Dwarf Rewrite [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dwarf Rewrite [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
tombowings
04-07-07, 04:03 PM This is my Dwarf. I've been getting sick of all the subraces, and decided to try something else.
Where multiple abilities are listed, pick one of them to gain as a racial ability or bonus. It needs a little rewording now; but you will get the general idea. I just wanted to see what you people thought of the idea.

Dwarf

Ability score modifiers:
+2 Constitution, -2 Charisma
+2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity
Size and type: Medium humanoid
Base speed: 20 feet, no reduction in armor/encumbrance
Darkvision:
60 feet
120 feet and Light Sensitivity (Ex): Dwarves are dazzled in sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.
Attack and AC bonuses: c
+2 bonus on attack rolls against aberrations, +2 dodge bonus to AC against giants
+2 bonus on attack rolls against goblinoids and orcs, +2 dodge bonus to AC against giants
+2 bonus on attack rolls against spider-like creatures, including retrievers, phase spiders, driders, etc. And a +2 dodge bonus to AC against giants
Skills:
+2 on appraise and craft check as normal, but related to gems as well.
+2 on appraise checks as normal, but related to gems as well; +2 on Diplomacy checks related to buying and selling metal or stone items or gems.
+2 on Listen and Move Silently checks.
Special Abilities (choose two):
Camouflage (Su): Once per day, when in a cavern or other natural underground area, a Dwarves can gain +12 bonus on Hide checks for 1 minute.
Naturally Psionic: Dwarves gain 1 bonus power point at 1st level. This benefit does not grant them the ability to manifest powers unless they gain that ability through another source, such as levels in a psionic class.
+2 vs. poisons
+2 vs. spells/spell-like effects
Stability: +4
Stonecunning
Weapon familiarity: Dwarves treats all exotic weapons with "dwarf" in name as martial rather than exotic weapons.
Automatic Languages: Common and Dwarven. Bonus Languages: Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Terran, and Undercommon.
Favored Class:
Fighter
Knight
Treymordin
04-07-07, 05:10 PM That is alot of stuff with no LA.
Wharin
04-08-07, 03:02 AM That is alot of stuff with no LA.

Actually, its not (if i am reading it right)... In each catagory you chose 1 (except for special abilities where you chose 2)

In fact, if you look closely (providing i am reading it right), they are actually getting (slightly) hosed, compared to their PHB counterparts. The only exception is that now they have a bit of customization.

My only concern is that it doesn't have/give the option of having the bonuses to poison and spell saves. I also think Cleric is a better choice for Favored Class than Knight is, but maybe thats just me.

I dunno... I think its core idea is pretty cool, but I would like to reserve judgement till i see how the OP handles the rest of the PHB races. But yeah.. still a neat idea.
Shadowfax7
04-08-07, 09:39 AM I like the idea of customization, but you need to include the choice of save bonuses to be fair.

Something like choose one of the following:

+2 vs. poisons and spells/spell-like effects

Immunity to poison and paralyzation (from the Duergar description)

Also, why they only get +2 dodge bonus vs. giants and not +4, it's not that powerful of a bonus ??
tombowings
04-08-07, 12:57 PM Before I started this, I rebalanced all the races. And forgot to add those back in. Thanks for reminding me.
Shadowfax7
04-08-07, 02:42 PM Before I started this, I rebalanced all the races. And forgot to add those back in. Thanks for reminding me.But in that case it should be choose 4, not 2 special abilities.

I am curios as to why you reduced the dodge bonus to +2 ??
tombowings
04-08-07, 02:46 PM Well, dwarves, as written in the PHB are by far one of the strongest races available. I wanted to preserve their flavor, but still balance them out a little.
AMGriffin
04-08-07, 06:20 PM ^No they are not. Dwarves have good defensive capabilities but calling them "one of the most powerful" is a bit excessive I think.

But anyway, looks good. But i'd lower the specialized combat bonuses a bit.
Wolf72
04-10-07, 08:26 AM soooo it looks like you're using the Skills/Powers option, right? (2e books ... kinda a 2.5e)

you've taken the basic dwarf abilities among the known dwarven races and allowed the player to make his own rather than take a pre-made package (which is what Skills and Powers did too).

I like what you have, but I'd go with cleric instead of knight too
AMGriffin
04-10-07, 09:46 AM I actually own skills and powers. The point buy system worked quite similar to his post, but you could buy ANYTHING so long as you had enough points.
Faithkeep
04-10-07, 12:50 PM Yeah... Cleric should replace Knight. Maybe even Paladin.
Teydyn
04-10-07, 01:19 PM Nice idea, needs a bit finetuning IMO.

120 feet and Light Sensitivity (Ex): Dwarves are dazzled in sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.
Isnt there a feat to counter Light Sensitivity? So +60ft darkvision for a feat? Sold.
Maybe reduce to 90ft.?

+2 bonus on attack rolls against aberrations/goblinoids and orcs/spider-like creatures
All Aberrations are a bit too strong compared to the others?

+2 appraise & craft +gems
+2 appraise + gems, +2 Diplomacy buy/sell metal/stone items
+2 Listen/Move Silently
Listen/Move Silent way stronger then the other 2, reduce bonus to 1?

Special Abilities (choose two)
+2 vs Spells and stuff is too strong compared to the others.
Maybe split it up into +1 choosable twice with 3 options to pick?
tombowings
04-10-07, 06:20 PM Thanks everyone. I am working on a new version of this. I will post is when it gets done (tomorrow I think).
zuul88
04-11-07, 06:25 AM Why change the dwarf??? You can already customize them. Pick different dwarves. They are one of the oldest races(like elves) and that should allow a bunch of different kinds of dwarf. Insular being over a period of time WILL change. I would Never play this "dwarf." It is weak. Period.
Shadowfax7
04-11-07, 10:33 AM I agree with Zuul in that this Dwarf write-up is weak.

However, I have no problem with customizing the Dwarf, but at the very least that customization should be able to allow you to play a Dwarf from the PHB if you wanted to. Your customization doesn't allow this.
Khementari
04-11-07, 03:48 PM When someone says I'm rewriting "x" for my game it means the old one is gone. I'm sure there is a reason and most likely it's because he has a different "vision" for what dwarves are in the scope of his world.

Do not criticize his choice. Do not think you should be able to play the PHB dwarf simply because you think it's your right.

Explore the idea. Ask the author a few questions and find out why he wants his own dwarves and what motivated the idea.

Then, if you decide you want to assist, give critical and valuable feedback.
Leo
04-11-07, 03:52 PM Since when a guy who just loves to wear heavy armor it's good at hding and moving silently??????

From what I know, dwarfs are actually known for a lack of sutelty, not for being sneaky.

The rest seems okay.
tombowings
04-12-07, 06:04 PM Im getting around to the rewrite. Really...Im just overloaded....soom, really.
tombowings
04-12-07, 08:58 PM Rewrite here (http://www.liquidmateria.info/wiki/Dwarves#Racial_Traits)
zuul88
04-13-07, 12:37 AM First I would like to say "Excuse Me." As it was pointed out one shouldn't critisize but offer "helpful suggestions." This dwarf is substantionally weaker then the PHB dwarf. You want to make a more "customizable dwarf" that is fine BUT with this dwarf you should get as many racial traits as the Original. Otherwise who would not want to play this one with so many other choices. The naturally psionic choice is nice but I already have 2 Naturally psionic dwarven choices(Dueager and Alteitian) that with a +1 LA give me more then this would. Alteitian actually give an Int +2 boost with Sardior as their god(he bought the Rokehold Clan from Moradin.) That is WotC Minds Eye.

What makes this race better, not stronger but better then what is already out. As a PC I can choose any aligment that I want so a cultural alignment can be overcome obviously. What about Paragon classes? They help mitigate penalties and enhance attributes while helping whatever the favored class of the race would be. What would Paragon Classes do for this race?

That is my question basically. Why is this an improvement?? I am pretty much a 2nd ed. player who skipped right into 3.5, so I may be missing some crucial element. Please clarify this for me.

Respect
Nathan
tombowings
04-13-07, 12:44 AM Honestly, I just dont think we are seeing eye to eye about what we would like to see in a race. I like options, and I was wondering what would happen if two sub-dwarfs races were to bread. I came up with this so that one would be able to make whatever kind of dwarf they wanted. The power for me comes from the ability to make whatever kind of dwarf I want.

As for the problems, you hit the nail right on the head. And I thank you for that. I did not think about paragon classes and the like.

BTW, did you look at the updated version?
zuul88
04-13-07, 03:56 PM Yes. The race on paper is no where near as "good" as any other dwarf and the fluff is confusing. Love is important and marriage is monogamus but marriages are usually arranged or for "mating." That is contraticing. The wealth is wrong to. They are Expert Craftsmen. That means they get alot of money for their Work not just the weight of gold and gems. Sure 1/2 ounce of gold and 2 amythests go to the surface, how much do you think is being paid for that ring? Look I am not trying to rip on you. It is great to see that you have an idea and put forth a good amount of effort to build upon it.
Good Luck and Farewell.

Respect
Nathan
tombowings
04-13-07, 04:02 PM Its good to know people think it is weeks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tombowings 04-07-07, 04:03 PM	This is my Dwarf. I've been getting sick of all the subraces, and decided to try something else. Where multiple abilities are listed, pick one of them to gain as a racial ability or bonus. It needs a little rewording now; but you will get the general idea. I just wanted to see what you people thought of the idea. Dwarf Ability score modifiers: +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma +2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity Size and type: Medium humanoid Base speed: 20 feet, no reduction in armor/encumbrance Darkvision: 60 feet 120 feet and Light Sensitivity (Ex): Dwarves are dazzled in sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell. Attack and AC bonuses: c +2 bonus on attack rolls against aberrations, +2 dodge bonus to AC against giants +2 bonus on attack rolls against goblinoids and orcs, +2 dodge bonus to AC against giants +2 bonus on attack rolls against spider-like creatures, including retrievers, phase spiders, driders, etc. And a +2 dodge bonus to AC against giants Skills: +2 on appraise and craft check as normal, but related to gems as well. +2 on appraise checks as normal, but related to gems as well; +2 on Diplomacy checks related to buying and selling metal or stone items or gems. +2 on Listen and Move Silently checks. Special Abilities (choose two): Camouflage (Su): Once per day, when in a cavern or other natural underground area, a Dwarves can gain +12 bonus on Hide checks for 1 minute. Naturally Psionic: Dwarves gain 1 bonus power point at 1st level. This benefit does not grant them the ability to manifest powers unless they gain that ability through another source, such as levels in a psionic class. +2 vs. poisons +2 vs. spells/spell-like effects Stability: +4 Stonecunning Weapon familiarity: Dwarves treats all exotic weapons with "dwarf" in name as martial rather than exotic weapons. Automatic Languages: Common and Dwarven. Bonus Languages: Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Terran, and Undercommon. Favored Class: Fighter Knight
Treymordin 04-07-07, 05:10 PM	That is alot of stuff with no LA.
Wharin 04-08-07, 03:02 AM	That is alot of stuff with no LA. Actually, its not (if i am reading it right)... In each catagory you chose 1 (except for special abilities where you chose 2) In fact, if you look closely (providing i am reading it right), they are actually getting (slightly) hosed, compared to their PHB counterparts. The only exception is that now they have a bit of customization. My only concern is that it doesn't have/give the option of having the bonuses to poison and spell saves. I also think Cleric is a better choice for Favored Class than Knight is, but maybe thats just me. I dunno... I think its core idea is pretty cool, but I would like to reserve judgement till i see how the OP handles the rest of the PHB races. But yeah.. still a neat idea.
Shadowfax7 04-08-07, 09:39 AM	I like the idea of customization, but you need to include the choice of save bonuses to be fair. Something like choose one of the following: +2 vs. poisons and spells/spell-like effects Immunity to poison and paralyzation (from the Duergar description) Also, why they only get +2 dodge bonus vs. giants and not +4, it's not that powerful of a bonus ??
tombowings 04-08-07, 12:57 PM	Before I started this, I rebalanced all the races. And forgot to add those back in. Thanks for reminding me.
Shadowfax7 04-08-07, 02:42 PM	Before I started this, I rebalanced all the races. And forgot to add those back in. Thanks for reminding me.But in that case it should be choose 4, not 2 special abilities. I am curios as to why you reduced the dodge bonus to +2 ??
tombowings 04-08-07, 02:46 PM	Well, dwarves, as written in the PHB are by far one of the strongest races available. I wanted to preserve their flavor, but still balance them out a little.
AMGriffin 04-08-07, 06:20 PM	^No they are not. Dwarves have good defensive capabilities but calling them "one of the most powerful" is a bit excessive I think. But anyway, looks good. But i'd lower the specialized combat bonuses a bit.
Wolf72 04-10-07, 08:26 AM	soooo it looks like you're using the Skills/Powers option, right? (2e books ... kinda a 2.5e) you've taken the basic dwarf abilities among the known dwarven races and allowed the player to make his own rather than take a pre-made package (which is what Skills and Powers did too). I like what you have, but I'd go with cleric instead of knight too
AMGriffin 04-10-07, 09:46 AM	I actually own skills and powers. The point buy system worked quite similar to his post, but you could buy ANYTHING so long as you had enough points.
Faithkeep 04-10-07, 12:50 PM	Yeah... Cleric should replace Knight. Maybe even Paladin.
Teydyn 04-10-07, 01:19 PM	Nice idea, needs a bit finetuning IMO. 120 feet and Light Sensitivity (Ex): Dwarves are dazzled in sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell. Isnt there a feat to counter Light Sensitivity? So +60ft darkvision for a feat? Sold. Maybe reduce to 90ft.? +2 bonus on attack rolls against aberrations/goblinoids and orcs/spider-like creatures All Aberrations are a bit too strong compared to the others? +2 appraise & craft +gems +2 appraise + gems, +2 Diplomacy buy/sell metal/stone items +2 Listen/Move Silently Listen/Move Silent way stronger then the other 2, reduce bonus to 1? Special Abilities (choose two) +2 vs Spells and stuff is too strong compared to the others. Maybe split it up into +1 choosable twice with 3 options to pick?
tombowings 04-10-07, 06:20 PM	Thanks everyone. I am working on a new version of this. I will post is when it gets done (tomorrow I think).
zuul88 04-11-07, 06:25 AM	Why change the dwarf??? You can already customize them. Pick different dwarves. They are one of the oldest races(like elves) and that should allow a bunch of different kinds of dwarf. Insular being over a period of time WILL change. I would Never play this "dwarf." It is weak. Period.
Shadowfax7 04-11-07, 10:33 AM	I agree with Zuul in that this Dwarf write-up is weak. However, I have no problem with customizing the Dwarf, but at the very least that customization should be able to allow you to play a Dwarf from the PHB if you wanted to. Your customization doesn't allow this.
Khementari 04-11-07, 03:48 PM	When someone says I'm rewriting "x" for my game it means the old one is gone. I'm sure there is a reason and most likely it's because he has a different "vision" for what dwarves are in the scope of his world. Do not criticize his choice. Do not think you should be able to play the PHB dwarf simply because you think it's your right. Explore the idea. Ask the author a few questions and find out why he wants his own dwarves and what motivated the idea. Then, if you decide you want to assist, give critical and valuable feedback.
Leo 04-11-07, 03:52 PM	Since when a guy who just loves to wear heavy armor it's good at hding and moving silently?????? From what I know, dwarfs are actually known for a lack of sutelty, not for being sneaky. The rest seems okay.
tombowings 04-12-07, 06:04 PM	Im getting around to the rewrite. Really...Im just overloaded....soom, really.
tombowings 04-12-07, 08:58 PM	Rewrite here (http://www.liquidmateria.info/wiki/Dwarves#Racial_Traits)
zuul88 04-13-07, 12:37 AM	First I would like to say "Excuse Me." As it was pointed out one shouldn't critisize but offer "helpful suggestions." This dwarf is substantionally weaker then the PHB dwarf. You want to make a more "customizable dwarf" that is fine BUT with this dwarf you should get as many racial traits as the Original. Otherwise who would not want to play this one with so many other choices. The naturally psionic choice is nice but I already have 2 Naturally psionic dwarven choices(Dueager and Alteitian) that with a +1 LA give me more then this would. Alteitian actually give an Int +2 boost with Sardior as their god(he bought the Rokehold Clan from Moradin.) That is WotC Minds Eye. What makes this race better, not stronger but better then what is already out. As a PC I can choose any aligment that I want so a cultural alignment can be overcome obviously. What about Paragon classes? They help mitigate penalties and enhance attributes while helping whatever the favored class of the race would be. What would Paragon Classes do for this race? That is my question basically. Why is this an improvement?? I am pretty much a 2nd ed. player who skipped right into 3.5, so I may be missing some crucial element. Please clarify this for me. Respect Nathan
tombowings 04-13-07, 12:44 AM	Honestly, I just dont think we are seeing eye to eye about what we would like to see in a race. I like options, and I was wondering what would happen if two sub-dwarfs races were to bread. I came up with this so that one would be able to make whatever kind of dwarf they wanted. The power for me comes from the ability to make whatever kind of dwarf I want. As for the problems, you hit the nail right on the head. And I thank you for that. I did not think about paragon classes and the like. BTW, did you look at the updated version?
zuul88 04-13-07, 03:56 PM	Yes. The race on paper is no where near as "good" as any other dwarf and the fluff is confusing. Love is important and marriage is monogamus but marriages are usually arranged or for "mating." That is contraticing. The wealth is wrong to. They are Expert Craftsmen. That means they get alot of money for their Work not just the weight of gold and gems. Sure 1/2 ounce of gold and 2 amythests go to the surface, how much do you think is being paid for that ring? Look I am not trying to rip on you. It is great to see that you have an idea and put forth a good amount of effort to build upon it. Good Luck and Farewell. Respect Nathan
tombowings 04-13-07, 04:02 PM	Its good to know people think it is weeks.