Elven Suicide Rate [Archive] - Wizards Community

Elven Suicide Rate [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
_Maximus_
12-31-07, 07:28 PM Ok, this isnt a joke. Im actually quite curious. Once an elf gets past, i dont know, maybe 500 years old its body stops working as well as it once did, it cant do as much as it could, and it just goes downhill from there. I was just wondering if anyone for some obscure reason knows the elven suicide rate over like 500 years.

I look forward to responses
TheEndIsNear
12-31-07, 07:31 PM Honestly I doubt that WoTC would ever print something like that...

It's like asking how many hours it takes for a dwarf to eat and digest it (how much time until he craps...)

No one (but us) would ever ask those questions so there is no point of putting the answer anywhere, I'd say none of them would suicide tho, theya re to proud for that...

D-End

EDIT:wait, are you a troll?
psidragon13
12-31-07, 07:43 PM The Elven mind and soul are more important then the body, and an elf wouldn't commit suicide as long as their mind worked properly. As stated before, they're too proud for that.
_Maximus_
12-31-07, 07:47 PM Yeah I was thinking there wouldnt be that many, if any, too. And I also agree that WotC would never print something like that. Just one day, I, being the inquisitive person I am, wondered of elven suicide rates. Because, frankly, if i was 600+ years old, doing nothing but reading and being an elderly figure, I would end my own life, or at least, go get myself killed :D

psidragon puts it best, i suppose my mind set is that of a human
psidragon13
12-31-07, 08:22 PM psidragon puts it best

Sigged
key
01-01-08, 04:01 AM I think it's pretty low. Since they never lose their youthful appearance, they can keep pulling in tail.
MnemonicSV
01-02-08, 03:06 AM I agree that elves and suicide generally don't mix.

Of course.. there is always "heroic self-sacrifice." I believe that an elf (being generally community-oriented good creatures) would perform an act of suicide if it were considered a selflessly compassionate act. I doubt such an extreme scenario would come up often though (putting aside epic deeds). Rare enough at least that it couldn't be a statistic. If a character were to ever ask an elf about suicide, I expect the elf would probably naturally assume you meant honourable self-sacrifice, since he would likely find any other form of elven suicide inconceivable.

That being said, an evil elf who pursues the path of eternal unlife (ie: lichdom) could be said to have commited a suicide of sorts. You do generally have to die before becoming undead after all. But again, that's hardly something that could be made a statistic.
Angel Black
01-02-08, 07:24 PM Ok, this isnt a joke. Im actually quite curious. Once an elf gets past, i dont know, maybe 500 years old its body stops working as well as it once did, it cant do as much as it could, and it just goes downhill from there. I was just wondering if anyone for some obscure reason knows the elven suicide rate over like 500 years.

I look forward to responses

By:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

Let's take 12 per 100 000 per year as a human average

0.012 % humans suicide

Let's say that elves minds are so near to the perfect peace than they got much less than that a year, lthen the average elven country could get:

0.003 % elven suicide per year

That's 1/4 of the human rate.
Orchomenos
01-03-08, 11:01 AM Angel Black,

This list doesn't distinguish causes of suicide; specifically, it's not a rate of suicide for old age.
Jarsallen
01-04-08, 11:28 AM I imagine it's pretty high for a couple reasons- 1) because they are long lived, and 2) because I don't subscribe to the one-dimensional elven culture that so many fan-boys and fan-girls seem to want.

Elves live for a long time. A really long time. That kind of life gives a person perspective.
Consider, if you will, an elf living in modern day America. He's an old elf. He watched as all of the new hope and youthful love of the 60s and 70s was turned into crass commercialism of the 80s. He watched as Vietnam took generations of the young to war. He saw millions die in Germany and the Pacific, and before that he struggled through the great depression. He watched the slaughter of the Native Americans and brother fight against brother in the Civil War. He may have walked over the fields of Antietam and Gettysburg.
All the while he was probably reflecting on how the revolution had such promise, but now it had fallen to ruin.
Of course, he originally came from Britain some 300 years ago when he was middle-aged. His memories of Cromwell and the atrocities committed in the middle ages and dark ages are probably worse.

Reading the history of game worlds, Elven history is rarely much more static than the history of mankind- Elven empires rise and fall, are embattled by evil forces constantly, are riven with internal strife and crass politics. The story of the elves, both in Tolkien-esque stories and in many WotC gameworlds is one of a people who are either a shadow of their former glory, or a people constantly struggling to hold onto what they have.

War is a constant in history, and suffering is a constant, but each generation rarely has to deal with the horrors of war or the misery it brings more than once or twice. Perhaps that's what allows humans to stay optimistic about the future- We don't have the perspective and awareness to recognize that the saying 'history repeats itself' is more than just a trite sentiment.

Elves have that perspective. Over and over again they watch as their people reach higher and higher, only to fail and fall spectacularly. They watch as war after war with invaders, orcs, infernal entities or each other consume their youth and embitter their old. Centuries of watching friends march off to war only to return shattered husks, centuries of loving passionately and losing everything, centuries of aspiration ruined by hours of despair, and for those that live among humans, centuries of watching time ravage and consume their peers.

I think a lot of elves lose hope after the weight of the years begins to press on them. I imagine a lot of elves act haughty and disdainful of other races as a defense mechanism- if they ever got too close, or empathized with anyone, they would only feel a greater loss when they passed. As it is, I imagine elves have to cope with their sorrow in any way they can, and suicide is probably high up on the list.
MnemonicSV
01-05-08, 01:26 AM Congratulations, that is probably the most depressing, pessimistic post I have ever read on these forums. It did get your point across though.

The other side of the coin though, is that no matter how bad things get, they do eventually get better. Good triumphs over evil, love saves the day, blah blah blah, yada yada...

This is all a very one-sided point of view, from that of an elf who chooses to only pay attention to the bad, and never the good. I would think that a race that is typically good would only feel more motivated by watching the evil around them, and gain a desire to change things for the better, not merely stand by watching as the "world rots" so-to-speak. I would also think that a race which is typically chaotic would recognize that "patterns" or cycles of war and death are merely an illusion, an unfortunate coincidence that just happens to be occuring within their lifetime. I would still further think that a race that is as long-lived as that of elves would realize that these unfortunate occurances are almost exclusively brought about by non-elf causes and races, races that are "young" by comparison and thus simply don't know any better. I would even further think that a race with such a low birthrate would come to recognize the rare preciousness of an elven life, and respect it enough not to take it away rashly.

I suppose the point I'm making is that any elf that is motivated by misery to commit suicide is an elf who has effectively forgotten his roots, forgotten the morals/ethics upon which he was raised, and has a remarkably narrow view of the world despite his remarkable lifespan. Given the archetype of the elf, it would seem this is far more uncommon than that of other races of other alignments (such as humans by comparison). While I will agree elven suicide could still occur, I still doubt it would even compare to the suicide rate of humans. It would certainly not be more common than that of the other races.
Angel Black
01-06-08, 06:18 PM Angel Black,

This list doesn't distinguish causes of suicide; specifically, it's not a rate of suicide for old age.

That's why it works.Is a global average (depressions, self-sacrifices,madness, etc,etc) so if you take a random number off you will be very near to get a "real" result :)
Silverthumb
01-07-08, 12:47 AM Would I, assuming I were an Elf(I hope that day never comes), want to commit suicide just because I'm getting old? Hell no! If I lived that long, just think about how much knowledge I'd have and how powerful my magic could be. Screw suicide, I could be a freaking Lich!

But a Good Lich, because I think Evil is stinky.
calronmoonflower
01-07-08, 02:43 AM Well, I've heard of elves sacrificing their lives to cast/create a mythril. It's in the rules somewhere that voluntarily dying reduces the DC.
Silverthumb
01-07-08, 02:50 AM Well, I've heard of elves sacrificing their lives to cast/create a mythril.

That's pretty cool. I wonder where its from, though?
Millet
01-07-08, 07:50 AM That's from Lost Empires of Faerun. From what I see of elves in the FR, life is too precious for them to commit suicide. They might go for a heroic sacrifice though.
katarl
01-07-08, 08:35 AM Elves bodies do not break down as they age- in the Races of the Wild, it states that elven bodies actually get more beautiful as they age, despite the loss of physical ability scores.

Also, aging is not a primary cause of suicide, loneliness and unemployment are the main causes. Older people are in general much happier than they were in their youth, and have much lower suicide rates, despite their often fringe status in some areas, and weakening bodies.

Remembering that elves live in communal settlements, and are revered for their considerable experience, you could expect elven satisfaction in old age to be far greater than the human equivalent.

I expect that the elven psyche would not even consider suicide, far from being .003, it would be statistically insignificant, only committing suicide in the most horrific of circumstances (such as after decades of physical and psychological torture). A further reason this statistic is improbable is measured per year, and because elf lifespans are more than 4 times a human's, the suicide rate per person actually increases!

I expect the dwarven 'slayer' approach might be more their style after being shamed or dishonoured.
Jarsallen
01-07-08, 11:39 AM The other side of the coin though, is that no matter how bad things get, they do eventually get better. Good triumphs over evil, love saves the day

I don't actually think that's true in most published gameworlds. I think the general story arc of the elves is that they are a species in decline, whose once great societies of the past once shone brightly across the world, but now are only a shadow of their former self, and the remnants of that culture cling to their last remaining bastions against the forces of change and destruction.

Sure, the histories are filled with heroic characters who sacrificed all to save their country, but if you read the timelines closely, the victories last for only a few decades before the hordes of orcs or demons come back, or the humans swap rulers and come back in a different guise under a new kingdom. A few decades just isn't that long to an elf, and consequently their lives must feel like a constant struggle.

I don't know. I imagine that elven societies ought to have a strong undercurrent of melancholy, and that the joviality of the youth should fade over the centuries to a bitter, isolationist attitude among the middle-aged and older.

Among other things, that makes elves more interesting.
smeagol_lied
01-07-08, 04:00 PM I imagine their suicide rate is directly related to how pansy they are, ergo close to 90%

But I kid, I kid. Elves seem to be swarming all over us these days.
Knute
01-07-08, 09:10 PM The perspective that life worsens after 500 is very human centric. We may see that as a very long time but it might not be to an elf. Elves might have all sorts of wonderful things that accompany living that long.

I think one of the necessary elements for an Elf is that in time he gets around to contemplating (really contemplating) his\her deity. Building a muscle memory of all the 1,000,001 elements of the Elf War Kata, Learning Entish, or contemplating the divine. Lesser races are so concerned with fleeting things that they never hear the rhythms of life. Elves live long enough to stand beside the plans of gods and comprehend them. Many joys take longer than the life of a man.

The fragile short lived creatures are like pinatas - their whole life taken up by furious conflict and need. Too soon, they burst and they never get to see the party.

Knute
Darth Syntax
01-07-08, 09:17 PM I would imagine that the suicide rate would vary from culture to culture with some being dead set against it and others having varying degrees of acceptance. One of the elven cultures (the Jaur) of a collaborative setting I have been working on have an extremely high suicide rate among those over the age of 300. This is not because they become depressed or despondent but because they (as a culture) believe it is better to step aside at the height of one's powers so as to not become a burden and to prevent their society of stagnating overmuch. It is considered right and good to end one's own life and selfish, not to mention cowardly, to waste away and die of old age. However, this mentality is by no means universal to elves, it is a practice unique to the Jaur.
Mercurius
01-07-08, 09:32 PM Elves bodies do not break down as they age- in the Races of the Wild, it states that elven bodies actually get more beautiful as they age, despite the loss of physical ability scores.

RotW also says that Elves reach physical and mental maturity at the age of 20, which means that the average level 1 PC elf must literally sit around for 100 years learning and doing nothing, since at 120-130, he's got the same skills (less, actually) than a human peer (level 1 human has extra skill points, extra feat, and the exact same class features).

Frankly, that's stupid. So RotW isn't exactly the best source of rational elf flavor text.

Regarding the topic at hand, I'd say that elves may very well contemplate suicide if they were to be maimed or otherwise crippled. Living a few decades without an arm can be a severe burden to many people... Imagine how much harder it would be to go centuries without your arm. Especially since your tree-hugger relatives all live in tree houses that require climbing to reach...
Jarsallen
01-08-08, 03:33 PM I think one of the necessary elements for an Elf is that in time he gets around to contemplating (really contemplating) his\her deity. Building a muscle memory of all the 1,000,001 elements of the Elf War Kata, Learning Entish, or contemplating the divine. Lesser races are so concerned with fleeting things that they never hear the rhythms of life. Elves live long enough to stand beside the plans of gods and comprehend them. Many joys take longer than the life of a man.

The problem with this analysis is that elves live in a world filled with other people. It would be one thing if they were all closed off societies that lived in isolation where such lengthy exercises could be performed sans interruption. But they don't.

They live in a world (most commonly, anyway) in which there's always something happening. Some elven royal family is making a play for the throne, or some clan of elves is fighting humans over logging in their forest, or orcs are invading, or some elf opened up a gate accidentally to the plane of "things which eat elves!". Elven histories as frequently described are filled with things which look very much like the trials and tribulations of mankind. The problem is that elves have to endure them for centuries.

So yeah, I'm sure some elf living on his own or part of a hippy commune somewhere can contemplate his navel for two centuries and come to a fine understanding of certain inflections in the ancient language of driftwood. But while he's been doing that his cousin down in Elftown has been beating back invasions, fighting summoned demons, watching the nobility eat each other up, and both of his sons were lost in the last war with the orcs.

Also elven society competes economically with the humans and dwarves and other species. Imagine the despair of knowing that you're going to be a cracker salter in the cracker factory for the next 800 years. You want to tell me then that you aren't going to commit suicide?
VorpalAuroch
04-05-08, 11:43 PM I don't think anything in that last post is well thought-out.

1) Elven history is described as similar to human history. While this may be true, it means that the descriptions are inaccurate. While an elf would agree that there is always something happening, in a race that lives 10 times as long things move 10 times as slow, or at least close to it.

2) For one thing, the closest thing in our world to a CG society is a hippy commune, so the number of elves descripable as "some elf living on his own or part of a hippy commune somewhere" is very high. For another, in a society where everyone lives long enough to master "all the 1,000,001 elements of the Elf War Kata," for example, if they so choose, you would not be considered a competent craftsman until you had gotten a reasonable way there. Standards would increase, and most of society would meet those standards.

3) 800 years at the cracker factory to an elf who will live to 1000 is equivalent to 80 years at the cracker factory to an= human who will live to 100. Perceived value of a commodity (time included) decreases proportionally to the amount of the commodity where the spent stuff came from. If that isn't a law of economics, it should be.

Just my $0.03 (because I definitely spent more than 2 cents of effort on that).
Bloodsoul
04-06-08, 04:16 PM Imagine how much harder it would be to go centuries without your arm. Especially since your tree-hugger relatives all live in tree houses that require climbing to reach...
Then you suck it up like a man and make that one-handed tree climbing check.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
_Maximus_ 12-31-07, 07:28 PM	Ok, this isnt a joke. Im actually quite curious. Once an elf gets past, i dont know, maybe 500 years old its body stops working as well as it once did, it cant do as much as it could, and it just goes downhill from there. I was just wondering if anyone for some obscure reason knows the elven suicide rate over like 500 years. I look forward to responses
TheEndIsNear 12-31-07, 07:31 PM	Honestly I doubt that WoTC would ever print something like that... It's like asking how many hours it takes for a dwarf to eat and digest it (how much time until he craps...) No one (but us) would ever ask those questions so there is no point of putting the answer anywhere, I'd say none of them would suicide tho, theya re to proud for that... D-End EDIT:wait, are you a troll?
psidragon13 12-31-07, 07:43 PM	The Elven mind and soul are more important then the body, and an elf wouldn't commit suicide as long as their mind worked properly. As stated before, they're too proud for that.
_Maximus_ 12-31-07, 07:47 PM	Yeah I was thinking there wouldnt be that many, if any, too. And I also agree that WotC would never print something like that. Just one day, I, being the inquisitive person I am, wondered of elven suicide rates. Because, frankly, if i was 600+ years old, doing nothing but reading and being an elderly figure, I would end my own life, or at least, go get myself killed :D psidragon puts it best, i suppose my mind set is that of a human
psidragon13 12-31-07, 08:22 PM	psidragon puts it best Sigged
key 01-01-08, 04:01 AM	I think it's pretty low. Since they never lose their youthful appearance, they can keep pulling in tail.
MnemonicSV 01-02-08, 03:06 AM	I agree that elves and suicide generally don't mix. Of course.. there is always "heroic self-sacrifice." I believe that an elf (being generally community-oriented good creatures) would perform an act of suicide if it were considered a selflessly compassionate act. I doubt such an extreme scenario would come up often though (putting aside epic deeds). Rare enough at least that it couldn't be a statistic. If a character were to ever ask an elf about suicide, I expect the elf would probably naturally assume you meant honourable self-sacrifice, since he would likely find any other form of elven suicide inconceivable. That being said, an evil elf who pursues the path of eternal unlife (ie: lichdom) could be said to have commited a suicide of sorts. You do generally have to die before becoming undead after all. But again, that's hardly something that could be made a statistic.
Angel Black 01-02-08, 07:24 PM	Ok, this isnt a joke. Im actually quite curious. Once an elf gets past, i dont know, maybe 500 years old its body stops working as well as it once did, it cant do as much as it could, and it just goes downhill from there. I was just wondering if anyone for some obscure reason knows the elven suicide rate over like 500 years. I look forward to responses By: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate Let's take 12 per 100 000 per year as a human average 0.012 % humans suicide Let's say that elves minds are so near to the perfect peace than they got much less than that a year, lthen the average elven country could get: 0.003 % elven suicide per year That's 1/4 of the human rate.
Orchomenos 01-03-08, 11:01 AM	Angel Black, This list doesn't distinguish causes of suicide; specifically, it's not a rate of suicide for old age.
Jarsallen 01-04-08, 11:28 AM	I imagine it's pretty high for a couple reasons- 1) because they are long lived, and 2) because I don't subscribe to the one-dimensional elven culture that so many fan-boys and fan-girls seem to want. Elves live for a long time. A really long time. That kind of life gives a person perspective. Consider, if you will, an elf living in modern day America. He's an old elf. He watched as all of the new hope and youthful love of the 60s and 70s was turned into crass commercialism of the 80s. He watched as Vietnam took generations of the young to war. He saw millions die in Germany and the Pacific, and before that he struggled through the great depression. He watched the slaughter of the Native Americans and brother fight against brother in the Civil War. He may have walked over the fields of Antietam and Gettysburg. All the while he was probably reflecting on how the revolution had such promise, but now it had fallen to ruin. Of course, he originally came from Britain some 300 years ago when he was middle-aged. His memories of Cromwell and the atrocities committed in the middle ages and dark ages are probably worse. Reading the history of game worlds, Elven history is rarely much more static than the history of mankind- Elven empires rise and fall, are embattled by evil forces constantly, are riven with internal strife and crass politics. The story of the elves, both in Tolkien-esque stories and in many WotC gameworlds is one of a people who are either a shadow of their former glory, or a people constantly struggling to hold onto what they have. War is a constant in history, and suffering is a constant, but each generation rarely has to deal with the horrors of war or the misery it brings more than once or twice. Perhaps that's what allows humans to stay optimistic about the future- We don't have the perspective and awareness to recognize that the saying 'history repeats itself' is more than just a trite sentiment. Elves have that perspective. Over and over again they watch as their people reach higher and higher, only to fail and fall spectacularly. They watch as war after war with invaders, orcs, infernal entities or each other consume their youth and embitter their old. Centuries of watching friends march off to war only to return shattered husks, centuries of loving passionately and losing everything, centuries of aspiration ruined by hours of despair, and for those that live among humans, centuries of watching time ravage and consume their peers. I think a lot of elves lose hope after the weight of the years begins to press on them. I imagine a lot of elves act haughty and disdainful of other races as a defense mechanism- if they ever got too close, or empathized with anyone, they would only feel a greater loss when they passed. As it is, I imagine elves have to cope with their sorrow in any way they can, and suicide is probably high up on the list.
MnemonicSV 01-05-08, 01:26 AM	Congratulations, that is probably the most depressing, pessimistic post I have ever read on these forums. It did get your point across though. The other side of the coin though, is that no matter how bad things get, they do eventually get better. Good triumphs over evil, love saves the day, blah blah blah, yada yada... This is all a very one-sided point of view, from that of an elf who chooses to only pay attention to the bad, and never the good. I would think that a race that is typically good would only feel more motivated by watching the evil around them, and gain a desire to change things for the better, not merely stand by watching as the "world rots" so-to-speak. I would also think that a race which is typically chaotic would recognize that "patterns" or cycles of war and death are merely an illusion, an unfortunate coincidence that just happens to be occuring within their lifetime. I would still further think that a race that is as long-lived as that of elves would realize that these unfortunate occurances are almost exclusively brought about by non-elf causes and races, races that are "young" by comparison and thus simply don't know any better. I would even further think that a race with such a low birthrate would come to recognize the rare preciousness of an elven life, and respect it enough not to take it away rashly. I suppose the point I'm making is that any elf that is motivated by misery to commit suicide is an elf who has effectively forgotten his roots, forgotten the morals/ethics upon which he was raised, and has a remarkably narrow view of the world despite his remarkable lifespan. Given the archetype of the elf, it would seem this is far more uncommon than that of other races of other alignments (such as humans by comparison). While I will agree elven suicide could still occur, I still doubt it would even compare to the suicide rate of humans. It would certainly not be more common than that of the other races.
Angel Black 01-06-08, 06:18 PM	Angel Black, This list doesn't distinguish causes of suicide; specifically, it's not a rate of suicide for old age. That's why it works.Is a global average (depressions, self-sacrifices,madness, etc,etc) so if you take a random number off you will be very near to get a "real" result :)
Silverthumb 01-07-08, 12:47 AM	Would I, assuming I were an Elf(I hope that day never comes), want to commit suicide just because I'm getting old? Hell no! If I lived that long, just think about how much knowledge I'd have and how powerful my magic could be. Screw suicide, I could be a freaking Lich! But a Good Lich, because I think Evil is stinky.
calronmoonflower 01-07-08, 02:43 AM	Well, I've heard of elves sacrificing their lives to cast/create a mythril. It's in the rules somewhere that voluntarily dying reduces the DC.
Silverthumb 01-07-08, 02:50 AM	Well, I've heard of elves sacrificing their lives to cast/create a mythril. That's pretty cool. I wonder where its from, though?
Millet 01-07-08, 07:50 AM	That's from Lost Empires of Faerun. From what I see of elves in the FR, life is too precious for them to commit suicide. They might go for a heroic sacrifice though.
katarl 01-07-08, 08:35 AM	Elves bodies do not break down as they age- in the Races of the Wild, it states that elven bodies actually get more beautiful as they age, despite the loss of physical ability scores. Also, aging is not a primary cause of suicide, loneliness and unemployment are the main causes. Older people are in general much happier than they were in their youth, and have much lower suicide rates, despite their often fringe status in some areas, and weakening bodies. Remembering that elves live in communal settlements, and are revered for their considerable experience, you could expect elven satisfaction in old age to be far greater than the human equivalent. I expect that the elven psyche would not even consider suicide, far from being .003, it would be statistically insignificant, only committing suicide in the most horrific of circumstances (such as after decades of physical and psychological torture). A further reason this statistic is improbable is measured per year, and because elf lifespans are more than 4 times a human's, the suicide rate per person actually increases! I expect the dwarven 'slayer' approach might be more their style after being shamed or dishonoured.
Jarsallen 01-07-08, 11:39 AM	The other side of the coin though, is that no matter how bad things get, they do eventually get better. Good triumphs over evil, love saves the day I don't actually think that's true in most published gameworlds. I think the general story arc of the elves is that they are a species in decline, whose once great societies of the past once shone brightly across the world, but now are only a shadow of their former self, and the remnants of that culture cling to their last remaining bastions against the forces of change and destruction. Sure, the histories are filled with heroic characters who sacrificed all to save their country, but if you read the timelines closely, the victories last for only a few decades before the hordes of orcs or demons come back, or the humans swap rulers and come back in a different guise under a new kingdom. A few decades just isn't that long to an elf, and consequently their lives must feel like a constant struggle. I don't know. I imagine that elven societies ought to have a strong undercurrent of melancholy, and that the joviality of the youth should fade over the centuries to a bitter, isolationist attitude among the middle-aged and older. Among other things, that makes elves more interesting.
smeagol_lied 01-07-08, 04:00 PM	I imagine their suicide rate is directly related to how pansy they are, ergo close to 90% But I kid, I kid. Elves seem to be swarming all over us these days.
Knute 01-07-08, 09:10 PM	The perspective that life worsens after 500 is very human centric. We may see that as a very long time but it might not be to an elf. Elves might have all sorts of wonderful things that accompany living that long. I think one of the necessary elements for an Elf is that in time he gets around to contemplating (really contemplating) his\her deity. Building a muscle memory of all the 1,000,001 elements of the Elf War Kata, Learning Entish, or contemplating the divine. Lesser races are so concerned with fleeting things that they never hear the rhythms of life. Elves live long enough to stand beside the plans of gods and comprehend them. Many joys take longer than the life of a man. The fragile short lived creatures are like pinatas - their whole life taken up by furious conflict and need. Too soon, they burst and they never get to see the party. Knute
Darth Syntax 01-07-08, 09:17 PM	I would imagine that the suicide rate would vary from culture to culture with some being dead set against it and others having varying degrees of acceptance. One of the elven cultures (the Jaur) of a collaborative setting I have been working on have an extremely high suicide rate among those over the age of 300. This is not because they become depressed or despondent but because they (as a culture) believe it is better to step aside at the height of one's powers so as to not become a burden and to prevent their society of stagnating overmuch. It is considered right and good to end one's own life and selfish, not to mention cowardly, to waste away and die of old age. However, this mentality is by no means universal to elves, it is a practice unique to the Jaur.
Mercurius 01-07-08, 09:32 PM	Elves bodies do not break down as they age- in the Races of the Wild, it states that elven bodies actually get more beautiful as they age, despite the loss of physical ability scores. RotW also says that Elves reach physical and mental maturity at the age of 20, which means that the average level 1 PC elf must literally sit around for 100 years learning and doing nothing, since at 120-130, he's got the same skills (less, actually) than a human peer (level 1 human has extra skill points, extra feat, and the exact same class features). Frankly, that's stupid. So RotW isn't exactly the best source of rational elf flavor text. Regarding the topic at hand, I'd say that elves may very well contemplate suicide if they were to be maimed or otherwise crippled. Living a few decades without an arm can be a severe burden to many people... Imagine how much harder it would be to go centuries without your arm. Especially since your tree-hugger relatives all live in tree houses that require climbing to reach...
Jarsallen 01-08-08, 03:33 PM	I think one of the necessary elements for an Elf is that in time he gets around to contemplating (really contemplating) his\her deity. Building a muscle memory of all the 1,000,001 elements of the Elf War Kata, Learning Entish, or contemplating the divine. Lesser races are so concerned with fleeting things that they never hear the rhythms of life. Elves live long enough to stand beside the plans of gods and comprehend them. Many joys take longer than the life of a man. The problem with this analysis is that elves live in a world filled with other people. It would be one thing if they were all closed off societies that lived in isolation where such lengthy exercises could be performed sans interruption. But they don't. They live in a world (most commonly, anyway) in which there's always something happening. Some elven royal family is making a play for the throne, or some clan of elves is fighting humans over logging in their forest, or orcs are invading, or some elf opened up a gate accidentally to the plane of "things which eat elves!". Elven histories as frequently described are filled with things which look very much like the trials and tribulations of mankind. The problem is that elves have to endure them for centuries. So yeah, I'm sure some elf living on his own or part of a hippy commune somewhere can contemplate his navel for two centuries and come to a fine understanding of certain inflections in the ancient language of driftwood. But while he's been doing that his cousin down in Elftown has been beating back invasions, fighting summoned demons, watching the nobility eat each other up, and both of his sons were lost in the last war with the orcs. Also elven society competes economically with the humans and dwarves and other species. Imagine the despair of knowing that you're going to be a cracker salter in the cracker factory for the next 800 years. You want to tell me then that you aren't going to commit suicide?
VorpalAuroch 04-05-08, 11:43 PM	I don't think anything in that last post is well thought-out. 1) Elven history is described as similar to human history. While this may be true, it means that the descriptions are inaccurate. While an elf would agree that there is always something happening, in a race that lives 10 times as long things move 10 times as slow, or at least close to it. 2) For one thing, the closest thing in our world to a CG society is a hippy commune, so the number of elves descripable as "some elf living on his own or part of a hippy commune somewhere" is very high. For another, in a society where everyone lives long enough to master "all the 1,000,001 elements of the Elf War Kata," for example, if they so choose, you would not be considered a competent craftsman until you had gotten a reasonable way there. Standards would increase, and most of society would meet those standards. 3) 800 years at the cracker factory to an elf who will live to 1000 is equivalent to 80 years at the cracker factory to an= human who will live to 100. Perceived value of a commodity (time included) decreases proportionally to the amount of the commodity where the spent stuff came from. If that isn't a law of economics, it should be. Just my $0.03 (because I definitely spent more than 2 cents of effort on that).
Bloodsoul 04-06-08, 04:16 PM	Imagine how much harder it would be to go centuries without your arm. Especially since your tree-hugger relatives all live in tree houses that require climbing to reach... Then you suck it up like a man and make that one-handed tree climbing check.