Creature with Permanent Message Ability... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Creature with Permanent Message Ability... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Master_Vega
12-01-07, 05:56 PM In an upcoming campaign I plan to run (a side-game for my first group when our main GM isn't able to play), I would like to have a low-LA wolf-race. One ability I'm considering for the race is a permanent Massage-like ability with their species, with a caster level based on either their HD, or 1/2 their HD (a higher-level member of the race can speak to lower leveled ones from a long distance, though they will not be able to reply).

Essentially, I want them to have limited telepathy... limited in such a way that it is only easy to use this telepathy with members of their race. If a member of another race wishes to become part of this network, they will need to perform some sort of ritual to do so.

I think members of this race would not start out with a spoken language, as they have no need for one unless they wish to communicate with outsiders (they may spend two skillpoints to gain a spoken language and written language). They can write in a language of their species' creation, though, as telepathy is only a form of communication and not documentation.

Here are the other bonuses and penalties I had in mind for them:
Size: Med
Con +2
Cha: -2
Low-light Vision
Natural Weapon: Bite (1d6), use of this weapon is frowned upon by their society though, as it is seen as savage to bite like an animal.

I really don't want to just give them +X when working with others of their species. It gives a much more primitive flavor than I'm going for (granted I did take away automatic spoken language, but that's logical with the limited telepathy). I like the concept of a wolf-race whose coordination is not just near-telepathic; it IS telepathic.

What do you guys think? What is this limited telepathy worth as far as level adjustment? I understand that wolf-species have been done to death (or at least I'd think so), so please don't complain about the unoriginality of the idea.

Thanks!
AtsuiShoto
12-01-07, 06:13 PM What's been done to death is the whole "we don't DEIGN to stoop so LOW as to use this unbelievably useful thing that we all have, because it's QUITE similar to something that OTHER creatures have, and we don't want to be thought of in the same light as THEM"

Let them use their bite attack, or don't give them one; that should be pretty easy.

Maybe I should add, though, that I love the idea of telepathic, sentient wolf-people. They could easily be very feral, very wolf-like, very pack-based hunters who are seen as no better than wolves to outsiders. Even so, they could still be philosophers, artists, statesmen, or the like in their own, silent society
Master_Vega
12-01-07, 06:21 PM What's been done to death is the whole "we don't DEIGN to stoop so LOW as to use this unbelievably useful thing that we all have, because it's QUITE similar to something that OTHER creatures have, and we don't want to be thought of in the same light as THEM"

Let them use their bite attack, or don't give them one; that should be pretty easy.

Hmm... I could've sworn I made a comment specifically about this sort of negative criticism... In fact, you must have read it in order to have made this comment.

I asked a mechanical question, not a flavor question, so if you have something useful to add I'd like to hear that. :)

Besides, I've never seen any of my fellow players resort to natural weapons (save for fists) because they suck compared to manufactured ones. Bite with one attack, or sword with many... hmmm.. toughy. I gave them the bite attack because it makes sense for them to have the ability (long snout, sharp teeth, hmm... naw, that definately can't do damage). I might take the natural attack away for the reason that I might not GIVE them an elongated snout and instead make their characteristics more human, if that helps.
Biting isn't entirely taboo for the race, either, just seen as weak: "If you were stronger with your sword/spear, he wouldn't have gotten close enough for you to bite him."

/rant (My apologies. I do agree that it's overdone, but biting throws off the intelligent humanoid vibe they have going, maybe I should just take it away)

Alright, as for your edit, I'm glad you like the telepathy. They can speak, provided they go to great trouble to learn an outside language.

But how strong of an ability is the limited telepathy?
zeratulcraft
12-01-07, 07:09 PM You can bite and swing your sword in the same full attack action. Your wielded weapon becomes primary, and your bite becomes secondary. So instead of full BAB its at like -5 or something.
Grizzled Gryphon
12-02-07, 07:03 PM I happen to know of an already made race. Not sure if it is really what you are looking for, but you can change the fluff around to your liking, of course. Here is a Link.

(He called it "wolf-like" due to copyright problems, but you can call it Wolfen, which is what it is based on) Wolf-Like (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=829586)
Shadowfax7
12-02-07, 08:32 PM IMO the race is +1 LA with the natural bite attack, otherwise +0 LA.

The "limited telepathy" based on Message, is basically a 0th level spell-like ability at will.

. . . and BTW I like the concept, not too ability-heavy with some cool flavor.
Master_Vega
12-03-07, 12:21 PM IMO the race is +1 LA with the natural bite attack, otherwise +0 LA.

The "limited telepathy" based on Message, is basically a 0th level spell-like ability at will.

. . . and BTW I like the concept, not too ability-heavy with some cool flavor.

Thanks for the mechanical analysis. I think I'll take the bite attack away, as I'm beginning to (admittedly influenced by the first poster's comment) like the idea of giving them a more human (though still very wolf-like) appearance to avoid the taboo cliché... That and I'd prefer this race be LA +0.

I'm glad people are liking the real, though limited telepathy idea. As I said, I've been getting tired of "pack bonuses" and wanted to give a reason for the people's tactical prowess.

How's this for an ability description in game terms:

Limited Telepathy (SU [right?]): The (wolf people) are born with the ability to communicate with their peers through thoughts. This ability functions as the spell Message, but with all (wolf people) within range included in the spell. The wolf people also need not whisper in order to share their thoughts. This ability's spell level is equal to the (wolf person)'s HD.
All (wolf people) in a conversation must be within all of their respective ranges to communicate two-way. If a powerful (wolf person) is speaking to one not as powerful, and is outside his comrade's range while his comrade is within his own, he the conversation is only one-way.

I'll think of some kind of name to give this wolf-race, so I don't have to sound like I'm trying to be politically correct every time I mention them. :P

Gryphon -- Thanks for the link; I'd seen that thread before... It's not quite what I wanted, though.
Count Arioch the 28th
12-04-07, 12:47 AM Thanks for the mechanical analysis. I think I'll take the bite attack away, as I'm beginning to (admittedly influenced by the first poster's comment) like the idea of giving them a more human (though still very wolf-like) appearance to avoid the taboo cliché... That and I'd prefer this race be LA +0.

Well, you have to keep in mind that looking like this:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/gnoll_med.jpg

Doesn't mean you have a bite attack.

You would still have your race looking lupine and not have a bite attack.

Alternately, you could have a racial feat that gives said wolf race a bite attack to represent the members of the race that disregard convention.
Finfreeze
12-04-07, 04:23 AM That's more to do with the low-level humanoid monsters coming off as complete afterthoughts than anything else.
Grizzled Gryphon
12-04-07, 07:41 AM Here is a suggestion for a name. Vulpine.
Finfreeze
12-04-07, 03:54 PM Here's an original suggestion: Suwaillan. Plural suwaillans.
Master_Vega
12-04-07, 11:40 PM I'll think about the names, thanks. :P

So what do you guys think of the limited telepathy ability in writing?
sigma999
12-09-07, 11:34 PM Normal telepathy as a quality is 100', which is damned lame IMHO.
That in itself is limited telepathy.
And many outsiders get it like a Happy Meal toy with their immunities and other qualities.

While I'd rather that the 'default' for telepathy is unlimited range and functions more like a Sending spell, such is only possible in the realm of the House Of The Rule.

So, go for it. Outright state "telepathy 100' " but maybe limit it to their own species or type. That's a big limitation.

Oh, and a bite attack is not worth a whole level, but you might want to cut it down to a secondary-only attack for 1d4 or less since this race is a LA+0 (ideally) and has other abilities too.
drakir_nosslin
12-10-07, 04:17 AM Lol, I looked at the title of the thread, and I though that it said: Creature with Permanent Massage Ability...
Now that would be a race I would play any day!
Solaria
03-29-08, 04:24 PM Here is a suggestion for a name. Vulpine.

How about the Lupa? He's a Lupa, she's a Lupa, they're Lupans.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Master_Vega 12-01-07, 05:56 PM	In an upcoming campaign I plan to run (a side-game for my first group when our main GM isn't able to play), I would like to have a low-LA wolf-race. One ability I'm considering for the race is a permanent Massage-like ability with their species, with a caster level based on either their HD, or 1/2 their HD (a higher-level member of the race can speak to lower leveled ones from a long distance, though they will not be able to reply). Essentially, I want them to have limited telepathy... limited in such a way that it is only easy to use this telepathy with members of their race. If a member of another race wishes to become part of this network, they will need to perform some sort of ritual to do so. I think members of this race would not start out with a spoken language, as they have no need for one unless they wish to communicate with outsiders (they may spend two skillpoints to gain a spoken language and written language). They can write in a language of their species' creation, though, as telepathy is only a form of communication and not documentation. Here are the other bonuses and penalties I had in mind for them: Size: Med Con +2 Cha: -2 Low-light Vision Natural Weapon: Bite (1d6), use of this weapon is frowned upon by their society though, as it is seen as savage to bite like an animal. I really don't want to just give them +X when working with others of their species. It gives a much more primitive flavor than I'm going for (granted I did take away automatic spoken language, but that's logical with the limited telepathy). I like the concept of a wolf-race whose coordination is not just near-telepathic; it IS telepathic. What do you guys think? What is this limited telepathy worth as far as level adjustment? I understand that wolf-species have been done to death (or at least I'd think so), so please don't complain about the unoriginality of the idea. Thanks!
AtsuiShoto 12-01-07, 06:13 PM	What's been done to death is the whole "we don't DEIGN to stoop so LOW as to use this unbelievably useful thing that we all have, because it's QUITE similar to something that OTHER creatures have, and we don't want to be thought of in the same light as THEM" Let them use their bite attack, or don't give them one; that should be pretty easy. Maybe I should add, though, that I love the idea of telepathic, sentient wolf-people. They could easily be very feral, very wolf-like, very pack-based hunters who are seen as no better than wolves to outsiders. Even so, they could still be philosophers, artists, statesmen, or the like in their own, silent society
Master_Vega 12-01-07, 06:21 PM	What's been done to death is the whole "we don't DEIGN to stoop so LOW as to use this unbelievably useful thing that we all have, because it's QUITE similar to something that OTHER creatures have, and we don't want to be thought of in the same light as THEM" Let them use their bite attack, or don't give them one; that should be pretty easy. Hmm... I could've sworn I made a comment specifically about this sort of negative criticism... In fact, you must have read it in order to have made this comment. I asked a mechanical question, not a flavor question, so if you have something useful to add I'd like to hear that. :) Besides, I've never seen any of my fellow players resort to natural weapons (save for fists) because they suck compared to manufactured ones. Bite with one attack, or sword with many... hmmm.. toughy. I gave them the bite attack because it makes sense for them to have the ability (long snout, sharp teeth, hmm... naw, that definately can't do damage). I might take the natural attack away for the reason that I might not GIVE them an elongated snout and instead make their characteristics more human, if that helps. Biting isn't entirely taboo for the race, either, just seen as weak: "If you were stronger with your sword/spear, he wouldn't have gotten close enough for you to bite him." /rant (My apologies. I do agree that it's overdone, but biting throws off the intelligent humanoid vibe they have going, maybe I should just take it away) Alright, as for your edit, I'm glad you like the telepathy. They can speak, provided they go to great trouble to learn an outside language. But how strong of an ability is the limited telepathy?
zeratulcraft 12-01-07, 07:09 PM	You can bite and swing your sword in the same full attack action. Your wielded weapon becomes primary, and your bite becomes secondary. So instead of full BAB its at like -5 or something.
Grizzled Gryphon 12-02-07, 07:03 PM	I happen to know of an already made race. Not sure if it is really what you are looking for, but you can change the fluff around to your liking, of course. Here is a Link. (He called it "wolf-like" due to copyright problems, but you can call it Wolfen, which is what it is based on) Wolf-Like (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=829586)
Shadowfax7 12-02-07, 08:32 PM	IMO the race is +1 LA with the natural bite attack, otherwise +0 LA. The "limited telepathy" based on Message, is basically a 0th level spell-like ability at will. . . . and BTW I like the concept, not too ability-heavy with some cool flavor.
Master_Vega 12-03-07, 12:21 PM	IMO the race is +1 LA with the natural bite attack, otherwise +0 LA. The "limited telepathy" based on Message, is basically a 0th level spell-like ability at will. . . . and BTW I like the concept, not too ability-heavy with some cool flavor. Thanks for the mechanical analysis. I think I'll take the bite attack away, as I'm beginning to (admittedly influenced by the first poster's comment) like the idea of giving them a more human (though still very wolf-like) appearance to avoid the taboo cliché... That and I'd prefer this race be LA +0. I'm glad people are liking the real, though limited telepathy idea. As I said, I've been getting tired of "pack bonuses" and wanted to give a reason for the people's tactical prowess. How's this for an ability description in game terms: Limited Telepathy (SU [right?]): The (wolf people) are born with the ability to communicate with their peers through thoughts. This ability functions as the spell Message, but with all (wolf people) within range included in the spell. The wolf people also need not whisper in order to share their thoughts. This ability's spell level is equal to the (wolf person)'s HD. All (wolf people) in a conversation must be within all of their respective ranges to communicate two-way. If a powerful (wolf person) is speaking to one not as powerful, and is outside his comrade's range while his comrade is within his own, he the conversation is only one-way. I'll think of some kind of name to give this wolf-race, so I don't have to sound like I'm trying to be politically correct every time I mention them. :P Gryphon -- Thanks for the link; I'd seen that thread before... It's not quite what I wanted, though.
Count Arioch the 28th 12-04-07, 12:47 AM	Thanks for the mechanical analysis. I think I'll take the bite attack away, as I'm beginning to (admittedly influenced by the first poster's comment) like the idea of giving them a more human (though still very wolf-like) appearance to avoid the taboo cliché... That and I'd prefer this race be LA +0. Well, you have to keep in mind that looking like this: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/gnoll_med.jpg Doesn't mean you have a bite attack. You would still have your race looking lupine and not have a bite attack. Alternately, you could have a racial feat that gives said wolf race a bite attack to represent the members of the race that disregard convention.
Finfreeze 12-04-07, 04:23 AM	That's more to do with the low-level humanoid monsters coming off as complete afterthoughts than anything else.
Grizzled Gryphon 12-04-07, 07:41 AM	Here is a suggestion for a name. Vulpine.
Finfreeze 12-04-07, 03:54 PM	Here's an original suggestion: Suwaillan. Plural suwaillans.
Master_Vega 12-04-07, 11:40 PM	I'll think about the names, thanks. :P So what do you guys think of the limited telepathy ability in writing?
sigma999 12-09-07, 11:34 PM	Normal telepathy as a quality is 100', which is damned lame IMHO. That in itself is limited telepathy. And many outsiders get it like a Happy Meal toy with their immunities and other qualities. While I'd rather that the 'default' for telepathy is unlimited range and functions more like a Sending spell, such is only possible in the realm of the House Of The Rule. So, go for it. Outright state "telepathy 100' " but maybe limit it to their own species or type. That's a big limitation. Oh, and a bite attack is not worth a whole level, but you might want to cut it down to a secondary-only attack for 1d4 or less since this race is a LA+0 (ideally) and has other abilities too.
drakir_nosslin 12-10-07, 04:17 AM	Lol, I looked at the title of the thread, and I though that it said: Creature with Permanent Massage Ability... Now that would be a race I would play any day!
Solaria 03-29-08, 04:24 PM	Here is a suggestion for a name. Vulpine. How about the Lupa? He's a Lupa, she's a Lupa, they're Lupans.