Dragonborn Guide [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragonborn Guide [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
stimpydoda
03-20-07, 01:05 AM I have been scratching my head and searching for answers for awhile now and still can't find a guide on how building a dragonborn works. I can't figure out what you keep from your original race.

Lets use Gnome for example:
Would my ability score bonuses, after rebirth be, +4 Con, -2 Str, -2 Dex?
Do I keep my +1 DC to illusion spells?
What about my +4 to hide?
If a feat requires me to be a gnome, can I still qualify for the feat?

Please give me a guide to understand what I keep and take away and list your sources please. Thanks :)
enygmatic_me
03-20-07, 01:11 AM Lets use Gnome for example:
Would my ability score bonuses, after rebirth be, +4 Con, -2 Str, -2 Dex?

Yes.

Do I keep my +1 DC to illusion spells?

No.

What about my +4 to hide?

You lose that too.

If a feat requires me to be a gnome, can I still qualify for the feat?

Yes, you are still a gnome, you just gain the Dragonblood subtype.

Please give me a guide to understand what I keep and take away and list your sources please. Thanks :)

OK,

In Races of the Dragon look on pg 10: Mechanics of Rebirth. Unfortunately that is the most I can really tell you right now without violating CoC and copyright law. Look that section over carefully and then come back with any questions you may still have.
stimpydoda
03-20-07, 01:26 AM Wow. Leave it to me to get so excited about something that I skip over THE MOST IMPORTANT PAGE ABOUT IT! The COB are cruel, always making me think I'll get more from them than the book :( Thanks for the quick help:)
morbid_freak
03-20-07, 02:10 AM What about my +4 to hide?

Actually, because that bonus is from size, you would keep that. You remain the same size category after your ascention/ritual/metamorphisis/whatever.
enygmatic_me
03-20-07, 02:19 AM Actually, because that bonus is from size, you would keep that. You remain the same size category after your ascention/ritual/metamorphisis/whatever.

Correct, that is my mistake. Good catch.
CrashtheStyx
03-23-07, 06:54 PM What about if you, as a human take an exotic weapon prof feat, the with your first or third level feat take WF with that weapon, then go Dragonborn. Do you loose the human gained feat? I know you loose the extra human skill points, but the feat thingy is confusing.

From what I read it would seem like because the WF feat depended on the prof feat, you would keep both. But wouldn't that seem like a fairly obvious loophole?
WarDragon
03-23-07, 07:07 PM You'd lose the Weapon Focus, or another feat that didn't require the proficiency. It says you can pick any feat to lose, but can't lose one that qualifies you for another feat you have.
CrashtheStyx
03-23-07, 07:17 PM Ah ok, thanks!
kinevon
08-22-07, 08:56 AM A quick (I hope) question on Dragonborn and dragonblood feats:

When it says a Dragonborn can have only one of the dragonblood feats, it is saying only one (and only referring to first-level-only dragonblood feats?) at the time you become Dragonborn, or forever after?

Supposing you took Draconic Aspect: Mind or Heart, but took the Dragon Wings feat. Could you later take the Improved Dragon Wings feat?

Thanks for your assistance in this matter!
Uxkurik_Malsvar
08-28-07, 05:02 PM A quick (I hope) question on Dragonborn and dragonblood feats:

When it says a Dragonborn can have only one of the dragonblood feats, it is saying only one (and only referring to first-level-only dragonblood feats?) at the time you become Dragonborn, or forever after?

Supposing you took Draconic Aspect: Mind or Heart, but took the Dragon Wings feat. Could you later take the Improved Dragon Wings feat?

Thanks for your assistance in this matter!

a good question but i think it means you can only take the 1 feat when you change with the feat type "dragonblood". i would like to know if since you now have the dragon subtype can you take monstrous feats.
kinevon
08-28-07, 05:52 PM a good question but i think it means you can only take the 1 feat when you change with the feat type "dragonblood". i would like to know if since you now have the dragon subtype can you take monstrous feats.

That's what I thought, and how the characters posted seem to be set up.

As to monstrous feats, I would think a Dragonborn would qualify for any that allow dragonblood to take them, but not any that require you to be something like, say, monstrous humanoid, since I think those are different sub-types. :dragon:
Istaran
08-28-07, 07:46 PM I don't think you can take monstrous feats, since you are still type humanoid. Specifically Humanoid(dragonblood). You are not type Dragon.
When it says a Dragonborn can have only one of the dragonblood feats, it is saying only one (and only referring to first-level-only dragonblood feats?) at the time you become Dragonborn, or forever after?
I think it just gives access to one (and only one) 1st level only feat that requires dragonblood subtype (as you would otherwise have no way to get them). Similar idea to the bonus feat at the end of Renegade Mastermaker where you suddenly count as a warforged and so you get one (and only one) warforged only/1st level only feat even though you are level 15+.
Uxkurik_Malsvar
08-28-07, 11:54 PM well it says dragon subtype a half dragon would be able to take them... if a dragon born counts as a dragon and a human for effects would it not count for monstrus feats in the dracinomicon?
Aramas
09-05-07, 08:34 PM well it says dragon subtype a half dragon would be able to take them... if a dragon born counts as a dragon and a human for effects would it not count for monstrus feats in the dracinomicon?

A dragonborn has the Humanoid (human, dragonblooded) type not the Dragon type.

A Half-dragon however has the Dragon type.

Most of the feats in Draconomicon require you do have the Dragon type and therefore a dragonborn would not qualify.
Aramas
09-05-07, 08:35 PM I have a question...
Does one lose darkvision or low-light vision when one becomes a dragonborn?
Neutronium_Dragon
09-06-07, 12:21 AM Yes, though one of the dragonborn options will allow you to regain it.
Tedronai
09-06-07, 02:27 AM *sigh*
the dragonblood subtype allows you to qualify for feats, classes, and the use of items as if you were a dragon

If you qualify for all the prerequisites of a monstrous feat, you can take it. Many such feats in the Draconomicon list the Dragon type as one of those prerequisites. The Dragonblood subtype fills that requirement. If you meet the other prerequisites, you can take that feat.
(personally, I suggest Improved Speed for a +10 to your land speed, +20 to your fly speed, and +10 to all others you may have or gain, all you need is Str 13 - difficult for that gnome, but not impossible)
BenT1_0
09-06-07, 10:06 PM Here is the reply from wizards help about dragonborn characters.

The Dragonborn dwarf in the examples at the back of Races of the
Dragon is COMPLETELY incorrect. Not even on the same planet.

But the explanation of the Poison Dusk Lizard Folk is an
eye opener. You pretty much lose everything.

Subject
Confused about applying the Dragonborn racial traits

Discussion Thread
Response (Support Agent) 09/06/2007 04:10 PM
ben,

Thank you for writing. All of the racial abilities listed as "stay or go" are all removed after undergoing the rebirth ritual. You may petition your Dungeon Master to allow the retention of some of these, but that will between the two of you.

Please let me know if you need anymore help!

Good Gaming!

Rob
Customer Service Representative
Wizards of the Coast
1-800-324-6496 (US and Canada)
425-204-8069 (From all other countries)
Monday-Friday 9am-6pm PST / 12pm-9pm EST
Customer (ben texley) 09/06/2007 10:03 AM

On page 10, the Mechanics of Rebirth sidebar states "Other Racial Traits: You lose all other racial traits of your original race, including bonus feats, skill bonuses, attack bonuses, save bonuses, spell like abilities, and so forth."

Yet on page 134, your example 6L dwarf dragonborn fighter, still seems to have most of hers.

I.E. Darkvision 60', though this could be explained by her having taken the Draconic Aspect:Mind, yet she lists no immunities that would go along with that Aspect.
Under AC still has +4 vs. Giants.
Under resist, still has +2 vs spells & spell like, and stability.
Under attack options still has +1 racial attack bonus.
Under special qualities, still has Stonecunning.

Character does not list a Glide Speed or Breath Weapon (as in first example on same page) to I would assume it does have the Mind Aspect.

Assuming that this example character is completely incorrect, (and please correct me if my assumption here is wrong) I would like to know what racial abilities a Poison Dusk Lizard Folk would lose by taking the Dragonblood race, preferably with the reason why or why not each is changed.

Poison Dusk Lizard Folk, Monster Manual 3 page 96-97

+2 Dex, +Con, -2 Cha (Stays, according to MoR Sidebar)

Small Size (Stays, according to MoR Sidebar)

Land Speed 30' (Stays, according to MoR Sidebar)

Racial Skills: +4 Balance, Jump, and Swim due to having a tail (Stay or go?)

Poison Use (Stay or go?)

Chameleon Skin: +5 hide bonus (Stay or go?)

+3 natural Armor (Stay or go?)

Natural Weapons: 2 claw 1 bite (Stay or go?)

SQ (see above): Chameleon, hold breath, low-light vision (Stay or go?)

Weapon Familiarity: bolas and nets martial (Stay or go?)

Favored Class: Ranger (Stays, according to MoR Sidebar)

Level Adjustment: +1 (Stays, according to MoR Sidebar)

Your clarifications are appreciated.

Ben Texley

********************
Page Number: 8-10 and 134
Book Name: Races of the Dragon

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
stimpydoda 03-20-07, 01:05 AM	I have been scratching my head and searching for answers for awhile now and still can't find a guide on how building a dragonborn works. I can't figure out what you keep from your original race. Lets use Gnome for example: Would my ability score bonuses, after rebirth be, +4 Con, -2 Str, -2 Dex? Do I keep my +1 DC to illusion spells? What about my +4 to hide? If a feat requires me to be a gnome, can I still qualify for the feat? Please give me a guide to understand what I keep and take away and list your sources please. Thanks :)
enygmatic_me 03-20-07, 01:11 AM	Lets use Gnome for example: Would my ability score bonuses, after rebirth be, +4 Con, -2 Str, -2 Dex? Yes. Do I keep my +1 DC to illusion spells? No. What about my +4 to hide? You lose that too. If a feat requires me to be a gnome, can I still qualify for the feat? Yes, you are still a gnome, you just gain the Dragonblood subtype. Please give me a guide to understand what I keep and take away and list your sources please. Thanks :) OK, In Races of the Dragon look on pg 10: Mechanics of Rebirth. Unfortunately that is the most I can really tell you right now without violating CoC and copyright law. Look that section over carefully and then come back with any questions you may still have.
stimpydoda 03-20-07, 01:26 AM	Wow. Leave it to me to get so excited about something that I skip over THE MOST IMPORTANT PAGE ABOUT IT! The COB are cruel, always making me think I'll get more from them than the book :( Thanks for the quick help:)
morbid_freak 03-20-07, 02:10 AM	What about my +4 to hide? Actually, because that bonus is from size, you would keep that. You remain the same size category after your ascention/ritual/metamorphisis/whatever.
enygmatic_me 03-20-07, 02:19 AM	Actually, because that bonus is from size, you would keep that. You remain the same size category after your ascention/ritual/metamorphisis/whatever. Correct, that is my mistake. Good catch.
CrashtheStyx 03-23-07, 06:54 PM	What about if you, as a human take an exotic weapon prof feat, the with your first or third level feat take WF with that weapon, then go Dragonborn. Do you loose the human gained feat? I know you loose the extra human skill points, but the feat thingy is confusing. From what I read it would seem like because the WF feat depended on the prof feat, you would keep both. But wouldn't that seem like a fairly obvious loophole?
WarDragon 03-23-07, 07:07 PM	You'd lose the Weapon Focus, or another feat that didn't require the proficiency. It says you can pick any feat to lose, but can't lose one that qualifies you for another feat you have.
CrashtheStyx 03-23-07, 07:17 PM	Ah ok, thanks!
kinevon 08-22-07, 08:56 AM	A quick (I hope) question on Dragonborn and dragonblood feats: When it says a Dragonborn can have only one of the dragonblood feats, it is saying only one (and only referring to first-level-only dragonblood feats?) at the time you become Dragonborn, or forever after? Supposing you took Draconic Aspect: Mind or Heart, but took the Dragon Wings feat. Could you later take the Improved Dragon Wings feat? Thanks for your assistance in this matter!
Uxkurik_Malsvar 08-28-07, 05:02 PM	A quick (I hope) question on Dragonborn and dragonblood feats: When it says a Dragonborn can have only one of the dragonblood feats, it is saying only one (and only referring to first-level-only dragonblood feats?) at the time you become Dragonborn, or forever after? Supposing you took Draconic Aspect: Mind or Heart, but took the Dragon Wings feat. Could you later take the Improved Dragon Wings feat? Thanks for your assistance in this matter! a good question but i think it means you can only take the 1 feat when you change with the feat type "dragonblood". i would like to know if since you now have the dragon subtype can you take monstrous feats.
kinevon 08-28-07, 05:52 PM	a good question but i think it means you can only take the 1 feat when you change with the feat type "dragonblood". i would like to know if since you now have the dragon subtype can you take monstrous feats. That's what I thought, and how the characters posted seem to be set up. As to monstrous feats, I would think a Dragonborn would qualify for any that allow dragonblood to take them, but not any that require you to be something like, say, monstrous humanoid, since I think those are different sub-types. :dragon:
Istaran 08-28-07, 07:46 PM	I don't think you can take monstrous feats, since you are still type humanoid. Specifically Humanoid(dragonblood). You are not type Dragon. When it says a Dragonborn can have only one of the dragonblood feats, it is saying only one (and only referring to first-level-only dragonblood feats?) at the time you become Dragonborn, or forever after? I think it just gives access to one (and only one) 1st level only feat that requires dragonblood subtype (as you would otherwise have no way to get them). Similar idea to the bonus feat at the end of Renegade Mastermaker where you suddenly count as a warforged and so you get one (and only one) warforged only/1st level only feat even though you are level 15+.
Uxkurik_Malsvar 08-28-07, 11:54 PM	well it says dragon subtype a half dragon would be able to take them... if a dragon born counts as a dragon and a human for effects would it not count for monstrus feats in the dracinomicon?
Aramas 09-05-07, 08:34 PM	well it says dragon subtype a half dragon would be able to take them... if a dragon born counts as a dragon and a human for effects would it not count for monstrus feats in the dracinomicon? A dragonborn has the Humanoid (human, dragonblooded) type not the Dragon type. A Half-dragon however has the Dragon type. Most of the feats in Draconomicon require you do have the Dragon type and therefore a dragonborn would not qualify.
Aramas 09-05-07, 08:35 PM	I have a question... Does one lose darkvision or low-light vision when one becomes a dragonborn?
Neutronium_Dragon 09-06-07, 12:21 AM	Yes, though one of the dragonborn options will allow you to regain it.
Tedronai 09-06-07, 02:27 AM	sigh the dragonblood subtype allows you to qualify for feats, classes, and the use of items as if you were a dragon If you qualify for all the prerequisites of a monstrous feat, you can take it. Many such feats in the Draconomicon list the Dragon type as one of those prerequisites. The Dragonblood subtype fills that requirement. If you meet the other prerequisites, you can take that feat. (personally, I suggest Improved Speed for a +10 to your land speed, +20 to your fly speed, and +10 to all others you may have or gain, all you need is Str 13 - difficult for that gnome, but not impossible)
BenT1_0 09-06-07, 10:06 PM	Here is the reply from wizards help about dragonborn characters. The Dragonborn dwarf in the examples at the back of Races of the Dragon is COMPLETELY incorrect. Not even on the same planet. But the explanation of the Poison Dusk Lizard Folk is an eye opener. You pretty much lose everything. Subject Confused about applying the Dragonborn racial traits Discussion Thread Response (Support Agent) 09/06/2007 04:10 PM ben, Thank you for writing. All of the racial abilities listed as "stay or go" are all removed after undergoing the rebirth ritual. You may petition your Dungeon Master to allow the retention of some of these, but that will between the two of you. Please let me know if you need anymore help! Good Gaming! Rob Customer Service Representative Wizards of the Coast 1-800-324-6496 (US and Canada) 425-204-8069 (From all other countries) Monday-Friday 9am-6pm PST / 12pm-9pm EST Customer (ben texley) 09/06/2007 10:03 AM On page 10, the Mechanics of Rebirth sidebar states "Other Racial Traits: You lose all other racial traits of your original race, including bonus feats, skill bonuses, attack bonuses, save bonuses, spell like abilities, and so forth." Yet on page 134, your example 6L dwarf dragonborn fighter, still seems to have most of hers. I.E. Darkvision 60', though this could be explained by her having taken the Draconic Aspect:Mind, yet she lists no immunities that would go along with that Aspect. Under AC still has +4 vs. Giants. Under resist, still has +2 vs spells & spell like, and stability. Under attack options still has +1 racial attack bonus. Under special qualities, still has Stonecunning. Character does not list a Glide Speed or Breath Weapon (as in first example on same page) to I would assume it does have the Mind Aspect. Assuming that this example character is completely incorrect, (and please correct me if my assumption here is wrong) I would like to know what racial abilities a Poison Dusk Lizard Folk would lose by taking the Dragonblood race, preferably with the reason why or why not each is changed. Poison Dusk Lizard Folk, Monster Manual 3 page 96-97 +2 Dex, +Con, -2 Cha (Stays, according to MoR Sidebar) Small Size (Stays, according to MoR Sidebar) Land Speed 30' (Stays, according to MoR Sidebar) Racial Skills: +4 Balance, Jump, and Swim due to having a tail (Stay or go?) Poison Use (Stay or go?) Chameleon Skin: +5 hide bonus (Stay or go?) +3 natural Armor (Stay or go?) Natural Weapons: 2 claw 1 bite (Stay or go?) SQ (see above): Chameleon, hold breath, low-light vision (Stay or go?) Weapon Familiarity: bolas and nets martial (Stay or go?) Favored Class: Ranger (Stays, according to MoR Sidebar) Level Adjustment: +1 (Stays, according to MoR Sidebar) Your clarifications are appreciated. Ben Texley ******************** Page Number: 8-10 and 134 Book Name: Races of the Dragon