Dragons and ECL [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragons and ECL [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kasumi_Chan
05-16-07, 11:07 PM Ok let's try this again in the right forum.. :embarrass

I have Savage Species, Monster Manual and Draconomicon. I'm trying to figure out the ECL for dragons over ECL 20 for an epic campaign. I'm using the basic SS rules but I can't seem to get the ECL to line up properly.
bobothechimp
05-16-07, 11:26 PM There are ECLs for them either in Races of Dragon or Draconomicon, I can't remember which.
runestar
05-17-07, 12:15 AM Roughly +1LA every 2 age categories.
There are some epic dragon ECLs in the table for epic leadership in the SRD. So you will have to do some interpolation of your own.:)
Kasumi_Chan
05-17-07, 12:30 AM Epic leadership! I hadn't thought about that chart. We are playing an epic (level 30) game soon and I want to play a dragon, but the ECL all stops around 20.
JLaurHughes
05-17-07, 12:47 AM The ECL is in the Draconomicon.
Kasumi_Chan
05-17-07, 01:03 AM Roughly +1LA every 2 age categories.
There are some epic dragon ECLs in the table for epic leadership in the SRD. So you will have to do some interpolation of your own.:)

Well that doesn't seem to work out so well. An ancient green is considered 28th level for epic leadership, but is has 33 HD.
runestar
05-17-07, 06:25 AM Check Here (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/EpicFeats.rtf)

An ancient green dragon has an ECL of 40. Since it has 32 dragon HD, this gives it a LA of +8. Working back, the closest pattern I could find is that its LA increases by +1 every 3 age categories instead (Whoops...:embarrass )

So wyrmling to young = LA+5
juvenile to adult = LA+6
mature adult to very old = LA+7
ancient to great wyrm = LA+8...and so on and so forth...
TheCarrionCrawler
05-17-07, 06:38 AM Ok let's try this again in the right forum.. :embarrass

I have Savage Species, Monster Manual and Draconomicon. I'm trying to figure out the ECL for dragons over ECL 20 for an epic campaign. I'm using the basic SS rules but I can't seem to get the ECL to line up properly.

Dragon magazine made 20 level monster classes for all the true dragons. The metalic ones first and then the chromatic in another issue. Though I don't have the issues in front of me, Paizo (http://www.paizo.com), should have the issues available. That way, it saves you a ton of work.

CC
Kasumi_Chan
05-18-07, 04:05 PM Check Here (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/EpicFeats.rtf)

An ancient green dragon has an ECL of 40. Since it has 32 dragon HD, this gives it a LA of +8. Working back, the closest pattern I could find is that its LA increases by +1 every 3 age categories instead (Whoops...:embarrass )

So wyrmling to young = LA+5
juvenile to adult = LA+6
mature adult to very old = LA+7
ancient to great wyrm = LA+8...and so on and so forth...

Ok that document has a different chart that seems a bit closer to what I was doing. I used Savage Species for the blue dragon and came up with:
Juvenile LA +7
Young Adult +11
Adult +15
Mature Adult +16
Old +18
Very Old +19
Ancient +23
Wyrm +25
Great Wyrm +26

I'm likely including things that shouldn't be... :confused:

Oh, what issue ## for Dragon is that?
Dead_Weasel
05-18-07, 04:41 PM Dragon #320, gives metallic dragons as 20-level classes, p36-45. p48 has a table of ECLs for the core true dragons... but only for the wyrmling-juvenile age categories.

Since only ECLs are provided, it is probably legal-ish for me to give the LAs:
W VY Y J
Black 3 3 3 4
Blue 4 4 5 5*
Brass 2 3 4 4
Bronze 4 4 6 7*
Copper 2 3 4 4
Gold 4 5 6 6*
Green 5 5 5 6
Red 4 5 6 6
Silver 4 4 5 6*
White 2 3 3 5
*I increased the LA from the previous category by one when the dragon's size category increased, but otherwise left it the same. Guesswork at best, since these were not in the article.
Kasumi_Chan
05-18-07, 05:28 PM Actually, I managed to chart out ECL/LA for the core dragons all the way to great wyrm once I figured the patterns. These may not be 100% if there are any jumps in LA that don't follow the pattern.
Dead_Weasel
05-18-07, 05:31 PM Really? I would like to see the results, as well as the major factors for the jumps. Assuming you are willing to post it - that would be a pretty big table to have to type out.
Kasumi_Chan
05-18-07, 05:34 PM Ok but I don't know how well it will look on here. The format is ECL / LA.

ECL/LA
Black Blue Green Red White Brass Bronze Copper Gold Silver
Wyrmling 7+3 10+4 10+5 11+4 5+2 6+2 10+4 7+2 12+4 11+4
V. Young 10+3 13+4 13+5 15+5 9+3 10+3 13+4 11+3 16+5 14+4
Young 13+3 17+5 16+5 19+6 14+5 14+4 18+6 15+4 20+6 18+5
Juvenile 17+4 20+5 20+6 23+7 17+5 17+4 21+6 18+4 24+7 21+5
Y. Adult 20+4 24+6 23+6 27+8 21+6 21+5 25+7 22+5 28+8 25+6
Adult 23+4 27+6 26+6 31+9 24+6 24+5 28+7 25+5 32+9 28+6
M. Adult 27+5 31+7 30+7 35+10 28+7 28+6 32+8 29+6 36+10 32+7
Old 30+5 34+7 33+7 39+11 31+7 31+6 35+8 32+6 40+11 35+7
V. Old 33+5 38+8 36+7 43+12 35+8 35+7 39+9 36+7 44+12 39+8
Ancient 37+6 41+8 40+8 47+13 38+8 38+7 42+9 39+7 48+13 42+8
Wyrm 40+6 45+9 43+8 51+14 41+9 42+8 46+10 43+8 52+14 46+9
G. Wyrm 43+6 48+9 46+8 54+15 44+9 45+8 49+10 46+8 55+15 49+9

I can't swear to the accuracy, since the white dragon caps higher than black... Then again I might be using government math...

The blue dragon may be off, since it seems Juvenile is ECL 20 and thus should have been on the basic charts. The white dragon seems to ignore the pattern at Wyrm based on the "official" numbers.
Dead_Weasel
05-18-07, 05:51 PM Oh god, my eyes!
Seriously though, thank you.
Black Blue Green Red White Brass Bronze Copper Gold Silver
Wyrmling 7+3 10+4 10+5 11+4 5+2 6+2 10+4 7+2 12+4 11+4
V. Young 10+3 13+4 13+5 15+5 9+3 10+3 13+4 11+3 16+5 14+4
Young 13+3 17+5 16+5 19+6 14+5 14+4 18+6 15+4 20+6 18+5
Juvenile 17+4 20+5 20+6 23+7 17+5 17+4 21+6 18+4 24+7 21+5
Y. Adult 20+4 24+6 23+6 27+8 21+6 21+5 25+7 22+5 28+8 25+6
Adult 23+4 27+6 26+6 31+9 24+6 24+5 28+7 25+5 32+9 28+6
M. Adult 27+5 31+7 30+7 35+10 28+7 28+6 32+8 29+6 36+10 32+7
Old 30+5 34+7 33+7 39+11 31+7 31+6 35+8 32+6 40+11 35+7
V. Old 33+5 38+8 36+7 43+12 35+8 35+7 39+9 36+7 44+12 39+8
Ancient 37+6 41+8 40+8 47+13 38+8 38+7 42+9 39+7 48+13 42+8
Wyrm 40+6 45+9 43+8 51+14 41+9 42+8 46+10 43+8 52+14 46+9
G. Wyrm 43+6 48+9 46+8 54+15 44+9 45+8 49+10 46+8 55+15 49+9
Make your table in notepad, or a similar program (alternately, you can use the "Preview Post" button, but that gets tedious fast).
Paste it into the post box, and wrap codetags around it:this is whatever you want to put into the table
Post it.
There are lots of other things you can do once you understand vB code (http://boards1.wizards.com/misc.php?do=bbcode), which lets you do fancy stuff.
Kasumi_Chan
05-18-07, 07:46 PM Thanks! I didn't know how to do that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kasumi_Chan 05-16-07, 11:07 PM	Ok let's try this again in the right forum.. :embarrass I have Savage Species, Monster Manual and Draconomicon. I'm trying to figure out the ECL for dragons over ECL 20 for an epic campaign. I'm using the basic SS rules but I can't seem to get the ECL to line up properly.
bobothechimp 05-16-07, 11:26 PM	There are ECLs for them either in Races of Dragon or Draconomicon, I can't remember which.
runestar 05-17-07, 12:15 AM	Roughly +1LA every 2 age categories. There are some epic dragon ECLs in the table for epic leadership in the SRD. So you will have to do some interpolation of your own.:)
Kasumi_Chan 05-17-07, 12:30 AM	Epic leadership! I hadn't thought about that chart. We are playing an epic (level 30) game soon and I want to play a dragon, but the ECL all stops around 20.
JLaurHughes 05-17-07, 12:47 AM	The ECL is in the Draconomicon.
Kasumi_Chan 05-17-07, 01:03 AM	Roughly +1LA every 2 age categories. There are some epic dragon ECLs in the table for epic leadership in the SRD. So you will have to do some interpolation of your own.:) Well that doesn't seem to work out so well. An ancient green is considered 28th level for epic leadership, but is has 33 HD.
runestar 05-17-07, 06:25 AM	Check Here (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/EpicFeats.rtf) An ancient green dragon has an ECL of 40. Since it has 32 dragon HD, this gives it a LA of +8. Working back, the closest pattern I could find is that its LA increases by +1 every 3 age categories instead (Whoops...:embarrass ) So wyrmling to young = LA+5 juvenile to adult = LA+6 mature adult to very old = LA+7 ancient to great wyrm = LA+8...and so on and so forth...
TheCarrionCrawler 05-17-07, 06:38 AM	Ok let's try this again in the right forum.. :embarrass I have Savage Species, Monster Manual and Draconomicon. I'm trying to figure out the ECL for dragons over ECL 20 for an epic campaign. I'm using the basic SS rules but I can't seem to get the ECL to line up properly. Dragon magazine made 20 level monster classes for all the true dragons. The metalic ones first and then the chromatic in another issue. Though I don't have the issues in front of me, Paizo (http://www.paizo.com), should have the issues available. That way, it saves you a ton of work. CC
Kasumi_Chan 05-18-07, 04:05 PM	Check Here (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/EpicFeats.rtf) An ancient green dragon has an ECL of 40. Since it has 32 dragon HD, this gives it a LA of +8. Working back, the closest pattern I could find is that its LA increases by +1 every 3 age categories instead (Whoops...:embarrass ) So wyrmling to young = LA+5 juvenile to adult = LA+6 mature adult to very old = LA+7 ancient to great wyrm = LA+8...and so on and so forth... Ok that document has a different chart that seems a bit closer to what I was doing. I used Savage Species for the blue dragon and came up with: Juvenile LA +7 Young Adult +11 Adult +15 Mature Adult +16 Old +18 Very Old +19 Ancient +23 Wyrm +25 Great Wyrm +26 I'm likely including things that shouldn't be... :confused: Oh, what issue ## for Dragon is that?
Dead_Weasel 05-18-07, 04:41 PM	Dragon #320, gives metallic dragons as 20-level classes, p36-45. p48 has a table of ECLs for the core true dragons... but only for the wyrmling-juvenile age categories. Since only ECLs are provided, it is probably legal-ish for me to give the LAs: W VY Y J Black 3 3 3 4 Blue 4 4 5 5* Brass 2 3 4 4 Bronze 4 4 6 7* Copper 2 3 4 4 Gold 4 5 6 6* Green 5 5 5 6 Red 4 5 6 6 Silver 4 4 5 6* White 2 3 3 5 *I increased the LA from the previous category by one when the dragon's size category increased, but otherwise left it the same. Guesswork at best, since these were not in the article.
Kasumi_Chan 05-18-07, 05:28 PM	Actually, I managed to chart out ECL/LA for the core dragons all the way to great wyrm once I figured the patterns. These may not be 100% if there are any jumps in LA that don't follow the pattern.
Dead_Weasel 05-18-07, 05:31 PM	Really? I would like to see the results, as well as the major factors for the jumps. Assuming you are willing to post it - that would be a pretty big table to have to type out.
Kasumi_Chan 05-18-07, 05:34 PM	Ok but I don't know how well it will look on here. The format is ECL / LA. ECL/LA Black Blue Green Red White Brass Bronze Copper Gold Silver Wyrmling 7+3 10+4 10+5 11+4 5+2 6+2 10+4 7+2 12+4 11+4 V. Young 10+3 13+4 13+5 15+5 9+3 10+3 13+4 11+3 16+5 14+4 Young 13+3 17+5 16+5 19+6 14+5 14+4 18+6 15+4 20+6 18+5 Juvenile 17+4 20+5 20+6 23+7 17+5 17+4 21+6 18+4 24+7 21+5 Y. Adult 20+4 24+6 23+6 27+8 21+6 21+5 25+7 22+5 28+8 25+6 Adult 23+4 27+6 26+6 31+9 24+6 24+5 28+7 25+5 32+9 28+6 M. Adult 27+5 31+7 30+7 35+10 28+7 28+6 32+8 29+6 36+10 32+7 Old 30+5 34+7 33+7 39+11 31+7 31+6 35+8 32+6 40+11 35+7 V. Old 33+5 38+8 36+7 43+12 35+8 35+7 39+9 36+7 44+12 39+8 Ancient 37+6 41+8 40+8 47+13 38+8 38+7 42+9 39+7 48+13 42+8 Wyrm 40+6 45+9 43+8 51+14 41+9 42+8 46+10 43+8 52+14 46+9 G. Wyrm 43+6 48+9 46+8 54+15 44+9 45+8 49+10 46+8 55+15 49+9 I can't swear to the accuracy, since the white dragon caps higher than black... Then again I might be using government math... The blue dragon may be off, since it seems Juvenile is ECL 20 and thus should have been on the basic charts. The white dragon seems to ignore the pattern at Wyrm based on the "official" numbers.
Dead_Weasel 05-18-07, 05:51 PM	Oh god, my eyes! Seriously though, thank you. Black Blue Green Red White Brass Bronze Copper Gold Silver Wyrmling 7+3 10+4 10+5 11+4 5+2 6+2 10+4 7+2 12+4 11+4 V. Young 10+3 13+4 13+5 15+5 9+3 10+3 13+4 11+3 16+5 14+4 Young 13+3 17+5 16+5 19+6 14+5 14+4 18+6 15+4 20+6 18+5 Juvenile 17+4 20+5 20+6 23+7 17+5 17+4 21+6 18+4 24+7 21+5 Y. Adult 20+4 24+6 23+6 27+8 21+6 21+5 25+7 22+5 28+8 25+6 Adult 23+4 27+6 26+6 31+9 24+6 24+5 28+7 25+5 32+9 28+6 M. Adult 27+5 31+7 30+7 35+10 28+7 28+6 32+8 29+6 36+10 32+7 Old 30+5 34+7 33+7 39+11 31+7 31+6 35+8 32+6 40+11 35+7 V. Old 33+5 38+8 36+7 43+12 35+8 35+7 39+9 36+7 44+12 39+8 Ancient 37+6 41+8 40+8 47+13 38+8 38+7 42+9 39+7 48+13 42+8 Wyrm 40+6 45+9 43+8 51+14 41+9 42+8 46+10 43+8 52+14 46+9 G. Wyrm 43+6 48+9 46+8 54+15 44+9 45+8 49+10 46+8 55+15 49+9 Make your table in notepad, or a similar program (alternately, you can use the "Preview Post" button, but that gets tedious fast). Paste it into the post box, and wrap codetags around it:this is whatever you want to put into the table Post it. There are lots of other things you can do once you understand vB code (http://boards1.wizards.com/misc.php?do=bbcode), which lets you do fancy stuff.
Kasumi_Chan 05-18-07, 07:46 PM	Thanks! I didn't know how to do that.