Post/Author/DateTime	Post
msavage 09-12-07, 01:57 AM	Just a newbie question. While most of the Evolved Undead Template (Libris Mortis) states it adds to the base creature and hence would stack with itself (each effectively creating a new base creature ie wraith + evolved Undead x 1, (wraith + evolved Undead x1) + evolved Undead x 1) and so forth [brackets indicates a new base creature]) it states that the creature gains Fast Healing 3 as a special ability. What if the undead already had Fast Healing either innately or as a result of a previous application of Evolved Undead? Do the effects stack or overlap? For instance would three applications of Evolved Undead increase an Undead's Fast Healing ability by 9? Any help appreaciated.
deathbane 09-12-07, 07:59 AM	Just a newbie question. While most of the Evolved Undead Template (Libris Mortis) states it adds to the base creature and hence would stack with itself (each effectively creating a new base creature ie wraith + evolved Undead x 1, (wraith + evolved Undead x1) + evolved Undead x 1) and so forth [brackets indicates a new base creature]) it states that the creature gains Fast Healing 3 as a special ability. What if the undead already had Fast Healing either innately or as a result of a previous application of Evolved Undead? Do the effects stack or overlap? For instance would three applications of Evolved Undead increase an Undead's Fast Healing ability by 9? Any help appreaciated. I think everything stacks including the AC bonusm except for the fast healing, because it is like SR in the fact that the highest number takes priority. I did not look up the fast healing fact, but if it were two different templates the higher one would take over, so I used that logic with the evolved undead.
Exooki 09-12-07, 08:36 PM	i dont have the book but i do believe it stacks actually i beleieve the point of the evolved undead os all of it stacked showing it got stronger and stronger as time goes on.
deathbane 09-12-07, 08:55 PM	i dont have the book but i do believe it stacks actually i beleieve the point of the evolved undead os all of it stacked showing it got stronger and stronger as time goes on. It is possible. I can't really argue for or against it, as this is a unique situation, and they did not even bother to give an example of how it works. I would allow since it raises the CR by one, and I don't think the AC bonus and the ability score increases justify it alone.
zook1shoe666 09-12-07, 10:13 PM	I think everything stacks including the AC bonusm except for the fast healing, because it is like SR in the fact that the highest number takes priority. I did not look up the fast healing fact, but if it were two different templates the higher one would take over, so I used that logic with the evolved undead. Deathbane is right... the AC, spell-like abilities, ability changes, CR and LA changes all stat. Fast Healing and quite a few other special abilities have the highest one be the one that applies under said circumstances. like SR 14 always overrides SR 13. DR is the same, whichever type allows the most reduction towards said attack. Fast Healing 3 + Fast Healing 3 = Fast Healing 3, not 6.
deathbane 09-12-07, 11:14 PM	Deathbane is right... the AC, spell-like abilities, ability changes, CR and LA changes all stat. Fast Healing and quite a few other special abilities have the highest one be the one that applies under said circumstances. like SR 14 always overrides SR 13. DR is the same, whichever type allows the most reduction towards said attack. Fast Healing 3 + Fast Healing 3 = Fast Healing 3, not 6. That is what I thought, but I could not find any examples to back my case, and I don't like to debate without a leg to stand on. I had forgotten about the SLA's when I made that statement. I still think it does not make sense to have a special circumstance template, and not give an example of how it workes. With that being the case I go back to my original decision, however it is your(the OP's) decision.
zook1shoe666 09-12-07, 11:46 PM	I still think it does not make sense to have a special circumstance template, and not give an example of how it workes. With that being the case I go back to my original decision, however it is your(the OP's) decision. technically all the templates require special circumstances... some more so than others and the Evolved Undead template is far from the most "special" of them. its easier to think of the Evolved Undead template kind of like the advancement of true dragons... they gain more power with age, due to different reasons though.
deathbane 09-13-07, 01:13 AM	technically all the templates require special circumstances... some more so than others and the Evolved Undead template is far from the most "special" of them. its easier to think of the Evolved Undead template kind of like the advancement of true dragons... they gain more power with age, due to different reasons though. I was speaking on the stacking issue that they introduced, but were not kind enough to give an example of. I know the fast healing is usually only done once, but this template is different, and due to the way it is worded it could be taken as either way. It wont affect me, but I just hope that if they do something like this in 4e they make it clear.
zook1shoe666 09-13-07, 09:14 AM	understandable.... good luck ;)