ECl of Lilitu [Archive] - Wizards Community

ECl of Lilitu [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
strenoth
02-10-08, 09:21 PM Alright, here's my work on the subject:

14 outsider HD, and 9 levels of clerical spell casting using CHA instead.

so 9 of her HD are 1-for-1 at least as good as a cleric, one of the 2 most powerful classes in the core books. We'll be generous and call it even value, as she will be effectively poorly multi-classed with the other HD and LA.

5 more 'just outsider' HD we'll call worth 4 levels, using a certain ECL calculator's rule of outsider or dragon HD * 0.8 for value relative to a PC class level.

Current LA: 0 (-1) / ECL: 14 (ECL is never less than HD, LA is never less than 0)

Ability scores:
Str:+6 Dex:+16 Con:+8 INT:+8 WIS:+10 CHA:+20

+20 to primary casting/SLA/SU stat. Ouch. The Str is almost meaningless to this character, so ignoring it. Total stat modifier is +62, ignoring STR. hmm, i do not recall the ECL calculator's rule for this, I'm going to go by feel here, and call it +6.

Current LA: +5 / ECL: 19

Spell Like Abilities: Mmm, I'm thinking +2

Item use: So abusable, it HAS to be a +1, as seemingly minor as it is at first glance. And that's being nice. Auto-success Use Magic Item w/o any ranks in it! the uses for wands, staves, and scroll are unlimited, and you can use any magic item as if you were any alignment or class. She can wield a Holy Avenger w/o any problems, as if she was a LG paladin!

Lilitu's gift and Shroud alignment I'll wrap together to call a full +1 LA. Both circumstantially powerful, but not at all useful in others.

The poison is pretty potent, call it +1 by itself

tanari Abilities: +2(?)

+8 NA: +1

Vulnerability to Divine magic: balanced into being generous with LA else where, no modifier.

LA: +13 / ECL 27, before looking at synergies or lack there of.

thoughts/critiques?
Zookeeper
02-12-08, 08:54 PM I believe your looking at this wrong. At 14HD +LA she has the spells of a 9th level cleric. NOT 14HD + 9HD Cleric +LA

I think your original calc of HD*0.8
14*0.8 = 11 (but is never less than HD so 14 ECL)

In the write up it states "Like her lesser cousins the Succubi (LA +6) ..."

The succubi has similar stats, spell-like abilities, tanari abilities, etc.
Add the poison and Gift, etc. I would guess LA around +8 or +9

In fact the Succubi has higher stat adjustments (+26 on CHA ex.)

So, in conclusion I would think HD 14 / LA +8 / ECL 22 JMHO.
strenoth
02-13-08, 02:16 AM well, if you look what I did, i folded the 9 levels of spellcasting intot he HD, thus upgrading the first 9 HD to worth 1 class level. Then the rest of the HD I valued at 0.8 value, which is why after calculating with caster levels, my ECL is still only 13 (but minimum value 14).

But if the succubus is +6 total LA, then my stat adjustment LA for the lilitu is way off. *ponders* Hmm, consider it +3 LA, which drops my adjustment to LA 24 (where your calculation has it at 22)

so now we are closer.. any other suggestions?
Zookeeper
02-14-08, 08:01 PM well, if you look what I did, i folded the 9 levels of spellcasting intot he HD, thus upgrading the first 9 HD to worth 1 class level. Then the rest of the HD I valued at 0.8 value, which is why after calculating with caster levels, my ECL is still only 13 (but minimum value 14).

But if the succubus is +6 total LA, then my stat adjustment LA for the lilitu is way off. *ponders* Hmm, consider it +3 LA, which drops my adjustment to LA 24 (where your calculation has it at 22)

so now we are closer.. any other suggestions?

Sorry, Misread the original post.

You also need to realize that the Tanari Abilities, and Spell-Like abilities are part of that +6 LA for the Succubi. Those you have at +2 each - now there are a few more spell-like abilities for the Lilitu, so maybe drop to +1 for those additional abilities.

Oh BTW I was incorrect in my original post the CHA for a Succubi is +16 -I looked at the total stat instead of the bonus.

The actual stat adjustments for the Succubi are still close except for DEX
STR +4, DEX +4, CON +4, INT +6 WIS +6, CHA +16
which is still impressive for a 6HD creature with a +6 LA.

In conclusion I think your calcs were a little closer, just a little exagerated -
maybe HD 14 / +10 LA / 24 ECL is correct.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
strenoth 02-10-08, 09:21 PM	Alright, here's my work on the subject: 14 outsider HD, and 9 levels of clerical spell casting using CHA instead. so 9 of her HD are 1-for-1 at least as good as a cleric, one of the 2 most powerful classes in the core books. We'll be generous and call it even value, as she will be effectively poorly multi-classed with the other HD and LA. 5 more 'just outsider' HD we'll call worth 4 levels, using a certain ECL calculator's rule of outsider or dragon HD * 0.8 for value relative to a PC class level. Current LA: 0 (-1) / ECL: 14 (ECL is never less than HD, LA is never less than 0) Ability scores: Str:+6 Dex:+16 Con:+8 INT:+8 WIS:+10 CHA:+20 +20 to primary casting/SLA/SU stat. Ouch. The Str is almost meaningless to this character, so ignoring it. Total stat modifier is +62, ignoring STR. hmm, i do not recall the ECL calculator's rule for this, I'm going to go by feel here, and call it +6. Current LA: +5 / ECL: 19 Spell Like Abilities: Mmm, I'm thinking +2 Item use: So abusable, it HAS to be a +1, as seemingly minor as it is at first glance. And that's being nice. Auto-success Use Magic Item w/o any ranks in it! the uses for wands, staves, and scroll are unlimited, and you can use any magic item as if you were any alignment or class. She can wield a Holy Avenger w/o any problems, as if she was a LG paladin! Lilitu's gift and Shroud alignment I'll wrap together to call a full +1 LA. Both circumstantially powerful, but not at all useful in others. The poison is pretty potent, call it +1 by itself tanari Abilities: +2(?) +8 NA: +1 Vulnerability to Divine magic: balanced into being generous with LA else where, no modifier. LA: +13 / ECL 27, before looking at synergies or lack there of. thoughts/critiques?
Zookeeper 02-12-08, 08:54 PM	I believe your looking at this wrong. At 14HD +LA she has the spells of a 9th level cleric. NOT 14HD + 9HD Cleric +LA I think your original calc of HD0.8 140.8 = 11 (but is never less than HD so 14 ECL) In the write up it states "Like her lesser cousins the Succubi (LA +6) ..." The succubi has similar stats, spell-like abilities, tanari abilities, etc. Add the poison and Gift, etc. I would guess LA around +8 or +9 In fact the Succubi has higher stat adjustments (+26 on CHA ex.) So, in conclusion I would think HD 14 / LA +8 / ECL 22 JMHO.
strenoth 02-13-08, 02:16 AM	well, if you look what I did, i folded the 9 levels of spellcasting intot he HD, thus upgrading the first 9 HD to worth 1 class level. Then the rest of the HD I valued at 0.8 value, which is why after calculating with caster levels, my ECL is still only 13 (but minimum value 14). But if the succubus is +6 total LA, then my stat adjustment LA for the lilitu is way off. ponders Hmm, consider it +3 LA, which drops my adjustment to LA 24 (where your calculation has it at 22) so now we are closer.. any other suggestions?
Zookeeper 02-14-08, 08:01 PM	well, if you look what I did, i folded the 9 levels of spellcasting intot he HD, thus upgrading the first 9 HD to worth 1 class level. Then the rest of the HD I valued at 0.8 value, which is why after calculating with caster levels, my ECL is still only 13 (but minimum value 14). But if the succubus is +6 total LA, then my stat adjustment LA for the lilitu is way off. ponders Hmm, consider it +3 LA, which drops my adjustment to LA 24 (where your calculation has it at 22) so now we are closer.. any other suggestions? Sorry, Misread the original post. You also need to realize that the Tanari Abilities, and Spell-Like abilities are part of that +6 LA for the Succubi. Those you have at +2 each - now there are a few more spell-like abilities for the Lilitu, so maybe drop to +1 for those additional abilities. Oh BTW I was incorrect in my original post the CHA for a Succubi is +16 -I looked at the total stat instead of the bonus. The actual stat adjustments for the Succubi are still close except for DEX STR +4, DEX +4, CON +4, INT +6 WIS +6, CHA +16 which is still impressive for a 6HD creature with a +6 LA. In conclusion I think your calcs were a little closer, just a little exagerated - maybe HD 14 / +10 LA / 24 ECL is correct.