Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hanzo187 07-01-07, 02:51 PM	I wanted to make a kind of race that was based off the Werewolf, but I wanted to draw it from myths, stories, and movies. I also wanted to see the prospect of a person who had only half of the Werewolf in them, and this was the result. I know Werewolves have DR/silver in DnD, but I wanted to draw from other areas, where silver was a weakness. I'm not sure if I succeeded, but I didn't want to make it too powerful to avoid Level Adjustment. I think I balanced it, but I need input in that regard. The Demi-Wolf (Half-Human, Half-Werewolf) History: The Demi-Wolf is probably one of the least numerous races in all the lands. The spawn of a Human and a Werewolf, the Demi-Wolf is born in one of two ways: The normal way, where the Human and Werewolf parents will birth a Demi-Wolf child, or; The Werewolf may infect a pregnant Human mother with lycanthropy. Although the former is more common, the chances of the mother surviving a Demi-Wolf birth are not high, being around only 30%, even if the mother is a Werewolf. In addition, the Werewolf parent, whether it be the mother or the father, almost always abandons the child at birth, seeing them as half-breeds that will never measure up to a true Werewolf. Life: The Demi-Wolf’s childhood is not an easy one. Since they rarely grow up with parents, they often live in the streets, eating whatever they can find, and fighting to survive. When they reach their late teens, the Werewolf in them becomes unlocked, and at around this time, they experience their first transformation when they gaze into the Full Moon. During the first transformation, they have some control of themselves, but they are are often in such confusion that they will actively try to avoid people to resist the temptation they feel. Unfortunately, if an unsuspecting person comes upon a Demi-Wolf during his first change, he might attack that person. However, they have just enough will so they can resist killing if they so choose. After this first change, they often do not change again until they become stronger. It is possible that the Moon is only able to unlock the Demi-Wolf's power, but is otherwise incapable to causing another change. It is entirely up to the Demi-Wolf whether or not he wishes to use his new-found abilities. Alignment: Although Werewolves are mostly Chaotic Evil, almost no Demi-Wolves are of that alignment. In fact, their alignments are almost as various as the Humans. Some Demi-Wolves are Good, while some are Evil. However, the Demi-Wolf's life and loner nature makes Neutral a bit more reasonable. Since the Demi-Wolf grew up outside the arms of the law, they are often Chaotic, though Lawful Demi-Wolves are not unheard-of. Physical Description: Demi-Wolves are a tall, somewhat hairly folk. The average Demi-Wolf stands around 5 1/2 to 6 1/2 feet tall and weighing around 150 to 250 pounds. Females tend to be somewhat lighter and shorter than males. In terms of appearance, a Demi-Wolf's head and facial hair is identical in color to the fur of their wolf form: Brown, black, and gray, with black being slightly more common. Demi-Wolves tend to have greater amounts of hair on their forearms, chest, and shins. A Demi-Wolf's skin tone is somewhat various, though they are never pale nor dark-skinned. An mild tan or olive complexion ia most common. Their noses are also slightly longer to reflect their wolf nature. They also have either brown or black eyes. Demi-Wolves reach adulthood at around age 24, with the most hardy Demi-Wolf living 270 years. Personality: A Wizard once called Demi-Wolves "savage poets". Though they generally have somewhat Human-like personalities, there are notable differences. Naturally, their Werewolf blood carries an innate savagery, making them less refined, more reserved, and slightly more simple-minded than Humans. However, that same blood gives them great intuition. Most Demi-Wolves, while simple, are wise, have good instincts, and have greater common sense than many other races. Relations: Due to their half-Human blood and difficulty fitting in, Demi-Wolves often have lasting friendships with Half-Elves and Half-Orcs. These races have a lot of common ground and get along best with each other. They also have little problem with Gnomes, Humans, or Halflings. They are generally indifferent towards Elves and Dwarves. If not raised by their Lycan parent, most Demi-Wolf will have a low regard for Werewolves. They will not hate them, but they will never trust one, and the slightest hint of treachery the Demi-Wolf smells will usually end that Werewolf's life. Food and Sleep: A Demi-Wolf does not need as much food or sleep as a Human. Though they often crave blood, red meat can sate that need. In addition, Demi-Wolves need 1/2 as much food as Humans do to be nourished. They also only require 6 hours of sleep a day, compared to 8 hours for a Human. Ability Score Mods: +2 Dex +2 Wis -2 Int -2 Cha Demi-Wolves are more nimble than Humans, and their control over their wolf form makes them strong-willed. However, their werewolf blood carries a mild bestial nature, and the rough childhood most Demi-Wolves experience make them distant and reserved. Racial Features: Medium Humanoid (Shapechanger) 30’ Movement Low-Light Vision Color Blindness: The Demi-Wolf can only see in black, white, and shades of gray. +2 Racial bonus on Climb, Listen, and Tumble checks Languages: Common, Abyssal Bonus Languages: Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Orc, Sylvan Favored Class: Ranger or Ninja (1st class chosen counts as favored): A multiclass Demi-Wolf's Ranger or Ninja class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing. Special Qualities: Transformation (Su): The Demi-Wolf, early in his life, begins to unlock some of his Werewolf traits. When the Demi-Wolf becomes stronger of body and soul, he is able unlock his Werewolf power more often, and for longer periods of time. As a Move Action, the Demi-Wolf can transform into the Hybrid Form of a Werewolf. When transformed, the Demi-Wolf gets a slightly elongated snout, gray fur all over his body, slightly pointed ears, claws on his fingers, and a more defined physique, but his legs remain human-shaped. Though the Demi-Wolf has full control over his Hybrid Form (and thus does not need to make Control Shape checks), he does not get as much benefit out of this form as a full-blooded Werewolf. The Hybrid Form grants a +2 enhancement bonus to Strength and Constitution, and a -4 penalty to Intelligence and Charisma. If the penalty to Intelligence lowers the Demi-Wolf's Int. to 7 or less, he loses proficiency with his weapons until he reverts to Humanoid Form. In addition, the Demi-Wolf cannot use Int- or Cha-based Skills while in Hybrid Form, even if his Int. is greater than 7. The Demi-Wolf, when transformed, gains claws that can be used as natural weapons and deal 1d4 damage. Both claws can be used, with one counting as primary and the other as secondary. The secondary claw attack suffers a -5 penalty to hit rolls and only 1/2 of the Demi-Thrope's Str bonus can be applied. If the Demi-Wolf is holding a weapon in his primary hand, he can use a claw as a secondary attack. In addition, the Demi-Wolf can choose one of the following racial traits at creation, and an additional one every ten character levels, which are applied when transformed: Any Level: Bloodnose: The Demi-Wolf gains the Scent ability. Fingerblade: The Demi-Wolf's claw attack deals 1d6+1 damage. Glaceclaw: The penalty for using the Demi-Wolf's secondary claw. attack becomes -2, and he can apply his full Str Modifier to damage. Longsnout: The Demi-Wolf gains a Bite attack that deals 1d4 damage. Redeye: The Demi-Wolf gains Darkvision 60' (cannot be taken with Blueeye). Soulroar: The Demi-Wolf gets a +2 racial bonus to his Saving Throws. Stonefur: The Demi-Wolf gets a Natural Armor bonus to AC equal to the number of times he can transform per day. 10th and 20th Level only: Blueeye: The Demi-Wolf gets a +5 racial bonus on all Wisdom-based Skill checks (cannot be taken with Redeye). Greatear: The Demi-Wolf gains Tremorsense out to 30'. Strongchange: The Demi-Wolf gets a +3 bonus to Dex and Con (instead of +2) and a -3 penalty to Int and Cha (instead of -4). Mindslash: The Demi-Wolf retains proficiency with his weapons, even if his Int becomes 7 or less. Quadruped: The Demi-Wolf gains a Leaping Pounce attack. The Demi-Wolf can remain transformed for 2 + Wis Modifier + 1/4 his BAB (rounded down) rounds. A Demi-Wolf can transform 1 + 1/5 his BAB (rounded down) times per day. Example: A Demi-thrope with +9 BAB can transform 2/day. A Demi-Wolf can return to Humanoid Form prematurely as a Move Action, but he loses his current use of the ability. Otherwise, he normally returns to Humanoid Form as a Free Action. The Demi-Wolf cannot change into Animal Form. The Demi-Wolf’s ability to transform can never be removed, not even by a Remove Curse spell or by wolfsbane. Weakness to Silver (Ex): Werewolves are known for being weak against silver, and this weakness extends to their half-breed children, though to a lesser extent. When there is silver in the Demi-Wolf’s body (such as when the Demi-Thrope is pierced by an arrow or has a dagger stuck in him), he reverts to Humanoid Form and cannot transform until the silver is removed. Additionally, he takes 1d2 points of burn damage for every round the silver is in his body (after the first round). The damage becomes 1 point at 5th Level, and no damage at 10th Level. Removing a silver object from a Demi-Wolf’s body counts as a Standard Action. Until he reaches 3rd Level, the Demi-Wolf will be immediately Sickened when silver pierces his body. Enemies do not receive attack and damage bonuses for using silver weapons against a Demi-Wolf. Only embedding the weapon will have an adverse effect on them. Wolfsbane Immunity (Ex): The Demi-Wolf is immune to the effects of wolfsbane. Racial Immunity (Ex): The Demi-Wolf cannot be infected by lycanthropy. Non-Contagion (Ex): Demi-Wolves cannot transmit lycanthropy. Aging Table: Adulthood Middle Age Old Venerable Max Age 24 90 150 210 +3d20 Random Starting Ages Barbarian Bard Cleric Rogue Fighter Druid Sorcerer Paladin Monk Ranger Wizard +2d4 +4d4 +6d4 Height/Weight Table Male Base Height Height Mod Base Weight Weight Mod 4’ 11" +2d12 110 lbs. x 2d4 lbs. Female Base Height Height Mod Base Weight Weight Mod 4’7’ +2d10 85 lbs. x 2d4 lbs. Racial Progression Table Lv. Racial Abilities 1st Silver Damage (1d2), Transformation, 1st Racial Trait 2nd 3rd no Silver Sickness 4th 5th Silver Damage (1 point) 6th 7th 8th 9th 10th Silver Damage (none), 2nd Racial Trait 11th 12th 13th 14th 15th 16th 17th 18th 19th 20th 3rd Racial Trait Class Suggestions: Since the Demi-Wolf takes penalties in Int and Cha, they do not make efficient Wzards, Bards, or Sorcerers. The Int penalty itself may make learning skills difficult if it is not high before the penalty is assessed. Nevertheless, one class the Demi-Wolf would work well in is the Ranger. The Dex bonus can improve AC and Dex-Based Skills, while the Wis bonus allows the Ranger to unlock high-level spells and boost his tracking abilities. The Ninja is also another excellent class (despite the loss of a skill point) because it guarantees a +2 bonus to AC before even beginning, and the Wis bonus brings in a much-needed extra use of Ki Power. If the Demi-Wolf is Lawful, he could consider being a Monk, for reasons similar to the Ninja. Rogue is also an open door, as is the Cleric, especially if the Demi-Wolf started with a high Wis score to begin with, but they should be careful about the Cha penalty and weigh their options carefully before choosing this class. Sample Demi-Wolf: Name: Okami Class Level: Ninja 1 Alignment: N Age: 27 H: 5’11” W: 186 lbs. Speed: 30 ft. Weapons: Ninja-To (Short Sword), Aiguchi (Dagger), Short Bow, Nunchaku Equipment: Flint and Steel, Smokestick, Waterskin, Quiver of 20 arrows, Pouch Belt, Thieves’ Tools, Caltrops BAB: +0 Grp: +0 Init: +4 HP: 7 AC: 17 Touch AC: 17 Flat-Footed AC: 13 (+4 Dex., +3 Wis.) Ability Scores Str 11 (+0) Dex 19 (+4) Con 13 (+1) Int 14 (+2) Wis 16 (+3) Cha 7 (-2) SQ: Trapfinding, Ki Power (4 uses) SA: Sudden Strike +1d6 Feats: Combat Reflexes Skills: Balance +7, Climb +2, Disable Device +5, Escape Artist +6, Hide +8, Jump +3, Listen +7, Move Silently +7, Open Lock +6, Search +4, Sleight of Hand +8, Spot +7, Tumble +8 Languages: Common, Abyssal, Sylvan, Draconic Saving Throws: Fort: +1 Ref: +6 Will: +3 (+5 when Ki isn’t empty) Original Rolls: 17, 16, 14, 13, 11, 9
vegetalss4 07-01-07, 03:03 PM	this is very good but i got a few questions. 1. if a human and a werewolf mating makes a Demi-Thrope how do natural werewolfes come into being:confused: 2. why does it take a full round action to take an arrow out of your body? 3. what are the La for this?
Crimson_Concerto 07-01-07, 03:07 PM	What's wrong with the Shifter race? :confused:
Spikes01k 07-01-07, 05:04 PM	What's wrong with the Shifter race? :confused: This is slightly more powerful, and the game play is more similar to that of an actual lycanthrope. If this is LA: 1 its perfectly fine.
Captain_Kobold 07-01-07, 06:38 PM	You might want to define when it counts as a full moon for the purposes of the transformation bonuses a little better. One night a month? Three? When the DM deems appropriate? What sort of concept were you aiming for? The existing Lycanthropy fits better with the myths and legends I think. Rules-wise it sounds like you could duplicate the race using existing rules fairly closely using a shifter with a couple of shifter feats. They seem to be the result of lycanthropes and humans breeding. Just mix a few levels of Weretouched master into your character to represent better control and unlocking of Lycanthrope abilities. As to the LA, I think it might be closer to a weak LA +2 than an acceptable +1.
Hanzo187 07-03-07, 07:13 PM	1. if a human and a werewolf mating makes a Demi-Thrope how do natural werewolfes come into being 2. why does it take a full round action to take an arrow out of your body? 3. what are the La for this? 1. Part of the inspiration for the Demi-Thrope came from the Underworld movies. IMO, it could have been a deity bestowing a radical new disease for the fun of it, or a Human with some disease got rabies from a wolf, causing the two diseases to blend and make lycanthropy 2. It takes time to pull out an embedded weapon. If there's an arrow that went through you, you have to pull it all the way out. Plus, you might be wearing armor, which makes pulling out a weapon longer, too. Bear in mind, though, this only applies to silver weapons (probably should've mentioned that) 3. I was trying to have no LA. I wanted a base race that had some (weak) Werewolf traits and was not as strong as the Werewolf, at least on paper, anyway. What's wrong with the Shifter race? Nothing, really. I did this mostly to try my hand at making a custom race that played off a somewhat alien concept. It's still not finished, and I'll get back to it soon. If this is LA: 1 its perfectly fine. As before, I wanted to avoid a LA, but at least I know. Thx. You might want to define when it counts as a full moon for the purposes of the transformation bonuses a little better. One night a month? Three? When the DM deems appropriate? I think I'm going to use the moon's phases (new, crescent, full, etc) to affect the transformation, both positively and adversely. What sort of concept were you aiming for? The existing Lycanthropy fits better with the myths and legends I think. I guess that's true. The Werewolf's DR is powerful, but I thought if someone used silver against them, it should have a more adverse effect than simply bypassing the DR, such as burn damage that heals at a Human rate. Rules-wise it sounds like you could duplicate the race using existing rules fairly closely using a shifter with a couple of shifter feats. They seem to be the result of lycanthropes and humans breeding. That requires a lot of feat burning, though, and I don't use the fighter class (rogue, ninja, and ranger for me). Besides, while he can divide up time, the transformation's duration in and of itself isn't long. Still, I probably should cut the time limit down, maybe to half, to balance it a little. Just mix a few levels of Weretouched master into your character to represent better control and unlocking of Lycanthrope abilities. I've never heard of Weretouched Master, so I have no clue what I could do with that. If you have info on it, I'll be interested. Nevertheless, this wasn't a protest thread, just an attempt at making something I thought would be interesting. That's all. I will playtest sometime b/c I like it's abilities. As to the LA, I think it might be closer to a weak LA +2 than an acceptable +1. The more input, the better.
Captain_Kobold 07-03-07, 09:16 PM	I think I'm going to use the moon's phases (new, crescent, full, etc) to affect the transformation, both positively and adversely. When do you define the phases beginning, and how long does each last? I guess that's true. The Werewolf's DR is powerful, but I thought if someone used silver against them, it should have a more adverse effect than simply bypassing the DR, such as burn damage that heals at a Human rate. Don't werewolves heal at a normal human rate once you manage to bypass their reduction (either by magic, silver, or sheer damage)? That requires a lot of feat burning, though, and I don't use the fighter class (rogue, ninja, and ranger for me). You can't take shifter feats as fighter bonus feats. Besides, while he can divide up time, the transformation's duration in and of itself isn't long. Still, I probably should cut the time limit down, maybe to half, to balance it a little. Currently, you have it so a Demi-thrope with an average con score (10) can tranform for 50 rounds each day, divided up however they wish. Even halving this to 25 rounds each day would mean that the character is almost always going to be able to transform for the entire duration of all the fights. Compare to a shifter; who can change only once each day, for 3 rounds. Weretouched Master is a prestige class in the Eberron Campaign Setting. It is a five-level class giving bonus shifter feats and abilities related to the animal the shifter was descended from.
blackjackg 07-03-07, 10:32 PM	Sadly, I lack the experience to judge the race in terms of game balance. I do however know enough to recommend that it should be demiANthrope. The "thrope" part by itself means nothing.
Hanzo187 07-05-07, 09:55 AM	When do you define the phases beginning, and how long does each last? At the beginning of a new campaign, I'd suggest having the DM roll 1d20 to determine one of the lunar phases. Since there's five base phases (New, Full, Waxing and Waning Crescent, Half), the DM can roll and find the phase. Each phase will last 5 or 6 days, which is pretty easy to track b/c, say you got Waxing Crescent, you adventured for two days, went back to town, and healed up for a week, it would now be Half Moon. Plus, If it's Full Moon, the DM can 1d20 again, and if it's 20, it's the Hunter's Moon. Something like that. Hope it makes sense. Don't werewolves heal at a normal human rate once you manage to bypass their reduction (either by magic, silver, or sheer damage)? I'm not sure. I think Werewolves have regeneration 5, and I think it works no matter the circumstances. I don't have Monster Manual with me, so I can't make the reference right now You can't take shifter feats as fighter bonus feats. I already knew that (probably didn't look that way, though), but if I'm a fighter, I have no problem taking Shifter feats at normal intervals (like all classes). If I'm not, I walk a fine line because when I take stealthy class, there are certain feats I need that can't wait, but I also can't wait to build shifter power, either. Rogues allow bonus feats, but they come pretty late in the game, and some of the abilities are necessary. Currently, you have it so a Demi-thrope with an average con score (10) can tranform for 50 rounds each day, divided up however they wish. Even halving this to 25 rounds each day would mean that the character is almost always going to be able to transform for the entire duration of all the fights. Compare to a shifter; who can change only once each day, for 3 rounds. Ah, okay, I got it now. In all fairness, then, the transformation is too long. All right then, what say if it became 1/2 Con Score ROUNDS. That seems more fair, and maybe limit transformations to 2/day b/c if you do a 3rd, when you change back you're fatigued. Would that balance it? Weretouched Master is a prestige class in the Eberron Campaign Setting. It is a five-level class giving bonus shifter feats and abilities related to the animal the shifter was descended from. I know the Eberron story, but nothing more. If I can find it, I might check it out. Sadly, I lack the experience to judge the race in terms of game balance. I do however know enough to recommend that it should be demiANthrope. The "thrope" part by itself means nothing. Could you elaborate on that last part? I'm interested in why that would be Demianthrope.
Spikes01k 07-05-07, 11:22 AM	If you need a LA 0 lycanthropy type check my lycan spawn in the signature.
Hanzo187 07-07-07, 07:17 PM	If you need a LA 0 lycanthropy type check my lycan spawn in the signature. Many thx. Strangely, our races seemed a bit similar, even though we went about it different ways. Yours looks more like a class (like the Vampire Spawn), while mine is a base race. I made some more changes to balance out my Demi-Thrope. I really like adding in the concept of the moon to make an advantage/diadvantage for this fella. It makes playing him a bit more interesting b/c the lunar phases create some variety and, at the same time, create a little balance. Granted, Low-Light Vision isn't great, and improving it may not help much, but it's better than regular vision, which could cause some trouble on Waning Crescent Moon nights.
blackjackg 07-07-07, 09:29 PM	Could you elaborate on that last part? I'm interested in why that would be Demianthrope. Well, I'm no linguist (so forgive me if I'm a little inaccurate) the original word lycanthropy (the condition of being a werewolf) comes from the prefix "lyc-" meaning wolf, and "anthro" meaning human. That's why the study of humans is anthropology. I can only assume that the word lycanthrope came from lycanthropy, rather than the other way around. In D&D, they decided to use the term to refer to all were-creatures, though the term "polyanthrope" would probably be more accurate. So, to recap, when dividing the word "lycanthrope," it should be divided into "lyc" and "anthrope" rather than "lycan" and "thrope" (despite what some movie producers would have you believe). Demianthrope would mean "part-human" Demithrope means nothing whatsoever.
Lionhearted 07-08-07, 02:26 AM	Actually the word Lycanthropy is derived from greek not latin lykánthropos (λυκάνθρωπος): λύκος, lýkos ("wolf") + άνθρωπος, ánthrōpos ("man") the universal collection name for "wereanimals" are Therianthropy which means "beast man" derived from therion (Θηριον), also greek ;) Demi or Demianthrope however is a pure "brittainisation" of the word, as the orginial latin word is dimidium, however it would be more fitting to use a greek prefix, given the roots Im no linguist either, but atleast i got a burning intrest for the furry beasts, and know how to use wikipedia and oh, natural therianthropes gives birth to more natural therianthropes. and afflicted ones have a 50% chance to heir a natural one. simple as that, core rules even.. nice try tho
Spikes01k 07-08-07, 12:02 PM	Many thx. Strangely, our races seemed a bit similar, even though we went about it different ways. Yours looks more like a class (like the Vampire Spawn), while mine is a base race. I made some more changes to balance out my Demi-Thrope. I really like adding in the concept of the moon to make an advantage/diadvantage for this fella. It makes playing him a bit more interesting b/c the lunar phases create some variety and, at the same time, create a little balance. Granted, Low-Light Vision isn't great, and improving it may not help much, but it's better than regular vision, which could cause some trouble on Waning Crescent Moon nights. Actually, mine is more of a template, than a race it-self. So that it can be applied to all possible base races for lycanthropy, and you can use something other than wolf as your lycanthropy type. Will give the race another look.
blackjackg 07-08-07, 01:09 PM	bunch of entirely accurate and correct linguistic stuff I defer to the poster with greater knowledge of the subject (and/or more time on his/her hands). Cheers.
Hanzo187 07-09-07, 06:39 PM	I'm with you on that one, blackjackg. I guess that means you're right. It's a little too late to make that change, but at least I know for future reference. I'm going to playtest this race as soon as I can. I think I'll go with Ranger (I have a Ninja already, but hey, I like Ninjas), then I'll figure out how it works out. I'm not too worried about problems, though.
Hanzo187 07-12-07, 06:56 PM	Just out of curiosity, do you folks believe I avoided the Level Adjustment and, at the same time, balanced the race out? I'd like to know.
Spikes01k 07-13-07, 12:32 AM	No you got a really week LA 1 that is over complicated.
Hanzo187 07-16-07, 05:34 PM	What if I got rid of the Moon's effects? That might make things less complicated, wouldn't it? In addition, instead of giving the transformation right away, what if I pushed it back to 6th Level, and limited the number of transformations to 1 per 6 HD, at a duration of 1/4 Con Score rounds? At the moment, the Demi-Thrope still gets fair Ability Mods, the Sense of Smell (awesome against Invisible enemies), and a fair (but not overly debilitating) weakness to silver. I'm doin' all I can to just make this fella a base race
Hanzo187 07-19-07, 08:22 PM	Okay, I just made a bunch of changes to the Demi-Thrope. I made Wis power the transformation instead of Con (from a flavor perspective, willpower, not hardiness, powers the Demi-Thrope's change), but only 1/2 Wis until 10th. I also got rid of the Moon effect, and its influence altogether. It was too convoluted, so I just axed it. I have it saved, so if anyone liked it, or wants to see it, ask and i'll show it, but it won't be part of the race. It just didn't work for me. Overall, the duration and number of uses make it fairly close to the Shifter. I'm thinking of putting up Racial Feats, but in all fairness, I think that advantage should probably be left with the Shifters. They get some good stuff that mine shouldn't get anyway, so I might put up Racial Feats. I don't know. If I think of something unique, we'll see.
Hanzo187 07-25-07, 07:48 PM	I'm still pondering Racial Feats, but that's for another day. I've playtested my Demi-Thrope PC (a Ninja), with fairly good results. Once he levels up, I'm giving him a level of Fighter to use an awesome Feat from Com. Scoundrel. I admit, even w/out the change, and w/ Scent and a weakness to silver, this guy has worked out pretty well.
Evilholyguy 07-25-07, 09:59 PM	seems to be workable. 2 thumbs up
ElberethSilverleaf 07-29-07, 03:37 AM	You're either a werewolf or you're not. Its like people trying to be 1/2 undead. You're either a vampire, lich, zombie, whatever or you're not. If you must, the closest has already been done with the schlocky shifter race in Eberron.
Spikes01k 07-29-07, 02:43 PM	You're either a werewolf or you're not. Its like people trying to be 1/2 undead. You're either a vampire, lich, zombie, whatever or you're not. If you must, the closest has already been done with the schlocky shifter race in Eberron. Well there is always in-be-tween steps, theres there draconic creature template the half dragon template, then the half dragon + draconic creature tempalte, so there is no reason there can't be a were wolf-light among natural born lycnathopy sense the deasiase is degratable, which shifters prove. *Hanzo187 Sorry this is still not balanced you would need a -8 to cha to balance that out by most any rules, and why the hell don't these guys have any STR bonus, were wolves are most well know for their Str, apart from having greater str bonus than dex. It just seems like a power-gamers dream, rather than a applicable role playing race. They have a high bonus to dex instead of str, which dex is better than str because it gets you more. And a huge negative to cha, even though it isn't enough to balance the bonuses to the stats. In addition to the long list of other abilities. Unless your going for a LA 1, which this is perfectly an LA1, then its over powered. If you have changed and ARE aiming for a LA 1 lycnathropy then I suggest move those alternate form bonuses from dex to str.
Hanzo187 07-30-07, 05:50 PM	*Hanzo187 Sorry this is still not balanced you would need a -8 to cha to balance that out by most any rules, and why the hell don't these guys have any STR bonus, were wolves are most well know for their Str, apart from having greater str bonus than dex. It just seems like a power-gamers dream, rather than a applicable role playing race. They have a high bonus to dex instead of str, which dex is better than str because it gets you more. And a huge negative to cha, even though it isn't enough to balance the bonuses to the stats. In addition to the long list of other abilities. Unless your going for a LA 1, which this is perfectly an LA1, then its over powered. If you have changed and ARE aiming for a LA 1 lycnathropy then I suggest move those alternate form bonuses from dex to str. NNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!! :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: :weep: :weep: :weep: :weep: :tantrum: :tantrum: :tantrum: :tantrum: All right, time to get serious: As you probably know, Spikes01k, I've been trying to avoid an LA for my new race, but it's getting difficult. I guess you're right about the DEX bonus being too beneficial, so I'll transfer the bonus from DEX to STR. If I imposed a -4 penalty to INT AND CHA, and prohibit the use of INT- and CHA-based Skills while transformed, that might help a little bit. What if I gave the claws back and said that if INT dropped too low, to say, 7 or 8, you'd lose proficiency w/ your weapons until you change back? Truth be told, I didn't want this race to have anything to do with power gaming. I wanted this race to have fair stealth and tracking capabilities that could get some much-needed extra power in times of desperation or heavy combat. I tried to orient my Demi-Thrope more towards the stealth/tracker classes, such as Rangers, Scouts, Ninjas, or Rogues. Just look at the race's Favored Classes. Yes, Rangers are good combatants, but in no way are they Paladins or Barbarians. Considering the usefulness of the Scent ability, I guess it would be more appropriate to push it back. I don't want to push it back too far, of course, but perhaps 4th Level would work? How about that? I'll get back to working on this in a day or two, but I need to edit something else for now. You're either a werewolf or you're not. Its like people trying to be 1/2 undead. You're either a vampire, lich, zombie, whatever or you're not. I don't think D would agree with you on that one. If you must, the closest has already been done with the schlocky shifter race in Eberron. Oh, I know that, believe me. I just wanted to do my own thing. Besides, the Shifters have advantages my Demi-Thrope doesn't: variety, Racial Feats (especially Healing Factor, I'd kill for that), Free Action Shifting, among other things. As before, I just wanted to do my own thing.
Hanzo187 08-02-07, 06:21 PM	Well, I made some more changes. I pushed back the Scent ability so it is not available until later. I also modified the Transformation, changing the Dex bonus to a Str bonus, and adding a -4 penalty to Int, with the restriction that if Int gets too low, Weapon Proficiency is lost until the Demi-Thrope returns to Humanoid Form. I'm trying my darndest to get my race to LA +0, but I'm starting to believe that may never happen. Ah well, can't blame a guy for trying. :bigeyes:
Hanzo187 08-10-07, 01:46 PM	I'm thinking of changing the Demi-Thrope's scent ability to perhaps blindsense. I'm thinking of giving blindsense 5' per 2 HD. In other words, if the Demi-Thrope has 6 HD, he has blindsense 15'. I was wondering what anybody though, esp. in terms of LA. If it forces a LA, it's as good as axed.
Captain_Kobold 08-10-07, 09:58 PM	Blindsense, even at only 5ft at low levels, would most definitely be worth LA. As to the rest, I'm still of the opinion that it would be much easier and less awkward to develop a new Shifter trait and use the shifter rules. Maybe throw in a few new shifter feats that characters can take to develop their Lycanthropic side, but many existing shifter traits and feats already seem to fit. (Shifter defense: gives DR/Silver for example)
Hanzo187 08-13-07, 05:55 PM	I see your point about blindsense, so that's as good as ruled out. What about a +2 bonus to two or three skills and moving the scent ability to the transformation only? I guess using the shifter would have helped me, but for one, I have little knowledge of Eberron outside of the Warforged, a little of the story, and a little info about the shifter, so using the shifter wouldn't have helped much. Additionally, I wanted a race that was not merely a descendent of the Lycans, but the CHILD of one. It's gotten a little complicated, so I plan to edit this soon, but I wanted to make a child of a Werewolf rather than merely the descendent of one. Also, races w/ Wis bonuses are pretty rare.
Spikes01k 08-13-07, 11:51 PM	With your rules on transformation times per day and all it sort of classifies as a sort of rage. I would use the following. +2 Str, +2 Dex +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha. I think that would be sort of balanced. I would also give them some natural weapons. * Natural Weapons Claws: 1D6 Bite: 1D8 At 1 Hit Die they may attack with two claws, one being the primary and the other being secondary at -5 hit and half strength. This does not increase in attacks with a higher base attack bonus. They may also at any time attack with a claw as a secondary off hand weapon at -5 to hit as part of a full round action attack. At 3 Hit Die a purified demon may attack with two claws at full base attack bonus and strength. This does not increase in attacks with a higher base attack bonus. At 6 Hit Die they may ether attack as two claws being primary and a bite as secondary with -5 to hit and 1/2 strength bonus; or as if each natural weapon is a weapon with the normal feat requirements. They may also at any time attack with a claw as a secondary off hand weapon at -5 to hit, or a bite at -5 to hit and 1/2 strength to damage. This does not increase in attacks with a higher base attack bonus. Here is my suggestion. IDK if I missed your duration and changes per day before, but that is a valid negative. Other factors need to balance this "rage" like ability though. Not sure about that yet. +2 Dex +2 Wis -2 Int -2 Cha Demi-Thropes are more nimble than Humans, and their control over their wolf form makes them strong-willed. However, their werewolf blood carries a mild bestial nature, and the rough childhood most Demi-Thropes experience make them distant and reserved. With this rage ability and TWO racial progression abilities I would suggest the following stats +2 Wis -2 Int -2 Cha. Note I moved the +2 Dex to the alternate form.
Hanzo187 08-14-07, 08:57 PM	Hmm... You seem to have a good idea here, Spikes. My natural weapons on the Demi-Thrope are not well-written, so this is useful. Naturally, if I used it, I'd knock the damage down, probably to 1d4 for the claws. I'm not sure about the bite because my race's mouth is only slightly longer than a Human's, so a bite might not be practical. I do like the restrictions I placed on the change, esp. since in MM, Hybrid Form Lycans prefer their natural weapons, so I placed a restriction. You need to roll 13 Int (to get 11) to avoid losing proficiency, but it's not impossible. As for the mods, +2 Wis -2 Int -2 Cha I could knock off one negative and balance this out perfectly. I still don't know if I'd run this way, but the natural weapons are well-explained, much better than mine, so when I get back to it (tommorow), I'll make some more edits.
Hanzo187 09-13-07, 07:08 PM	It's been a while since I worked on this race, but it's undergone numerous changes. It resembles a Shifter in a way, but with a lot of differences, and more restrictions than the Shifter's shifting (powered by BAB, weakness to silver, etc). Anyway, it looks quite a bit different from before.
Hanzo187 10-16-07, 02:09 PM	:bump: