Post/Author/DateTime	Post
zzo38 06-10-07, 12:14 PM	This is a drakeling race from ADOM I used sometimes see if you have comments please? Racial abilities: No ability score adjustment. Base speed 30 feet but you can become faster in hotter temperature and slower in cold temperature. (cold-bloodiness) Proficiency with drakish scurgaris (a type of thrown weapons) Acid breath weapon, 1d6+ (1/3)HD damage but fatigues you if used, as well as dealing nonlethal damage equal to your HD to yourself +1 Spot, +1 Listen +2 Perform (any musical instruments) -2 Perform (sing) if no accompaniment exists
Shedeo 06-10-07, 02:16 PM	Okay, well firstly, you should cover a lot of the other bases with the race than you have. What size is the creature? What are the stats on the thrown weapon? How much faster/slower do they become in hotter/colder temperatures? What is their favored class? Also, you said that their acid breath weapon deals 1d6 plus one per three hit dice. Does this mean that it maxes out at 1d6+6, or is it 1d6 plus 1d6 per three hit dice? Also, how many times per day can they use it? What is its range/size? Also, since penalties to skills is rather unorthodox, what I would do is give them a +2 to one perform skill of their choice, and bump up the Spot/Listen bonuses to +2 as well. These are the questions that need answered for the race.
AMGriffin 06-10-07, 02:29 PM	These things are weak as hell.
Mnky 06-10-07, 02:34 PM	I'm pretty sure they'd be medium sized. I'd add that drakelings get hasted or slowed by extremes of temperatures, rather than just having their movement speeds increased. The breath weapon can be used as many times a day as you can without knocking yourself out. Also, wouldn't they have a charisma penalty, basically being lizards and all?
AMGriffin 06-10-07, 02:38 PM	Lizardfolk are lizards, and have no penalty to charisma. Lizards can be charming ya know. Just look at Gex. This race needs more though, this version is even weaker then the half-elf.
zzo38 06-10-07, 06:18 PM	Okay, well firstly, you should cover a lot of the other bases with the race than you have. What size is the creature? What are the stats on the thrown weapon? How much faster/slower do they become in hotter/colder temperatures? What is their favored class? Size = medium Thrown weapon (scurgari) = Maybe 1d8 (crit x2). According to ADOM:"Scurgari are roughly crescent-shaped throwing blades. The blade actually runs around the outer bow, while the inner bow has a small spike protruding from it (roughly in the center)." What range increment do you think would be good? Temperatures = I'm not sure, I would like some suggestions on this Favored class = Is it possible to have no favored class? (Or maybe "any", since the ADOM manual says "drakelings are good at everything", although humans have that and not everyone should have the same, it isn't fair). Also, you said that their acid breath weapon deals 1d6 plus one per three hit dice. Does this mean that it maxes out at 1d6+6, or is it 1d6 plus 1d6 per three hit dice? Also, how many times per day can they use it? What is its range/size? It is +1 per three hit dice, not +1d6 per three dit dice. Maybe 20 feet is a good range. I guess you can use it every minute but you become fatigued and take nonlethal damage so it isn't a very good idea to use it all the time anyways. Also, since penalties to skills is rather unorthodox, what I would do is give them a +2 to one perform skill of their choice, and bump up the Spot/Listen bonuses to +2 as well. OK, but maybe you have to choose a perform skill dealing with musical instruments (drakelings have hissing accent and probably cannot sing very well like that). These are the questions that need answered for the race. O, I also think people playing ADOM should know a bit more things and can probably understand it better?
Neutronium_Dragon 06-10-07, 06:58 PM	I played ADOM a lot, but it was several years ago and my recollection is spotty at best. The cold bloodedness trait won't work in D&D. Apart from the fact that D&D doesn't even attempt to model cold bloodedness, the way it worked in ADOM was acceptable due to the fact that you were guaranteed to have it affect you both ways in various stages of the game, something which isn't true in a D&D campaign. The end result is that it could be a massive advantage or disadvantage or not relevant at all, and that makes it impossible to balance. Likewise, the breath weapon causing fatigue was a balancing mechanism in ADOM which isn't necessary in D&D due to system differences. Simply having a breath weapon which is usable every few rounds without drawback is already doable. A further point is that it really needs to scale dice, not just a bonus, or it will end up so weak beyond the first level or two that it will never be used. A simple "1d6 per two levels (minimum 1d6), usable once per encounter" would probably be fine and wouldn't need any negative offset. In D&D terms something like that is good for clearing fodder but won't generally be a good primary attack. An alternative would be for the breath weapon do affect one target for damage equal to 1d6 + character level, but it can be used as a swift action rather than as a standard action. In this case, making it a once per encounter ability also works. This is more of an acid spit than an acid breath, but it accomplishes a similar result. +2 to Spot and Listen would be more standard. I would leave off the Perform penalty because D&D doesn't generally care what your voice sounds like as far as singing goes. Things with stranger voices than a drakeling don't have a penalty on that count, so why should they? So we have... Medium Humanoid (Drakeling, Dragonblood) Base Speed 30' +2 to Spot and Listen checks +2 to Perform checks involving instruments Acid Spit: As a swift action, a drakeling may spit acid at a target within 20'. This requires a ranged touch attack and inflicts acid equal to 1d6 plus the drakeling's character level. This ability may be used once per encounter. Drakelings are proficient with the drakish scugari Which is better, but could use some rounding out and perhaps the addition of another signature ability. Acid Spit is nice but not particularly strong, the proficiency is mostly a theme element (since it's not really any better than throwing a trident), and the skill bonuses are useful but not race-defining. Granting them a +1 natural armor bonus would certainly work. It fits the theme, and by today's way of thinking a +1 natural armor bonus can work on an LA +0 race. It's about the equivalent of a feat in terms of power. Coupled with everything else, it's comparable to the raft of things which the other standard races get. Favored Class: Any is fine. They're culturally themed to it, and it's not specifically an advantage (there are times when Favored Class: Something Specific is better). Going solely on the basis of ADOM's races, we can also set their languages... Medium Humanoid (Drakeling, Dragonblood, Reptilian) Base Speed 30' +2 to Spot and Listen checks +2 to Perform checks involving instruments Acid Spit: As a swift action, a drakeling may spit acid at a target within 20'. This requires a ranged touch attack and inflicts acid damage equal to 1d6 plus the drakeling's character level. This ability may be used once per encounter. Tough Skin: Drakelings have a +1 natural armor bonus Drakelings are proficient with the drakish scugari Favored Class: Any Automatic Languages: Common, Draconic, Regional (if applicable) Bonus Languages: Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Halfling, Orc
zzo38 06-10-07, 11:18 PM	I played ADOM a lot, but it was several years ago and my recollection is spotty at best. The cold bloodedness trait won't work in D&D. Apart from the fact that D&D doesn't even attempt to model cold bloodedness, the way it worked in ADOM was acceptable due to the fact that you were guaranteed to have it affect you both ways in various stages of the game, something which isn't true in a D&D campaign. The end result is that it could be a massive advantage or disadvantage or not relevant at all, and that makes it impossible to balance. Likewise, the breath weapon causing fatigue was a balancing mechanism in ADOM which isn't necessary in D&D due to system differences. Simply having a breath weapon which is usable every few rounds without drawback is already doable. A further point is that it really needs to scale dice, not just a bonus, or it will end up so weak beyond the first level or two that it will never be used. A simple "1d6 per two levels (minimum 1d6), usable once per encounter" would probably be fine and wouldn't need any negative offset. In D&D terms something like that is good for clearing fodder but won't generally be a good primary attack. An alternative would be for the breath weapon do affect one target for damage equal to 1d6 + character level, but it can be used as a swift action rather than as a standard action. In this case, making it a once per encounter ability also works. This is more of an acid spit than an acid breath, but it accomplishes a similar result. +2 to Spot and Listen would be more standard. I would leave off the Perform penalty because D&D doesn't generally care what your voice sounds like as far as singing goes. Things with stranger voices than a drakeling don't have a penalty on that count, so why should they? So we have... Medium Humanoid (Drakeling, Dragonblood) Base Speed 30' +2 to Spot and Listen checks +2 to Perform checks involving instruments Acid Spit: As a swift action, a drakeling may spit acid at a target within 20'. This requires a ranged touch attack and inflicts acid equal to 1d6 plus the drakeling's character level. This ability may be used once per encounter. Drakelings are proficient with the drakish scugari Which is better, but could use some rounding out and perhaps the addition of another signature ability. Acid Spit is nice but not particularly strong, the proficiency is mostly a theme element (since it's not really any better than throwing a trident), and the skill bonuses are useful but not race-defining. Granting them a +1 natural armor bonus would certainly work. It fits the theme, and by today's way of thinking a +1 natural armor bonus can work on an LA +0 race. It's about the equivalent of a feat in terms of power. Coupled with everything else, it's comparable to the raft of things which the other standard races get. Favored Class: Any is fine. They're culturally themed to it, and it's not specifically an advantage (there are times when Favored Class: Something Specific is better). Going solely on the basis of ADOM's races, we can also set their languages... Medium Humanoid (Drakeling, Dragonblood, Reptilian) Base Speed 30' +2 to Spot and Listen checks +2 to Perform checks involving instruments Acid Spit: As a swift action, a drakeling may spit acid at a target within 20'. This requires a ranged touch attack and inflicts acid damage equal to 1d6 plus the drakeling's character level. This ability may be used once per encounter. Tough Skin: Drakelings have a +1 natural armor bonus Drakelings are proficient with the drakish scugari Favored Class: Any Automatic Languages: Common, Draconic, Regional (if applicable) Bonus Languages: Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Halfling, Orc This is excellent. The only thing I don't like is "per encounter" (that includes the Factotum inspiration points, but that isn't relevant to this thread), a certain number per day is better.
Mnky 06-11-07, 04:33 AM	The only thing I don't like is "per encounter" (that includes the Factotum inspiration points, but that isn't relevant to this thread), a certain number per day is better. Maybe 'once every 1d4+1 rounds' would be better?
JellyPooga 06-11-07, 07:49 AM	Why do they have no racial mods to their ability scores? Drakelings in ADOM had very high Strength and Toughness, but lower Dex and very low Appearance ('cos that particular stat was based on human perception of attraciveness). In D&D, I translate that as something like +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Cha...more or less, though I'd personally take out the Cha penalty. With regards to their 'Cold-Blooded' trait, it doesn't translate well into D&D, but if you really wanted to implement it, I would rule it as a slight (+/-10ft/round) move speed modifier. Other things to note. Think about giving them a Swim speed (Drakelings are notoriously good at swimming), though it'd probably be quite low (20ft/round maybe) and giving them a Favoured Class of Bard (All Drakelings get the 'Music' skill and Musical Instruments are particularly favoured as sacrifices to their deities).
zzo38 06-12-07, 01:57 PM	Maybe 'once every 1d4+1 rounds' would be better? OK, maybe it is better that way, although that is definitely more than once per encounter! Why do they have no racial mods to their ability scores? Drakelings in ADOM had very high Strength and Toughness, but lower Dex and very low Appearance ('cos that particular stat was based on human perception of attraciveness). In D&D, I translate that as something like +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Cha...more or less, though I'd personally take out the Cha penalty. With regards to their 'Cold-Blooded' trait, it doesn't translate well into D&D, but if you really wanted to implement it, I would rule it as a slight (+/-10ft/round) move speed modifier. Other things to note. Think about giving them a Swim speed (Drakelings are notoriously good at swimming), though it'd probably be quite low (20ft/round maybe) and giving them a Favoured Class of Bard (All Drakelings get the 'Music' skill and Musical Instruments are particularly favoured as sacrifices to their deities). Maybe +2 to Swim skill? And using those ability modifiers, if the Cha penalty is taken out it becomes too much positive, if it is put in and the favored class of Bard is used (as you suggested) then it won't be as good for that favored class. For cold-blooded what temperature would trigger the speed change? Or maybe I should just not use all these changes since it seems to make LA +1 or higher and a few other messy things as well. What else is needed though is the information for scurgari (price, damage, etc). But, if you know how to apply coldbloodiness and racial ability modifiers without making it strong or weak or messy or LA +1 or higher, then suggest it please.
AnonymouseRex 10-12-07, 11:49 PM	Well ... ND got pretty close, but I dissagree with the lack of cold blood being functional. The reason its not in D&D is cause it ain't been written yet. I'd do it this way. Medium Humanoid (Drakeling, Dragonblood, Reptilian) Base Speed 30', Swim 20' +1 Str, -2 Dex +2 to Spot, Listen, and Perform checks Acid Spit: As a standard action a drakeling may spit acid at a target within 20'. This requires a ranged touch attack and inflicts acid damage equal to 1d6+1 per the drakeling's character level. The Drakeling requires 1 full minute to recharge their supply of acid before firing a second time. Cold Blooded: In temperatures above 90° degree a Drakeling gains a +10' bonus to their land speed, a +20 bonus to their swim speed, and a +2 bonus to initiative checks. In temperatures below 30 degrees the Drakeling suffers a -10' penalty to their land speed, a -10 penalty to their swim speed, and a -2 penalty to initiative checks. Damage and normal penalties for cold weather are doubled. The temperature that a Drakeling begins suffering from hot, severe heat, and extreme heat conditions is raised to 110°, 140°, and 180° respectivly. Tough Skin: Drakelings have a +1 natural armor bonus. Favored Class: Bard? Automatic Languages: Common, Bonus Languages: \ ------ Now thats a neat Race! The additional cold penalties I think balance out the acid spit being better than 1/day or encounter or whatnot. 1 minute makes it far worse than a draconic breath weapon. The lack of saves makes it a standard kind of attack. Though... usually "breath weapons" work more like this. Area (cone, stream, or explosion), Fortitude save DC 10 + 1/2 the Drakeling's HD. Saving for half damage. Then .. ya just whip the damage up on a table 1d6+1 per HD is fine I think. Obviously the spit ain't all that super duper tough. "Drakelings are proficient with the drakish scugari" Was removed because you want to put that into the item description. Saves space. Automatic Languages: Common, Draconic, Regional (if applicable) Bonus Languages: Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Halfling, Orc Was removed because I don't think it was very well thought out, but you get the idea and I'm sure you can fill in this gap. Remember everyone gets common. Cause there are no language barriers in D&D :D I woulda done it but I am not familiar with the race/setting itself.