cool warrior race [Archive] - Wizards Community

cool warrior race [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AAB
06-05-07, 02:16 PM is there any race that would make an interesting fighting character? i like hobgoblin abilities and flavor, but the +1 LA really hurts.
Babzidu
06-05-07, 02:50 PM Orcs. nuff' said.
AMGriffin
06-05-07, 04:30 PM See if your DM will allow this Hobgoblin variant, take the hobgoblin from the MM, and add the following:
• 40 feet base land speed
• +1 natural armor
• +2 bonus on craft checks related to weapon or armor smithing.
• Proficiency with one exotic weapon.
• Bonus feat: Endurance.
sensestaker
06-05-07, 04:41 PM See if your DM will allow this Hobgoblin variant,

Or see if they'll allow the stock hobgoblin with an LA of +0. They're pretty well balanced as given. They can't match an orc (LA +0) for being a straight beatstick because of the orc's +4 to Str (who needs mental stats, anyways) and they're not nearly as powerful as a gnoll (LA +1)
monkofcuthbert4684
06-05-07, 06:35 PM See if your DM will allow this Hobgoblin variant, take the hobgoblin from the MM, and add the following:
• 40 feet base land speed
• +1 natural armor
• +2 bonus on craft checks related to weapon or armor smithing.
• Proficiency with one exotic weapon.
• Bonus feat: Endurance.

And that will LOWER the level adjustment?
MushroomSpore
06-05-07, 06:41 PM And that will LOWER the level adjustment?

I think the idea was to make it WORTH the level adjustment.
monkofcuthbert4684
06-05-07, 06:53 PM I think the idea was to make it WORTH the level adjustment.

I think my point is that it would RAISE the level adjustment.
AMGriffin
06-05-07, 10:32 PM What? That's very much balanced at LA+1. Catfolk get just as much at LA+1, and the draconic template gives you about as much too. It is hardly unbalancing (let alone worth LA+2), jesus. If you want a LA+0 hobgoblin, just give them a penalty to wisdom.
runestar
06-05-07, 10:42 PM A hobgoblin should be a viable LA+0 race if you simply took away its 1st lv starting feat.:)
Jeriaus
06-05-07, 10:45 PM Convince him Hobgolblins dont really deserve the LA+1, because they dont. Other wise your rolling with Orc, though Dragonborn has spiffy abilites.
TamianTheRanger
06-06-07, 07:31 AM look on page 216 of monster manual II it may not be the most practical but a tauric is awesome, as a PC im not sure but cool addition to any game. :elf: :monk: :mage: :fight!:
FreAkOuTRG
06-06-07, 08:39 AM Dwarves.
monkofcuthbert4684
06-06-07, 03:10 PM What? That's very much balanced at LA+1. Catfolk get just as much at LA+1, and the draconic template gives you about as much too. It is hardly unbalancing (let alone worth LA+2), jesus. If you want a LA+0 hobgoblin, just give them a penalty to wisdom.

That's LA+1? Compare it to some other +1 races, like the duergar, and then compare it to the githyanki. It's definitely not +1.

Oh, and a question for AAB: does the LA +1 hurt because you want to have a non-adjusted race, or are you making a 1st level character?
MushroomSpore
06-06-07, 03:21 PM That's LA+1? Compare it to some other +1 races, like the duergar, and then compare it to the githyanki. It's definitely not +1.

It's certainly not +2 either, I mean, the half-ogre (it's +2 now, right?) would laugh it out of the room. And comparing that hobgoblin variant to the +2 githyanki and githzerai is pretty funny, I mean they get a *bunch* of psionic powers and other stuff too. Githzerai get +6 Dex, -2 Int, +2 Wis at that.

The variant's fine at +1.
AAB
06-06-07, 03:35 PM That's LA+1? Compare it to some other +1 races, like the duergar, and then compare it to the githyanki. It's definitely not +1.

Oh, and a question for AAB: does the LA +1 hurt because you want to have a non-adjusted race, or are you making a 1st level character?

i like having a non-adjusted race. i'm sure i could build it into a staggered progression (like the sample 20-level dummy chart in the back of Drow of the Underdark) pretty easily.
RobbyPants
06-06-07, 03:42 PM Or see if they'll allow the stock hobgoblin with an LA of +0. They're pretty well balanced as given. They can't match an orc (LA +0) for being a straight beatstick because of the orc's +4 to Str (who needs mental stats, anyways) and they're not nearly as powerful as a gnoll (LA +1)
Agreed.

I love orcs (if you just want a straight warrior type). If you want to squeeze in some more power, play a water orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#waterOrcs).
AAB
06-06-07, 03:54 PM Agreed.

I love orcs (if you just want a straight warrior type). If you want to squeeze in some more power, play a water orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#waterOrcs).

what is that from? the ability scores are just getting ridiculous by that point.
MushroomSpore
06-06-07, 04:09 PM what is that from? the ability scores are just getting ridiculous by that point.

I don't think so. +6 total in bonuses, -6 total in penalties. But then, in my games, we make mental stats COUNT. Your mileage may vary. :D
monkofcuthbert4684
06-06-07, 04:47 PM It's certainly not +2 either, I mean, the half-ogre (it's +2 now, right?) would laugh it out of the room. And comparing that hobgoblin variant to the +2 githyanki and githzerai is pretty funny, I mean they get a *bunch* of psionic powers and other stuff too. Githzerai get +6 Dex, -2 Int, +2 Wis at that.

The variant's fine at +1.

Yeah, but doesn't the half-ogre have racial HD?

what is that from? the ability scores are just getting ridiculous by that point.

It's from d20srd.org. Sorry I don't know how to link.
MushroomSpore
06-06-07, 04:52 PM Yeah, but doesn't the half-ogre have racial HD?

Not unless they changed it again.

It's from d20srd.org. Sorry I don't know how to link.

Uh, you don't need to link it, the guy already linked it for us. :confused:
monkofcuthbert4684
06-06-07, 04:56 PM Uh, you don't need to link it, the guy already linked it for us. :confused:

I know, but the rest of the site is worth checking into for other races.
Lionhearted
06-06-07, 05:27 PM Anthromorphic Animals carry alot of firepower, basically they are intelligent bipedal (hindleg walking) animals with usable hands (Found in Savage Species)
with monstrous humanoid hitdice (no BAB loss) they range from LA +0-3
For example
Anthromorphic Elephant (African):
+12 str, +2 dex (yes i know its weird) +6 con, +4 wis +7 Natural armor Large monstrous humanoid
Yours for only 3 HD and 2 LA
Imagine that guy in a fullplate
Anthromorphic black bear:
+8 str, +2 dex, +4 con, +4 wis +3 Natural armor Medium Monstrous humanoid Yours for 2 HD and 2 LA (although imo it should only be 1 LA)
you can even claim that you are the inspiration of bear warriors
Anthromorphic light warhorse -2 Str, +4 dex, +2 con +4 wis +4 natural armor Base speed 50ft medium monstrous humanoid
2 HD and 1 LA
Really cool flavour with a noble equine knight the speed is not to be meddled with either
Anthromorphic Badger +2 Str, +4 dex, +6 con, +4 wis. Rage (ex)+4 natural armor Medium monstrous humanoid
2 HD and 3! LA you might consider whether or not its worth it, but the redwall flare, together with the ability to rage AT WILL is rather handy. if you dont think its worth it Wolverines give pretty much the same bonuses (except +2 more str and con) at LA +2

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/5/51/200px-Outcast_of_Redwall_UK.jpg
AAB
06-06-07, 05:29 PM i was actually asking what book those water orcs came from. or are they not in one?
Sul_Zain_Aserbet
06-06-07, 05:33 PM Dwarves (including duegar), orcs, half-giants, goliaths, humans, hobgoblins, and dragonborn all make nifty fighter types for +1 LA or lower.

Ogres, half ogres, thrikeen, and wemics make nice fighter choices if LA isnt an issue with you.
Sul_Zain_Aserbet
06-06-07, 05:33 PM i was actually asking what book those water orcs came from. or are they not in one?

Unearthed Arcana, if i remember right
Lionhearted
06-06-07, 05:34 PM i was actually asking what book those water orcs came from. or are they not in one?

Unearthed arcana, which most of the rules can be found on http://www.d20srd.com
Sul_Zain_Aserbet
06-06-07, 05:36 PM Anthromorphic Animals carry alot of firepower, basically they are intelligent bipedal (hindleg walking) animals with usable hands (Found in Savage Species)
with monstrous humanoid hitdice (no BAB loss) they range from LA +0-3
For example

Yours for only 3 HD and 2 LA
Imagine that guy in a fullplate
Yours for 2 HD and 2 LA (although imo it should only be 1 LA)
you can even claim that you are the inspiration of bear warriors

2 HD and 1 LA
Really cool flavour with a noble equine knight the speed is not to be meddled with either

2 HD and 3! LA you might consider whether or not its worth it, but the redwall flare, together with the ability to rage AT WILL is rather handy. if you dont think its worth it Wolverines give pretty much the same bonuses (except +2 more str and con) at LA +2

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/5/51/200px-Outcast_of_Redwall_UK.jpg

Man, i love those books. Ive read about 4 of em. Dont forget anthropomorphic Baleen Whale! Large, 3HD, and wopping str bonus with +0 LA!
DwarfPcfan
06-06-07, 05:36 PM Dwarves are an excellent race period, as well they have a long history as great warriors and their culture is at it's heart both a warrior culture and a philsosophical culture of honor and family.

Additionnaly, they are statistically the best warrior race for no LA...

Seriously go with dwarf...
Lionhearted
06-06-07, 05:38 PM And are the most clichéd warriors aswell.
if you make a dwarf, put some effort into making it unique
Dwarven meatshield (no)
Dwarven berserker (no)
Dwarven discipline (no)
Dwarven duskblade (now there's a new one)
AAB
06-06-07, 05:50 PM yeah, i pretty much make too many dwarves anyways. last character i had was a dwarf shaper. he loved making little ectoplasmic guys to pound the hell out of stuff.
Elzaban the Ethereal
06-06-07, 06:29 PM That's LA+1? Compare it to some other +1 races, like the duergar, and then compare it to the githyanki. It's definitely not +1.

Oh, and a question for AAB: does the LA +1 hurt because you want to have a non-adjusted race, or are you making a 1st level character?

The guy's Hobgoblin modification is fine for LA +1. Perhaps you neglected the fact that Duergar also have the standard Dwarf racial abilities? Compare the two, as you said.

Duergar:
+2 Constitution, -4 Charisma
20' base speed, no armour reduction to speed
Darkvision 120' plus light sensitivity
Stonecunning
Stability
+2 racial bonus versus spells and spell-like abilities
+2 to Appraise and Craft with stone and metal
+1 to hit versus orcs and goblinoids
+4 dodge bonus to AC versus giants
Immunity to paralysis, phantasms and poison
+4 to Move Silently
+1 to Listen and Spot
Enlarge and Invisibility, each once per day, at a caster level equal to double their class level.

New Hobgoblin:
+2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution
40' base speed
Darkvision 60'
+4 to Move Silently
+1 natural armor
+2 bonus on craft checks related to weapon or armor smithing.
Endurance and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (any one)

Dear old Hobbo is still getting the short straw, even when pumped up. There's no point even bothering to compare with Githyanki, who gain blur, dimension door and planeshift as spell-like abilities, and have scaling spell resistance.
monkofcuthbert4684
06-07-07, 02:44 PM The guy's Hobgoblin modification is fine for LA +1. Perhaps you neglected the fact that Duergar also have the standard Dwarf racial abilities? Compare the two, as you said.

Duergar:
+2 Constitution, -4 Charisma
20' base speed, no armour reduction to speed
Darkvision 120' plus light sensitivity
Stonecunning
Stability
+2 racial bonus versus spells and spell-like abilities
+2 to Appraise and Craft with stone and metal
+1 to hit versus orcs and goblinoids
+4 dodge bonus to AC versus giants
Immunity to paralysis, phantasms and poison
+4 to Move Silently
+1 to Listen and Spot
Enlarge and Invisibility, each once per day, at a caster level equal to double their class level.

New Hobgoblin:
+2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution
40' base speed
Darkvision 60'
+4 to Move Silently
+1 natural armor
+2 bonus on craft checks related to weapon or armor smithing.
Endurance and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (any one)

Dear old Hobbo is still getting the short straw, even when pumped up. There's no point even bothering to compare with Githyanki, who gain blur, dimension door and planeshift as spell-like abilities, and have scaling spell resistance.

Okay, I guess I see your point, but the I think the base land speed increase is worth more than you're saying.

Dwarves (including duegar), orcs, half-giants, goliaths, humans, hobgoblins, and dragonborn all make nifty fighter types for +1 LA or lower.

Ogres, half ogres, thrikeen, and wemics make nice fighter choices if LA isnt an issue with you.

Geez, goliaths are +1 LA? I really have to brush up on PC monsters. Any chance someone has a link to goliaths? They really kick a**.
MushroomSpore
06-07-07, 05:50 PM Okay, I guess I see your point, but the I think the base land speed increase is worth more than you're saying.

It's the weakest class feature of a level one barbarian. It's not THAT good. :P
Shedeo
06-07-07, 08:03 PM One of the best things I've seen done was I had a player that wanted to play a big, beefy dragon-like character as a beatstick.

So I made him a Dragonborn Orc and he wholloped on just about everything. Sides, doing that, you still get the Orc's benefits without all of the crappy stuff (like light sensetivity.)
monkofcuthbert4684
08-11-07, 08:44 PM It's the weakest class feature of a level one barbarian. It's not THAT good. :P

No, illiteracy is.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AAB 06-05-07, 02:16 PM	is there any race that would make an interesting fighting character? i like hobgoblin abilities and flavor, but the +1 LA really hurts.
Babzidu 06-05-07, 02:50 PM	Orcs. nuff' said.
AMGriffin 06-05-07, 04:30 PM	See if your DM will allow this Hobgoblin variant, take the hobgoblin from the MM, and add the following: • 40 feet base land speed • +1 natural armor • +2 bonus on craft checks related to weapon or armor smithing. • Proficiency with one exotic weapon. • Bonus feat: Endurance.
sensestaker 06-05-07, 04:41 PM	See if your DM will allow this Hobgoblin variant, Or see if they'll allow the stock hobgoblin with an LA of +0. They're pretty well balanced as given. They can't match an orc (LA +0) for being a straight beatstick because of the orc's +4 to Str (who needs mental stats, anyways) and they're not nearly as powerful as a gnoll (LA +1)
monkofcuthbert4684 06-05-07, 06:35 PM	See if your DM will allow this Hobgoblin variant, take the hobgoblin from the MM, and add the following: • 40 feet base land speed • +1 natural armor • +2 bonus on craft checks related to weapon or armor smithing. • Proficiency with one exotic weapon. • Bonus feat: Endurance. And that will LOWER the level adjustment?
MushroomSpore 06-05-07, 06:41 PM	And that will LOWER the level adjustment? I think the idea was to make it WORTH the level adjustment.
monkofcuthbert4684 06-05-07, 06:53 PM	I think the idea was to make it WORTH the level adjustment. I think my point is that it would RAISE the level adjustment.
AMGriffin 06-05-07, 10:32 PM	What? That's very much balanced at LA+1. Catfolk get just as much at LA+1, and the draconic template gives you about as much too. It is hardly unbalancing (let alone worth LA+2), jesus. If you want a LA+0 hobgoblin, just give them a penalty to wisdom.
runestar 06-05-07, 10:42 PM	A hobgoblin should be a viable LA+0 race if you simply took away its 1st lv starting feat.:)
Jeriaus 06-05-07, 10:45 PM	Convince him Hobgolblins dont really deserve the LA+1, because they dont. Other wise your rolling with Orc, though Dragonborn has spiffy abilites.
TamianTheRanger 06-06-07, 07:31 AM	look on page 216 of monster manual II it may not be the most practical but a tauric is awesome, as a PC im not sure but cool addition to any game. :elf: :monk: :mage: :fight!:
FreAkOuTRG 06-06-07, 08:39 AM	Dwarves.
monkofcuthbert4684 06-06-07, 03:10 PM	What? That's very much balanced at LA+1. Catfolk get just as much at LA+1, and the draconic template gives you about as much too. It is hardly unbalancing (let alone worth LA+2), jesus. If you want a LA+0 hobgoblin, just give them a penalty to wisdom. That's LA+1? Compare it to some other +1 races, like the duergar, and then compare it to the githyanki. It's definitely not +1. Oh, and a question for AAB: does the LA +1 hurt because you want to have a non-adjusted race, or are you making a 1st level character?
MushroomSpore 06-06-07, 03:21 PM	That's LA+1? Compare it to some other +1 races, like the duergar, and then compare it to the githyanki. It's definitely not +1. It's certainly not +2 either, I mean, the half-ogre (it's +2 now, right?) would laugh it out of the room. And comparing that hobgoblin variant to the +2 githyanki and githzerai is pretty funny, I mean they get a bunch of psionic powers and other stuff too. Githzerai get +6 Dex, -2 Int, +2 Wis at that. The variant's fine at +1.
AAB 06-06-07, 03:35 PM	That's LA+1? Compare it to some other +1 races, like the duergar, and then compare it to the githyanki. It's definitely not +1. Oh, and a question for AAB: does the LA +1 hurt because you want to have a non-adjusted race, or are you making a 1st level character? i like having a non-adjusted race. i'm sure i could build it into a staggered progression (like the sample 20-level dummy chart in the back of Drow of the Underdark) pretty easily.
RobbyPants 06-06-07, 03:42 PM	Or see if they'll allow the stock hobgoblin with an LA of +0. They're pretty well balanced as given. They can't match an orc (LA +0) for being a straight beatstick because of the orc's +4 to Str (who needs mental stats, anyways) and they're not nearly as powerful as a gnoll (LA +1) Agreed. I love orcs (if you just want a straight warrior type). If you want to squeeze in some more power, play a water orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#waterOrcs).
AAB 06-06-07, 03:54 PM	Agreed. I love orcs (if you just want a straight warrior type). If you want to squeeze in some more power, play a water orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#waterOrcs). what is that from? the ability scores are just getting ridiculous by that point.
MushroomSpore 06-06-07, 04:09 PM	what is that from? the ability scores are just getting ridiculous by that point. I don't think so. +6 total in bonuses, -6 total in penalties. But then, in my games, we make mental stats COUNT. Your mileage may vary. :D
monkofcuthbert4684 06-06-07, 04:47 PM	It's certainly not +2 either, I mean, the half-ogre (it's +2 now, right?) would laugh it out of the room. And comparing that hobgoblin variant to the +2 githyanki and githzerai is pretty funny, I mean they get a bunch of psionic powers and other stuff too. Githzerai get +6 Dex, -2 Int, +2 Wis at that. The variant's fine at +1. Yeah, but doesn't the half-ogre have racial HD? what is that from? the ability scores are just getting ridiculous by that point. It's from d20srd.org. Sorry I don't know how to link.
MushroomSpore 06-06-07, 04:52 PM	Yeah, but doesn't the half-ogre have racial HD? Not unless they changed it again. It's from d20srd.org. Sorry I don't know how to link. Uh, you don't need to link it, the guy already linked it for us. :confused:
monkofcuthbert4684 06-06-07, 04:56 PM	Uh, you don't need to link it, the guy already linked it for us. :confused: I know, but the rest of the site is worth checking into for other races.
Lionhearted 06-06-07, 05:27 PM	Anthromorphic Animals carry alot of firepower, basically they are intelligent bipedal (hindleg walking) animals with usable hands (Found in Savage Species) with monstrous humanoid hitdice (no BAB loss) they range from LA +0-3 For example Anthromorphic Elephant (African): +12 str, +2 dex (yes i know its weird) +6 con, +4 wis +7 Natural armor Large monstrous humanoid Yours for only 3 HD and 2 LA Imagine that guy in a fullplate Anthromorphic black bear: +8 str, +2 dex, +4 con, +4 wis +3 Natural armor Medium Monstrous humanoid Yours for 2 HD and 2 LA (although imo it should only be 1 LA) you can even claim that you are the inspiration of bear warriors Anthromorphic light warhorse -2 Str, +4 dex, +2 con +4 wis +4 natural armor Base speed 50ft medium monstrous humanoid 2 HD and 1 LA Really cool flavour with a noble equine knight the speed is not to be meddled with either Anthromorphic Badger +2 Str, +4 dex, +6 con, +4 wis. Rage (ex)+4 natural armor Medium monstrous humanoid 2 HD and 3! LA you might consider whether or not its worth it, but the redwall flare, together with the ability to rage AT WILL is rather handy. if you dont think its worth it Wolverines give pretty much the same bonuses (except +2 more str and con) at LA +2 http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/5/51/200px-Outcast_of_Redwall_UK.jpg
AAB 06-06-07, 05:29 PM	i was actually asking what book those water orcs came from. or are they not in one?
Sul_Zain_Aserbet 06-06-07, 05:33 PM	Dwarves (including duegar), orcs, half-giants, goliaths, humans, hobgoblins, and dragonborn all make nifty fighter types for +1 LA or lower. Ogres, half ogres, thrikeen, and wemics make nice fighter choices if LA isnt an issue with you.
Sul_Zain_Aserbet 06-06-07, 05:33 PM	i was actually asking what book those water orcs came from. or are they not in one? Unearthed Arcana, if i remember right
Lionhearted 06-06-07, 05:34 PM	i was actually asking what book those water orcs came from. or are they not in one? Unearthed arcana, which most of the rules can be found on http://www.d20srd.com
Sul_Zain_Aserbet 06-06-07, 05:36 PM	Anthromorphic Animals carry alot of firepower, basically they are intelligent bipedal (hindleg walking) animals with usable hands (Found in Savage Species) with monstrous humanoid hitdice (no BAB loss) they range from LA +0-3 For example Yours for only 3 HD and 2 LA Imagine that guy in a fullplate Yours for 2 HD and 2 LA (although imo it should only be 1 LA) you can even claim that you are the inspiration of bear warriors 2 HD and 1 LA Really cool flavour with a noble equine knight the speed is not to be meddled with either 2 HD and 3! LA you might consider whether or not its worth it, but the redwall flare, together with the ability to rage AT WILL is rather handy. if you dont think its worth it Wolverines give pretty much the same bonuses (except +2 more str and con) at LA +2 http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/5/51/200px-Outcast_of_Redwall_UK.jpg Man, i love those books. Ive read about 4 of em. Dont forget anthropomorphic Baleen Whale! Large, 3HD, and wopping str bonus with +0 LA!
DwarfPcfan 06-06-07, 05:36 PM	Dwarves are an excellent race period, as well they have a long history as great warriors and their culture is at it's heart both a warrior culture and a philsosophical culture of honor and family. Additionnaly, they are statistically the best warrior race for no LA... Seriously go with dwarf...
Lionhearted 06-06-07, 05:38 PM	And are the most clichéd warriors aswell. if you make a dwarf, put some effort into making it unique Dwarven meatshield (no) Dwarven berserker (no) Dwarven discipline (no) Dwarven duskblade (now there's a new one)
AAB 06-06-07, 05:50 PM	yeah, i pretty much make too many dwarves anyways. last character i had was a dwarf shaper. he loved making little ectoplasmic guys to pound the hell out of stuff.
Elzaban the Ethereal 06-06-07, 06:29 PM	That's LA+1? Compare it to some other +1 races, like the duergar, and then compare it to the githyanki. It's definitely not +1. Oh, and a question for AAB: does the LA +1 hurt because you want to have a non-adjusted race, or are you making a 1st level character? The guy's Hobgoblin modification is fine for LA +1. Perhaps you neglected the fact that Duergar also have the standard Dwarf racial abilities? Compare the two, as you said. Duergar: +2 Constitution, -4 Charisma 20' base speed, no armour reduction to speed Darkvision 120' plus light sensitivity Stonecunning Stability +2 racial bonus versus spells and spell-like abilities +2 to Appraise and Craft with stone and metal +1 to hit versus orcs and goblinoids +4 dodge bonus to AC versus giants Immunity to paralysis, phantasms and poison +4 to Move Silently +1 to Listen and Spot Enlarge and Invisibility, each once per day, at a caster level equal to double their class level. New Hobgoblin: +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution 40' base speed Darkvision 60' +4 to Move Silently +1 natural armor +2 bonus on craft checks related to weapon or armor smithing. Endurance and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (any one) Dear old Hobbo is still getting the short straw, even when pumped up. There's no point even bothering to compare with Githyanki, who gain blur, dimension door and planeshift as spell-like abilities, and have scaling spell resistance.
monkofcuthbert4684 06-07-07, 02:44 PM	The guy's Hobgoblin modification is fine for LA +1. Perhaps you neglected the fact that Duergar also have the standard Dwarf racial abilities? Compare the two, as you said. Duergar: +2 Constitution, -4 Charisma 20' base speed, no armour reduction to speed Darkvision 120' plus light sensitivity Stonecunning Stability +2 racial bonus versus spells and spell-like abilities +2 to Appraise and Craft with stone and metal +1 to hit versus orcs and goblinoids +4 dodge bonus to AC versus giants Immunity to paralysis, phantasms and poison +4 to Move Silently +1 to Listen and Spot Enlarge and Invisibility, each once per day, at a caster level equal to double their class level. New Hobgoblin: +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution 40' base speed Darkvision 60' +4 to Move Silently +1 natural armor +2 bonus on craft checks related to weapon or armor smithing. Endurance and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (any one) Dear old Hobbo is still getting the short straw, even when pumped up. There's no point even bothering to compare with Githyanki, who gain blur, dimension door and planeshift as spell-like abilities, and have scaling spell resistance. Okay, I guess I see your point, but the I think the base land speed increase is worth more than you're saying. Dwarves (including duegar), orcs, half-giants, goliaths, humans, hobgoblins, and dragonborn all make nifty fighter types for +1 LA or lower. Ogres, half ogres, thrikeen, and wemics make nice fighter choices if LA isnt an issue with you. Geez, goliaths are +1 LA? I really have to brush up on PC monsters. Any chance someone has a link to goliaths? They really kick a**.
MushroomSpore 06-07-07, 05:50 PM	Okay, I guess I see your point, but the I think the base land speed increase is worth more than you're saying. It's the weakest class feature of a level one barbarian. It's not THAT good. :P
Shedeo 06-07-07, 08:03 PM	One of the best things I've seen done was I had a player that wanted to play a big, beefy dragon-like character as a beatstick. So I made him a Dragonborn Orc and he wholloped on just about everything. Sides, doing that, you still get the Orc's benefits without all of the crappy stuff (like light sensetivity.)
monkofcuthbert4684 08-11-07, 08:44 PM	It's the weakest class feature of a level one barbarian. It's not THAT good. :P No, illiteracy is.