dark vision [Archive] - Wizards Community

dark vision [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BloodPuppy
03-16-08, 08:09 PM We are having an argument as we are playing now and none of us can find the answer.
Doesnt darkvision come into play after the light of a torch? i have DV of 70' and a party member has a torch going. Can i see past the light with DV.
calronmoonflower
03-16-08, 08:17 PM Yes it is separate from the torch light, so you can see farther than the torch would normally allow.
AtsuiShoto
03-17-08, 06:09 AM Darkvision is a strange, strange sort of vision. You will be able to see anything as clearly as in daylight (except it is monochromatic), out to 70 feet from you, no matter how dark or light it is. Anything 71 feet from you, however, is seen exactly the same way humans see.
Shadowfax7
03-17-08, 07:05 AM You will be able to see anything as clearly as in daylight (except it is monochromatic), out to 70 feet from you, no matter how dark or light it is. 60' for normal Darkvision.

To the OP, note that it does not stack with the illumination of the torch, it supercedes it.
Naderion
03-17-08, 08:35 AM I think darkvision works like an extremely precise sonar.
ArochanoX
03-17-08, 12:16 PM I think darkvision works like an extremely precise sonar.

I think that's Blindsight. Blindsense is a more vague version of Blindsight. Darkvision is a vision. It's like in a very dimly lit room where you can see just shapes and shades of gray, though more precisely.
ciaran
03-17-08, 06:01 PM A regular, run-of-the-mill torch sheds bright light out to 20 ft and shadowy light 20 feet beyond that.

Regular,run-of-the-mill darkvision is 60 ft.

When this darkvision is used conjection with this darkvision, you end up with bright for 20, shadowy for 20 beyond that, and black & white darkvision for 20 beyond that. The creature using darkvision could actually see in the last 20 ft better than he could the middle 20.

Strange, but thats how its written.
Kursk
03-17-08, 07:32 PM I think darkvision works like an extremely precise sonar.

Except it doesn't.
Kursk
03-17-08, 07:33 PM I think that's Blindsight. Blindsense is a more vague version of Blindsight. Darkvision is a vision. It's like in a very dimly lit room where you can see just shapes and shades of gray, though more precisely.

No. It isn't like being in a dim room. It is like looking at a B&W TV screen out to 60'.
Shadowfax7
03-17-08, 08:18 PM When this darkvision is used conjection with this darkvision, you end up with bright for 20, shadowy for 20 beyond that, and black & white darkvision for 20 beyond that. The creature using darkvision could actually see in the last 20 ft better than he could the middle 20.I disagree, you see as if in bright light for 60' (albeit in b&w for the last 20'). The torchlight has no effect for the first 40' except to allow color vision. In fact, there is no miss chance until 61'.
Nathreet
03-17-08, 08:26 PM Darkvision lets you see even when there's absolutely no light, as far as the range specified. Providing light does not help you see further with darkvision, but it might help you see further with normal vision or low light vision.
xcountry
03-17-08, 10:28 PM so by what u guys are saying it's like rediks vision from pitch black and chronicals of ridik and it's fades when u get pass 60'
ciaran
03-18-08, 08:25 AM I suppose the mid 20 ft shadowy part is a bit rediculous.
Kursk
03-18-08, 10:10 AM so by what u guys are saying it's like rediks vision from pitch black and chronicals of ridik and it's fades when u get pass 60'

The scene out to 60' is fully lit but like a B&W TV (for anyone here old enough to remember) and the vision stops COMPLETELY after 60'
Shadowfax7
03-18-08, 05:52 PM The scene out to 60' is fully lit but like a B&W TV (for anyone here old enough to remember) and the vision stops COMPLETELY after 60'Unless there is torch light, then it's color for the first 40'.
Kursk
03-18-08, 06:36 PM Unless there is torch light, then it's color for the first 40'.

No, then it's normal vision within the area illuminated.
Shadowfax7
03-19-08, 06:44 AM No, then it's normal vision within the area illuminated.Normal vision = color vision
1 ton ghost
03-19-08, 03:40 PM i know some hardasses that stipulate that soon as a Darkvision viewer is subject to normal light, his total spectrum changes. that is, they don't allow for both viewing spectrums at once. it's 1 or the other. ie)you can't see in both color and b/w.

this was particularly effective in an Underdark campaign where simple cantriped Light was employed. ultimately, treated like flares if you will, Light among drow enemies changed their superior 120ft (darkvision) into the Light's paltry 20ft (no low-light for them).

however, for balance purposes, i can see why they grant you the first increments as, "i see color at 20ft due to the torch, but 40 beyond that in B/W" per normal (60ft) darkvision.

i guess i just don't see how too easilly. it feels odd even between ranges and depth of field per photography maxims. attenuating to your rogue 10 ft ahead in scout mode but scanning forward 50 ft to see the orc he doens't see.

closest approximation i can think of is our own, human night vision. and it takes, typically, 20minutes for the rhodopsin in your eyes to adjust for "true night" vision. this is why a lot of snipers and their ilk keep 1 eye closed when they can help it to maintain that end.
Shadowfax7
03-19-08, 08:32 PM "i see color at 20ft due to the torch, but 40 beyond that in B/W" per normal (60ft) darkvision.It's 40' color vision and 20' b&W. Shadowy Illumination is not stated to be b&w in the rules.

For that matter, a human being can see color in a darkened room. Vision doesn't turn b&w just because there isn't enough light.
Kohdok
03-20-08, 01:44 AM I figure Darkvision works like you were looking through Night-Vision goggles. Just imagine that rather than green, it's gray.

I agree with the "One spectrum at a time" thing, too. If you look through night-vision goggles when it's bright, you find that your vision is totally whited-out.
1 ton ghost
03-20-08, 11:44 AM It's 40' color vision and 20' b&W. Shadowy Illumination is not stated to be b&w in the rules.

For that matter, a human being can see color in a darkened room. Vision doesn't turn b&w just because there isn't enough light.

i never said Shadowdy Illumination was. that is, i thought Darkvision supercedes the Concealment afforded by lack of light, hence it's namesake, "Darkvision". perhaps i'm oversimplifying. there's an issue here they don't really cover in the PHB. or more likely, i'm just missing it here at work w/ no WotC books of my own available.

i mean, you're offer of color detail at 20 & 20 more ft. (shadowy), though intriguing, is tactically unsound. not sure what the ruling is on that anyway. i would rather default into Darkvision and cancel out the 20% Concealment in the Shadowy area than maintain normal color sight at 20ft and another 20ft in Shadowy Illumination w/ 20% Concealment...ie)no Sneak Attacks, anyone can Hide, etc. Dangerous...

so, what's the official story on that anyway?

are you forced to accept the area of Shadowy Illuminance when dealing w/ mixed vision, normal & darkvision's b/w? i thought Darkvision canceled that out. that is, you have a torch (20ft light), after which what would normally be 20% Concealment (form light discrepancies only) is canceled out Darkvision engages.

hence, 20 ft. color, 40 ft. in B/W....
illithid_guy
03-20-08, 06:53 PM You don't get any negative affects from darkvision, it doesn't mean you see
all black and white when you happen to be next to an area of shadowy illumination, just when your looking into the shadows, you can't be blinded when using darkvision by a bright light. However, I wonder what would happen if there
was a darkvision using character on one side of the corridor, a patch of non-magical darkness 20 ft. out in front of him, and a fully lit area of the corridor
beyond that, the character could see through the darkness into the next corridor, but would he see it in color or in B&W? :confused:
1 ton ghost
03-21-08, 10:49 AM hmm, not sure.
all i know (IMO anyway) is that if it's w/in 60ft (assuming normal Darkvision) and would normally be afforded Concealment due to Shadowy Illumination, barring spell FX mind you, Darkvision woudl supercede that said Concealment and you'd perceieve it normally. so, basically by this theory, you get the normal area of full illuminance, but beyond that, darkvion compensates i guess. not sure if this is correct though, jury's still out...

it's limiting though when you think about it. this is why in many books they stipulate plenty of torchlight and so on in drow cities and the like. living in B/W 24/7 would suck and severely cripple many aspects of said species' culture. that's just "fluff" as they say though, not specifically going to malign your game mechanically speaking for combat and the like. however...

you'd think it would have rather alarming ramifications concerning Spot vs. Disguise and the like. it would be hard to differentiate many details of an obscured intruder much less "cutting the red or green wire". wtf, right? wouldn't un-identified potions be harder to gauge by smell and viscousity alone if you couldn't distinguish color? the list goes on...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BloodPuppy 03-16-08, 08:09 PM	We are having an argument as we are playing now and none of us can find the answer. Doesnt darkvision come into play after the light of a torch? i have DV of 70' and a party member has a torch going. Can i see past the light with DV.
calronmoonflower 03-16-08, 08:17 PM	Yes it is separate from the torch light, so you can see farther than the torch would normally allow.
AtsuiShoto 03-17-08, 06:09 AM	Darkvision is a strange, strange sort of vision. You will be able to see anything as clearly as in daylight (except it is monochromatic), out to 70 feet from you, no matter how dark or light it is. Anything 71 feet from you, however, is seen exactly the same way humans see.
Shadowfax7 03-17-08, 07:05 AM	You will be able to see anything as clearly as in daylight (except it is monochromatic), out to 70 feet from you, no matter how dark or light it is. 60' for normal Darkvision. To the OP, note that it does not stack with the illumination of the torch, it supercedes it.
Naderion 03-17-08, 08:35 AM	I think darkvision works like an extremely precise sonar.
ArochanoX 03-17-08, 12:16 PM	I think darkvision works like an extremely precise sonar. I think that's Blindsight. Blindsense is a more vague version of Blindsight. Darkvision is a vision. It's like in a very dimly lit room where you can see just shapes and shades of gray, though more precisely.
ciaran 03-17-08, 06:01 PM	A regular, run-of-the-mill torch sheds bright light out to 20 ft and shadowy light 20 feet beyond that. Regular,run-of-the-mill darkvision is 60 ft. When this darkvision is used conjection with this darkvision, you end up with bright for 20, shadowy for 20 beyond that, and black & white darkvision for 20 beyond that. The creature using darkvision could actually see in the last 20 ft better than he could the middle 20. Strange, but thats how its written.
Kursk 03-17-08, 07:32 PM	I think darkvision works like an extremely precise sonar. Except it doesn't.
Kursk 03-17-08, 07:33 PM	I think that's Blindsight. Blindsense is a more vague version of Blindsight. Darkvision is a vision. It's like in a very dimly lit room where you can see just shapes and shades of gray, though more precisely. No. It isn't like being in a dim room. It is like looking at a B&W TV screen out to 60'.
Shadowfax7 03-17-08, 08:18 PM	When this darkvision is used conjection with this darkvision, you end up with bright for 20, shadowy for 20 beyond that, and black & white darkvision for 20 beyond that. The creature using darkvision could actually see in the last 20 ft better than he could the middle 20.I disagree, you see as if in bright light for 60' (albeit in b&w for the last 20'). The torchlight has no effect for the first 40' except to allow color vision. In fact, there is no miss chance until 61'.
Nathreet 03-17-08, 08:26 PM	Darkvision lets you see even when there's absolutely no light, as far as the range specified. Providing light does not help you see further with darkvision, but it might help you see further with normal vision or low light vision.
xcountry 03-17-08, 10:28 PM	so by what u guys are saying it's like rediks vision from pitch black and chronicals of ridik and it's fades when u get pass 60'
ciaran 03-18-08, 08:25 AM	I suppose the mid 20 ft shadowy part is a bit rediculous.
Kursk 03-18-08, 10:10 AM	so by what u guys are saying it's like rediks vision from pitch black and chronicals of ridik and it's fades when u get pass 60' The scene out to 60' is fully lit but like a B&W TV (for anyone here old enough to remember) and the vision stops COMPLETELY after 60'
Shadowfax7 03-18-08, 05:52 PM	The scene out to 60' is fully lit but like a B&W TV (for anyone here old enough to remember) and the vision stops COMPLETELY after 60'Unless there is torch light, then it's color for the first 40'.
Kursk 03-18-08, 06:36 PM	Unless there is torch light, then it's color for the first 40'. No, then it's normal vision within the area illuminated.
Shadowfax7 03-19-08, 06:44 AM	No, then it's normal vision within the area illuminated.Normal vision = color vision
1 ton ghost 03-19-08, 03:40 PM	i know some hardasses that stipulate that soon as a Darkvision viewer is subject to normal light, his total spectrum changes. that is, they don't allow for both viewing spectrums at once. it's 1 or the other. ie)you can't see in both color and b/w. this was particularly effective in an Underdark campaign where simple cantriped Light was employed. ultimately, treated like flares if you will, Light among drow enemies changed their superior 120ft (darkvision) into the Light's paltry 20ft (no low-light for them). however, for balance purposes, i can see why they grant you the first increments as, "i see color at 20ft due to the torch, but 40 beyond that in B/W" per normal (60ft) darkvision. i guess i just don't see how too easilly. it feels odd even between ranges and depth of field per photography maxims. attenuating to your rogue 10 ft ahead in scout mode but scanning forward 50 ft to see the orc he doens't see. closest approximation i can think of is our own, human night vision. and it takes, typically, 20minutes for the rhodopsin in your eyes to adjust for "true night" vision. this is why a lot of snipers and their ilk keep 1 eye closed when they can help it to maintain that end.
Shadowfax7 03-19-08, 08:32 PM	"i see color at 20ft due to the torch, but 40 beyond that in B/W" per normal (60ft) darkvision.It's 40' color vision and 20' b&W. Shadowy Illumination is not stated to be b&w in the rules. For that matter, a human being can see color in a darkened room. Vision doesn't turn b&w just because there isn't enough light.
Kohdok 03-20-08, 01:44 AM	I figure Darkvision works like you were looking through Night-Vision goggles. Just imagine that rather than green, it's gray. I agree with the "One spectrum at a time" thing, too. If you look through night-vision goggles when it's bright, you find that your vision is totally whited-out.
1 ton ghost 03-20-08, 11:44 AM	It's 40' color vision and 20' b&W. Shadowy Illumination is not stated to be b&w in the rules. For that matter, a human being can see color in a darkened room. Vision doesn't turn b&w just because there isn't enough light. i never said Shadowdy Illumination was. that is, i thought Darkvision supercedes the Concealment afforded by lack of light, hence it's namesake, "Darkvision". perhaps i'm oversimplifying. there's an issue here they don't really cover in the PHB. or more likely, i'm just missing it here at work w/ no WotC books of my own available. i mean, you're offer of color detail at 20 & 20 more ft. (shadowy), though intriguing, is tactically unsound. not sure what the ruling is on that anyway. i would rather default into Darkvision and cancel out the 20% Concealment in the Shadowy area than maintain normal color sight at 20ft and another 20ft in Shadowy Illumination w/ 20% Concealment...ie)no Sneak Attacks, anyone can Hide, etc. Dangerous... so, what's the official story on that anyway? are you forced to accept the area of Shadowy Illuminance when dealing w/ mixed vision, normal & darkvision's b/w? i thought Darkvision canceled that out. that is, you have a torch (20ft light), after which what would normally be 20% Concealment (form light discrepancies only) is canceled out Darkvision engages. hence, 20 ft. color, 40 ft. in B/W....
illithid_guy 03-20-08, 06:53 PM	You don't get any negative affects from darkvision, it doesn't mean you see all black and white when you happen to be next to an area of shadowy illumination, just when your looking into the shadows, you can't be blinded when using darkvision by a bright light. However, I wonder what would happen if there was a darkvision using character on one side of the corridor, a patch of non-magical darkness 20 ft. out in front of him, and a fully lit area of the corridor beyond that, the character could see through the darkness into the next corridor, but would he see it in color or in B&W? :confused:
1 ton ghost 03-21-08, 10:49 AM	hmm, not sure. all i know (IMO anyway) is that if it's w/in 60ft (assuming normal Darkvision) and would normally be afforded Concealment due to Shadowy Illumination, barring spell FX mind you, Darkvision woudl supercede that said Concealment and you'd perceieve it normally. so, basically by this theory, you get the normal area of full illuminance, but beyond that, darkvion compensates i guess. not sure if this is correct though, jury's still out... it's limiting though when you think about it. this is why in many books they stipulate plenty of torchlight and so on in drow cities and the like. living in B/W 24/7 would suck and severely cripple many aspects of said species' culture. that's just "fluff" as they say though, not specifically going to malign your game mechanically speaking for combat and the like. however... you'd think it would have rather alarming ramifications concerning Spot vs. Disguise and the like. it would be hard to differentiate many details of an obscured intruder much less "cutting the red or green wire". wtf, right? wouldn't un-identified potions be harder to gauge by smell and viscousity alone if you couldn't distinguish color? the list goes on...