Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Silversheen197 10-23-07, 05:55 PM	Hey guys, I've made up a new Campaign setting that I think I'm going to use as my main campaign setting from now on, and in this setting, elves work a bit differently. I could use some help making sure that LAs are smack dab on target. Anyway, there are six species of elves, which are Averial are the wind elves, often called winged or sky elves. Personality: Averials are a quiet and introspective race of elves, and often spend days on end simply riding the winds, meditating. They are always willing to share their wisdom with other sentient creatures, but finding an averial to speak with is often difficult, thanks mostly to their choice of habitation. Physical Description: Averials stand about six feet high. They are very pale, but do not appear unhealthily so; their skin is usually a creamy color of pale. Their hair can range from white to silver or grey, and sometimes a very light blue. They have a large pair of feathered wings that spread from their shoulders, with feather patterns that mimic those of normal birds. They are slender (weighing on average only 75 pounds), and are known for their beauty. Alignment: Averial value freedom, and do not hold very strongly to rules, but are very respectful of life and other creatures, meaning they tend strongly towards chaotic good. Averial Lands: Averial tend to build their cities on high cliffs that are almost impossible to approach without flying. Their buildings almost never have ceilings, so that the averials can come and go as they please. Language: Averials speak Auran, but most also learn Common, Elven, and sometimes Solarin. AVERIAL RACIAL TRAITS -Fey (Wind): Averials are Fey with the Wind subtype, meaning they cannot be affected by spells that affect humanoids. -+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Con: Averials are agile and beautiful, but their bones are hollow, meaning they can't withstand much damage. -Medium -Averial base land speed is 30 feet. Averials also have wings and can fly at a speed of 80 feet with good maneuverability. -Low-light vision: Averials can see three times as well as a human in low-light conditions. -Averials are immune to enchantment and sleep effects. -Racial Hit Dice: An averial begins with three levels of Fey, which provide 3d6 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +1, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +1, Ref +3, and Will +3. -Racial Skills: An averial's fey levels give it skill points equal to 6 X (6 + Int modifier). Its class skills are coming soon. -Racial Feats: An averial's fey levels give it two feats. In addition, an averial gains Weapon Focus with one of its racial weapons as a bonus feat. -Spells: An averial with a Charisma score of 10 or higher (after ability score modifications) can cast spells as a 2nd-level sorcerer. -Fey Glamour: While flying, the image of an averial ripples through the wind, creating a blur effect around her. This effect also occurs when the averial is in heavy winds. An averial is never affected by wind affects. -An averial has a +2 racial bonus on Listen checks. -An averial has a +4 racial bonus on Search checks, and an averial that passes within 5 feet of a concealed door or compartment may immediately make a Search check to find it as if they were actively searching for it. -An averial has a +8 racial bonus on Spot checks. -Averials are automatically proficient with quarterstaffs, longbows, daggers, and short bows. -Automatic Languages: Common, Auran. Bonus Languages: Elven, Aquan, Solarin, Celestial, Draconic. -Favored Class: Monk *please note that the lawful requirement has been removed for monks in this setting* -Level Adjustment: +1?? Drow are sinister and malicious elves that lurk in the underground. They are often called dark elves or night elves, but they are also often known as their formal name. Personality: Drow are evil in the extreme. They care only for themselves, and their society values three things above all else: strength, intelligence, and drow blood. Those without drow blood are either killed or taken as slaves. Drow often rate how well they're doing in society by how many slaves he owns. Physical Description: Drow men stand nearly six and a half feet tall, and females are usually five and a half feet. They are well muscled, and extremely tough, but they tend to not be exceptionally agile. Their skin is either pure black, or extremely dark, iron grey. Their hair, in contrast, is almost always pure white, and their eyes are merely orbs of milky white swirls. Although extremely attractive, drow are often quite crude. Alignment: Drow are almost always evil, but have no usual tendencies towards either law or chaos. Drow Lands: Drow live deep underground, in cities carved out of stone. They often live in the same areas as dwarves, which means the two races often come into conflict. Because of their amazing night vision, drow cities are usually lit by single candles as streetlights, which shed enough light for a drow to see for quite some distance. Language: Drow speak Undercommon, but most also learn Common, Elven, and sometimes Infernal. DROW RACIAL TRAITS -Fey (Evil): Drow are Fey with the Evil subtype, meaning they cannot be affected by spells that affect humanoids. -+2 Str, +2 Con, +4 Int, -2 Dex, -2 Wis, -4 Cha: Drow are strong and tough, as well as extremely intelligent, but they often lack agility, and are unobservent and crude. -Medium -Drow base land speed is 30 feet. +1 natural armor bonus. -Darkvision: Drow can see in total darkness (even magical darkness) out to 150 feet. Darkvision is black-and-white only, but is otherwise the same as normal sight. -Low-light vision: Drow can see three times as well as a human in low-light conditions. -Drow are immune to enchantment and sleep effects. -Spell Resistance: Drow have spell resistance equal to 11 + their Hit Dice. -A drow has a +2 racial bonus on Will saves against spells and spell-like abilities. -Racial Hit Dice: A drow begins with three levels of Fey, which provide 3d6 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +1, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +1, Ref +3, and Will +3. -Racial Skills: A drow's fey levels give it skill points equal to 6 X (6 + Int modifier). Its class skills are coming soon. -Racial Feats: A drow's fey levels give it two feats. In addition, a drow gains Weapon Focus with one of its racial weapons as a bonus feat. -Spells: A drow with an Intelligence score of 10 or higher (after ability score modifications) can cast spells as a 4th-level wizard. -Spell-Like Abilities: 2/day-darkness, inflict light wounds, hold person. Caster level equals the drow's Hit Dice. The save DCs are Intelligence-based. -Fey Glamour: In any condition of illumination other than full daylight, a drow can disappear into the shadows, giving him total concealment. Artificial illumination, even a light or continual flame spell, does not negate this ability. A daylight spell, however, will. -A drow has a +2 racial bonus on Listen checks. -A drow has a +4 racial bonus on Search and Spot checks, and a drow that passes within 5 feet of a concealed door or compartment may immediately make a Search check to find it as if they were actively searching for it. -A drow has a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. -A drow is automatically proficient with gurisarmes, spiked chains, shuriken, and greatswords. -Automatic Languages: Common, Undercommon. Bonus Languages: Elven, Ignian, Terran, Solarin, Infernal, Draconic. -Favored Class: Wizard -Level Adjustment: +2?? Maenads are fire elves, often called sand elves. Personality: Maenads are an extremely emotional race. They live in the moment, doing whatever feels good at the time. They never feel anything halfway. When a maenad is happy, he laughs boisterously, and when he's angry, he tries his hardest to kill the one who has made him angry. The selfishness of their impulsive actions are of no concern for them. Physical Description: Maenads, both male and female, stand just under six feet tall. They are powerfully muscled and lithe. Their skin ranges from a deep, shiny bronze to a light brown, and their hair is the vibrant color of flames, ranging from orange to red, or sometimes even fiery blue. Alignment: Because of their impulsive and emotional nature, maenads tend strongly towards chaos, and their selfishness leads them towards evil. Maenad Lands: Meanads live in the deserts of Anuria in nomadic tribes that make a living as raiders. Tribes are ruled by a sheik, but the presence of a sheik does little to instill order in the maenads, and sheiks are changed often. Language: Maenads speak Ignean, but many also learn Common, Elven, Undercommon, or Aquan. MAENAD RACIAL TRAITS -Fey (Fire): Maenads are Fey with the Fire subtype, meaning they cannot be affected by spells that affect humanoids, are immune to fire, but take +50% damage from effects that deal cold damage. -+2 Str, +2 Int, -2 Wis: Meanads are powerful and intelligent, but they are not incredibly observant. -Medium -Meanad base land speed is 30 feet. -Low-light vision: Maenads can see three times as well as a human in low-light conditions. -Maenads are immune to enchantment and sleep effects. -Racial Hit Dice: A maenad begins with three levels of Fey, which provide 3d6 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +1, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +1, Ref +3, and Will +3. -Racial Skills: A maenad's fey levels give it skill points equal to 6 X (6 + Int modifier). Its class skills are coming soon. -Racial Feats: A maenad's fey levels give it two feats. In addition, a maenad gains Weapon Focus with one of its racial weapons as a bonus feat. -Spells: A maenad with a Intelligence score of 10 or higher (after ability score modifications) can cast spells as a 2nd-level wizard. -Fey Glamour: Whenever the temperature is hot or hotter, a maenad’s image twists in the heat like a mirage, creating a blur effect around him. This effect also occurs after a maenad has been exposed to a spell or effect that deals fire damage, and lasts for 1 round per 5 points of fire damage the maenad was exposed to (minimum 1 round). -A maenad has a +2 racial bonus on Listen checks. -A maenad has a +4 racial bonus on Search and Spot checks, and a maenad that passes within 5 feet of a concealed door or compartment may immediately make a Search check to find it as if they were actively searching for it. -A maenad has a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks. -Maenads are automatically proficient with scimitars, crescent battle fans, flachions, and crescent scythes. -Automatic Languages: Common, Ignian. Bonus Languages: Elven, Terran, Undercommon, Infernal, Draconic. -Favored Class: Ranger -Level Adjustment: +1?? Merlen are water elves, usually called sea elves. Personality: ... Physical Description: Merlan males are about five and a half feet tall, while females are only five feet tall. Their skin is tinged blue, like the oceans in which they live, and their hair ranges from seafoam green to a color similar to seaweed. They are graceful end elegant, and have a haunting beauty. Alignment: Merlen place very high importance on tradition and government, and so tend towards law, and they have a high amount of respect for life, they prefer good. Merlan Lands: Merlen live in large, underwater cities made of coral. These cities can stretch for miles across the seabed. Language: Merlen speak Aquan, but most also learn Common, Elven, and sometimes Solarin. MERLAN RACIAL TRAITS -Fey (Water): Merlen are Fey with the Water subtype, meaning they cannot be affected by spells that affect humanoids, and can breathe in both water and air. -+2 Wis, +2 Cha, -2 Str: Merlen are wise and social, but spending their lives bouyied in water requires them to develop less physical strength than surface creatures. -Medium -Merlan base land speed is 30 feet. Merlen can also swim with a speed of 50 feet. -Low-light vision: Merlen can see three times as well as a human in low-light conditions. -Merlen are immune to enchantment and sleep effects. -Racial Hit Dice: A merlan begins with three levels of Fey, which provide 3d6 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +1, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +1, Ref +3, and Will +3. -Racial Skills: A merlan's fey levels give it skill points equal to 6 X (6 + Int modifier). Its class skills are coming soon. -Racial Feats: A merlan's fey levels give it two feats. In addition, a merlan gains Weapon Focus with one of its racial weapons as a bonus feat. -Spells: A merlan with a Charisma score of 10 or higher (after ability score modifications) can cast spells as a 2nd-level sorcerer. -Fey Glamour: Whenever a merlan is submerged in water, her body appears to become translucent, giving her a +10 bonus on Hide checks, and allowing her to Hide even when there is nothing to provide cover or concealment. The merlan gains this bonus whenever submerged up to at least her hips. -A merlan has a +2 racial bonus on Listen checks. -A merlan has a +4 racial bonus on Search and Spot checks, and a merlan that passes within 5 feet of a concealed door or compartment may immediately make a Search check to find it as if they were actively searching for it. -A merlan has a +8 racial bonus on Swim checks. -Merlen are automatically proficient with rapiers, harpoons, short swords, and tridents. -Automatic Languages: Common, Aquan. Bonus Languages: Elven, Auran, Solarin, Celestial, Draconic. -Favored Class: Paladin -Level Adjustment: +1?? Sun elves are the light elves. Personality: Sun elves are simplistic and calm, and very in tune with their own emotions and the emotions of others. They are not very intelligent, and rely mostly on hunches and intuition instead of logic, which works very well for them. They value all life, and are loathe to take a life. Even though sun elves are not intelligent, they possess a hereditary pool of knowledge that contains small amount of the memories of all the elf's ancestors that both parents pass on to their children. Because of this, sun elves have an increased knowledge of magical and historical lore. Physical Description: Sun elves stand about five feet tall. Their skin continuously shines with an inner light, and is a burning golden color. Their hair can be of any color of the rainbow, and also refracts light like a prism. Their eyes are usually of an opposite color as their hair. Alignment: Sun elves are almost always good, but have no usual tendencies towards either law or chaos. Sun Elf Lands: Sun elves have no specific lands of their own, although they prefer natural settings, usually light woods, much like wyldfae do. They form communities wherever they can, but such villages are extremely rare. Language: Sun elves speak Solarin, but most also learn Common, Elven, and sometimes Celestial. SUN ELF RACIAL TRAITS -Fey (Good): Sun elves are Fey with the Good subtype, meaning they cannot be affected by spells that affect humanoids. -+2 Dex, +2 Wis, +4 Cha, -2 Str, -2 Con, -4 Int: Sun elves are agile and determined, and very empathic, but they are physically weak and fragile, and they have very little intelligence. -Medium -Sun elf base land speed is 30 feet. -+1 natural armor bonus. -Darkvision: Sun elf eyes can pick out a single photon of light even in what other races would call total darkness, allowing them to see in total darkness out to 150 feet. Darkvision is black-and-white only, but is otherwise the same as normal sight. -Low-light vision: Sun elves can see three times as well as a human in low-light conditions. -Sun elves are immune to enchantment and sleep effects, as well as being blinded. -Spell Resistance: Sun elves have spell resistance equal to 11 + their Hit Dice. -A sun elf has a +2 racial bonus on Will saves against spells and spell-like abilities. -Racial Hit Dice: A sun elf begins with three levels of Fey, which provide 3d6 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +1, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +1, Ref +3, and Will +3. -Racial Skills: A sun elf's fey levels give it skill points equal to 6 X (6 + Int modifier). Its class skills are coming soon. -Racial Feats: A sun elf's fey levels give it two feats. In addition, a sun elf gains Weapon Focus with one of its racial weapons as a bonus feat. -Spells: A sun elf with a Charisma score of 10 or higher (after ability score modifications) can cast spells as a 4th-level sorcerer. -Spell-Like Abilities: 2/day-light, cure light wounds, glitterdust. Caster level equals the sun elf's Hit Dice. The save DCs are Charisma-based. -Fey Glamour: Light refracts off a sun elf’s body, creating a twisting pattern of rainbow light to surround it, based on the ambient illumination of its surroundings. In bright light, a sun elf radiates bright light in a 60-foot radius, and every creature that looks directly at the sun elf must succeed on a Fortitude save or be blinded for 2d6 rounds. Creatures harmed by bright light take 3d6 points of damage each round they are exposed to the radius. In shadowy illumination, the sun elf radiates 40-foot radius of light, and any creature that looks directly at the sun elf must succeed on a save or be dazzled for 2d6 rounds. Creatures vulnerable to sunlight that enter the area take 1d6 points of damage each round. If their is no ambient light in the sun elf's square, she instead radiates light in a 5-foot radius. No matter the radius, this ability counts as a daylight effect. Sun elves are immune to all spells with the [Light] descriptor. Saves against this ability have a DC of 10 + 1/2 the sun elf's Hit Dice + the sun elf's Charisma modifier. -A sun elf has a +2 racial bonus on Listen checks. -A sun elf has a +4 racial bonus on Search and Spot checks, and a sun elf that passes within 5 feet of a concealed door or compartment may immediately make a Search check to find it as if they were actively searching for it. -A sun elf has a +4 racial bonus on Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (history) checks. -A sun elf is automatically proficient with longswords, short swords, longbows, and shortbows. -Automatic Languages: Common, Solarin. Bonus Languages: Elven, Auran, Aquan, Undercommon, Celestial, Draconic. -Favored Class: Sorcerer -Level Adjustment: +2?? Wyldfaes are earth elves, often called wood or forest elves. Personality: ... Physical Description: Wyldfae are the tallest of the elves, with both males and females standing around seven feet tall. Their skin is of earthen hues, soft browns, mixed with subtle greens, and their hair ranges through various colors of leaves, and most wyldfae have hair that changes color with the seasons, from green in the spring and summer, golds, oranges, and reds in fall, and dull brown in winter. Alignment: Wyldfae follow specific rites that follow the changing the seasons, which draws them towards law, but their indiffernence and sometimes cruelty to other creatures leads them towards evil. Wyldfae Lands: Wyldfae live in the forests and woods of Shinar, and patrol their borders ferociously. Language: Wyldfae speak Terran, but many also learn Common, Elven, Undercommon, or Auran. WYLDFAE RACIAL TRAITS -Fey (Earth): Wyldfae are Fey with the Earth subtype, meaning they cannot be affected by spells that affect humanoids. -+2 Con, +2 Int, -2 Dex: Wyldfae are as tough as trees, and are smart, but they lack agility. -Medium -Wyldfae base land speed is 30 feet. -Low-light vision: Wyldfae can see three times as well as a human in low-light conditions. -Wyldfae are immune to enchantment and sleep effects. -Racial Hit Dice: A wyldfae begins with three levels of Fey, which provide 3d6 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +1, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +1, Ref +3, and Will +3. -Racial Skills: A wyldfae's fey levels give it skill points equal to 6 X (6 + Int modifier). Its class skills are coming soon. -Racial Feats: A wyldfae's fey levels give it two feats. In addition, a wyldfae gains Weapon Focus with one of its racial weapons as a bonus feat. -Spells: A wyldfae with a Intelligence score of 10 or higher (after ability score modifications) can cast spells as a 2nd-level wizard. -Fey Glamour: A wyldfae can use the Hide skill in any kind of natural terrain, even those that do not provide cover or concealment, and can even Hide while being observed. -A wyldfae has a +2 racial bonus on Listen checks. -A wyldfae has a +4 racial bonus on Search and Spot checks, and a wyldfae that passes within 5 feet of a concealed door or compartment may immediately make a Search check to find it as if they were actively searching for it. -A wyldfae has a +4 racial bonus on Knowledge (nature) checks. -Wyldfae are automatically proficient with clubs, quarterstaffs, longbows, and spears. -Automatic Languages: Common, Terran. Bonus Languages: Elven, Ignian, Undercommon, Infernal, Draconic. -Favored Class: Druid -Level Adjustment: +1?? The normal D&D elf is the half-elf (and normal D&D half-elves have gone bye-bye) in this setting, but depending on the parent elf, they get an additional small bonus. Are these okay for leaving the half-elves LA +0? Half-Averial: Half-Averials sometimes have feathers instead of hair. (Ability: Jump +4) Half-Drow: Half-Drow have steel-grey skin and whitish eyes. (Ability: Darkvision 60 ft.) Half-Maenad: Half-Maenads usually have red hair, and have a higher average body temperature. (Ability: resistance to fire 2) Half-Merlan: Half-Merlen have blue tinged skin and hair. (Ability: Hold breath 4 X Con) Half-Sun Elf: Half-Sun Elves have white hair that glimmers rainbows colors when light hits it. (Ability: glow like a candle) Half-Wyldfae: Half-Wyldfae have greenish hair. (Ability: I don't know, could someone help me out here? What would be good?)
JarionSilverblades 10-23-07, 06:17 PM	The Averial should have a much higher LA. +2 to two abilities, flight, Good maneuverability, bonus weapon focus feat (I don't see its racial weapons listed), blur effect while flying, never effected by wind effects, +2 to Listen, +4 to search, spells as a 2nd level Sorcerer, +8 spot, and the non-lawful monk class. This is a LA +3 easy. I mean a Planetouched is LA +1 and doesn't have nearly the kinda power this race has, also Why Fey? :twocents:
Silversheen197 10-23-07, 09:43 PM	A couple questions: did you notice the racial Hit Dice? The presence of those means the LA doesn't need to be as high. Also, if you'd notice, if you took a normal elf and added all three levels of elf paragon (which is perfectly balanced), you'd get something very close to the averial. The only additions would be: -the glamour (I'd say this is a moderately powerful addition); -flight (I'll admit this is pretty big); -An extra +4 bonus on Spot checks. Is that really worth going from third to sixth? Oh, and all the other elves save sun elves are up now. What do you think about them?
Finfreeze 10-23-07, 10:52 PM	From a brief look over... I think the averial is the closest one to being balanced. It gets better-than-the-fly-spell flight and a neat ability that's always active while flying. The others look underpowered for four to six levels. I would have pegged maenads for +Charisma, myself.
Noblehawk33 10-23-07, 11:03 PM	I like that you have given them the fey subtype it is closer to mythology. I wish I could be more helpful with the LA's but that is something I come here for help with myself. I think that from what you have done with elves your world would be interesting to explore.
Silversheen197 10-24-07, 12:14 PM	From a brief look over... I think the averial is the closest one to being balanced. It gets better-than-the-fly-spell flight and a neat ability that's always active while flying. The others look underpowered for four to six levels. I would have pegged maenads for +Charisma, myself. I know the drow LA was a bit too high, so I brought it down to +2. Do you really think that the Merlen, Maenads, and Wyldfae could get away with no LA? Their abilities seem to be a bit too high for a 3rd level character (comparing a Merlan to an averial, they have a fast swim speed, ability to breathe underwater (4th-level spell), a neat ability that makes them impossible to find while underwater (+10 to Hide and camoflage)). Maenads are immune to fire, and have a similar blur ability that will almost always be active where they live. If the almighty D&D Boards think that they can get away with no LA then that's fine with me, but at the moment it doesn't make sense. Convince me please :D ! Oh, and Maenads don't get +Charisma because, while emotional, they have no unusually good ability to empathize (empathise? How does we spells it, Precious?) with others. They think, "If I do this, it'll migt make him mad...oh, well, sucks to be him." Now, sun elves on the other hand... P.S. Oh, yes, half-elves are up as well! EDIT: Ah, I see you noticed my attempt to be clever in my title ;) EDIT 2: I'm wondering whether Knowledge (nature) or Climb would be a better racial skill bonus for Wyldfae...what do you guys think?
RobbyPants 10-24-07, 12:48 PM	I'm not a big fan of the drow having a Cha penalty, but that's just me. I agree that the Averial look decent, and the others are a little underpowered. The Averial should have a much higher LA. +2 to two abilities, flight, Good maneuverability, bonus weapon focus feat (I don't see its racial weapons listed), blur effect while flying, never effected by wind effects, +2 to Listen, +4 to search, spells as a 2nd level Sorcerer, +8 spot, and the non-lawful monk class. This is a LA +3 easy. I mean a Planetouched is LA +1 and doesn't have nearly the kinda power this race has, also Why Fey? :twocents: As mentioned, there are 3 racial hit dice as well, so you'll be 5th level before you can play one.
Silversheen197 10-24-07, 03:49 PM	It's RobbyPants :D !! Love the modified Vamp template, I used yours as a base to work off mine (mine's based on age, not HD, so a player can just choose an age category, and never have to worry about his LA going up again). But, erhemm...on to what you had to say: I'm not a big fan of the drow having a Cha penalty, but that's just me. I agree that the Averial look decent, and the others are a little underpowered. The drow having the Cha penalty came about because they're crude, and really bad at empathizing with other creatures. Have you ever met someone who thinks the universe revolves around them? That's what all drow are like. They also have a hard time registering the fact that other living creatures actually have emotions (even though they 'know' that they do), and even when they consider those emotions, they find it nearly impossible to guess how others might feel about the results of their actions. Plus, they act like Barbarians! Drizzt! Get your elbows off the table! (:D) SO, would you say that, except for the averial, I could just not have a LA for them? What about the drow (look again, I updated their Darkvision) or sun elves (who are just now getting put up)? Should the LA be +1 or +2 (it needs to be at least +1, because you can't cast as a 4th-Level caster and not be 4th level, 'cause that's just unfair)? Did you check the half-elves? Do you think those abilities are okay?
KoreKore 10-24-07, 04:34 PM	I think you should really consider the casting abilites of all these elves and look at their LA. I mean the ability to cast as a lvl 4 wizard for only a +1 LA seems kinda broken in my opinion plus the other stuff. I really think that that whole thing should be taken out. Otherwise I can see them being balanced generally.
Silversheen197 10-24-07, 05:15 PM	I think you should really consider the casting abilites of all these elves and look at their LA. I mean the ability to cast as a lvl 4 wizard for only a +1 LA seems kinda broken in my opinion plus the other stuff. I really think that that whole thing should be taken out. Otherwise I can see them being balanced generally. Huh? Only the drow and sun elves can cast as 4th-level casters, and they have 3 racial HD and a +2 level adjustment, which is still under dispute (it may be higher). All the other can cast as 2nd-level casters with 3 racial HD and a +1 level adjustment (also under dispute). See my response to JarionSilverblades: these elves are-normal D&D elves + 3 levels of elf paragon (up to here, perfectly balanced, which includes 2nd-level casting) + Fey type, Fey glamour, and extra +4 racial skill bonus. The drow and sun elves are + a little bit more, but they're supposed to be special.
RobbyPants 10-24-07, 06:59 PM	It's RobbyPants :D !! Love the modified Vamp template Thanks. I made a variant on it where you have to take monster levels to "pay off" the LA. The drow having the Cha penalty came about because they're crude, and really bad at empathizing with other creatures. Have you ever met someone who thinks the universe revolves around them? That's what all drow are like. They also have a hard time registering the fact that other living creatures actually have emotions (even though they 'know' that they do), and even when they consider those emotions, they find it nearly impossible to guess how others might feel about the results of their actions. Actually, that makes a lot of sense, now that you put it that way. As for the casting, I wouldn't give the race a higher caster level than their racial hit dice. I've seen a few other races/monsters do this. They cast as a sorcerer or equal level to their RHD, and it stacks with any sorcerer levels they take afterward. As for the half-elves, are those abilities added to the standard PHB ones? The PHB half-elves certainly need a boost. I don't think any of them are too powerful if I'm understanding them correctly. My only question is the Half-Sun Elf ability: does the "glow like candle" part provide illumination? Does it give a Hide penalty? As for the half Wyldfae, you could give them +4 on Hide in natural terrain.
Silversheen197 10-24-07, 07:24 PM	As for the casting, I wouldn't give the race a higher caster level than their racial hit dice. I've seen a few other races/monsters do this. They cast as a sorcerer or equal level to their RHD, and it stacks with any sorcerer levels they take afterward. As for the half-elves, are those abilities added to the standard PHB ones? The PHB half-elves certainly need a boost. I don't think any of them are too powerful if I'm understanding them correctly. My only question is the Half-Sun Elf ability: does the "glow like candle" part provide illumination? Does it give a Hide penalty? As for the half Wyldfae, you could give them +4 on Hide in natural terrain. 1) I know, but I wanted them to have twice the casting of normal elves, but to keep their HD the same... 2) Actually, the abilities are added to the normal elf stats. Yes, glowing like a candle gives bright illumination out to 5 feet and shadowy out to 10. I guess that it gives a penalty to Hide... Sure, why not give the half-wyldfae a +4 Hide in natural settings!
RobbyPants 10-25-07, 10:00 AM	1) I know, but I wanted them to have twice the casting of normal elves, but to keep their HD the same... The other reason I suggested sorcerer is because it represents an innate ability to manipulate magic. Any race I've seen that has innate casting always is treated as a sorcerer or X level. Typically X is the racial Hit Dice. I don't really like the idea of a race casting as a wizard of X level, because wizard casting represents training, something generally beyond the scope of a race. I suppose some races get various weapon proficiencies (repersenting training), so you could treat them as a wizard of X level. I just feel if you want a race to have wizard training, give them wizard levels ;) Also, if a race can cast as class level X, then the bulk of it's power needs to be taken into account in the level adjustment, not the racial hit dice. If the racial hit dice grant caster levels (the most powerful ability in the game), then they're really not a drawback. Typically speaking, RHD are used to limit the power of a race, or help chew up a larger LA, as RHD are almost always inferior to class levels. In this case, if Fey RHD have caster levels associated with them, it's actually slightly more powerful than a wizard of the same level. All I'm saying is you have to be careful giving out caster levels to a race if you want to keep it from being a prohibitively high ECL. 2) Actually, the abilities are added to the normal elf stats. You mean the PHB elves or your elves? I would assume that the half elves should be weaker than the elves (in that they're combining with a weaker race).
Silversheen197 10-25-07, 01:30 PM	The other reason I suggested sorcerer is because it represents an innate ability to manipulate magic. Any race I've seen that has innate casting always is treated as a sorcerer or X level. Typically X is the racial Hit Dice. I don't really like the idea of a race casting as a wizard of X level, because wizard casting represents training, something generally beyond the scope of a race. I suppose some races get various weapon proficiencies (repersenting training), so you could treat them as a wizard of X level. I just feel if you want a race to have wizard training, give them wizard levels ;) Also, if a race can cast as class level X, then the bulk of it's power needs to be taken into account in the level adjustment, not the racial hit dice. If the racial hit dice grant caster levels (the most powerful ability in the game), then they're really not a drawback. Typically speaking, RHD are used to limit the power of a race, or help chew up a larger LA, as RHD are almost always inferior to class levels. In this case, if Fey RHD have caster levels associated with them, it's actually slightly more powerful than a wizard of the same level. All I'm saying is you have to be careful giving out caster levels to a race if you want to keep it from being a prohibitively high ECL. It's not that fey RHD have caster levels associated with them, it's that elves have a set caster level associated with them. Technically, one of these elves could have no RHD, but still cast as a 2nd-level (or 4th-level, for drow or sun elf) caster. They could also choose to gain RHD instead of class levels, but their caster level wouldn't change. The race sets the innate caster level limit, not the amount of racial Hit Dice. Drow and sun elves simply have the racial ability *casts as a 4th-level caster*, and then, because they're elves, their normal racial HD are 3. And regarding the natural casting as a wizard: the elves that have it all have a bonus to Intelligence, and naturally generate their own magical energy. They also have an innate knowledge of how to 'throw' magic about, but it's like a baby trying to speak. A baby knows how to make sounds, but those sounds don't mean anything. Their parents teach them how to make meaningful sounds, or, for the elves, their parents teach them wizardry to have their natural magic take meaningful shapes (otherwise it doesn't do anything; magic without direction is just wasted energy). So yes, it's a training, but for elves it's such a basic training that there's almost no way an elf could get to be adventuring age and not have the capability (unless he's an idiot, of course). You mean the PHB elves or your elves? I would assume that the half elves should be weaker than the elves (in that they're combining with a weaker race). I mean the normal D&D, PHB elves.
NessaEllenesse 10-27-07, 01:04 AM	So why make the elves in your campaign setting Fey instead of humanoid?:confused:
Silversheen197 10-27-07, 09:05 PM	So why make the elves in your campaign setting Fey instead of humanoid?:confused: Because Fey have the alien mindset, intimate connection to nature, resistance to humanoid magic, and natural abilities with magic and illusion that I feel elves should have, and that the humanoid type doesn't quite fit. Also, it's a lot easier to give them elemental subtypes when they're not humanoids (which was a requirement for my concept of these elves).
Lokathor 10-28-07, 12:03 AM	Fire Clerics can turn and destroy Merlens, and rebuke or command Maenads. That strikes me as funny. With Averial, is Wind subtype just another word for Air subtype, or do you mean for it to be different? Did you consider giving Drow Tomb Tainted Soul as a bonus feat? Seems a natural thing to toss onto an Evil aligned race like that. Wyldfae seem really weak, maybe toss on a burrow speed of 20ft? Or just dropping them to LA +0 would work, but burrowing is cooler. Also, you can slap elemental or alignment subtypes on Humanoids all you want.
Silversheen197 10-28-07, 05:19 PM	Fire Clerics can turn and destroy Merlens, and rebuke or command Maenads. That strikes me as funny. With Averial, is Wind subtype just another word for Air subtype, or do you mean for it to be different? Hmm, I just re-read it, and it seems that you're right...That seems kinda strange that a Water-domain Cleric could destroy a red dragon with a single turn check? Oh, well, that's just a side effect of having an elemental subtype. I've always considered the 4th element to be Wind, not Air, so that's what it is in my campaign setting. It means the same thing. Did you consider giving Drow Tomb Tainted Soul as a bonus feat? Seems a natural thing to toss onto an Evil aligned race like that. I've never seen that feat before. Is it from Libris Mortis? But it doesn't matter unless there's a feat that does the exact opposite that I could give to sun elves, because they need to be opposites in every aspect. Besides, if it's such a good match, it's probably likely that most drow will end up taking it anyway. Wyldfae seem really weak, maybe toss on a burrow speed of 20ft? Or just dropping them to LA +0 would work, but burrowing is cooler. Really? Alrighty, how about, instead of a burrow speed, a climb speed of 30 ft.? That seems more their style (life is a sub-element of Earth, and that's what wyldfae exemplify. Wyldfae are most similar to the standard Tolkien forest-dwelling elf). Would that work, do you think? Also, you can slap elemental or alignment subtypes on Humanoids all you want. I know, but it just seems weird to me. The humanoid type is for creatures without any extreme magical connection, and being composed of elemental forces seems to go too far for that type to encompass (to me at least; others might feel differently).
Lokathor 10-28-07, 09:42 PM	Tomb Tainted Soul makes you count as undead when resolving positive energy and negative energy effects on you (heal from inflict, damage from cure). Sun Elves are living, so they already have the opposite built in (damage from inflict, heal from cure). Printed in Libris Mortis, Pg30. Most Drow would end up taking it just so that their clerics (who are all evil) would be able to spontaneously restore hit points. However, if the Drow have to take a feat and the Sun Elves don't, then the Drow aren't exactly completely opposite. I've never heard life is a sub element of earth. Positive Energy has its own element in DnD, and even within the 4 element structure it's usually water that gets the cure magic. But yea, Climb 30ft would work I guess.
Silversheen197 10-28-07, 10:10 PM	I guess it's because I created my own elemental heirarchy before I even started playing D&D (5 years ago), and that's what my campaign setting is based around. Life, which includes plant life and animal life, but not positive energy, is a sub-element of earth (because plants grow from the earth), as is stone. There is no positive or negative energy, there is Light and Dark, which are each superior to two of the base elements (water and wind under Light, fire and earth under Dark). None of the elements are supposed to have moral inclinations, but alignment is such a big part of D&D that I omitted that part. [edit] Tomb Tainted Soul definitely could not be a racial ability for drow, because on Friday the party ran into a group of 'em (we have a half-drow healer in the party, who is now being tracked), and, when they had one tied up and at 0 hp, he wheezed "I tell you nothing" and cast his last inflict light wounds SLA...on himself, which killed him. Who needs cyanide pills when you have innate suicide power?
Silversheen197 10-30-07, 11:27 PM	So, any last comments from anyone?