Dire human/elf/etc.? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dire human/elf/etc.? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Branto
06-15-07, 01:28 AM Dire versions of the typical PC races.. have they been done before? What would they look like? ... Level adjustments? Ways to become dire if you aren't already? ;)

If you've got any relevant info or opinions, share 'em!
hiryuu
06-15-07, 01:39 AM I'm not an elf! I'm a dire halfling!
Rerecros
06-15-07, 01:45 AM There are already dire humans, neanderthals (frostburn)
Dire animals tend to be genetic throw backs.
AMGriffin
06-15-07, 01:51 AM Nah, it's not a bad idea though. Maybe a template would be in order. It'd really just be a "I'm better then you" template, unfortunately.

The feral template is a good place to start.
Potato_Dragon
06-15-07, 04:46 AM It's not really that hard to figure out.

First, dire animals are usually one size larger than their normal counterparts. This gives +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 con and +2 Natural AC to formerly medium-sized creatures.

And then, dire animals generally get +2 Str, +2 Dex, and +2 Cha on top of that. (Note, I'm going by my 3.0 MM and MM2, I haven't bothered to compare SRD stats to see if they're different. However, there's no "dire template", as some of them are a bit different than this.)

Then they get bonus HD, generally +4 HD for a formerly medium-sized creature. In addition, they are treated as if their animal HD granted high will saves.

This means a Dire Human would be large size and have: Str +10, Con +4, Cha +2, and Natural AC = 2. They would have 4 humanoid racial HD, granting 4d8 + Con mod x 4 hp, +3 BAB, +4 Fort, +1 Ref, +4 Will.

Basically, they'd be a smart Ogre.
Potato_Dragon
06-15-07, 04:56 AM Double post, deleted.
RealSorceror
06-15-07, 11:30 AM Dire versions of the typical PC races.. have they been done before? What would they look like? ... Level adjustments? Ways to become dire if you aren't already? ;)

If you've got any relevant info or opinions, share 'em!
Around here, we call those "Giants". ;)
Branto
06-15-07, 05:40 PM Giants. Hah. I'm thinking the NWN-style dire animals though, that weren't just bigger and prehistoric, they also had a downright monstrous quality to them. And for some reason, they all had spikes and or plates of bone.

Templates can work, I suppose.. but those are too simple. Why would a dire version of an elf have the same qualities (or rather, the same adjustments to qualities) as a dire dwarf? I'd expect a dwarf to mutate in a stockier way (a bigger natural armor increase.. and constitution!) while a dire elf would probably be lanky and swift, you know?

... And boney plates everywhere!! :D

EDIT: Oh yeah.. the dire versions of animals aren't dumber than the normal ones, are they? So, it can't really be a de-evolution thing. I like to think of Dire Animals as more of a "mutated bigger and badder" thing than a "oh it's a sabertooth tiger instead of a regular one" thing.
bahamut920
06-16-07, 01:53 AM I think they have sabre-toothed tigers in Frostburn. :D But I know what you mean. Unfortunately, with creatures of the Animal type - seeing as their Int scores are 1 or 2 when some should have much higher Int scores - it's hard to tell whether they've de-evolved intellectually, because there's no room for comparison.
Branto
06-16-07, 05:27 PM Maybe we could look at older editions? I'm fairly sure they didn't start that "All animals have 1 or 2 intelligence" nonsense until, like.. 3rd edition.
Lionhearted
06-16-07, 06:15 PM Dire elf.. wouldnt that be something like a fanboy vampire minus the vurnabilities?
Branto
06-16-07, 09:31 PM Dire elf.. wouldnt that be something like a fanboy vampire minus the vurnabilities?

And minus the blood drinking. And the supernatural abilities of all sort. And being undead.... uhh, basically minus the vampire alltogether. ;)

Nah, a dire elf.. if we're using "dire" to mean it's mutated in a monstrous sort of way NWN-style.. would probably be lanky and incredibly swift. Maybe have some natural blades or spikes somewhere, but probably not much along the way of bony plates. Probably have incredibly heightened senses.. be very catlike, in all.
AMGriffin
06-16-07, 09:35 PM A Dire elf would probably resemble a cross of night elves and Trolls from WoW.
DeciusNero
06-16-07, 10:16 PM As Rerecros pointed out, Neanderthals are basically 'dire humans'. I would take a look at the Neanderthal vs. the human and go for there.

I would say a 'dire elf' would look more like a primal fey creature; gnomes can be quasi-badger like, etc.

Hmm...do the DnD races believe in evolution or INT-design? :P
Johnny_Angel
06-16-07, 10:20 PM I'd say that a Neanderthal would be closer to a feral/primitive human than a dire human.

I'd view a dire human as being something closer to a giant.

just my opinion

It's a tough decision though because most dire creatures do tend to be a bit more feral-looking. hmm
Branto
06-17-07, 01:26 AM It's a tough decision though because most dire creatures do tend to be a bit more feral-looking. hmm

Feral means.. wild. How can a wild wolf look any more wild than it already is? Apart from maybe being very, very angry. Though, a dire PC race probably would look very wild, possibly also acting that way (simply by virtue of having such enhanced physical ability. Who needs to act polite when you're a monster?) however, acting wild doesn't automatically mean you're less intelligent than a normal person. Just less civilized. ;)
lord_xarallon
06-17-07, 10:12 AM Dire humans would evolve from dire apes.
skydin
06-20-07, 01:33 AM giants would be dire humans, because humans are themselves plain and without alot of super-special junk, so you would think dire humans would just be bigger, stronger humans with a few cool special abilities. sounds alot liek a giant doesnt it?

a dire elf has basicaly been pinned down

a dire gnome would be totaly eratic and genious with a bent towards pranks and super-powerful illusions. mommy, im scared...

and dire halflings would be like the blueberry girl (if you'd seen the newest willy wonka movie with jonny depp (dont know if thats spelled right)) only with lockpics for fingers and a natural addition to sneak attacks.

thats all i can think of. i may be totaly off, who knows, i dont, i want pie. I think we need to be clear, this is a giant, man eating toaster forged in the fires of hell, right?
Kelmourne
06-20-07, 02:02 AM Neanderthals aren't dire humans because dire animals are always stronger than the base animal. The feral template from savage species would be the best bet i think. But you could always come up with something on ur own. I would think a size increase and a bonus to str and con. Maybe a bonus or minus to some mental stats as well, but that could be streching it.
monkofcuthbert4684
06-21-07, 09:51 PM Dire elf...hmm. Well, my opinion is that a dire elf would be like a wild elf that has a really, really high strength.
EpicEvokerElf
06-23-07, 12:46 PM Dire humans would evolve from dire apes.
YES!!!
Lionhearted
06-23-07, 03:34 PM No.. dire human evolve from mad scientists
http://steve.yi.members.winisp.net/documents/hulk.jpg
Branto
06-23-07, 07:50 PM :heehee Brilliant. :D
lord_xarallon
06-24-07, 02:39 PM YES!!!

Can't take credit for it, 3E.
Look at Dragors sig.
monkofcuthbert4684
06-25-07, 05:37 PM No.. dire human evolve from mad scientists
http://steve.yi.members.winisp.net/documents/hulk.jpg

:ayyyy!:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Branto 06-15-07, 01:28 AM	Dire versions of the typical PC races.. have they been done before? What would they look like? ... Level adjustments? Ways to become dire if you aren't already? ;) If you've got any relevant info or opinions, share 'em!
hiryuu 06-15-07, 01:39 AM	I'm not an elf! I'm a dire halfling!
Rerecros 06-15-07, 01:45 AM	There are already dire humans, neanderthals (frostburn) Dire animals tend to be genetic throw backs.
AMGriffin 06-15-07, 01:51 AM	Nah, it's not a bad idea though. Maybe a template would be in order. It'd really just be a "I'm better then you" template, unfortunately. The feral template is a good place to start.
Potato_Dragon 06-15-07, 04:46 AM	It's not really that hard to figure out. First, dire animals are usually one size larger than their normal counterparts. This gives +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 con and +2 Natural AC to formerly medium-sized creatures. And then, dire animals generally get +2 Str, +2 Dex, and +2 Cha on top of that. (Note, I'm going by my 3.0 MM and MM2, I haven't bothered to compare SRD stats to see if they're different. However, there's no "dire template", as some of them are a bit different than this.) Then they get bonus HD, generally +4 HD for a formerly medium-sized creature. In addition, they are treated as if their animal HD granted high will saves. This means a Dire Human would be large size and have: Str +10, Con +4, Cha +2, and Natural AC = 2. They would have 4 humanoid racial HD, granting 4d8 + Con mod x 4 hp, +3 BAB, +4 Fort, +1 Ref, +4 Will. Basically, they'd be a smart Ogre.
Potato_Dragon 06-15-07, 04:56 AM	Double post, deleted.
RealSorceror 06-15-07, 11:30 AM	Dire versions of the typical PC races.. have they been done before? What would they look like? ... Level adjustments? Ways to become dire if you aren't already? ;) If you've got any relevant info or opinions, share 'em! Around here, we call those "Giants". ;)
Branto 06-15-07, 05:40 PM	Giants. Hah. I'm thinking the NWN-style dire animals though, that weren't just bigger and prehistoric, they also had a downright monstrous quality to them. And for some reason, they all had spikes and or plates of bone. Templates can work, I suppose.. but those are too simple. Why would a dire version of an elf have the same qualities (or rather, the same adjustments to qualities) as a dire dwarf? I'd expect a dwarf to mutate in a stockier way (a bigger natural armor increase.. and constitution!) while a dire elf would probably be lanky and swift, you know? ... And boney plates everywhere!! :D EDIT: Oh yeah.. the dire versions of animals aren't dumber than the normal ones, are they? So, it can't really be a de-evolution thing. I like to think of Dire Animals as more of a "mutated bigger and badder" thing than a "oh it's a sabertooth tiger instead of a regular one" thing.
bahamut920 06-16-07, 01:53 AM	I think they have sabre-toothed tigers in Frostburn. :D But I know what you mean. Unfortunately, with creatures of the Animal type - seeing as their Int scores are 1 or 2 when some should have much higher Int scores - it's hard to tell whether they've de-evolved intellectually, because there's no room for comparison.
Branto 06-16-07, 05:27 PM	Maybe we could look at older editions? I'm fairly sure they didn't start that "All animals have 1 or 2 intelligence" nonsense until, like.. 3rd edition.
Lionhearted 06-16-07, 06:15 PM	Dire elf.. wouldnt that be something like a fanboy vampire minus the vurnabilities?
Branto 06-16-07, 09:31 PM	Dire elf.. wouldnt that be something like a fanboy vampire minus the vurnabilities? And minus the blood drinking. And the supernatural abilities of all sort. And being undead.... uhh, basically minus the vampire alltogether. ;) Nah, a dire elf.. if we're using "dire" to mean it's mutated in a monstrous sort of way NWN-style.. would probably be lanky and incredibly swift. Maybe have some natural blades or spikes somewhere, but probably not much along the way of bony plates. Probably have incredibly heightened senses.. be very catlike, in all.
AMGriffin 06-16-07, 09:35 PM	A Dire elf would probably resemble a cross of night elves and Trolls from WoW.
DeciusNero 06-16-07, 10:16 PM	As Rerecros pointed out, Neanderthals are basically 'dire humans'. I would take a look at the Neanderthal vs. the human and go for there. I would say a 'dire elf' would look more like a primal fey creature; gnomes can be quasi-badger like, etc. Hmm...do the DnD races believe in evolution or INT-design? :P
Johnny_Angel 06-16-07, 10:20 PM	I'd say that a Neanderthal would be closer to a feral/primitive human than a dire human. I'd view a dire human as being something closer to a giant. just my opinion It's a tough decision though because most dire creatures do tend to be a bit more feral-looking. hmm
Branto 06-17-07, 01:26 AM	It's a tough decision though because most dire creatures do tend to be a bit more feral-looking. hmm Feral means.. wild. How can a wild wolf look any more wild than it already is? Apart from maybe being very, very angry. Though, a dire PC race probably would look very wild, possibly also acting that way (simply by virtue of having such enhanced physical ability. Who needs to act polite when you're a monster?) however, acting wild doesn't automatically mean you're less intelligent than a normal person. Just less civilized. ;)
lord_xarallon 06-17-07, 10:12 AM	Dire humans would evolve from dire apes.
skydin 06-20-07, 01:33 AM	giants would be dire humans, because humans are themselves plain and without alot of super-special junk, so you would think dire humans would just be bigger, stronger humans with a few cool special abilities. sounds alot liek a giant doesnt it? a dire elf has basicaly been pinned down a dire gnome would be totaly eratic and genious with a bent towards pranks and super-powerful illusions. mommy, im scared... and dire halflings would be like the blueberry girl (if you'd seen the newest willy wonka movie with jonny depp (dont know if thats spelled right)) only with lockpics for fingers and a natural addition to sneak attacks. thats all i can think of. i may be totaly off, who knows, i dont, i want pie. I think we need to be clear, this is a giant, man eating toaster forged in the fires of hell, right?
Kelmourne 06-20-07, 02:02 AM	Neanderthals aren't dire humans because dire animals are always stronger than the base animal. The feral template from savage species would be the best bet i think. But you could always come up with something on ur own. I would think a size increase and a bonus to str and con. Maybe a bonus or minus to some mental stats as well, but that could be streching it.
monkofcuthbert4684 06-21-07, 09:51 PM	Dire elf...hmm. Well, my opinion is that a dire elf would be like a wild elf that has a really, really high strength.
EpicEvokerElf 06-23-07, 12:46 PM	Dire humans would evolve from dire apes. YES!!!
Lionhearted 06-23-07, 03:34 PM	No.. dire human evolve from mad scientists http://steve.yi.members.winisp.net/documents/hulk.jpg
Branto 06-23-07, 07:50 PM	:heehee Brilliant. :D
lord_xarallon 06-24-07, 02:39 PM	YES!!! Can't take credit for it, 3E. Look at Dragors sig.
monkofcuthbert4684 06-25-07, 05:37 PM	No.. dire human evolve from mad scientists http://steve.yi.members.winisp.net/documents/hulk.jpg :ayyyy!: