Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Barnwellknight 01-11-07, 09:07 PM	According to many sources, Derro and Duergar were created after being exposed to experiments by mind flayers. However, I didn't like this so I changed it to something similar to how the drow came to be: The Duergar came to be after those dwarves who were loyal to Laduguer were banished along with Laduguer by Moradin. The banished dwarves went deep into the Underdark where their devotion to the banished god changed them into the Gray Dwarves they are today. Derro were dwarves who were banished by Moradin for remaining loyal to Diirinka and Diinkarazan. After their exile, the banished dwarves began to study ancient and forgotten magical lore...lore that was meant to be forgotten. The magic they unlocked was too much, and combined with the madness of their gods, the dwarves became the insane and power-hungry derro that they are today. Tell me what y'all think.
Mitchell 01-12-07, 12:06 AM	Sounds good to me, especially with the Derro uncovering/studying forbidden magic, since sorcerer is their favored class. Of course, with the Duergar it could be said that they are too much like the drow...
Barnwellknight 03-27-07, 10:23 AM	Well, the Duergars' new origin was meant to be similar to the origin of the Drow. I've worked on it: The Duergar came to be after those dwarves who were loyal to Laduguer were banished along with Laduguer by Moradin. The banished dwarves went deep into the Underdark. There, their hatred of the Banishment (the Banishment is to the Duergar as the Elfwars are to Drow) grew until they began to despise the other dwarven races. In time, their hatred, their devotion to Laduguer, and the radiation emitted from the Underdark changed them into the Gray Dwarves they are today.
michel andre 03-27-07, 10:57 AM	I thought Derro were like Muls: half-human and half-dwarf.
Barnwellknight 03-27-07, 05:40 PM	That's another reason why I didn't like the origin of the Derros. To me, it just didn't make sense.
Mobius 03-28-07, 12:17 AM	I am DM’ing an All Mountain Dwarf campaign. As you can imagine, Duergar are some of the main enemies. I came up with two (opposing) stories for the Duergar’s origin. The Dwarven story is similar to that of the fall of Lucifer. Laduguer was one of the chief Dwarven gods and second to Moradin himself. Laduguer was jealous of Moradin, and he planned an executed a robbery of some of Moradin’s great treasures and fled to the Underdark with his followers. Without Moradin’s protection, Laduguer’s dwarves ere captured and enslaved by Mind Flayers. During their centuries of captivity and eventual freedom, these dwarves were perverted to the bitter and evil Duergar of today. The Duergar story is that Moradin himself send them into the Underdark under the tutelage of Laduguer to mine and craft glorious weapons. Moradin saw how much more efficient and talented were the Laduguer dwarves compared to his own, so he paid the Mind Flayers to enslave them rather than face their superiority. These Laduguer Dwarves forged their identity as Duergar as they toiled endlessly and worked to their freedom. As much as they hate the Mind Flayers, the Duergar hate the Dwarves more as they blame them for their past enslavement. They consider themselves superior to other Dwarves in all of the important qualities: work ethic, craftsmanship, perseverance, cunning. The Dwarf PC’s only know of the first story since its what all Dwarves are taught, and they’ve never really talked to any Duergar.
Barnwellknight 03-28-07, 12:38 PM	Sounds good. Still, I didn't like the mind flayer-influence in regards to the gray dwarves' origin. That's like saying that mind flayers caused the drow to come into existence.
zuul88 03-28-07, 07:18 PM	The Duergar out of the XPH are not evil per se. They are "hard hearted neutral" The mind-flayers have a very big influence on all of the underdark, They are Mind-Flayers! They are just angry and sullen more then "surface" dwaves. They are also take what people cant defend. That is nature, taking what you want from those that cant defend themselves. Is the lion evil for taking the deers life? Is the deer evil for taking the grasses life? It is the underdark and needs to be looked at without all the "we are better then animals" attitudes surface dwellers have the privilege to indulge in. A primitive, animalistic, Natural(or whatever term used describe it) attitude is not evil within itself. Alignment is a personal thing as well as cultural. Duegar are avarious but take is not evil. Duegar also work hard to gain what they want(gold, gems, art.) So do adventures. Killing is part of work sometimes. That is very dwarven attitude. "The left side of your tool" Is a specific refence to using your tools of craft for tools of war. Nathan
Barnwellknight 03-29-07, 11:59 AM	Umm...In the MM, they are listed as having an evil alignment. Besides, Duregar in my world are one of the rulers of the Underdark (although the Drow, Mind Flayers, Beholders, Deep Dragons, etc. think their respective races are the rulers of the Underdark; FYI, in my world the true ruler of the Underdark is a Blackguard Lich who serves Nerull and Vecna). Anyhow, having the gray dwarves corrupted by their own hatred and jealousy and the evil powers of their deity sounds much better than having the mind flayers involved.
Seldriss 03-29-07, 12:25 PM	In the viking folklore, duergar (or dvergar) are just dwarves, duergar being the plural of dverg (dwarf). They are not more evil than good.
Barnwellknight 04-29-07, 07:04 PM	Good point.