Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Johnny_Angel 07-01-07, 09:54 PM	My mind is in a bit of a debate with itself as I sit here and contemplate this question. I have two different thoughts, but I want to see what some other responses are. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Characters without low-light vision and without dark vision can see fine in bright light. Characters without low-light vision and without dark vision can see dimly into shadowy illumination. Characters without low-light vision and without dark vision can't see in the dark. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Characters with low-light vision, but without dark vision can see twice as far as those without lowlight vision. (PHB pg 165 details how that actually works in mechanical game terms.) Characters with low-light vision, but without dark vision can see twice as far in shadowy illumination. Characters with low-light vision, but without dark vision can't see in the dark. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Characters with dark vision, but without low-light vision can see normally in bright light. Characters with dark vision, but without low-light vision can see normally in the dark up to 60 feet (the example uses Dwarves and Half-Orcs.) Now, I assume that dwarves, half-orcs, and other creatures can see shadowy areas without any problem - I assume that because pg 165 of the PHB says that creatures within 60 ft (within their darkvision range) would not be able to hide. However, it's unclear about how well such a creature could see in shadowy illuminated areas. Would the creatures in those areas still get partial concealment? Basically, this is what I am asking: A dwarf can see in a brightly lit room - no problems there A dwarf can see 60ft in the dark - no problems there Can a dwarf see in shadowy areas? If so, how well? It seems like a no-brainer, but -on the other hand- there are many creatures which are described as having both low-light vision and darkvision. What would be the point to having both types of vision if creatures with darkvision could see shadowy areas anyway?
KhosatralKhel 07-01-07, 10:12 PM	-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Characters without low-light vision and without dark vision can see fine in bright light. Characters without low-light vision and without dark vision can see dimly into shadowy illumination. Characters without low-light vision and without dark vision can't see in the dark. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Characters with low-light vision, but without dark vision can see twice as far as those without lowlight vision. (PHB pg 165 details how that actually works in mechanical game terms.) Characters with low-light vision, but without dark vision can see twice as far in shadowy illumination. Characters with low-light vision, but without dark vision can't see in the dark. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Baseline established. My one comment from the above is that in normal light, I "think" the low-light vision would not come into play. Low light would only matter in low light. Not broad daylight over distance. My two cents. A dwarf can see in a brightly lit room - no problems there A dwarf can see 60ft in the dark - no problems there Can a dwarf see in shadowy areas? If so, how well The dwarf could see 60ft into the shadowy area. Beyond that it would be limited just as a human.
ArochanoX 07-02-07, 12:24 AM	A creature with low-light vision cannot see twice as far as humans in daylight, that's an unique property of (true)dragons. Otherwise, your reasoning is good. So point having both darkvision and low-light vision is that when a character for example is in total darkness and wields a sunrod (30ft bright + 30ft shadowy), he could see to 60 ft normally (because of darkvision), when normal character could see only to 30ft normally. And the shadowy illumination would extend from 30ft to 90ft when normal character's shadowy illumination area is only from 30ft to 60ft. Basically a creature with both darkvision and low-light vision see better as a creature with only one said quality, but the difference comes only in some (special) occasions.
Neutronium_Dragon 07-02-07, 01:06 AM	Essentially, Low Light Vision and Darkvision are separate functions and their effects are applied separately. A creature with normal and/or Low Light Vision (regardless of whether they also have Darkvision) sees things as appropriate to the lit/shadowy/dark conditions at any given range. The only thing which Low Light Vision does is double the distances which are considered lit and shadowy. If the creature has Darkvision, then anything within range of that Darkvision is fully visible, regardless of the lit/shadowy/dark conditions at that range. The only quirk is that something which is in a dark area (according to the previous step) but within range of Darkvision will be seen only in black and white. If it's within a lit or shadowy area according to the previous step then it will be seen in color.
ArochanoX 07-02-07, 02:38 AM	Low-light vision (and shadowy therefore) is black and white, only gnomes have ability to distiguish color in shadowy illumination.
calronmoonflower 07-02-07, 02:43 AM	Low-light vision (and shadowy therefore) is black and white, only gnomes have ability to distiguish color in shadowy illumination. According the the glossary in the Monster Manuel low-light vision always allows to to tell colors apart.
ArochanoX 07-02-07, 03:48 AM	Ability description in the Player's Handbook states otherwise.
Radijs 07-02-07, 06:07 AM	Core over Splatbook.
Johnny_Angel 07-02-07, 06:17 AM	A creature with low-light vision cannot see twice as far as humans in daylight, that's an unique property of (true)dragons. Otherwise, your reasoning is good. So point having both darkvision and low-light vision is that when a character for example is in total darkness and wields a sunrod (30ft bright + 30ft shadowy), he could see to 60 ft normally (because of darkvision), when normal character could see only to 30ft normally. And the shadowy illumination would extend from 30ft to 90ft when normal character's shadowy illumination area is only from 30ft to 60ft. Basically a creature with both darkvision and low-light vision see better as a creature with only one said quality, but the difference comes only in some (special) occasions. Essentially, Low Light Vision and Darkvision are separate functions and their effects are applied separately. A creature with normal and/or Low Light Vision (regardless of whether they also have Darkvision) sees things as appropriate to the lit/shadowy/dark conditions at any given range. The only thing which Low Light Vision does is double the distances which are considered lit and shadowy. If the creature has Darkvision, then anything within range of that Darkvision is fully visible, regardless of the lit/shadowy/dark conditions at that range. The only quirk is that something which is in a dark area (according to the previous step) but within range of Darkvision will be seen only in black and white. If it's within a lit or shadowy area according to the previous step then it will be seen in color. Forgive me if I seem to be having trouble catching on, but I still don't quite see (no pun intended) what advantage a creature which has both darkvision and low-light vision would have over a creature which only had darkvision.
bobothechimp 07-02-07, 07:24 AM	Say you have three adventurers; an elf, a dwarf, and a whisper gnomes (the only race I can think of with darkvision and low-light vision). They are all in a pitch dark room. The dwarf and gnome can both see 60 feet due to darkvision. The elf cannot see at all, so he lights a torch, brightly illuminating a 20-foot radius and shadowy illuminating a 40-foot radius. The dwarf can still only see 60 feet. The elf, extending the range of light due to his low-light vision, can now see clearly for 40 feet and shadowy for 80 feet. The gnome, with low-light vision and darkvision, can now see clearly 60 feet and shadowy for 80 feet.
Captain_Kobold 07-02-07, 09:06 AM	If however the three races step outside the room at night the advantage changes. The dwarf can see fine (albeit black and white) for 60ft and then suffers the penalties for dim light for anything further. The races with low-light vision can see fine, right out to the limit of vision. This is why races that tend to live in caves or underground (where there is no light) tend to have Darkvision, whilst partially nocturnal races tend to have low-light.
Malchius 07-02-07, 02:03 PM	Does this mean a creature with Darkvision can see his normal darkvision range even with a light sourse, not using normal vision instead?
Kursk 07-02-07, 02:47 PM	Does this mean a creature with Darkvision can see his normal darkvision range even with a light sourse, not using normal vision instead? Yes.
jago668 07-13-07, 02:39 AM	Ability description in the Player's Handbook states otherwise. Just curious where you are reading this. Since when I look at the entries for Elf, Half-Elf, and Gnome it states under their low-light vision that they retain the ability to recognize color. When you look on page 164-165 it mentions nothing about losing the ability to see color when using low-light vision. In the DMG on page 67 where it mentions illumination it says nothing about low-light vision at all. On page 296 is states that low-light vision is color vision. In the Monster Manual on page 311 it states that low-light vision is color vision.