Construct PC ??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Construct PC ??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
nighttree
05-24-07, 10:53 AM I have been trying (for some time) to come up with a construct (not a Living construct) as a player character.

Think fantasy version of Data from ST, or the Vision from the Avengers comics.

What I am looking at is .......

Human Prodigy 3 + Effigy template (creator was an 18th level Effigy master with the rudimentory Intelligence feat).

Then hit it with "Awaken Construct" spell.

Questions I'm trying to answer are

Between the feat and the spell...is it reasonable for it to regain the skill points it lost from the Effigy template ???

The effigy template has no listed LA (as in was not intended for PC use) but since it's the only thing I can find....any guess as to what LA it would be???
Light_Colonel
05-24-07, 11:49 AM What do the Stat bonuses work out to be?

What immunities does it have?

If it has uneven bonuses to stats, it should be at LEAST +1 for that. If the bonuses are really lopsided, then +2 or even +3. The Immunities are tricky. I would say that with the Construct Immunities (factoring in the "bonus" immunitiy of having no CON score), minus the Immunity to mind-affecting, it would be at least +2.

Then of course it has no CON Score, but gains bonus HP based on its size. Since you are medium, this will end up being more of a penalty to you than a bonus, so I would give a -1 to what we have so far. Since your Construct is created... I would say that if you just get a pre-set statblock, then you get a -1 to the LA. If you roll for stats though, than no reduction for that.

So if my math is working ok, I would say somewhere around +3 LA, or +2 if you have a standard monster statblock of 10s and 11s plus adjustments.
Khatoblepas
05-24-07, 12:21 PM Take the abilities from the Human Paragon, add it to the race. Effigies lose any and all class levels, as they don't have an intelligence score. 3RHD +1LA should do the trick, really. Construct HD is AWFUL, and as they don't have a Constitution score, d10s don't matter.

3RHD (Construct, Cleric BAB, poor saves) +1 LA, in exchange for two bonus feats, bonus skill points, and the immunities sound fair. I'd even go so far as to give them something like the Maug's special skills (6+Int rather than 2+Int for their HD, maybe?). They don't gain as many class abilities, but are tough and smart. But they're still just machines, and as such aren't incredibly heroic in their saving throws. +2 Str, +2 Int, -2 Cha, maybe?
nighttree
05-24-07, 12:23 PM The Paragon was created with a 32pt buy...5 pts to all stat's except Dex and Int (6pts to those) which puts him at
Str 13
Dex 14 + 2 ability boost (from human paragon class) = Dex 16
Con 13
Int 14
Wis 13
Cha 13.

The Effigy template changes those to...
Str 17 (+4 str)
Dex 14 (-2 Dex)
Con NA
Int 0 (set)
Wis 11 (set)
Cha 1 (set)

"Awaken Construct" spell brings Int, Wis, and Cha up to 3D6 (so a max of 18 for each ability)....but I was planning on just "defaulting" back to what was purchased from point buy.

As far as immunities go....he would gain all immunities listed in the "construct" type.
Khatoblepas
05-24-07, 12:45 PM He'd lose all the paragon levels. Creatures with no intelligence score cannot have class levels. Even gaining the intelligence back does not restore the levels. And if he took class levels after awaken construct, he couldn't take the paragon levels because he isn't a human, he's a robot shaped like a human.
Light_Colonel
05-24-07, 01:04 PM I didn't catch the part where this was a human Paragon. Khatoblepas is right, all those abilities are lost.

You would be better off just saying it is a Human Effigy with no levels or HD, so you just have "the race", then it can take levels, perhaps in a designed "Construct Paragon" class?
NerdNumber1
05-24-07, 01:31 PM Before this gets too complex, have you checked out the warforged? I'm not saying that it is fit for your purposes, but it will save you a lot of time if it is. And being made out of adamantium is fun.
nighttree
05-24-07, 10:18 PM He'd lose all the paragon levels. Creatures with no intelligence score cannot have class levels. Even gaining the intelligence back does not restore the levels. And if he took class levels after awaken construct, he couldn't take the paragon levels because he isn't a human, he's a robot shaped like a human.

It's creator has the rudimentory Intelligance feat, which allows you to create constructs with Int equal to half your level...so he has an intelligence right from the start....and can retain his Paragon class levels.....:D
nighttree
05-24-07, 10:20 PM Before this gets too complex, have you checked out the warforged? I'm not saying that it is fit for your purposes, but it will save you a lot of time if it is. And being made out of adamantium is fun.

Ya....I looked....but the Warforged don't really fit what I'm trying for...I was trying to stay away from the "living construct" idea.
NerdNumber1
05-25-07, 08:40 AM Ya....I looked....but the Warforged don't really fit what I'm trying for...I was trying to stay away from the "living construct" idea.

Oh well, it was worth a look, but once you start going adamantium, start looking into libris mortis (some of the feats that give you undead traits, which are oddly similar to construct traits) and possibly going into that one warforged prestige class, you start looking more and more a construct. Anyway, I have thought about an inteligent golem much. It is better left for non-ruled online play-by-posts or as constructed cohort-like characters, but here it is:

Take one golem (I choose an iron golem because they are awsome)
Give it an inteligent item (I suggest you make it, so you can make sure that its personality is ok for your party)
Order the golem to submit to the item's dominance (i.e. voluntarily fail all domination attemps)

There you have it, an inteligent golem. I would do farther and inbed the item into the golem's body, so it won't have to worry about disarming. They load it up with magical items (my first form of inteligent golems in Gareth's Arena had two items integrated into its hands: a rust gauntlet(protects the wearer from rust) and a special hombrew gauntlet that allows fireballs on comand (it was actually extremely heavy, but it really doesn't matter for a golem). You could also use this idea for a lesser construct, but I wouldn't use this for a pc class. This would more be used to get your mage one hell of a bodyguard(sp). I don't have access to the template you speak of so I can't help you there.
nighttree
05-25-07, 10:15 AM Just found the "Maug" from FF.....as well as some "level adjusted" versions.....If I house ruled that he stopped at 4th level (before becoming large....I don't want large..)
I end up with an ECL 4 character that makes a pretty close approximation of what I want......:D
runestar
05-25-07, 10:19 AM You can try slapping on the incarnate template onto the MAUG.
The result? +10str for only ECL3...:D
El_Machinae
05-25-07, 10:29 AM Maug works really well for what you want, I think. And taking away the Large might be worth losing a point of LA.

With a construct, you'd almost want a rolling LA, based on level. The +30 hp a Maug gets at early levels are a really good "shadow" constitution bonus. Later on though, dividing 30 by the HD of the character means their effective Con bonus is lower.

(In other words, +30 hp at 5 ECL is pretty damned good. It's almost like have a Con bonus of +6 per level. At 20 ECL, though, it's not so hot.)

Since you're making a medium character, this isn't so important.
nighttree
05-25-07, 10:37 AM By not taking the 5th level...all I loose is 5HP, +2 Str, +1 NA, Large Size, and Pulverize 1/day (not interested in the Pulverize ability anyway).

I wonder what would be a "fair" DR trade for the Puverize ability...???
sabrewolf
05-25-07, 07:40 PM I lack most of my books right now (am on work), so i´m just voicing an idea really... I´d need to compare the construct traits with the warforged, yet i´ll sugest it anyway.

The warforged could be what you are seeking, or at least half the way to archieve your goal... From what I remember from the eberron book, it is already balanced (i.e. made a PC race) and have a handfull of feats for body customisation bessides at least one prc made for them.

The trick would be on getting rid of the "living construct" part... Maybe the living construct tmplate could be the key, if used backwards (or of it turns you into a full flesh being, use "half" the template)... If needed, toss the awaken construct on top of it if the end result lacks inteligence / sentience...

Just my :twocents: worth point of view..
Good luck... and take care..
Sleepwalker13666
05-25-07, 08:23 PM This probably isn't what your looking for, but perhaps it might help:

On page 137 of the Fiend Folio there is a plantouched race called the Mechanatrix, they are only a lv adj of 1.
nighttree
05-25-07, 08:59 PM This probably isn't what your looking for, but perhaps it might help:

On page 137 of the Fiend Folio there is a plantouched race called the Mechanatrix, they are only a lv adj of 1.

Thanks for the pointer to the Mechantrix Sleepwalker.
They are actually a little to "organic"....but it was worth looking into....:D

I actually think the level adjusted Maug is going to work perfectly (of course he will look nothing like a Maug....:P ).
But It hit's every point I wanted (well....except DR).
nighttree
05-25-07, 09:17 PM You can try slapping on the incarnate template onto the MAUG.
The result? +10str for only ECL3...:D

:confused: I must be looking at a "different" Incarnate construct template. The one from SS takes EVERYTHING that makes you a construct (and a lot of other abilities) AWAY.
No +10 Str, no construct type, ....it will raise your Int to a whopping 3 :cheer:
Er....no even the -2 LA is not worth that....:pbbbtt:

Sorry Runestar....just realized where you where going with that (I think).....
You where saying I could have a +10 Str (from the Maug) human.
I actually WANT this to be a construct (as I said....kind of a Commander Data/Vision)
He is actually not ment to be a "brawler"...but I want him to be strong and tough as a "by-product" of being a "sophisticated" form of Golem. He will actually be going into Warlock as a class (using the excess arcane energy that fuels his bodily functions).
nighttree
05-25-07, 09:41 PM i "might" need to switch to the "feats forum" for this next part....but since I have been going here with great luck (thanks for the guidance by the way) I thought I would try here first.

Can anyone think of feats that his "Creator" could have had that would improve him even further ???
Possibly something from the Artificer class ???
Phalo
06-02-07, 03:57 AM i think there is a clockwork duelist in MM2 maybe, I really can't remember off hand. It may have been 2nd ed
nighttree
06-02-07, 09:48 AM I also found a "Biodroid" right here on the WOTC sight (for D20 modern) that is a level adj 0, construct race......
Although the variant Maug is turning out perfect for my needs, it's still cool info.
Threefists
06-02-07, 10:09 AM While possibly not what you're looking for, the Golmoid from "Dragon #317" is a Humanoid evolved from a 'race' of arcane golemns created by Gnomes that was blessed by Garl Glittergold once the Golemns became sentient and the Gnomes refused to enslave a sentient race.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nighttree 05-24-07, 10:53 AM	I have been trying (for some time) to come up with a construct (not a Living construct) as a player character. Think fantasy version of Data from ST, or the Vision from the Avengers comics. What I am looking at is ....... Human Prodigy 3 + Effigy template (creator was an 18th level Effigy master with the rudimentory Intelligence feat). Then hit it with "Awaken Construct" spell. Questions I'm trying to answer are Between the feat and the spell...is it reasonable for it to regain the skill points it lost from the Effigy template ??? The effigy template has no listed LA (as in was not intended for PC use) but since it's the only thing I can find....any guess as to what LA it would be???
Light_Colonel 05-24-07, 11:49 AM	What do the Stat bonuses work out to be? What immunities does it have? If it has uneven bonuses to stats, it should be at LEAST +1 for that. If the bonuses are really lopsided, then +2 or even +3. The Immunities are tricky. I would say that with the Construct Immunities (factoring in the "bonus" immunitiy of having no CON score), minus the Immunity to mind-affecting, it would be at least +2. Then of course it has no CON Score, but gains bonus HP based on its size. Since you are medium, this will end up being more of a penalty to you than a bonus, so I would give a -1 to what we have so far. Since your Construct is created... I would say that if you just get a pre-set statblock, then you get a -1 to the LA. If you roll for stats though, than no reduction for that. So if my math is working ok, I would say somewhere around +3 LA, or +2 if you have a standard monster statblock of 10s and 11s plus adjustments.
Khatoblepas 05-24-07, 12:21 PM	Take the abilities from the Human Paragon, add it to the race. Effigies lose any and all class levels, as they don't have an intelligence score. 3RHD +1LA should do the trick, really. Construct HD is AWFUL, and as they don't have a Constitution score, d10s don't matter. 3RHD (Construct, Cleric BAB, poor saves) +1 LA, in exchange for two bonus feats, bonus skill points, and the immunities sound fair. I'd even go so far as to give them something like the Maug's special skills (6+Int rather than 2+Int for their HD, maybe?). They don't gain as many class abilities, but are tough and smart. But they're still just machines, and as such aren't incredibly heroic in their saving throws. +2 Str, +2 Int, -2 Cha, maybe?
nighttree 05-24-07, 12:23 PM	The Paragon was created with a 32pt buy...5 pts to all stat's except Dex and Int (6pts to those) which puts him at Str 13 Dex 14 + 2 ability boost (from human paragon class) = Dex 16 Con 13 Int 14 Wis 13 Cha 13. The Effigy template changes those to... Str 17 (+4 str) Dex 14 (-2 Dex) Con NA Int 0 (set) Wis 11 (set) Cha 1 (set) "Awaken Construct" spell brings Int, Wis, and Cha up to 3D6 (so a max of 18 for each ability)....but I was planning on just "defaulting" back to what was purchased from point buy. As far as immunities go....he would gain all immunities listed in the "construct" type.
Khatoblepas 05-24-07, 12:45 PM	He'd lose all the paragon levels. Creatures with no intelligence score cannot have class levels. Even gaining the intelligence back does not restore the levels. And if he took class levels after awaken construct, he couldn't take the paragon levels because he isn't a human, he's a robot shaped like a human.
Light_Colonel 05-24-07, 01:04 PM	I didn't catch the part where this was a human Paragon. Khatoblepas is right, all those abilities are lost. You would be better off just saying it is a Human Effigy with no levels or HD, so you just have "the race", then it can take levels, perhaps in a designed "Construct Paragon" class?
NerdNumber1 05-24-07, 01:31 PM	Before this gets too complex, have you checked out the warforged? I'm not saying that it is fit for your purposes, but it will save you a lot of time if it is. And being made out of adamantium is fun.
nighttree 05-24-07, 10:18 PM	He'd lose all the paragon levels. Creatures with no intelligence score cannot have class levels. Even gaining the intelligence back does not restore the levels. And if he took class levels after awaken construct, he couldn't take the paragon levels because he isn't a human, he's a robot shaped like a human. It's creator has the rudimentory Intelligance feat, which allows you to create constructs with Int equal to half your level...so he has an intelligence right from the start....and can retain his Paragon class levels.....:D
nighttree 05-24-07, 10:20 PM	Before this gets too complex, have you checked out the warforged? I'm not saying that it is fit for your purposes, but it will save you a lot of time if it is. And being made out of adamantium is fun. Ya....I looked....but the Warforged don't really fit what I'm trying for...I was trying to stay away from the "living construct" idea.
NerdNumber1 05-25-07, 08:40 AM	Ya....I looked....but the Warforged don't really fit what I'm trying for...I was trying to stay away from the "living construct" idea. Oh well, it was worth a look, but once you start going adamantium, start looking into libris mortis (some of the feats that give you undead traits, which are oddly similar to construct traits) and possibly going into that one warforged prestige class, you start looking more and more a construct. Anyway, I have thought about an inteligent golem much. It is better left for non-ruled online play-by-posts or as constructed cohort-like characters, but here it is: Take one golem (I choose an iron golem because they are awsome) Give it an inteligent item (I suggest you make it, so you can make sure that its personality is ok for your party) Order the golem to submit to the item's dominance (i.e. voluntarily fail all domination attemps) There you have it, an inteligent golem. I would do farther and inbed the item into the golem's body, so it won't have to worry about disarming. They load it up with magical items (my first form of inteligent golems in Gareth's Arena had two items integrated into its hands: a rust gauntlet(protects the wearer from rust) and a special hombrew gauntlet that allows fireballs on comand (it was actually extremely heavy, but it really doesn't matter for a golem). You could also use this idea for a lesser construct, but I wouldn't use this for a pc class. This would more be used to get your mage one hell of a bodyguard(sp). I don't have access to the template you speak of so I can't help you there.
nighttree 05-25-07, 10:15 AM	Just found the "Maug" from FF.....as well as some "level adjusted" versions.....If I house ruled that he stopped at 4th level (before becoming large....I don't want large..) I end up with an ECL 4 character that makes a pretty close approximation of what I want......:D
runestar 05-25-07, 10:19 AM	You can try slapping on the incarnate template onto the MAUG. The result? +10str for only ECL3...:D
El_Machinae 05-25-07, 10:29 AM	Maug works really well for what you want, I think. And taking away the Large might be worth losing a point of LA. With a construct, you'd almost want a rolling LA, based on level. The +30 hp a Maug gets at early levels are a really good "shadow" constitution bonus. Later on though, dividing 30 by the HD of the character means their effective Con bonus is lower. (In other words, +30 hp at 5 ECL is pretty damned good. It's almost like have a Con bonus of +6 per level. At 20 ECL, though, it's not so hot.) Since you're making a medium character, this isn't so important.
nighttree 05-25-07, 10:37 AM	By not taking the 5th level...all I loose is 5HP, +2 Str, +1 NA, Large Size, and Pulverize 1/day (not interested in the Pulverize ability anyway). I wonder what would be a "fair" DR trade for the Puverize ability...???
sabrewolf 05-25-07, 07:40 PM	I lack most of my books right now (am on work), so i´m just voicing an idea really... I´d need to compare the construct traits with the warforged, yet i´ll sugest it anyway. The warforged could be what you are seeking, or at least half the way to archieve your goal... From what I remember from the eberron book, it is already balanced (i.e. made a PC race) and have a handfull of feats for body customisation bessides at least one prc made for them. The trick would be on getting rid of the "living construct" part... Maybe the living construct tmplate could be the key, if used backwards (or of it turns you into a full flesh being, use "half" the template)... If needed, toss the awaken construct on top of it if the end result lacks inteligence / sentience... Just my :twocents: worth point of view.. Good luck... and take care..
Sleepwalker13666 05-25-07, 08:23 PM	This probably isn't what your looking for, but perhaps it might help: On page 137 of the Fiend Folio there is a plantouched race called the Mechanatrix, they are only a lv adj of 1.
nighttree 05-25-07, 08:59 PM	This probably isn't what your looking for, but perhaps it might help: On page 137 of the Fiend Folio there is a plantouched race called the Mechanatrix, they are only a lv adj of 1. Thanks for the pointer to the Mechantrix Sleepwalker. They are actually a little to "organic"....but it was worth looking into....:D I actually think the level adjusted Maug is going to work perfectly (of course he will look nothing like a Maug....:P ). But It hit's every point I wanted (well....except DR).
nighttree 05-25-07, 09:17 PM	You can try slapping on the incarnate template onto the MAUG. The result? +10str for only ECL3...:D :confused: I must be looking at a "different" Incarnate construct template. The one from SS takes EVERYTHING that makes you a construct (and a lot of other abilities) AWAY. No +10 Str, no construct type, ....it will raise your Int to a whopping 3 :cheer: Er....no even the -2 LA is not worth that....:pbbbtt: Sorry Runestar....just realized where you where going with that (I think)..... You where saying I could have a +10 Str (from the Maug) human. I actually WANT this to be a construct (as I said....kind of a Commander Data/Vision) He is actually not ment to be a "brawler"...but I want him to be strong and tough as a "by-product" of being a "sophisticated" form of Golem. He will actually be going into Warlock as a class (using the excess arcane energy that fuels his bodily functions).
nighttree 05-25-07, 09:41 PM	i "might" need to switch to the "feats forum" for this next part....but since I have been going here with great luck (thanks for the guidance by the way) I thought I would try here first. Can anyone think of feats that his "Creator" could have had that would improve him even further ??? Possibly something from the Artificer class ???
Phalo 06-02-07, 03:57 AM	i think there is a clockwork duelist in MM2 maybe, I really can't remember off hand. It may have been 2nd ed
nighttree 06-02-07, 09:48 AM	I also found a "Biodroid" right here on the WOTC sight (for D20 modern) that is a level adj 0, construct race...... Although the variant Maug is turning out perfect for my needs, it's still cool info.
Threefists 06-02-07, 10:09 AM	While possibly not what you're looking for, the Golmoid from "Dragon #317" is a Humanoid evolved from a 'race' of arcane golemns created by Gnomes that was blessed by Garl Glittergold once the Golemns became sentient and the Gnomes refused to enslave a sentient race.