Dwarven Sorcerers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dwarven Sorcerers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BeSc
05-25-07, 01:30 AM Ok, i know this is supposedly a very widely acknowledged fact, but i have not been able to find the page in any of the books ive looked through that say that "A dwarven sorcerer adds its constitution modifier to its charisma score" if this is really true can you please point out the book and page for me? Thankyou
runestar
05-25-07, 01:41 AM Whatever gave you the idea that such an ability exists? :confused:
BeSc
05-25-07, 01:47 AM well i had been told that it did exist, i must be mistaken... :mad: not happy but thanks for helping me stop wasting my time! (goes off to cry)
Lotus Crane
05-25-07, 01:49 AM The only classes I can think of that use Con as their primary ability, would be any of the incarnum-based classes (Magic of Incarnum), and perhaps Deep Warden (Con effectively replaces Dex).
Nat_20
05-25-07, 01:58 AM Earth Meditation
If the Sorcerer spends 8 hours resting and 15
minutes preparing his/her spells while in contact
with the earth, the Sorcerer may add his/her
Constitution modifier to his/her Charisma
modifier for determining bonus Sorcerer spell
slots.

Dwarven Racial Substitution Races of Stone, Pg 147

That what you were thinking of???
Lotus Crane
05-25-07, 02:14 AM Earth Meditation
Dwarven Racial Substitution Races of Stone, Pg 147
Wow, I'd almost be tempted to call that ability brokenly good, but I guess because 1) it only adds Con for the purpose of bonus spells, not save DC, 2) it causes him to know 1 less 4th level spell, perhaps it's acceptable.
Borris
05-25-07, 03:59 AM It's far from broken. Note that you add your Constitution bonus to your Charisma score. Let's take a 9th-level dwarf sorcerer with Constition and Charisma scores of 18 (after racial modifiers, level bonuses, and stat enhancing items). He'd only add +4 (his Con modifier) to his Charisma score, giving him an effective Cha score of 22 instead of 18, and a modifier of +6 instead of +4. That means one extra 1st, 2nd, 5th, and 6th-level spell per day. Of course, at that level, he doesn't even get 5th or 6th-level spells, so half of the actual bonus is irrelevent until later.

At high-level, the most you could realisticly win is one extra spell of each of your two highest spell levels. You could get the same with two feats. But then, winning back that 4th-level spell you lost would also be worth a feat. Is that a good deal in the end? Of course, but you'd better be winning something if you choose to play a sorcerer with a race that has a Charisma penalty.
Solmyr
05-25-07, 04:01 AM It's far from broken. Note that you add your Constitution bonus to your Charisma score.

Actually no, according to the description posted above you add your Con bonus and your Cha bonus together, scores don't enter into it.
Alon D'ar
05-25-07, 04:07 AM Wish I knew about this when I played a Dwarven Sorcerer.
Borris
05-25-07, 04:23 AM To quote Races of Stone (emphasis mine):If the dwarf sorcerer spends his 8 hours of rest and 15 minutes of concentration to prepare his spells whil ein contact with the ground, his can add his constitution bonus (if any) to his Charisma score to determine his bonus sorcerer spell slots.
runestar
05-25-07, 06:30 AM There are a race of dwarves with a dex penalty instead of a cha penalty. Are they eligible for said prc?
The_Shaman
05-25-07, 06:35 AM I don't see why not (gold dwarves, iirc). In the FR books, it was iirc mentioned that the "baby boom" they experienced awhile ago has led to a few more sorcerers coming out.
Ecalsneerg
05-25-07, 06:36 AM There are a race of dwarves with a dex penalty instead of a cha penalty. Are they eligible for said prc?
It's not a PrC, it's a system where certain levels of a class are swapped out for race-appropriate ones. You can find kobold ones somewhere on the main site.

And I assume they qualify for it as long as they are Dwarves. Well, I assume so.
Metafictional
05-25-07, 07:16 AM Same goes for the Dream Dwarves also found in Races of Stone, although they lose some of the special Dwarven abiliites (such as saving throw bonuses). I played a Dream Dwarf substitution Sorcerer, those guys rock, although I wish I'd seen the Metamagic ability in PHB II, I think that would have been more useful than DR 1/Adamantine.

That having been said, the bonus to range for having both you and your target in contact with the ground is amazing.
StevenO
05-25-07, 06:46 PM 1. A very widely acknowledged "fact" is not always true. Look at the ancients which thought the world was flat.

2. Apparently this does have some truth although I don't call it widely known. I don't know its specifics (namely what it cost to aquire) but it seems you add your Con modifier to your Cha Score for determining bonus slots. This generally should NOT be a problem as Sorcerer already have a large number of slots so an extra one at a few spells levels shouldn't overpower a character (although it does't hurt) and secondly it shouldn't be too easy to get great Con and Cha scores for a Dwarf unless using obscene point buy or rolling methods. For a dwarf starting stats of Con 16, Cha 16 normally cost 22 points for PB which doesn't leave much for everything else.
Mr_Teapot
05-26-07, 09:15 AM Ok, i know this is supposedly a very widely acknowledged fact, but i have not been able to find the page in any of the books ive looked through that say that "A dwarven sorcerer adds its constitution modifier to its charisma score" if this is really true can you please point out the book and page for me? Thankyou

Not in any WotC book, but I know I saw this ability for a feat in some third party book about dwarves. I think it was Hammer and Helm from Green Ronin (http://www.greenronin.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1001&Product_Code=grr1101&Category_Code=7).

As noted, the ability would be quite powerful.
Forgember
05-27-07, 05:30 AM If you wana play a Dwarven Sorcerer without a Cha penalty, without being a dirty money grubbing Gold Dwarf or some other wierd Dwarf incarnation just ask if you can start play Venerable.
Sure you get -6 Str, Dex and Con but your gaining +3 Int, Wis and Cha, not to mention the fun of playing a crochity old Dwarf.
I made a char like this myself where he lived his entire life denying he had magical abilitys, once he was old and no one payed much attention to him it was time to hit the road and cast some spells. Here are some example Stats for lvl 1 Dwarf Sorcerer: Str 4 Dex 6 Con 10 Int 11 Wis 11 Cha 19 (28 pt buy).
Give it a try sometime its a blast.;)
Seldriss
05-28-07, 09:21 AM Wow, with a score of 4 in Strength you must travel light...
Forgember
05-29-07, 02:55 AM Yeah I took eschew materials so he didnt even have a spell component pouch.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BeSc 05-25-07, 01:30 AM	Ok, i know this is supposedly a very widely acknowledged fact, but i have not been able to find the page in any of the books ive looked through that say that "A dwarven sorcerer adds its constitution modifier to its charisma score" if this is really true can you please point out the book and page for me? Thankyou
runestar 05-25-07, 01:41 AM	Whatever gave you the idea that such an ability exists? :confused:
BeSc 05-25-07, 01:47 AM	well i had been told that it did exist, i must be mistaken... :mad: not happy but thanks for helping me stop wasting my time! (goes off to cry)
Lotus Crane 05-25-07, 01:49 AM	The only classes I can think of that use Con as their primary ability, would be any of the incarnum-based classes (Magic of Incarnum), and perhaps Deep Warden (Con effectively replaces Dex).
Nat_20 05-25-07, 01:58 AM	Earth Meditation If the Sorcerer spends 8 hours resting and 15 minutes preparing his/her spells while in contact with the earth, the Sorcerer may add his/her Constitution modifier to his/her Charisma modifier for determining bonus Sorcerer spell slots. Dwarven Racial Substitution Races of Stone, Pg 147 That what you were thinking of???
Lotus Crane 05-25-07, 02:14 AM	Earth Meditation Dwarven Racial Substitution Races of Stone, Pg 147 Wow, I'd almost be tempted to call that ability brokenly good, but I guess because 1) it only adds Con for the purpose of bonus spells, not save DC, 2) it causes him to know 1 less 4th level spell, perhaps it's acceptable.
Borris 05-25-07, 03:59 AM	It's far from broken. Note that you add your Constitution bonus to your Charisma score. Let's take a 9th-level dwarf sorcerer with Constition and Charisma scores of 18 (after racial modifiers, level bonuses, and stat enhancing items). He'd only add +4 (his Con modifier) to his Charisma score, giving him an effective Cha score of 22 instead of 18, and a modifier of +6 instead of +4. That means one extra 1st, 2nd, 5th, and 6th-level spell per day. Of course, at that level, he doesn't even get 5th or 6th-level spells, so half of the actual bonus is irrelevent until later. At high-level, the most you could realisticly win is one extra spell of each of your two highest spell levels. You could get the same with two feats. But then, winning back that 4th-level spell you lost would also be worth a feat. Is that a good deal in the end? Of course, but you'd better be winning something if you choose to play a sorcerer with a race that has a Charisma penalty.
Solmyr 05-25-07, 04:01 AM	It's far from broken. Note that you add your Constitution bonus to your Charisma score. Actually no, according to the description posted above you add your Con bonus and your Cha bonus together, scores don't enter into it.
Alon D'ar 05-25-07, 04:07 AM	Wish I knew about this when I played a Dwarven Sorcerer.
Borris 05-25-07, 04:23 AM	To quote Races of Stone (emphasis mine):If the dwarf sorcerer spends his 8 hours of rest and 15 minutes of concentration to prepare his spells whil ein contact with the ground, his can add his constitution bonus (if any) to his Charisma score to determine his bonus sorcerer spell slots.
runestar 05-25-07, 06:30 AM	There are a race of dwarves with a dex penalty instead of a cha penalty. Are they eligible for said prc?
The_Shaman 05-25-07, 06:35 AM	I don't see why not (gold dwarves, iirc). In the FR books, it was iirc mentioned that the "baby boom" they experienced awhile ago has led to a few more sorcerers coming out.
Ecalsneerg 05-25-07, 06:36 AM	There are a race of dwarves with a dex penalty instead of a cha penalty. Are they eligible for said prc? It's not a PrC, it's a system where certain levels of a class are swapped out for race-appropriate ones. You can find kobold ones somewhere on the main site. And I assume they qualify for it as long as they are Dwarves. Well, I assume so.
Metafictional 05-25-07, 07:16 AM	Same goes for the Dream Dwarves also found in Races of Stone, although they lose some of the special Dwarven abiliites (such as saving throw bonuses). I played a Dream Dwarf substitution Sorcerer, those guys rock, although I wish I'd seen the Metamagic ability in PHB II, I think that would have been more useful than DR 1/Adamantine. That having been said, the bonus to range for having both you and your target in contact with the ground is amazing.
StevenO 05-25-07, 06:46 PM	1. A very widely acknowledged "fact" is not always true. Look at the ancients which thought the world was flat. 2. Apparently this does have some truth although I don't call it widely known. I don't know its specifics (namely what it cost to aquire) but it seems you add your Con modifier to your Cha Score for determining bonus slots. This generally should NOT be a problem as Sorcerer already have a large number of slots so an extra one at a few spells levels shouldn't overpower a character (although it does't hurt) and secondly it shouldn't be too easy to get great Con and Cha scores for a Dwarf unless using obscene point buy or rolling methods. For a dwarf starting stats of Con 16, Cha 16 normally cost 22 points for PB which doesn't leave much for everything else.
Mr_Teapot 05-26-07, 09:15 AM	Ok, i know this is supposedly a very widely acknowledged fact, but i have not been able to find the page in any of the books ive looked through that say that "A dwarven sorcerer adds its constitution modifier to its charisma score" if this is really true can you please point out the book and page for me? Thankyou Not in any WotC book, but I know I saw this ability for a feat in some third party book about dwarves. I think it was Hammer and Helm from Green Ronin (http://www.greenronin.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1001&Product_Code=grr1101&Category_Code=7). As noted, the ability would be quite powerful.
Forgember 05-27-07, 05:30 AM	If you wana play a Dwarven Sorcerer without a Cha penalty, without being a dirty money grubbing Gold Dwarf or some other wierd Dwarf incarnation just ask if you can start play Venerable. Sure you get -6 Str, Dex and Con but your gaining +3 Int, Wis and Cha, not to mention the fun of playing a crochity old Dwarf. I made a char like this myself where he lived his entire life denying he had magical abilitys, once he was old and no one payed much attention to him it was time to hit the road and cast some spells. Here are some example Stats for lvl 1 Dwarf Sorcerer: Str 4 Dex 6 Con 10 Int 11 Wis 11 Cha 19 (28 pt buy). Give it a try sometime its a blast.;)
Seldriss 05-28-07, 09:21 AM	Wow, with a score of 4 in Strength you must travel light...
Forgember 05-29-07, 02:55 AM	Yeah I took eschew materials so he didnt even have a spell component pouch.