Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DragonByte 05-10-07, 07:57 PM	So I'm working on my first campaign and I'm creating a dragon as the mastermind of the state of the world. I want a dragon that is devious, evil, but lawful, so I was thinking green, but they don't instill the same kind of fear as black dragons do, but black dragons from my understanding aren't lawful, but they do seem power hungry which is good. So that's the first problem... The second is I want my dragon to have offspring, but now I'm not sure if I should have weaker true dragons or if I should have half dragons...now note that this world was wreaked with dragon slaying for a long time until this dragon destroyed them and then took over the world... Now there is one more problem which is more like a question... Do all dragons have the ability to polymorph? P.S. I know the idea of a dragon being the bad guy is old and over used, but the group I play with don't fight many dragons, and the last time we did the DM decided to screw us so I want a more compelling campaign with a dragon as the goal.
fiendish_platypus 05-10-07, 08:07 PM	1. Who says a Black Dragon can't be lawful? 2. I'd use half-dragons myself... 3. No, they get to cast spells, and then they use those spells to cast polymorph.
DragonByte 05-10-07, 08:12 PM	No one said they can't...But a vengeful dragon being lawful*Thinks* Why would you use half-dragons? To make the fight with the dragon more climatic? How long does a polymorph spell last(I haven't used one before)
fiendish_platypus 05-10-07, 08:32 PM	2. I just use half-dragons because (a) they make the fight with the dragon more cooler, (b) they're so much cooler ("That squirrel just breathed how many d6s of fire?!?!?!?"), and (c) Well, there really is no C, but there could be if I thought hard enough. 3. Look in your PHB or on the d20srd (d20srd.org) (just search "Polymorph" and BAM it's there.) EDIT: Figured out a (c), although it's kinda pushing it, you could make them alot easier than actual dragon. Plus if you wanted little dragons that means TWO big dragons, wich is just cruel...
Misaru 05-10-07, 09:21 PM	1) Nothing stops you from brooding both baby dragons and half-dragons does it? 2) You might want to make your main dragon (who I''l shall name Jim) something brand-new to make a fight for PCs all the more epic. A Green/Black dragon would actually look incredible cool, and probably more devious than either by themselves. Also, you might want to make your dragon neutral-evil by the description of Jim. 3) Fire/Acid breath. Think about it.
fiendish_platypus 05-10-07, 09:26 PM	1) Nothing stops you from brooding both baby dragons and half-dragons does it? 2) You might want to make your main dragon (who I''l shall name Jim) something brand-new to make a fight for PCs all the more epic. A Green/Black dragon would actually look incredible cool, and probably more devious than either by themselves. Also, you might want to make your dragon neutral-evil by the description of Jim. 3) Fire/Acid breath. Think about it. 1. No, but then you'll still need a mrs. for Jim. 2. That'd be cool, but I'd probably go for like blue/black, or even cooler, blue/red, purple, a purple dragon, imagine that? Oh man, I'm a genius. 3. Your Jim would only have acid breath, mine would have fire/electricity breath, so nyah. Do not use this post for any academic reasons whatsoever, contained content may be immature or incredibly wrong, quote at your own risk.
runestar 05-10-07, 10:26 PM	Only metallic dragons have the ability to use alternate form. Chromatic dragons will have to rely on more conventional means of shapechanging, such as polymorph. You could consider a base dragon with the half dragon template added onto it. White dragon with half-red dragon template or vice versa is nice for canceling out their vulnerabilities.:)
DragonByte 05-10-07, 10:35 PM	First of all, I really like the name Jim, it's simple and depends respect. Second, I like the idea of the Black/Green dragon a lot, you've got the politics of a green with the terror of the black...its perfect! Now if only he was actually purple, because I have a think for purple...Oh wait, i forgot, I'm god of this world I shall make him purple and say it was the result of a failed curse by a demon whom he ate moments later.... I have to agree once again that the offspring are better off half dragons and claiming their mother was killed which sparked the rage of the mixed dragon. I think I want to make him a mature adult, what level should a party of 5 PC's be for that? 15? 18?
fiendish_platypus 05-11-07, 07:59 AM	First of all, I really like the name Jim, it's simple and depends respect. Second, I like the idea of the Black/Green dragon a lot, you've got the politics of a green with the terror of the black...its perfect! Now if only he was actually purple, because I have a think for purple...Oh wait, i forgot, I'm god of this world I shall make him purple and say it was the result of a failed curse by a demon whom he ate moments later.... I have to agree once again that the offspring are better off half dragons and claiming their mother was killed which sparked the rage of the mixed dragon. I think I want to make him a mature adult, what level should a party of 5 PC's be for that? 15? 18? 1. I like it too, but not for those reasons, just 'cause it sounds cool. 2. I have a thing for purple too, coolest color in the world, anyway, the abilities of a green/black dragon would be pretty stupid, more acid breath, more immunity to acid, pretty much stuff that doesn't stack, repeating the abilities, that's why I chose purple. 3. For a mature adult Purple Dragon (a) Base Red, half-blue- CR 20 (Level 17-18) (b) *Base Blue, half-red- CR 18 (Level 15-16) (c) Base Black, half-green- CR 16 (Level 13-14) (d) Base Green, half-black- CR 18 (Level 15-16) (*-What I'm going to use) If you want it to be like a 'boss battle' type thing I'd suggest maybe two or three levels below the challenge rating, also I'd suggest using option (b) because it allows for some surprising things (electricity and fire), I, personally would add the Multih eaded template to that (Savage Species) to make it CR 20, that would really creep my players out. EDIT: Also, with a Purple Dragon, you could have both Half-Blue and Half-Red offspring, adding some variety.
vegetalss4 05-11-07, 12:48 PM	dont you mean option (b) bisides a half red half bule dragon would not be purple he/she would be red with blue marks, But i would accept that just because purple is the king of the colers:D
fiendish_platypus 05-11-07, 12:52 PM	dont you mean option (b) bisides a half red half bule dragon would not be purple he/she would be red with blue marks, But i would accept that just because purple is the king of the colers:D I would make it purple, it would look WAY cooler. And yes, you're right, I do mean option (b), I'll go edit that now.
DragonByte 05-11-07, 01:20 PM	The Black/Green dragon fits in the world and his personality, I can easily increase his CR by adjusting his stats. What book has the template for half dragons?
fiendish_platypus 05-11-07, 01:35 PM	The Black/Green dragon fits in the world and his personality, I can easily increase his CR by adjusting his stats. What book has the template for half dragons? If you were to make a Half-Black/Green dragon I don't think it would be in the slightest effective. All of the abilities don't stack. For example a Black dragon is immune to acid. adding the half-green template to it makes him immune to acid. A Black Dragon breathes acid 1/1d4 rounds. Adding the half-green template gives you a weaker one, usable 1/day. Black Dragons have a HD of 1d12. Half-green increases the HD by one step, to a maximum of 1d12. Black Dragons fly at over double their land speed. Half-green lets them fly at double their land speed. Black Dragons have strong claws and bites. Half-green adds weak claws and bite. Black Dragons are dragons. Half-green adds the dragon type. Black Dragons get skills as dragons. Half-green lets them get skills as dragons. All you'd get would be stat boosts, and armor class, essentially. But if you still wish to, here they are. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfDragon.htm They're also in the MM.
wonlee76 05-11-07, 03:43 PM	Since this is a custom campaign world, why not make up your own dragon using existing chromatic or metallic dragons as a guideline to figure out its CR. I would lean towards metallic dragons since they have features/abilities that can truly fit your concept of a mastermind type of villain. They get that alter self ability so they can blend in with the regular populace. Metallic dragons get 2 types of breath weapons (lethal and non-lethal usually) but you could always tweak that around in some fashion.
Kraven_Redcloak 05-11-07, 04:35 PM	If you really want a lawful dragon that instills terror you could always try either a blue dragon or a hellfire wyrm, there both lawful. Isn't there already a purple dragon that isn't a hybrid? I think they give it's stats in teh Dragon compandium along with the Orange and Yellow Dragon
fiendish_platypus 05-11-07, 04:38 PM	... Isn't there already a purple dragon that isn't a hybrid? I think they give it's stats in teh Dragon compandium along with the Orange and Yellow Dragon Oh man, that'd be awesome... Too bad I don't have that book.
Misaru 05-12-07, 03:42 AM	1) Nope, not Purple Dragon (or yellow or orange. almost got an orange set up though) in the Draconmicon (dragon book). I checked. They got a kickin rust dragon though. 2) Oops. Sorry for a previous post: I was under the idea that green dragons had fire breath. Silly me. I still like Acid/Fire much better. "It burns inside and outside." 3) I'm too sure about using the half-dragon template. It more just confuses things. Just go ahead and take the strong points of both dragons and increase the CR to 150-200%.
DonThelonious 05-12-07, 04:47 AM	If you want a truly ingenious mastermind; a sick and vicious, methodical and obsessive; shape changing draconic BBEG my suggestion is: 1/2 Blue/Gold Dragon. You get all the col hate of the blue, and the overbearing panache of the gold. Thats just me though.
cradlefilthmikey 05-12-07, 05:26 AM	My 2 cents would be create your own masterfull black dragon. Being of lore for your own campaign you can make it whatever you want, rember WoTC states that these books are more so guidlines And as far as dragon spawn go check out the book Races of the Dragon. Half-dragons are cool and all but there can also be something more terrorfying about a lawfull evil Dragonborn, and/or dragon spawn! Spellscales are also a good choice for enimies!
fiendish_platypus 05-12-07, 08:44 AM	There's also a whole whack of Dragon Spawn in Monster Manual IV
DragonByte 05-12-07, 06:30 PM	I got the idea of an Eldarich(sp?) dragon, he could be purple, and like warlocks use eldarich blast as a breath weapon. Just modify it so that is is a beam and a blast. Also allow it to use invocations along with normal dragonic magic. But I'm going to look up the blue/gold combo...that sounds interesting... Also, I really like the "Burns on the inside and out" idea too.
Misaru 05-12-07, 06:49 PM	The Dragon Warlock is an ingenious idea. 1) Breath attack: Eldritch Blast (in a cone form) with one of the Essence Evocations. 2) Damage Reduction: x/cold iron 3) Immunity: None, but replaced with Acid and Fire Immunity (idea taken from acolyte of the skin). 4) Instead of being able to cast spells as a sorcerer, they would gain additional Invocations. This new dragon is almost fiendish in nature, embraced wtih demonic energies. Not sure if thats what you wanted, but I kinda inhanced on the previous post.
DragonByte 05-12-07, 06:52 PM	Your on the right track, it wouldn't be immune to anything, but where eldarich is like pure energy he would be resistant to all forms of energy, resistant but not impervious...
Misaru 05-12-07, 07:09 PM	Well, I had chosen the fire and acid resistance because those are the ones given by the fiendish template in MM. Resistance to all would make it way too overpowered. Which you might want I guess for a supremo dragon of the world. Might as well make its DR x/- with fast healing. Why not?
DragonByte 05-12-07, 07:14 PM	Fast healing! Thats a great idea! Fast healing 50! MUAHAHAHA! lol The reason i was suggesting all things was because I was going to hide dragon hide full plate in one of the half dragons lairs(well castle or whatever it happens to be), the hide would be the same from the dragon making the barer resistant to all as well. Also I was going to hide other dragonic artifacts that would be effect for this fight.
fiendish_platypus 05-12-07, 10:30 PM	Once in a campaign I had the PCs had to find a dragonbone (draconomicon, but could simply be a magic weapon) weapon that was really powerful against the dragon that it came from, it was preobably the only chance we had at beating the dragon.
Misaru 05-12-07, 11:43 PM	Is it really important to make a boss whose only importance is to get the PCs to find items to kill it? To me, I wouldn't want to go through a huge 3 session only to find that the end result is that I was supposed to find a shield whose only purpose is to help me defeat a boss whom I will not be fighting until the end of the whole campaign.
fiendish_platypus 05-13-07, 08:34 AM	Is it really important to make a boss whose only importance is to get the PCs to find items to kill it? To me, I wouldn't want to go through a huge 3 session only to find that the end result is that I was supposed to find a shield whose only purpose is to help me defeat a boss whom I will not be fighting until the end of the whole campaign. No, I'm just saying that's the only chance we had at killing him. The campaign was actually really good.
obrysii 05-13-07, 10:41 AM	2) You might want to make your main dragon (who I''l shall name Jim) Heh, in a story I'm writing, the main character can't pronounce the name of his dragon friend (a black dragon by the name of Xyixityim) so he just calls him Jim (since it sounds like the end of the dragon's name). Sorry for being off-topic.
LeuktheSavior 05-13-07, 11:00 AM	The Black dragon in my campaign/story is LE, borderline LN. Its a surly, bitter spiteful Great Wyrm Hidecarved Black Dragon that used to be the unrelenting, cruel master of all he surveyed, but as he grew older He fell into a sort of complacent stupor ruling over his land, became convinced his land and power was insurmountable, but woke up one morning to find a God-King lounging in his Treasure Hoard with a contract to bind the dragon and its land to his empire. shortly after resigning to being no more than a vassal to the God-King (named Matthias), the Black Dragon just up and left. As for your big bad evil dragon, I suggest A disciple of Ashardalon green dragon, if you have the draconimicon.
DragonByte 05-13-07, 11:15 AM	Are their Gem Dragons? Dragons who are designed after precious and semi precious gems?
fiendish_platypus 05-13-07, 11:59 AM	Are their Gem Dragons? Dragons who are designed after precious and semi precious gems? Yes, I think they're in the Epic Level Book, although I'm not positive, maybe MMII, I don't have any of those.
DragonByte 05-13-07, 12:15 PM	Do you remember their names or are they called Gem Dragons?
fiendish_platypus 05-13-07, 12:56 PM	Do you remember their names or are they called Gem Dragons? Stuff like Gem Dragon, Emerald Dragon, Amathyst Dragon, etc.
Doomed_Penguin 05-13-07, 02:06 PM	I suggest Black/Gold. Fallen Gold Dragon, evil Black Dragon. You have the "burns on the outside and inside" breath, black/gold scales, which would make such a cooler color than purple, and a cool background. I'd suggest NE in alignment, but it's pretty much up to you. I'll be making one of these now, good day.
fiendish_platypus 05-13-07, 02:09 PM	...black/gold scales, which would make such a cooler color than purple, I would so beat you up if you were anywhere near me...
DragonByte 05-13-07, 10:25 PM	I would so beat you up if you were anywhere near me... I have to agree with you Purple PWNS all...sorry...lol I think I'm going to go with the Eldrich Dragon, I can base his body and stuff off of the Black, but have him like a metalic so he can morph at will between human and dragon, and give him warlock like abilities. Best part...he will be purple...
Misaru 05-14-07, 02:01 AM	Well, the problem on basing your dragon on a black dragon is the fact that black dragons are catagorized with the second worst of the dragon races (above white dragons). Sure, he could look like the black dragon (sort of), but you mighht want to base him off (stat wize) the red or green dragons. Plus, black dragons are relatively small comparitivly.
fiendish_platypus 05-14-07, 07:30 AM	Or blue, blue is inbetween red and green in power, scaling with the silver on the chromatic=metallic thingy.
gwiber 05-14-07, 08:21 AM	Might I suggest some DnD book research? If you have the time. and the will. There is a Book. The Draconomicon... SECOND EDITION. that deals with just about every question you have asked here. Getting your hands on a copy of the old Council of Wyrms would be of immense use here as well. The old Draco had all the rules for fostering and breeding hybrids of Dragons by color. As well as information far more in depth about dragon psychology and gods than anything in 3/0/3.5 right now. And yes there was a purple dragon. He breathed an energy beam. Though I can't recall the stats at this point. My 2nd Ed Draco is in storage at the moment. Usually a hybrid dragon took the better of the stats across the board of the parents. And chose one of the two breath weapons. Or an amaglam breath weapon if they weren't inconsistent with each other. (A Gold-White in breed for example) It was also highly likely that when two colors mated that the clutch could turn up in either single color with the opposite breath weapon. A green-blue baby born entirely blue with a gas breath weapon. The old Gem Dragons, and it appears the new ones, are almost universally of a neutral bent; and were designed with Psionics in mind for Dragons. So unless you want to go through the effort or re-statting their Psionic powers to magic. or want to use Psionics. I'd steer away from them as printed beings. and Just make them up as you see fit if you want to use them. Personally for sheer ferocity, and animal mean. I went with a Brown Dragon (as printed in a very old Dragon Magazine issue). Tough. mean. very animalistic. And it's breath weapon was a roar that could explode ear drums. and shake apart the bones in it's enemies. Or worse yet, Territorial and mean-spirited, a Yellow dragon who spews sulfur as a breath weapon (also, and Old Dragon magazine dragon). These things liked to live near rivers, but hated the water. They would wait for pretty to cross a river. then spew sulfur on them when they came out. (It's a chemistry thing... ask around). The best way to deal with them was to immerse them in water, and get a resurrection for yourself afterwards...