Dragonborn human; lose a feat or not? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragonborn human; lose a feat or not? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
johniemi
03-06-07, 02:24 PM Races of the Dragon p.10, The Mechanics of Rebirth:

"You lose all other racial traits... including bonus feats..."

"If your original granted you a nonspecific bonus feat (...human...), any feat can be lost, so long as it is not a prerequisite for another feat you have"

Now, I am pretty sure that you should lose the 1st level human bonus feat, but what if the 1st level feat is a prerequisite (like Power attack -> Cleave)? Do I get to keep the feat because it's a prerequisite for Cleave? And/or do I then lose cleave as it's not a prerequisite for anything?

As you can probably see, I'm trying desperately NOT to lose the feat as I'm already losing the human skill point bonus :)

-John
drunkendrake
03-06-07, 02:30 PM If you have Power Attack and Cleave and became Dragonborn, you'd have to lose Cleave. If you didn't have Cleave, you'd lose Power Attack instead.
The only way I can possibly think of to get around it is to take Open Minded (CAdv) and put 5 skill ranks in something, which (possibly) you might not lose. Maybe.

-Drake-
enygmatic_me
03-06-07, 03:06 PM The answer is in your post. You, as a Human Dragonborn, must lose any one feat that you have that is not a prerequisite to another feat. So, if all you have is Power Attack and Cleave, you have to lose Cleave. A little sucky, but the Dragonborn benefits are nice.

I am assuming you have probably already made the character in question, but if not, and you DM allows Warforged, Warforged Dragonborns are a great combo.
johniemi
03-06-07, 03:37 PM Ok, I took cleave out :( Oh well, I got a nice breath weapon and a CON boost which helps my gish :)

So my char is now a Dragonborn Human Ftr4/Conjurer2/Abjurant Champion2/Spellsword1

Can someone tell me which dragons are chaotic good, as that's my character's alignment and I want to implement helping dragons of my alignment into my roleplaying.

Is Bahamuth the god of all dragons? If not, what is the chaotic good dragon god that my char should warship?

Thanks in advance!
Derren S.
03-06-07, 03:50 PM From the standard dragons coppers and brass dragons are chaotic good. The good of all dragons is Io who, in the simple version, is true neutral. In the more complex version he is all alignments at the same time. Bahamut is one of his offspring and honored by all good dragons to some degree (the lawful ones worship him more than the chaotic ones).

The only CG draconic good is Hlal (The Jester, Keeper of Secrets). But the demigodess Assternian (Messanger of Io) might also fit as she is CN in a playful way.
Daiko12
03-07-07, 01:51 PM All races lose something. The only things not lost are proficiencies, hit dice, favored classes, languages, base speed, types, subtypes, and race. Keep in mind this is a +0 Level Adjustment. The Dragonborn get nice abilities and can take any feat that requires the dragon type. It is a very fair trade-off.

Personally, I play my Dragonborn characters as elves to offset the -2 Dex from Dragonborn and the -2 Con from Elf. :)
paladin2019
03-07-07, 03:39 PM You answered this in your post. If your character was a human, ANY feat may be lost, assuming it was not a prerequisite for something else. As a ftr4, you had at least 6 feats to choose from. I believe your character has more than just Power Attack and Cleave.
The White Sorcerer
03-07-07, 05:42 PM "If your original granted you a nonspecific bonus feat (...human...), any feat can be lost, so long as it is not a prerequisite for another feat you have"

Now, I am pretty sure that you should lose the 1st level human bonus feat, but what if the 1st level feat is a prerequisite (like Power attack -> Cleave)? Do I get to keep the feat because it's a prerequisite for Cleave? And/or do I then lose cleave as it's not a prerequisite for anything?

Read the text again. ANY feat can be lost, not just the one you took as your human bonus feat.
morbid_freak
03-07-07, 06:04 PM Nezumi (Ratling, from Oriental Adventures)
As Dragonborn, their ability adjustments are -2 Dex, +4 Con, -2 Cha and they have a base movement speed of 40ft. And I usually take the breath weapon. At level 1, how is that not broken?
Ventilatory_Threshold
03-07-07, 06:37 PM Nezumi (Ratling, from Oriental Adventures)
As Dragonborn, their ability adjustments are -2 Dex, +4 Con, -2 Cha and they have a base movement speed of 40ft. And I usually take the breath weapon. At level 1, how is that not broken?
Not broken, solid.

EDIT: Warforged Dragonborn with the Adamantine Body feat. That, my friend, is broken.
enygmatic_me
03-07-07, 07:03 PM Nezumi (Ratling, from Oriental Adventures)
As Dragonborn, their ability adjustments are -2 Dex, +4 Con, -2 Cha and they have a base movement speed of 40ft. And I usually take the breath weapon. At level 1, how is that not broken?

2 extra HP and a 5' long 1d8 breath weapon is hardly game breaking at 1st level.
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0
03-07-07, 07:11 PM Is Bahamuth the god of all dragons? If not, what is the chaotic good dragon god that my char should warship?

Technically, all dragon born worship bahamut, seeing as he created them! It isn't required, but it is a sort of unspoken rule.
runestar
03-07-07, 09:00 PM Technically, all dragon born worship bahamut, seeing as he created them! It isn't required, but it is a sort of unspoken rule.
Hypothetically speaking, if they opted not to continue worshiping him for whatever reason later on, would they suffer any consequences? This is the sort of thing which can be roleplayed out.:)

With respect to the lost bonus feat, what feats could humans take that minimize this impact? For example, I know of a regional feat which gives you +300gp starting gold(among other benefits). If I lost this feat after taking on the dragonborn template, I would not have to pay back the money, right? Are there any other feats which grant benefits that are not lost when the feat is lost?:P
Richmud
03-07-07, 09:38 PM Hypothetically speaking, if they opted not to continue worshiping him for whatever reason later on, would they suffer any consequences? This is the sort of thing which can be roleplayed out.:)

You can stop worshiping Bahamut without consequence but you are still expected to do your part in the war between chromatic and metallic dragons

However if you become evil then Bahamut shows up and rips your scales off, as well as removing all your dragonborn abilities
Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer
03-07-07, 09:45 PM The key here is to take a feat such as able learner, grab cross-class skills for free, and become a Dragonborn later, and keep all the cross-class goodies without penalty.
runestar
03-07-07, 10:23 PM The key here is to take a feat such as able learner, grab cross-class skills for free, and become a Dragonborn later, and keep all the cross-class goodies without penalty.
If you plan on becoming a dragonborn at 1st lv, I doubt it will work, sadly, since you assign skill points before taking feats...:(

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
johniemi 03-06-07, 02:24 PM	Races of the Dragon p.10, The Mechanics of Rebirth: "You lose all other racial traits... including bonus feats..." "If your original granted you a nonspecific bonus feat (...human...), any feat can be lost, so long as it is not a prerequisite for another feat you have" Now, I am pretty sure that you should lose the 1st level human bonus feat, but what if the 1st level feat is a prerequisite (like Power attack -> Cleave)? Do I get to keep the feat because it's a prerequisite for Cleave? And/or do I then lose cleave as it's not a prerequisite for anything? As you can probably see, I'm trying desperately NOT to lose the feat as I'm already losing the human skill point bonus :) -John
drunkendrake 03-06-07, 02:30 PM	If you have Power Attack and Cleave and became Dragonborn, you'd have to lose Cleave. If you didn't have Cleave, you'd lose Power Attack instead. The only way I can possibly think of to get around it is to take Open Minded (CAdv) and put 5 skill ranks in something, which (possibly) you might not lose. Maybe. -Drake-
enygmatic_me 03-06-07, 03:06 PM	The answer is in your post. You, as a Human Dragonborn, must lose any one feat that you have that is not a prerequisite to another feat. So, if all you have is Power Attack and Cleave, you have to lose Cleave. A little sucky, but the Dragonborn benefits are nice. I am assuming you have probably already made the character in question, but if not, and you DM allows Warforged, Warforged Dragonborns are a great combo.
johniemi 03-06-07, 03:37 PM	Ok, I took cleave out :( Oh well, I got a nice breath weapon and a CON boost which helps my gish :) So my char is now a Dragonborn Human Ftr4/Conjurer2/Abjurant Champion2/Spellsword1 Can someone tell me which dragons are chaotic good, as that's my character's alignment and I want to implement helping dragons of my alignment into my roleplaying. Is Bahamuth the god of all dragons? If not, what is the chaotic good dragon god that my char should warship? Thanks in advance!
Derren S. 03-06-07, 03:50 PM	From the standard dragons coppers and brass dragons are chaotic good. The good of all dragons is Io who, in the simple version, is true neutral. In the more complex version he is all alignments at the same time. Bahamut is one of his offspring and honored by all good dragons to some degree (the lawful ones worship him more than the chaotic ones). The only CG draconic good is Hlal (The Jester, Keeper of Secrets). But the demigodess Assternian (Messanger of Io) might also fit as she is CN in a playful way.
Daiko12 03-07-07, 01:51 PM	All races lose something. The only things not lost are proficiencies, hit dice, favored classes, languages, base speed, types, subtypes, and race. Keep in mind this is a +0 Level Adjustment. The Dragonborn get nice abilities and can take any feat that requires the dragon type. It is a very fair trade-off. Personally, I play my Dragonborn characters as elves to offset the -2 Dex from Dragonborn and the -2 Con from Elf. :)
paladin2019 03-07-07, 03:39 PM	You answered this in your post. If your character was a human, ANY feat may be lost, assuming it was not a prerequisite for something else. As a ftr4, you had at least 6 feats to choose from. I believe your character has more than just Power Attack and Cleave.
The White Sorcerer 03-07-07, 05:42 PM	"If your original granted you a nonspecific bonus feat (...human...), any feat can be lost, so long as it is not a prerequisite for another feat you have" Now, I am pretty sure that you should lose the 1st level human bonus feat, but what if the 1st level feat is a prerequisite (like Power attack -> Cleave)? Do I get to keep the feat because it's a prerequisite for Cleave? And/or do I then lose cleave as it's not a prerequisite for anything? Read the text again. ANY feat can be lost, not just the one you took as your human bonus feat.
morbid_freak 03-07-07, 06:04 PM	Nezumi (Ratling, from Oriental Adventures) As Dragonborn, their ability adjustments are -2 Dex, +4 Con, -2 Cha and they have a base movement speed of 40ft. And I usually take the breath weapon. At level 1, how is that not broken?
Ventilatory_Threshold 03-07-07, 06:37 PM	Nezumi (Ratling, from Oriental Adventures) As Dragonborn, their ability adjustments are -2 Dex, +4 Con, -2 Cha and they have a base movement speed of 40ft. And I usually take the breath weapon. At level 1, how is that not broken? Not broken, solid. EDIT: Warforged Dragonborn with the Adamantine Body feat. That, my friend, is broken.
enygmatic_me 03-07-07, 07:03 PM	Nezumi (Ratling, from Oriental Adventures) As Dragonborn, their ability adjustments are -2 Dex, +4 Con, -2 Cha and they have a base movement speed of 40ft. And I usually take the breath weapon. At level 1, how is that not broken? 2 extra HP and a 5' long 1d8 breath weapon is hardly game breaking at 1st level.
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0 03-07-07, 07:11 PM	Is Bahamuth the god of all dragons? If not, what is the chaotic good dragon god that my char should warship? Technically, all dragon born worship bahamut, seeing as he created them! It isn't required, but it is a sort of unspoken rule.
runestar 03-07-07, 09:00 PM	Technically, all dragon born worship bahamut, seeing as he created them! It isn't required, but it is a sort of unspoken rule. Hypothetically speaking, if they opted not to continue worshiping him for whatever reason later on, would they suffer any consequences? This is the sort of thing which can be roleplayed out.:) With respect to the lost bonus feat, what feats could humans take that minimize this impact? For example, I know of a regional feat which gives you +300gp starting gold(among other benefits). If I lost this feat after taking on the dragonborn template, I would not have to pay back the money, right? Are there any other feats which grant benefits that are not lost when the feat is lost?:P
Richmud 03-07-07, 09:38 PM	Hypothetically speaking, if they opted not to continue worshiping him for whatever reason later on, would they suffer any consequences? This is the sort of thing which can be roleplayed out.:) You can stop worshiping Bahamut without consequence but you are still expected to do your part in the war between chromatic and metallic dragons However if you become evil then Bahamut shows up and rips your scales off, as well as removing all your dragonborn abilities
Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer 03-07-07, 09:45 PM	The key here is to take a feat such as able learner, grab cross-class skills for free, and become a Dragonborn later, and keep all the cross-class goodies without penalty.
runestar 03-07-07, 10:23 PM	The key here is to take a feat such as able learner, grab cross-class skills for free, and become a Dragonborn later, and keep all the cross-class goodies without penalty. If you plan on becoming a dragonborn at 1st lv, I doubt it will work, sadly, since you assign skill points before taking feats...:(