM	I found this a while ago: http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-582193.html It's a centaur someone on the boards came up with that has neither racial HD nor a LA. It actually seems rather balanced to me, but I don't know what anyone else thinks of it or what your DM will allow. But if you can use this, you ought to be able to put your character concept into action. The balance comes from the fact that, although they are monstrous humanoids and still large size, they've lost both the auto-simple weapon proficiency and darkvision of monstrous humanoid, and they only have the weapon capabilities and reach of a medium creature. See what you think. Freaky. I was actually just in the process of developing a no-LA no-racial HD centaur myself. Seems we've both hit on some similar ideas too, like using weapons as a medium creature rather than large. Mongoose publishing has a book on centaurs too, but their no-LA centaur was hideously broken.
runestar 05-22-07, 09:53 AM	If I remember my math correctly, the formula for determining the total amount of xp needed to attain lv X is 0.5 X(X-1)*1000xp (I presented it in this format as it should be easier multiplying a number by 1000 than by 500.:) Thus, you would only need 15,000xp to reach lv6, not 5. This should not have changed from the transition to 3.5, so you should have no problems playing a centaur right from the get go.
Draculator 05-22-07, 10:04 AM	Thx, man!!
Gr8tyrant 05-22-07, 10:22 AM	my group uses a homebrew centaur. it has proven to be pretty decent but does have a small LA. • +2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence • Large: As a Large creature, a centaur gets a -1 size penalty to Armor Class, a -1 size penalty on attack rolls, a +4 size bonus on grapple checks, and a -4 size penalty on Hide checks, but lifting and carrying limits are triple those of Medium sized characters. • Centaur base land speed is 50 feet. • Space/Reach: 10 feet/5 feet. • Darkvision: Centaurs can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and dwarves can function just fine with no light at all. • +2 racial bonus on Listen, Spot, and Survival. • Hooves: A centaur has two hoof attacks that are natural weapons dealing 1d6 damage plus 1/2 Strength bonus. • Automatic Languages: Common and Sylvan. Bonus Languages: Elven, Gnome, and Halfling. • Favored Class: Druid. A multicalss centaur's druid class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing. • Level Adjustment +1: Centaurs are slightly more powerful and gain levels more slowly then most of the other common races.
The_Shaman 05-22-07, 10:24 AM	Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. I am a centaur; prepare to die.