Dragonish race that hits the spot? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragonish race that hits the spot? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
echoota
09-06-07, 02:24 AM Kobolds, Half-dragons, Dragonborns, Draconic Template, Dragonkin, Draconians, Spellscales, Dragon Decended... non of these are working for my wife, who after several months of not being unsatisfied with her Goliath Monk, wants to be something that is dragon-like but works for our current party and campaign.

She is really keen on the Dragonkin from the Draconomicon, however with an ECL of 9 in a campaign where the party are all 5th level characters, that won't work. Ideally if there was some way of trimming the Dragonkin down enough so that she had a lot dragon flavor, but not woefully behind the others PCs, then it should work. So far the system hasn't revealed anything to me.

Our current party is unusual and pushing a lot of limits to the system as is, with a pixie (using a modified savage species progression), Raptorian Druid, Hengeyokai (Sparrow form) Psion with Vow of Poverty, and a Human Fighter/Ranger with the Mineral Warrior Template out of Underdark (which is one of the few LA+1's I've seen that is worth the loss of a level). Her Goliath Monk often needs to be rescued in fights and is overall unimpressive.

I've been working with the Draconic Template from Races of the Dragon to try and tease out some combination within the rules that will keep the LA+1 of the template minimized, but she's shot everything down so far, save perhaps for the Half-Ogre. The problem is that it becomes a LA+3 creature, and so despite the great stats she's lost out on way too many hit points to be considered one of the party tanks. She'll again be a paper tiger and STILL not be able to fly.

In the end she really wants:
-Flight (not just glide)
-Natural Armor +5
-Darkvision
-Some innocuous "magical ability" such as the Dragonkin's Detect Magic at will, or at least several times a day.
-Stats that let her have a high Int, but still robust enough to be a tank that can wade into combat and win.

All of this needs to be wrapped up into LA+2 at best. She plans to play a Duskblade (PH2) or Warblade (Tome of Battle).

In light of the rest of the party, in which all of the other party members excel at what they are designed to do, she wants to be on par with them, with some flavorful abilities. Obviously, this isn't a campaign that is on the conservative end of balance, so pushing the limit is fine, but I'm just trying to nail down how far.
Templario
09-06-07, 07:33 AM In the end she really wants:
-Flight (not just glide)
-Natural Armor +5
-Darkvision
-Some innocuous "magical ability" such as the Dragonkin's Detect Magic at will, or at least several times a day.
-Stats that let her have a high Int, but still robust enough to be a tank that can wade into combat and win.

All of this needs to be wrapped up into LA+2 at best. She plans to play a Duskblade (PH2) or Warblade (Tome of Battle).

Sorry, but there is no way to have a LA +2 with this asking... Not in the books. Flight and Natural Armor +5 requests +1 LA EACH. Imagine decent abilities boosts as you require (ex: +4 STR, +4 or +2 CON and +4 INT) neat another LA and the special stuff altogether...

You know, the plain half-dragon is underpowered. You could simply gie them wings like the Dragon Wings feat from Races of the Dragon (30ft, average maneuverability, glide) and improve her flight as she got the other wing feats for free (fly on 6 hd by CON mod. rounds, fly on 12 HD freely), fly with medium then heavy load. :)

Ah, and she can always buy her LA by unearthed Arcana Buy-Off LA rules
Amaril
09-06-07, 08:29 AM Yeah, she's being a bit unrealistic with her demands. The feats in Races of the Dragon should help her achieve what she's after though. She has to be willing to compromise on some level.
Xiuhcoatl
09-06-07, 09:29 AM Half-Dragons without a breath weapon or immunities would be LA +2, according to Savage Species.

That'd be the closest to her demands, and they still lack a Fly speed.
DMs_Favourite
09-06-07, 09:31 AM Lizardfolk is 2HD with LA +1 for the +5 Natural Armour if there is a cheap template she may be able to get the other things she wants but even this has an Int penalty to start.
Orchomenos
09-06-07, 09:48 AM Let's go the other way, with something similar: an half-fey fighter/bard, hexblade, beguiler or wilder (if you're not against psionic).
For LA +2, you get +2 DEX, -2 CON, +2 WIS, +4 CHA, DR 5/Cold Iron (Instead of Natural Armor +5), Butterfly Wings, Low-Light Vision (or Darkvision if the base race has it, like dwarf), Immune to Enchantments, and some spell-like abilities, starting with Charm Person at will, Hypnotism, Faerie Fire/Glitterdust.
Get Weapon Finesse, and she can somewhat go in melee, as long as the opponent have no Cold Iron weapon. She would have to be a Charisma-based spellcaster.

Yeah, it's not exactly what she wanted, but it's so appealing in similar ways it might actually work...
DreamerInsane
09-06-07, 09:50 AM Dragonlance Campaign Setting, Dragonspawn Template.

+7 Nat armour, a sorcerer caster level, flight, natural weapons, stat boosts and other goodies (One of which is 30ft Darkvision). a White Dragonspawn is LA +1. A broken template if I ever saw one.
Blacks and greens are at LA +2, which is still very good.

If she goes the Dragonspawn route, I'd recommend advancing as a Battle Sorcerer, so her Dragonspawn casting stacks with his class casting.
Amaril
09-06-07, 09:52 AM As an aside, Dragon Magazine presented articles covering dragons as monster classes level 1-20. That's always an option.
Orchomenos
09-06-07, 09:55 AM Dragonlance Campaign Setting, Dragonspawn Template.

+7 Nat armour, a sorcerer caster level, flight, natural weapons, stat boosts and other goodies (One of which is 30ft Darkvision). a White Dragonspawn is LA +1. A broken template if I ever saw one.
Blacks and greens are at LA +2, which is still very good.

If she goes the Dragonspawn route, I'd recommend advancing as a Battle Sorcerer, so his Dragonspawn casting stacks with his class casting.
:eek:
Broken indeed...
echoota
09-06-07, 10:31 AM Dragonlance Campaign Setting, Dragonspawn Template.

That's the ticket! I think she'll be quite happy with that.

I knew if the system is squeezed hard enough something good would show itself.

But honestly, the rest of the party is so min-maxed that she'll finally be up to par with the rest of us with this template, and most important (for me) she'll be happy with her character. I don't have to hear any more griping!

Thanks!
DreamerInsane
09-06-07, 10:41 AM Well, yeah. A Sparrow Hengeyokai Psion is just asking for the world to implode. :P
But yeah, a white, black or green dragonspawn battle sorcerer should work well anough. White's the best, naturally.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
echoota 09-06-07, 02:24 AM	Kobolds, Half-dragons, Dragonborns, Draconic Template, Dragonkin, Draconians, Spellscales, Dragon Decended... non of these are working for my wife, who after several months of not being unsatisfied with her Goliath Monk, wants to be something that is dragon-like but works for our current party and campaign. She is really keen on the Dragonkin from the Draconomicon, however with an ECL of 9 in a campaign where the party are all 5th level characters, that won't work. Ideally if there was some way of trimming the Dragonkin down enough so that she had a lot dragon flavor, but not woefully behind the others PCs, then it should work. So far the system hasn't revealed anything to me. Our current party is unusual and pushing a lot of limits to the system as is, with a pixie (using a modified savage species progression), Raptorian Druid, Hengeyokai (Sparrow form) Psion with Vow of Poverty, and a Human Fighter/Ranger with the Mineral Warrior Template out of Underdark (which is one of the few LA+1's I've seen that is worth the loss of a level). Her Goliath Monk often needs to be rescued in fights and is overall unimpressive. I've been working with the Draconic Template from Races of the Dragon to try and tease out some combination within the rules that will keep the LA+1 of the template minimized, but she's shot everything down so far, save perhaps for the Half-Ogre. The problem is that it becomes a LA+3 creature, and so despite the great stats she's lost out on way too many hit points to be considered one of the party tanks. She'll again be a paper tiger and STILL not be able to fly. In the end she really wants: -Flight (not just glide) -Natural Armor +5 -Darkvision -Some innocuous "magical ability" such as the Dragonkin's Detect Magic at will, or at least several times a day. -Stats that let her have a high Int, but still robust enough to be a tank that can wade into combat and win. All of this needs to be wrapped up into LA+2 at best. She plans to play a Duskblade (PH2) or Warblade (Tome of Battle). In light of the rest of the party, in which all of the other party members excel at what they are designed to do, she wants to be on par with them, with some flavorful abilities. Obviously, this isn't a campaign that is on the conservative end of balance, so pushing the limit is fine, but I'm just trying to nail down how far.
Templario 09-06-07, 07:33 AM	In the end she really wants: -Flight (not just glide) -Natural Armor +5 -Darkvision -Some innocuous "magical ability" such as the Dragonkin's Detect Magic at will, or at least several times a day. -Stats that let her have a high Int, but still robust enough to be a tank that can wade into combat and win. All of this needs to be wrapped up into LA+2 at best. She plans to play a Duskblade (PH2) or Warblade (Tome of Battle). Sorry, but there is no way to have a LA +2 with this asking... Not in the books. Flight and Natural Armor +5 requests +1 LA EACH. Imagine decent abilities boosts as you require (ex: +4 STR, +4 or +2 CON and +4 INT) neat another LA and the special stuff altogether... You know, the plain half-dragon is underpowered. You could simply gie them wings like the Dragon Wings feat from Races of the Dragon (30ft, average maneuverability, glide) and improve her flight as she got the other wing feats for free (fly on 6 hd by CON mod. rounds, fly on 12 HD freely), fly with medium then heavy load. :) Ah, and she can always buy her LA by unearthed Arcana Buy-Off LA rules
Amaril 09-06-07, 08:29 AM	Yeah, she's being a bit unrealistic with her demands. The feats in Races of the Dragon should help her achieve what she's after though. She has to be willing to compromise on some level.
Xiuhcoatl 09-06-07, 09:29 AM	Half-Dragons without a breath weapon or immunities would be LA +2, according to Savage Species. That'd be the closest to her demands, and they still lack a Fly speed.
DMs_Favourite 09-06-07, 09:31 AM	Lizardfolk is 2HD with LA +1 for the +5 Natural Armour if there is a cheap template she may be able to get the other things she wants but even this has an Int penalty to start.
Orchomenos 09-06-07, 09:48 AM	Let's go the other way, with something similar: an half-fey fighter/bard, hexblade, beguiler or wilder (if you're not against psionic). For LA +2, you get +2 DEX, -2 CON, +2 WIS, +4 CHA, DR 5/Cold Iron (Instead of Natural Armor +5), Butterfly Wings, Low-Light Vision (or Darkvision if the base race has it, like dwarf), Immune to Enchantments, and some spell-like abilities, starting with Charm Person at will, Hypnotism, Faerie Fire/Glitterdust. Get Weapon Finesse, and she can somewhat go in melee, as long as the opponent have no Cold Iron weapon. She would have to be a Charisma-based spellcaster. Yeah, it's not exactly what she wanted, but it's so appealing in similar ways it might actually work...
DreamerInsane 09-06-07, 09:50 AM	Dragonlance Campaign Setting, Dragonspawn Template. +7 Nat armour, a sorcerer caster level, flight, natural weapons, stat boosts and other goodies (One of which is 30ft Darkvision). a White Dragonspawn is LA +1. A broken template if I ever saw one. Blacks and greens are at LA +2, which is still very good. If she goes the Dragonspawn route, I'd recommend advancing as a Battle Sorcerer, so her Dragonspawn casting stacks with his class casting.
Amaril 09-06-07, 09:52 AM	As an aside, Dragon Magazine presented articles covering dragons as monster classes level 1-20. That's always an option.
Orchomenos 09-06-07, 09:55 AM	Dragonlance Campaign Setting, Dragonspawn Template. +7 Nat armour, a sorcerer caster level, flight, natural weapons, stat boosts and other goodies (One of which is 30ft Darkvision). a White Dragonspawn is LA +1. A broken template if I ever saw one. Blacks and greens are at LA +2, which is still very good. If she goes the Dragonspawn route, I'd recommend advancing as a Battle Sorcerer, so his Dragonspawn casting stacks with his class casting. :eek: Broken indeed...
echoota 09-06-07, 10:31 AM	Dragonlance Campaign Setting, Dragonspawn Template. That's the ticket! I think she'll be quite happy with that. I knew if the system is squeezed hard enough something good would show itself. But honestly, the rest of the party is so min-maxed that she'll finally be up to par with the rest of us with this template, and most important (for me) she'll be happy with her character. I don't have to hear any more griping! Thanks!
DreamerInsane 09-06-07, 10:41 AM	Well, yeah. A Sparrow Hengeyokai Psion is just asking for the world to implode. :P But yeah, a white, black or green dragonspawn battle sorcerer should work well anough. White's the best, naturally.