Does this home made race seem overpowered? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Does this home made race seem overpowered? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Daftmouse
03-02-07, 01:19 AM K it is gone cause it sucks and I would delete the thread too but I don't know how
Naderion
03-02-07, 03:55 AM With +4 to Int and wizard as favorite class, the -4 Str is no drawback at all. Also -4 on all strength-checks doesn't make any sense, since every check that incorporates the strength-modifier are strength-checks. It would be either -4 Str or -8 Str.

Make it +2 Int and -2 Str and you may have a good arcane-race.

The "cast all spells twice per day" thing is... b******t, you can't say it in any other way. Drop that completely.

Tripple damage from fire is devestating for wizards, even Burning Hands can totally kill them and they stand no chance against Fireballs and the like.
Perun
03-02-07, 04:00 AM Religion
None. Vedalken usually try to ignore the gods.

Male names: Pontifex

It's funny for a race that "ignores the gods" to have a sample name meaning "cleric" :D

In my opinion, it's not a good race. I find it both overpowered and unplayable.

Vedalken may cast all prepared spells twice per day

That's ridiculously powerful, if it means what I think it means (a vedalken can cast each prepared spell twice? So a vedalken wizard who has prepared magic missile can cast it two times?)

Vedalken take triple damage from fire and heat. Whilst Vedalken are warm and dry their land speed is reduced by half.

This is the "unplayable" bit. A vedalken wizard hit by a scorching ray at 3rd-caster level suffers the equivalent of 12d6 points of damage!

The half-speed rule is also rather harsh.

Vedalken can learn any language including secret ones if they spend enough time studying it and hear the language spoke for at least ten rounds by someone that already knows it.

Why? No other race has the ability to learn secret languages. What makes the vedalken an exception?

Also, they can learn druidic (for example) if they spent a minute listening to someone speak it?

+2 to Concentration and Knowledge

To all Knowledge checks? Paired with their +4 Int, that's a +4 bonus to all spells that are wizard's bread and butter.

-4 to Strength based checks

Paired with their -4 Str, that's -6 to all Str checks. For a race that's heavily dependent on water, having a -6 penalty to Swim somehow doesn't seem right (to say the least).

-4 Str +4 Int

Favored Class: Wizard

Really? Would've never guessed it :rolleyes:

In short, you gave this race tremendous benefits for wizards. But heaping harsh restrictions doesn't always balance things out, particuarly with LA 0 races with no racial HD. Vedalken are a perfect example of this. They make ultimate wizards, yet are incredibly fragile (at first level, a theoretical cantrip normally dealing 1d3 points of fire damage can kill a vedalken wizard (since it would deal 3d3 points of damage)). Paper tigers, I think is the term?

Regards.
Erato
03-02-07, 01:38 PM The race is basically unplayable.
They would switch between dominating an encounter (leaving the other PCs to feel useless), and dying from mundane things.

Great weaknesses do not offset great strengths; they merely make it harder for the DM to find appropriate challenges.
ZiggZagg
03-02-07, 01:47 PM Back to the drawing board. And what was the purpose of this race? It just sounds to me like you wanted to make your wizard character able to nova about 3 times a day at 2nd level. Proper criticism isn't even in place for this. This race belongs in a 3rd party source book from Mongoose or some other obscure printing company whose only idea is to make extremely broken or illogical additions to the game of D&D.
Kadasbrass
03-02-07, 02:50 PM there is no way you can balance a race with a +4 to a mental ability score so it can be balanced. Since all the penalties would just make the race more focused on only a small handful of classes since other classes wouldn't play the race to begin with.

I suggest using -2 con and -2 dex in place of -4 str tobegin with. This way someone picking the race for its int bonus still feels the drawbacks. But personally I recommend not giving any race a +4 bonus in general to avoid making the race suitable for only a single role. The race won't be balanced when its only playable for a single role.
Daftmouse
03-03-07, 12:12 AM Doppelgangers have a +4 to Wis and I do know that it has a LA but even so it isn't that high and it has +2 in all the others.
Kadasbrass
03-03-07, 01:40 AM The Doppelganger has LA and Racial Hitdice. If someone really wants to play one its out of flavor and to have fun. People like to in general avoid both since they reduce the effectiveness of class abilities since you gain them later then normal. The hitdice and LA will keep most people from playing the race for this reason so while it is balanced, its unbalanced since its not desirable as much and because its role will be limited to a skill-expert style character.
Perun
03-03-07, 01:42 AM Doppelgangers have a +4 to Wis and I do know that it has a LA but even so it isn't that high and it has +2 in all the others.

Doppelganger has 4 racial HD and a LA +4, meaning the earliest one could be played is with an 8th-level group (ECL = HD + LA) -- and that's a doppelganger with NO class levels.

His special abilities compared to those of regular (meaning LA +0) characters are nothing special (detect thoughts, change shape, immunity to sleep and charm effects). He's got 4d8 + Con hp, +4 BAB, Fort +1, and Refl and Will +4.

Compare that to an 8th-level human.

In short, racial HD and LA make doppelganger hard to play in any but the most specialised roles, and even then, most of the time, he's still slightly less effective than a LA +0 character built for the same purpose.

And even if the camapign uses LA buy-off rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) (from Unearthed Arcana and SRD), a doppelganger coul buy one point off his LA when he gets 12 class levels (his racial HD does not count, so we're looking at 16 HD).

Regards.
DarkRhystar
03-03-07, 01:50 AM Vedalken may cast all prepared spells twice per day.

Vedalken can learn any language including secret ones if they spend enough time studying it and hear the language spoke for at least ten rounds by someone that already knows it.

+2 to Concentration and Knowledge

-4 Str +4 Int

Favored Class: Wizard

Broken. Poorly designed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Daftmouse 03-02-07, 01:19 AM	K it is gone cause it sucks and I would delete the thread too but I don't know how
Naderion 03-02-07, 03:55 AM	With +4 to Int and wizard as favorite class, the -4 Str is no drawback at all. Also -4 on all strength-checks doesn't make any sense, since every check that incorporates the strength-modifier are strength-checks. It would be either -4 Str or -8 Str. Make it +2 Int and -2 Str and you may have a good arcane-race. The "cast all spells twice per day" thing is... b******t, you can't say it in any other way. Drop that completely. Tripple damage from fire is devestating for wizards, even Burning Hands can totally kill them and they stand no chance against Fireballs and the like.
Perun 03-02-07, 04:00 AM	Religion None. Vedalken usually try to ignore the gods. Male names: Pontifex It's funny for a race that "ignores the gods" to have a sample name meaning "cleric" :D In my opinion, it's not a good race. I find it both overpowered and unplayable. Vedalken may cast all prepared spells twice per day That's ridiculously powerful, if it means what I think it means (a vedalken can cast each prepared spell twice? So a vedalken wizard who has prepared magic missile can cast it two times?) Vedalken take triple damage from fire and heat. Whilst Vedalken are warm and dry their land speed is reduced by half. This is the "unplayable" bit. A vedalken wizard hit by a scorching ray at 3rd-caster level suffers the equivalent of 12d6 points of damage! The half-speed rule is also rather harsh. Vedalken can learn any language including secret ones if they spend enough time studying it and hear the language spoke for at least ten rounds by someone that already knows it. Why? No other race has the ability to learn secret languages. What makes the vedalken an exception? Also, they can learn druidic (for example) if they spent a minute listening to someone speak it? +2 to Concentration and Knowledge To all Knowledge checks? Paired with their +4 Int, that's a +4 bonus to all spells that are wizard's bread and butter. -4 to Strength based checks Paired with their -4 Str, that's -6 to all Str checks. For a race that's heavily dependent on water, having a -6 penalty to Swim somehow doesn't seem right (to say the least). -4 Str +4 Int Favored Class: Wizard Really? Would've never guessed it :rolleyes: In short, you gave this race tremendous benefits for wizards. But heaping harsh restrictions doesn't always balance things out, particuarly with LA 0 races with no racial HD. Vedalken are a perfect example of this. They make ultimate wizards, yet are incredibly fragile (at first level, a theoretical cantrip normally dealing 1d3 points of fire damage can kill a vedalken wizard (since it would deal 3d3 points of damage)). Paper tigers, I think is the term? Regards.
Erato 03-02-07, 01:38 PM	The race is basically unplayable. They would switch between dominating an encounter (leaving the other PCs to feel useless), and dying from mundane things. Great weaknesses do not offset great strengths; they merely make it harder for the DM to find appropriate challenges.
ZiggZagg 03-02-07, 01:47 PM	Back to the drawing board. And what was the purpose of this race? It just sounds to me like you wanted to make your wizard character able to nova about 3 times a day at 2nd level. Proper criticism isn't even in place for this. This race belongs in a 3rd party source book from Mongoose or some other obscure printing company whose only idea is to make extremely broken or illogical additions to the game of D&D.
Kadasbrass 03-02-07, 02:50 PM	there is no way you can balance a race with a +4 to a mental ability score so it can be balanced. Since all the penalties would just make the race more focused on only a small handful of classes since other classes wouldn't play the race to begin with. I suggest using -2 con and -2 dex in place of -4 str tobegin with. This way someone picking the race for its int bonus still feels the drawbacks. But personally I recommend not giving any race a +4 bonus in general to avoid making the race suitable for only a single role. The race won't be balanced when its only playable for a single role.
Daftmouse 03-03-07, 12:12 AM	Doppelgangers have a +4 to Wis and I do know that it has a LA but even so it isn't that high and it has +2 in all the others.
Kadasbrass 03-03-07, 01:40 AM	The Doppelganger has LA and Racial Hitdice. If someone really wants to play one its out of flavor and to have fun. People like to in general avoid both since they reduce the effectiveness of class abilities since you gain them later then normal. The hitdice and LA will keep most people from playing the race for this reason so while it is balanced, its unbalanced since its not desirable as much and because its role will be limited to a skill-expert style character.
Perun 03-03-07, 01:42 AM	Doppelgangers have a +4 to Wis and I do know that it has a LA but even so it isn't that high and it has +2 in all the others. Doppelganger has 4 racial HD and a LA +4, meaning the earliest one could be played is with an 8th-level group (ECL = HD + LA) -- and that's a doppelganger with NO class levels. His special abilities compared to those of regular (meaning LA +0) characters are nothing special (detect thoughts, change shape, immunity to sleep and charm effects). He's got 4d8 + Con hp, +4 BAB, Fort +1, and Refl and Will +4. Compare that to an 8th-level human. In short, racial HD and LA make doppelganger hard to play in any but the most specialised roles, and even then, most of the time, he's still slightly less effective than a LA +0 character built for the same purpose. And even if the camapign uses LA buy-off rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) (from Unearthed Arcana and SRD), a doppelganger coul buy one point off his LA when he gets 12 class levels (his racial HD does not count, so we're looking at 16 HD). Regards.
DarkRhystar 03-03-07, 01:50 AM	Vedalken may cast all prepared spells twice per day. Vedalken can learn any language including secret ones if they spend enough time studying it and hear the language spoke for at least ten rounds by someone that already knows it. +2 to Concentration and Knowledge -4 Str +4 Int Favored Class: Wizard Broken. Poorly designed.