ECLs for a few races... [Archive] - Wizards Community

ECLs for a few races... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shautora
09-04-07, 10:17 PM Hey I was wondering about the ECLs for a few races, bc the DMG simply lists the LA as "--", and I'm pretty sure thats not a none. Anyway, so would anyone have some guesses as the the ECLs of the following?

Balor
Pit Fiend
Planetar
Solar
Titan

Thanx a bunch!
bluelighter0
09-04-07, 10:51 PM LA: - or just a lack of LA on the stat block means that race is unsuitable for Player Characters. Basically, the designers couldn't find a middle ground between a high enough LA to justify the abilities and power, and a low enough LA that anyone could or would ever play it. So they took the quick and easy path and just made it unplayable. Savage Species has information on making progressions that would allow a player to use one of those races in a manner simmilar to taking class levels, but that requires DM ajudication, so YMMV.

~Blue
Jaxgaret
09-04-07, 10:57 PM There might be listed approximate LAs somewhere on the Internet. Try googling it up. Alternatively, there may be some splatbook out there that takes a stab at it.

I would surmise that the LA for each of those would be in the 12-16 range, by D&D benchmarks.
zeratulcraft
09-04-07, 10:58 PM In general, if it takes you over ECL20, they didn't give an LA for it, Astral Deva (or whichever is the weakest of the angels) is the highest ECL in Savage Species, at 20 before taking class levels.
ArochanoX
09-05-07, 02:38 AM I've seen Solar listed at ECL 34. I bet that that the other races you asked have similar ECL.
Amaril
09-05-07, 07:37 AM Edit: Never mind.
Jaxgaret
09-05-07, 09:32 AM I've seen Solar listed at ECL 34. I bet that that the other races you asked have similar ECL.

That would make it LA +12. Sounds about right.
Shautora
09-05-07, 12:19 PM That would make it LA +12. Sounds about right.

Thats the LA for Shiradi, that sounds about right.

So that's one down and four more to go:)
Shautora
09-05-07, 12:23 PM In general, if it takes you over ECL20, they didn't give an LA for it, Astral Deva (or whichever is the weakest of the angels) is the highest ECL in Savage Species, at 20 before taking class levels.

I noticed this, I think its very silly. After all, they published an epic level handbook, didn't they? are they not expecting people to use it? If they won't give us the in either the MM or the ELH, where r we supposed 2 find it then?:ahem:
StevenO
09-05-07, 01:48 PM If the MM puts an Astral Deva at +8 and you accept that a Solar is +12 I'd guess the Planetar is between the two at +10 but I can see it being +11 or even +12 as well because its abilites are closer to the Solar's.

With the Balor I may say +13. The Vrock is +8 and Hezrou +9 so if you assume the LA keeps increasing with the demon's rank (Type 1, Type 2,...) that would but that Balor at +13.

I'd guess the Pit Fiend is at least as high as the Balor and probably more becaouse of wish. With Devils not even the lowly 10HD, CR9 Bone Devil has an LA listed to start comparing.
Shautora
09-06-07, 01:52 AM the thing is, u cant assume that LA increases with "rank", bc while, for example, the solar has a great many more abilities than an astral deva, it also has 10 more HD, making it already at least the equivalent of a 22nd level char. i would think that the planetar would have an LA of maybe 12 or so, like the shiradi, making it about the equivalent of a 26th level character. i buy that. but a solar if nething should have less LA than a planetar bc of its HD, it should still have a greater ECL than a planetar, but not necissarily a greater LA, it may have less. thats y its so tricky and thats y i wish they would publish the LAs. u think its 2 much 2 hope 4 that itll appear in 4th Ed?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shautora 09-04-07, 10:17 PM	Hey I was wondering about the ECLs for a few races, bc the DMG simply lists the LA as "--", and I'm pretty sure thats not a none. Anyway, so would anyone have some guesses as the the ECLs of the following? Balor Pit Fiend Planetar Solar Titan Thanx a bunch!
bluelighter0 09-04-07, 10:51 PM	LA: - or just a lack of LA on the stat block means that race is unsuitable for Player Characters. Basically, the designers couldn't find a middle ground between a high enough LA to justify the abilities and power, and a low enough LA that anyone could or would ever play it. So they took the quick and easy path and just made it unplayable. Savage Species has information on making progressions that would allow a player to use one of those races in a manner simmilar to taking class levels, but that requires DM ajudication, so YMMV. ~Blue
Jaxgaret 09-04-07, 10:57 PM	There might be listed approximate LAs somewhere on the Internet. Try googling it up. Alternatively, there may be some splatbook out there that takes a stab at it. I would surmise that the LA for each of those would be in the 12-16 range, by D&D benchmarks.
zeratulcraft 09-04-07, 10:58 PM	In general, if it takes you over ECL20, they didn't give an LA for it, Astral Deva (or whichever is the weakest of the angels) is the highest ECL in Savage Species, at 20 before taking class levels.
ArochanoX 09-05-07, 02:38 AM	I've seen Solar listed at ECL 34. I bet that that the other races you asked have similar ECL.
Amaril 09-05-07, 07:37 AM	Edit: Never mind.
Jaxgaret 09-05-07, 09:32 AM	I've seen Solar listed at ECL 34. I bet that that the other races you asked have similar ECL. That would make it LA +12. Sounds about right.
Shautora 09-05-07, 12:19 PM	That would make it LA +12. Sounds about right. Thats the LA for Shiradi, that sounds about right. So that's one down and four more to go:)
Shautora 09-05-07, 12:23 PM	In general, if it takes you over ECL20, they didn't give an LA for it, Astral Deva (or whichever is the weakest of the angels) is the highest ECL in Savage Species, at 20 before taking class levels. I noticed this, I think its very silly. After all, they published an epic level handbook, didn't they? are they not expecting people to use it? If they won't give us the in either the MM or the ELH, where r we supposed 2 find it then?:ahem:
StevenO 09-05-07, 01:48 PM	If the MM puts an Astral Deva at +8 and you accept that a Solar is +12 I'd guess the Planetar is between the two at +10 but I can see it being +11 or even +12 as well because its abilites are closer to the Solar's. With the Balor I may say +13. The Vrock is +8 and Hezrou +9 so if you assume the LA keeps increasing with the demon's rank (Type 1, Type 2,...) that would but that Balor at +13. I'd guess the Pit Fiend is at least as high as the Balor and probably more becaouse of wish. With Devils not even the lowly 10HD, CR9 Bone Devil has an LA listed to start comparing.
Shautora 09-06-07, 01:52 AM	the thing is, u cant assume that LA increases with "rank", bc while, for example, the solar has a great many more abilities than an astral deva, it also has 10 more HD, making it already at least the equivalent of a 22nd level char. i would think that the planetar would have an LA of maybe 12 or so, like the shiradi, making it about the equivalent of a 26th level character. i buy that. but a solar if nething should have less LA than a planetar bc of its HD, it should still have a greater ECL than a planetar, but not necissarily a greater LA, it may have less. thats y its so tricky and thats y i wish they would publish the LAs. u think its 2 much 2 hope 4 that itll appear in 4th Ed?