Confusion with Thri-Kreen Race and LA [Archive] - Wizards Community

Confusion with Thri-Kreen Race and LA [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
sandstrm7
04-07-07, 09:18 PM Ok, I am starting up a new campaign with some friends of mine. We had a campaign going that kind of died out due to our busy schedules, but now we have some free time and want to start up again. The plan is to start at a character level of 7 for our characters. In the previous campaign, I was a Human Ninja 6/Fighter 1 specializing in TWF. This time around I want to be a Ninja again, but I have been looking at various different books and posts on the messageboards for ideas of different races to use. I encountered a suggestion for a Thri-Kreen Ninja, and I became very intrigued when I read up a little about it.

I read up about the Thri-Kreen race in Monster Manual II, Expanded Psionics, FR - Shining South, and Complete Psionic. I understand some of the racial traits like the +2 Str, +4 Dex, -2 Int, +2 Wis, and -4 Char, 40 ft base land speed, darkvision, +3 natural armor, natural attacks, multiple limbs, and leap. But I am extremely confused with how the Racial Skills, Feats, Hit Dice, and LA work exactly. Specifically, I do not understand how LA and HD work exactly with Ninja class level. I read the DMG about this, and it only confused me even more. So, I tried to look at posts on the Wizards boards, and found the thread about Thri-Kreen being broken. Someone posted that Thri-Kreen get -10 to swimming and -4 to escape artist, as well as some other penalties. But where the hell did this person pull this info from? Which book does this come from? These penalties were not stated in any of the books that I read.

Can someone help me understand how to make a CR of 7 of a non-psionic Thri-Kreen Ninja? What level Ninja would I be? When do I take feats? How do the racial HD work with the Ninja class HD? I am extremely confused and pretty much need to know everything. PLEASE HELP!!!
runestar
04-07-07, 09:50 PM First off, do you mean cr or ECL?
If you plan on playing a thri-keen ninja as a PC, you will use ECL. A non-psionic thrikeen has 2 monstrous humanoid HD, and LA+1, for a total ECL of 3. This means that a thrikeen without any class lvs is treated as the equivalent of a 3rd lv character for purposes of xp needed to lv, and treasure. You would need the xp of a 4th lv character before you are eligible for your 1st class lv.

For a ECL7 thrikeen ninja, this would mean you have 4 ninja lvs to spare, after taking into account its starting ECL of 3. So you are a thrikeen ninja4. Add the bab, saves etc from the ninja on top of the existing stats you generated for your thrikeen. Your feats and stat boost every 4th lv are determined by your total number of HD. This means you get another feat at your 1st and 4th lv of ninja(when you get your 3rd and 6th HD), and a stat boost at ninja2(when you have 4HD).
sandstrm7
04-07-07, 10:50 PM ok, that clears up a lot of my confusion. Thank you for the explanation, runestar.

I do have a few more questions though. Which book does the -10 to swimming and -4 to escape artist come from? Also, which version of the non-psionic Thri-Kreen race (MMII, XPH, FB: Shining Star, or Complete Psionic) should I follow?
runestar
04-07-07, 11:09 PM Which book does the -10 to swimming and -4 to escape artist come from?
I have no idea, since this is not reflected in my books in any way. If you are getting from the other thread, it was meant as a houserule to balance them out if you felt they were overpowered.
Also, which version of the non-psionic Thri-Kreen race (MMII, XPH, FB: Shining Star, or Complete Psionic) should I follow?
I think you can safely use either the XPH version or the mm2/shining south version. The psionic version is probably meant for use in a psionic-oriented setting, while the latter in a non-psionic campaign. Of course, the lower LA makes the normal version more tempting...:P
sandstrm7
04-07-07, 11:50 PM I have no idea, since this is not reflected in my books in any way. If you are getting from the other thread, it was meant as a houserule to balance them out if you felt they were overpowered.

Ok, that was what I was thinking as well, but I wanted to double-check. Since the Thri-Kreen has appeared in 4 different books, I would not have been surprised to discover that it appears in a completely different one as well.

I think you can safely use either the XPH version or the mm2/shining south version. The psionic version is probably meant for use in a psionic-oriented setting, while the latter in a non-psionic campaign. Of course, the lower LA makes the normal version more tempting...:P

Ok, cool, thanks for advice. Yes, the lower LA with all the really cool racial traits makes me really excited to use this race. The traits that have me salivating are the +30 Jump, +2 Wisdom, +3 Natural Armor, and four arms!!! I could have a lot of fun using a Ninja with these modifiers. Now I just have to hope that my DM allows me to use this race. Otherwise, I might have to go with a Whisper Gnome Ninja, which would be a completely different type of character with a completely different fighting style.
Cifer
04-08-07, 08:40 PM I wouldn't advise the MM2 since it's 3.0, though I don't know how much has changed since then.
sandstrm7
04-08-07, 10:49 PM I wouldn't advise the MM2 since it's 3.0, though I don't know how much has changed since then.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing as well. My DM only wants 3.5 descriptions for races, classes, items, etc. But it appears that there have not been any changes from the MMII 3.0 version to the XPH or FB: Shining South 3.5 version. But I will definitely take your advice and use the 3.5 version.

Thanks.
runestar
04-08-07, 11:24 PM There is a 3.5 update for the MM2 available for free download off the wotc site. This would technically make the MM2 thri-keen 3.5 compliant.:)
sandstrm7
04-09-07, 12:18 AM There is a 3.5 update for the MM2 available for free download off the wotc site. This would technically make the MM2 thri-keen 3.5 compliant.:)

AWESOME!!! Thanks for the info, runestar!!! I will definitely have to check out this download!!!
runestar
04-09-07, 12:25 AM Here you go (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a), if you have not already found it.:)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sandstrm7 04-07-07, 09:18 PM	Ok, I am starting up a new campaign with some friends of mine. We had a campaign going that kind of died out due to our busy schedules, but now we have some free time and want to start up again. The plan is to start at a character level of 7 for our characters. In the previous campaign, I was a Human Ninja 6/Fighter 1 specializing in TWF. This time around I want to be a Ninja again, but I have been looking at various different books and posts on the messageboards for ideas of different races to use. I encountered a suggestion for a Thri-Kreen Ninja, and I became very intrigued when I read up a little about it. I read up about the Thri-Kreen race in Monster Manual II, Expanded Psionics, FR - Shining South, and Complete Psionic. I understand some of the racial traits like the +2 Str, +4 Dex, -2 Int, +2 Wis, and -4 Char, 40 ft base land speed, darkvision, +3 natural armor, natural attacks, multiple limbs, and leap. But I am extremely confused with how the Racial Skills, Feats, Hit Dice, and LA work exactly. Specifically, I do not understand how LA and HD work exactly with Ninja class level. I read the DMG about this, and it only confused me even more. So, I tried to look at posts on the Wizards boards, and found the thread about Thri-Kreen being broken. Someone posted that Thri-Kreen get -10 to swimming and -4 to escape artist, as well as some other penalties. But where the hell did this person pull this info from? Which book does this come from? These penalties were not stated in any of the books that I read. Can someone help me understand how to make a CR of 7 of a non-psionic Thri-Kreen Ninja? What level Ninja would I be? When do I take feats? How do the racial HD work with the Ninja class HD? I am extremely confused and pretty much need to know everything. PLEASE HELP!!!
runestar 04-07-07, 09:50 PM	First off, do you mean cr or ECL? If you plan on playing a thri-keen ninja as a PC, you will use ECL. A non-psionic thrikeen has 2 monstrous humanoid HD, and LA+1, for a total ECL of 3. This means that a thrikeen without any class lvs is treated as the equivalent of a 3rd lv character for purposes of xp needed to lv, and treasure. You would need the xp of a 4th lv character before you are eligible for your 1st class lv. For a ECL7 thrikeen ninja, this would mean you have 4 ninja lvs to spare, after taking into account its starting ECL of 3. So you are a thrikeen ninja4. Add the bab, saves etc from the ninja on top of the existing stats you generated for your thrikeen. Your feats and stat boost every 4th lv are determined by your total number of HD. This means you get another feat at your 1st and 4th lv of ninja(when you get your 3rd and 6th HD), and a stat boost at ninja2(when you have 4HD).
sandstrm7 04-07-07, 10:50 PM	ok, that clears up a lot of my confusion. Thank you for the explanation, runestar. I do have a few more questions though. Which book does the -10 to swimming and -4 to escape artist come from? Also, which version of the non-psionic Thri-Kreen race (MMII, XPH, FB: Shining Star, or Complete Psionic) should I follow?
runestar 04-07-07, 11:09 PM	Which book does the -10 to swimming and -4 to escape artist come from? I have no idea, since this is not reflected in my books in any way. If you are getting from the other thread, it was meant as a houserule to balance them out if you felt they were overpowered. Also, which version of the non-psionic Thri-Kreen race (MMII, XPH, FB: Shining Star, or Complete Psionic) should I follow? I think you can safely use either the XPH version or the mm2/shining south version. The psionic version is probably meant for use in a psionic-oriented setting, while the latter in a non-psionic campaign. Of course, the lower LA makes the normal version more tempting...:P
sandstrm7 04-07-07, 11:50 PM	I have no idea, since this is not reflected in my books in any way. If you are getting from the other thread, it was meant as a houserule to balance them out if you felt they were overpowered. Ok, that was what I was thinking as well, but I wanted to double-check. Since the Thri-Kreen has appeared in 4 different books, I would not have been surprised to discover that it appears in a completely different one as well. I think you can safely use either the XPH version or the mm2/shining south version. The psionic version is probably meant for use in a psionic-oriented setting, while the latter in a non-psionic campaign. Of course, the lower LA makes the normal version more tempting...:P Ok, cool, thanks for advice. Yes, the lower LA with all the really cool racial traits makes me really excited to use this race. The traits that have me salivating are the +30 Jump, +2 Wisdom, +3 Natural Armor, and four arms!!! I could have a lot of fun using a Ninja with these modifiers. Now I just have to hope that my DM allows me to use this race. Otherwise, I might have to go with a Whisper Gnome Ninja, which would be a completely different type of character with a completely different fighting style.
Cifer 04-08-07, 08:40 PM	I wouldn't advise the MM2 since it's 3.0, though I don't know how much has changed since then.
sandstrm7 04-08-07, 10:49 PM	I wouldn't advise the MM2 since it's 3.0, though I don't know how much has changed since then. Yes, I was thinking the same thing as well. My DM only wants 3.5 descriptions for races, classes, items, etc. But it appears that there have not been any changes from the MMII 3.0 version to the XPH or FB: Shining South 3.5 version. But I will definitely take your advice and use the 3.5 version. Thanks.
runestar 04-08-07, 11:24 PM	There is a 3.5 update for the MM2 available for free download off the wotc site. This would technically make the MM2 thri-keen 3.5 compliant.:)
sandstrm7 04-09-07, 12:18 AM	There is a 3.5 update for the MM2 available for free download off the wotc site. This would technically make the MM2 thri-keen 3.5 compliant.:) AWESOME!!! Thanks for the info, runestar!!! I will definitely have to check out this download!!!
runestar 04-09-07, 12:25 AM	Here you go (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a), if you have not already found it.:)