Emims Revisited [Archive] - Wizards Community

Emims Revisited [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Two Rivers Wolfbrother
07-27-07, 12:47 AM http://www.towncenter.tv/EmimChapter.pdf

A long time ago I presented a new race of Medium giants called emims. Here I have written a 13-page chapter all about them. Please let me know what you think. Thank you for any critical comments and/or compliments.
Two Rivers Wolfbrother
07-27-07, 09:01 PM For those of you who don't want to read the PDF file, here's the race's important stuff. Please let me know what you think. Thanks.

OVERVIEW
Emims are freedom-loving giants of the cold plains and highlands. Small for giants, they are treated as humans by most other giants, and as giants by humans. Some scholars theorize they are actually half-giants, though emims readily and fiercely deny that.
Personality: Emims are known for their bullheadedness and their passion. When an emim sets his mind to something, he will do it, even when it’s completely obvious it's the wrong thing to do to everyone else. The most important thing to an emim is his family, and children are raised as much by the community as by the parents and grandparents. Males have their role as workers and warriors, and females have their role as homemakers and nurturers, and these roles are rarely broken.
Emims treat the elderly with a weird sort of respect. They are shunned as people who can help anyone because of their age and physical weakness, but highly sought after as caretakers of communities and children. To an emim, the family is protected first, then the community, then the tribe or nation.
Physical Description: An average emim stands between 7 ½ and 8 ½ feet tall, and weighs between 300 and 380 pounds. Men are usually taller than women, and both have a tendency for stoutness.
Emims are not very different from humans in appearance. They have broader noses, however, and broader shoulders, making them look simply massive. The women are attracted to the broad, hardened look the men usually have (and members of other races, especially humans and elves can be too), and the men are attracted to the round curves their females have (which most males of other races don't like, thinking they look pudgy).
Culture dictates the hairstyle for both male and female emims. In many tribes, men grow their hair long while they’re yet unmarried, then put it into dread locks when they get married. Should their wife die and they seek another wife, a rare occurrence, they shave their dread locks and start anew. Men who don’t seek to marry, whether because they are already married or because they lost their wife and don't seek another, keep their dread locks on. The dread locks are a symbol of permanent faithfulness, which is almost always kept. Women, who aren’t seen as at risk to be unfaithful, grow their hair long as well. When they are married, they may wear their hair as they wish, though it's considered unfeminine to wear hair short. Pigtails are popular.
Relations: Emims are generally distrusted by many races, especially ones that have a hatred for giants. Even though they have proven themselves time and again to not be an evil race, the same races that hate giants will typically hate emims (which are, of course, giants themselves).
Emims love most other non-evil races. They respect human ingenuity, elven regality, dwarven toughness, gnomish inventiveness, and halfling curiosity. Races that like emims typically do because of their passion and love of freedom, and also because of their emphasis on family.
Emims are very self-reliant, though, so they don’t always have a lot of contact with other races. When emims are an ally, though, they prove loyal and strong.
Alignment: Emims by nature are chaotic. However, order has its place in emim society, and lawful emims are not by any means outcasts or freaks. Evil emims are rare, as families and communal selflessness are key to the lifestyle. Good emims are common, but not typical, as emims are swift to war when they feel repressed, and many emims tend toward crude behavior.
Emim Lands: Emims live where the others don't want to. This typically means the tundra, swamps, or wherever else they can be. Emims are fiercely territorial and independent-minded though, and will not give up their homelands nor be ruled by anyone. Emims often have to war against monsters and evil races that would raid their simple communities for what wealth they can find, and some greedy rulers that would try to control them.
Religion: Braemash is the deity and creator of the emims. The first emims are said to be his very offspring from his wife, Nayka, who they also worship. Braemash teaches his children that they must have many children, respect their spouse, protect those they love, and endure all trials. Nayka instills her love of freedom in her offspring, as well as her love of music and dancing.
Language: Emims use a language that is unique from other languages. It is difficult to pronounce many words for members of other races, simply because consonants are often put together in combinations. Many emims know common, and it seems the Emim tongue is slowly dying out as Common becomes more and more useful and typical.
Names: Every emim is given three names: One given by the father at age eight that typically represents a virtue or trait, one by the mother at birth that is usually an animal, and the name of the community. The patriarchal and matriarchal names are usually combined into one name, such as Basalkoln or Valrpires.
Male Patriarchal Names: Basal (Passion), Chyw (Strength), Ksanan (Defense), Ksep (Durability), Mlil (Pleasantness), Miwot (Kindness), Moders (Wisdom), Poktan (Bravery), Shaw (Fury), Valr (Faith).
Male Matriarchal Names: Elen (Stag), Koln (Horse), Ktur (Rat), Kurolom (Mammoth), Luv (Lion), Nidzewep (Bear), Pires (Dog), Samlok (Dragon), Sokuw (Eagle), Velk (Wolf).
Female Patriarchal Names: Basalisa, Chywisa, Ksananora, Ksepila, Mlilisa, Miwotila, Modersila, Poktanora, Shawisa, Valrisa.
Female Matriarchal Names: Elena, Kolna, Ktura, Kuroloma, Luva, Nidzewepa, Piresa, Samloka, Sokuwa, Velka.
Adventurers: Emims are very passionate about freedom, and typical adventurers from among them are generally out to secure freedom or create freedom. Some may be on self-appointed missions of revenge against someone who wronged them or their family. Others may see the adventuring as a way to secure their homelands from future threats. Some simply want to leave and adventure.

EMIM RACIAL TRAITS
• +4 Strength, -4 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma: Emims are extremely strong and tough, but they are not very agile or knowledgeable, and their bluntness makes them often at odds with others.
• Emim base land speed is 30 feet.
• Medium: As Medium creatures, emims have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. However, see the powerful build ability description below for more details.
• Giant: Emims are giants, but despite this, they are still affected by spells that would normally affect humanoids. Most scholars who know about this use this as proof that emims are part-human.
• Powerful Build: The physical stature of an emim lets him function in many ways as if he were one size category larger. Whenever an emim is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the emim is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. An emim is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature's special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. An emim can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category.
• Stubborn: Emims gain +1 to all Will saves.
• Dim Eyes: Emims don’t have good vision, and take a -6 penalty to all Search and Spot checks and a -2 penalty to all ranged attacks.
• Vulnerable: Emims have a weakness against magic that makes them quite vulnerable to spells and spell-like abilities. They suffer a -2 penalties on all saves against spells or spell-like abilities cast on them.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Emim. Bonus languages: Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, Halfling, and Orc.
• Favored Class: Barbarian. A multiclass emim's barbarian class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty (see the XP for Multiclass Characters section on page 60 of the Player's Handbook). The tribal life and chaotic nature of the emims produces many barbarians.
IdleAltruism
07-27-07, 09:14 PM To me these kinda sound like brady bunch giants. The lovable giant thug kinda thing. I personally don't like them flavor wise, they just seem like they belong in a childrens book or something.

From a mechanical view they are almost worthless. -4 dex and -int and cha, so basically they're barbarians and can only be barbarians. For being such a lovable race you'd think they'd have a bonus to CHA.

I'd make them a LA +1 just so you can give them abilities without making them so have so many debilitating traits.

Something like +2 str +2 con +2 CHA(looks like draconic template to me).
Then give them powerful build and call it a day?
Two Rivers Wolfbrother
07-28-07, 04:41 AM Thank you for the input.

I guess you could say that they make better barbarians than anything else, but I would also say that halflings make better rogues than anything else, and dwarves make better fighters than anything else. Having a high Strength, low Dexterity, and low Charisma doesn't mean you have to be a barbarian. And their other abilities (Powerful Build, Stubborn) don't insinuate barbarian automatically.

If you want to follow the stereotypes, yeah, these are basically barbarians, but by stereotypes, elves are wizards or rangers, dwarves are fighters, gnomes are illusionists, and half-orcs are barbarians. I really would hope that anyone playing in my game would either have better creativity than that, or just go ahead and make an emim barbarian, but with an awesome storyline.

They are as charismatic as dwarves; no less. They are as intelligent as half-orcs. They are as durable as gnomes and dwarves. Yes, they're exceptionally strong. They're giants. Yes, they're particularly slow. They're bulky. They are only a couple of feet taller than humans, so they're still medium size, but they basically are at the upper limit of medium size, so they have Powerful Build, which is one good thing. They are stubborn, so they get a +1 bonus to Will saves, which is countered greatly by their weakness against magic anyway. They have a hard time seeing (which can be useful to barbarians), and are particularly vulnerable to magic, which is already perhaps barbarians' greatest weakness.

So to say that they are simply always going to be barbarians is like saying half-orcs are always going to be barbarians. Or that dwarves are always going to be fighters. In emims, I'm trying to create a race that lives on the fringes, outside of civilized life, but can still have its own uniqueness and civility. They are much more civililzed than orcs or gnolls, and especially moreso than typical giants.

My goal was to create a medium-sized giant species with a LA of +0. I trimmed away everything except what made sense, and gave them weaknesses that are not specific to any class.

As for their being lovable, they get along with other species as well as any others. They have rivalries, they go to war when they are threatened, and they are loyal to their allies. More often than not, they are left alone and somewhat feared by the other races.

Or, if you're saying that they're lovable by the players and participants in the story, I would certainly hope that they are. Isn't that one of the goals of the player races?

Again, I do appreciate the constructive criticism, but I personally would hope that, as roleplayers, we are not simply looking at races and thinking, "Well, that race equals that class, that race equals that class, and that race equals that class."
IdleAltruism
07-28-07, 04:16 PM Damn you forum maintenance! I posted last night and when I got done the site was down for maintenance.

Ok first off. All the other core races can be good at several core classes. The Half-orc makes good barbarians/fighters/clerics/shapeshifting druids/Rangers/monks. Dwarves make good everything that doesn't involve charisma.

I wasn't trying to say that they must stereotypicaly be barbarians. Mechanically the only core classes they excel at are barbarian and cleric. And even with those classes they suffer alot. With both of these classes they take a -4 on reflex saves vs magic, thats really painful. The cleric gets heavy armor which would help this race alot, but the barbarians AC really hurts here. So basically you have a glass canon when it comes to the barb. And they get a -2 will save to put the nail in the coffin.

Also a -4 is ALOT, they can't walk without bumping into something or tripping.
Think of it this way, a normal human with a 10 str vs an 100 year old human who now has 6 str. You see the difference? It may only be a -2 difference but
looking at it, an average man vs an 100 year old man thats a big gap.

I don't think powerful build can be implemented in a LA +0. I think if you really want to make it work its gonna have to be a LA+1. Look at the half giant. You might want to just take them, maybe remove some of the psionic abilities for something else add your own fluff and it would be exactly what you're looking for.

Unless your entire game is roleplaying this race really isn't worth it. You're right we don't have to optimize everything, this race doesn't equal that class.
But this race doesn't do very well at any class. From a mechanical view a half orc is better and they are considered weak in comparison to all but the half elf.
Two Rivers Wolfbrother
07-28-07, 05:05 PM Point taken.

Any other opinions?
Lawlicron
07-28-07, 05:43 PM EMIM RACIAL TRAITS
• +4 Strength, -4 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma: Emims are extremely strong and tough, but they are not very agile or knowledgeable, and their bluntness makes them often at odds with others.
• Emim base land speed is 30 feet.
• Medium: As Medium creatures, emims have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. However, see the powerful build ability description below for more details.
• Giant: Emims are giants, but despite this, they are still affected by spells that would normally affect humanoids. Most scholars who know about this use this as proof that emims are part-human.
• Powerful Build: The physical stature of an emim lets him function in many ways as if he were one size category larger. Whenever an emim is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the emim is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. An emim is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature's special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. An emim can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category.
• Stubborn: Emims gain +1 to all Will saves.
• Dim Eyes: Emims don’t have good vision, and take a -6 penalty to all Search and Spot checks and a -2 penalty to all ranged attacks.
• Vulnerable: Emims have a weakness against magic that makes them quite vulnerable to spells and spell-like abilities. They suffer a -2 penalties on all saves against spells or spell-like abilities cast on them.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Emim. Bonus languages: Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, Halfling, and Orc.
• Favored Class: Barbarian.

Ok first gripe, having them take a -6 on search and spot and a -2 on ranged attacks does not balance things out. Big giant negatives to skills don't do anything but make races suck. Choosing a race is not about choosing a set of penalties. I understand that sometimes races have penalties to things but in turn gain a bonus to something else.

Second is stubborn and magic vulnerable. Stubborn is horrible, you gave them half of iron will but make it meaningless because they have a -2 to will saves vs. magic. You might as well forget about Stubborn and make it -1 against will saves. Name five abilities requiring will saves that are not spell like or spells themselves, then I'll show you five abilities you don't see that often in DnD.

The giant-type not giant-type part is bull, be done with it, they are humanoids. The only reason to make them giants with those restrictions is so you can't hit races with plus to dodge against giants. Thats about it. Its like someone choosing this race is just choosing it for a set of penalties again.

Powerful build allows for alot of versatility it is worth an LA+1 on a medium creature. Sorry, thems the breaks with powerful build.

Now for the abilities, but let me go off on a tangent first. I didn't read the fluff (I usually don't as to not cloud my judgement on the balanced-ness of races) but I find it admirable you put so much into this. +4 Str is alot, that is +2 to melee attack and damage. They won't be making ranged attacks with their -4 so the -4 dex is just a denial of two weapon fighting and dodge and a big drop in AC. They have +2 con to help with hp because of that crap AC they're going to have. -2 Int, they are dumb I understand this. Now we come to... dun DUN DUN a penalty of -2 to CHA! NO! Making charisma a dump stat for this race does not balance it! Everyone on these boards gives cha a -2 because they think it balances out. It doesn't. Charisma isn't just the stat you make really low so you can make everything else really high. Going further on this, I've read in other peoples posts that your race is supposed to be lovable. So why the penalty to cha?

In closing, remove the cha penalty maybe decrease the +/- 4s to +/- 2s but it'd still be ok if you don't they are just super pigeon holed into certain roles. Its an LA+1 though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Two Rivers Wolfbrother 07-27-07, 12:47 AM	http://www.towncenter.tv/EmimChapter.pdf A long time ago I presented a new race of Medium giants called emims. Here I have written a 13-page chapter all about them. Please let me know what you think. Thank you for any critical comments and/or compliments.
Two Rivers Wolfbrother 07-27-07, 09:01 PM	For those of you who don't want to read the PDF file, here's the race's important stuff. Please let me know what you think. Thanks. OVERVIEW Emims are freedom-loving giants of the cold plains and highlands. Small for giants, they are treated as humans by most other giants, and as giants by humans. Some scholars theorize they are actually half-giants, though emims readily and fiercely deny that. Personality: Emims are known for their bullheadedness and their passion. When an emim sets his mind to something, he will do it, even when it’s completely obvious it's the wrong thing to do to everyone else. The most important thing to an emim is his family, and children are raised as much by the community as by the parents and grandparents. Males have their role as workers and warriors, and females have their role as homemakers and nurturers, and these roles are rarely broken. Emims treat the elderly with a weird sort of respect. They are shunned as people who can help anyone because of their age and physical weakness, but highly sought after as caretakers of communities and children. To an emim, the family is protected first, then the community, then the tribe or nation. Physical Description: An average emim stands between 7 ½ and 8 ½ feet tall, and weighs between 300 and 380 pounds. Men are usually taller than women, and both have a tendency for stoutness. Emims are not very different from humans in appearance. They have broader noses, however, and broader shoulders, making them look simply massive. The women are attracted to the broad, hardened look the men usually have (and members of other races, especially humans and elves can be too), and the men are attracted to the round curves their females have (which most males of other races don't like, thinking they look pudgy). Culture dictates the hairstyle for both male and female emims. In many tribes, men grow their hair long while they’re yet unmarried, then put it into dread locks when they get married. Should their wife die and they seek another wife, a rare occurrence, they shave their dread locks and start anew. Men who don’t seek to marry, whether because they are already married or because they lost their wife and don't seek another, keep their dread locks on. The dread locks are a symbol of permanent faithfulness, which is almost always kept. Women, who aren’t seen as at risk to be unfaithful, grow their hair long as well. When they are married, they may wear their hair as they wish, though it's considered unfeminine to wear hair short. Pigtails are popular. Relations: Emims are generally distrusted by many races, especially ones that have a hatred for giants. Even though they have proven themselves time and again to not be an evil race, the same races that hate giants will typically hate emims (which are, of course, giants themselves). Emims love most other non-evil races. They respect human ingenuity, elven regality, dwarven toughness, gnomish inventiveness, and halfling curiosity. Races that like emims typically do because of their passion and love of freedom, and also because of their emphasis on family. Emims are very self-reliant, though, so they don’t always have a lot of contact with other races. When emims are an ally, though, they prove loyal and strong. Alignment: Emims by nature are chaotic. However, order has its place in emim society, and lawful emims are not by any means outcasts or freaks. Evil emims are rare, as families and communal selflessness are key to the lifestyle. Good emims are common, but not typical, as emims are swift to war when they feel repressed, and many emims tend toward crude behavior. Emim Lands: Emims live where the others don't want to. This typically means the tundra, swamps, or wherever else they can be. Emims are fiercely territorial and independent-minded though, and will not give up their homelands nor be ruled by anyone. Emims often have to war against monsters and evil races that would raid their simple communities for what wealth they can find, and some greedy rulers that would try to control them. Religion: Braemash is the deity and creator of the emims. The first emims are said to be his very offspring from his wife, Nayka, who they also worship. Braemash teaches his children that they must have many children, respect their spouse, protect those they love, and endure all trials. Nayka instills her love of freedom in her offspring, as well as her love of music and dancing. Language: Emims use a language that is unique from other languages. It is difficult to pronounce many words for members of other races, simply because consonants are often put together in combinations. Many emims know common, and it seems the Emim tongue is slowly dying out as Common becomes more and more useful and typical. Names: Every emim is given three names: One given by the father at age eight that typically represents a virtue or trait, one by the mother at birth that is usually an animal, and the name of the community. The patriarchal and matriarchal names are usually combined into one name, such as Basalkoln or Valrpires. Male Patriarchal Names: Basal (Passion), Chyw (Strength), Ksanan (Defense), Ksep (Durability), Mlil (Pleasantness), Miwot (Kindness), Moders (Wisdom), Poktan (Bravery), Shaw (Fury), Valr (Faith). Male Matriarchal Names: Elen (Stag), Koln (Horse), Ktur (Rat), Kurolom (Mammoth), Luv (Lion), Nidzewep (Bear), Pires (Dog), Samlok (Dragon), Sokuw (Eagle), Velk (Wolf). Female Patriarchal Names: Basalisa, Chywisa, Ksananora, Ksepila, Mlilisa, Miwotila, Modersila, Poktanora, Shawisa, Valrisa. Female Matriarchal Names: Elena, Kolna, Ktura, Kuroloma, Luva, Nidzewepa, Piresa, Samloka, Sokuwa, Velka. Adventurers: Emims are very passionate about freedom, and typical adventurers from among them are generally out to secure freedom or create freedom. Some may be on self-appointed missions of revenge against someone who wronged them or their family. Others may see the adventuring as a way to secure their homelands from future threats. Some simply want to leave and adventure. EMIM RACIAL TRAITS • +4 Strength, -4 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma: Emims are extremely strong and tough, but they are not very agile or knowledgeable, and their bluntness makes them often at odds with others. • Emim base land speed is 30 feet. • Medium: As Medium creatures, emims have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. However, see the powerful build ability description below for more details. • Giant: Emims are giants, but despite this, they are still affected by spells that would normally affect humanoids. Most scholars who know about this use this as proof that emims are part-human. • Powerful Build: The physical stature of an emim lets him function in many ways as if he were one size category larger. Whenever an emim is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the emim is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. An emim is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature's special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. An emim can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category. • Stubborn: Emims gain +1 to all Will saves. • Dim Eyes: Emims don’t have good vision, and take a -6 penalty to all Search and Spot checks and a -2 penalty to all ranged attacks. • Vulnerable: Emims have a weakness against magic that makes them quite vulnerable to spells and spell-like abilities. They suffer a -2 penalties on all saves against spells or spell-like abilities cast on them. • Automatic Languages: Common and Emim. Bonus languages: Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, Halfling, and Orc. • Favored Class: Barbarian. A multiclass emim's barbarian class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty (see the XP for Multiclass Characters section on page 60 of the Player's Handbook). The tribal life and chaotic nature of the emims produces many barbarians.
IdleAltruism 07-27-07, 09:14 PM	To me these kinda sound like brady bunch giants. The lovable giant thug kinda thing. I personally don't like them flavor wise, they just seem like they belong in a childrens book or something. From a mechanical view they are almost worthless. -4 dex and -int and cha, so basically they're barbarians and can only be barbarians. For being such a lovable race you'd think they'd have a bonus to CHA. I'd make them a LA +1 just so you can give them abilities without making them so have so many debilitating traits. Something like +2 str +2 con +2 CHA(looks like draconic template to me). Then give them powerful build and call it a day?
Two Rivers Wolfbrother 07-28-07, 04:41 AM	Thank you for the input. I guess you could say that they make better barbarians than anything else, but I would also say that halflings make better rogues than anything else, and dwarves make better fighters than anything else. Having a high Strength, low Dexterity, and low Charisma doesn't mean you have to be a barbarian. And their other abilities (Powerful Build, Stubborn) don't insinuate barbarian automatically. If you want to follow the stereotypes, yeah, these are basically barbarians, but by stereotypes, elves are wizards or rangers, dwarves are fighters, gnomes are illusionists, and half-orcs are barbarians. I really would hope that anyone playing in my game would either have better creativity than that, or just go ahead and make an emim barbarian, but with an awesome storyline. They are as charismatic as dwarves; no less. They are as intelligent as half-orcs. They are as durable as gnomes and dwarves. Yes, they're exceptionally strong. They're giants. Yes, they're particularly slow. They're bulky. They are only a couple of feet taller than humans, so they're still medium size, but they basically are at the upper limit of medium size, so they have Powerful Build, which is one good thing. They are stubborn, so they get a +1 bonus to Will saves, which is countered greatly by their weakness against magic anyway. They have a hard time seeing (which can be useful to barbarians), and are particularly vulnerable to magic, which is already perhaps barbarians' greatest weakness. So to say that they are simply always going to be barbarians is like saying half-orcs are always going to be barbarians. Or that dwarves are always going to be fighters. In emims, I'm trying to create a race that lives on the fringes, outside of civilized life, but can still have its own uniqueness and civility. They are much more civililzed than orcs or gnolls, and especially moreso than typical giants. My goal was to create a medium-sized giant species with a LA of +0. I trimmed away everything except what made sense, and gave them weaknesses that are not specific to any class. As for their being lovable, they get along with other species as well as any others. They have rivalries, they go to war when they are threatened, and they are loyal to their allies. More often than not, they are left alone and somewhat feared by the other races. Or, if you're saying that they're lovable by the players and participants in the story, I would certainly hope that they are. Isn't that one of the goals of the player races? Again, I do appreciate the constructive criticism, but I personally would hope that, as roleplayers, we are not simply looking at races and thinking, "Well, that race equals that class, that race equals that class, and that race equals that class."
IdleAltruism 07-28-07, 04:16 PM	Damn you forum maintenance! I posted last night and when I got done the site was down for maintenance. Ok first off. All the other core races can be good at several core classes. The Half-orc makes good barbarians/fighters/clerics/shapeshifting druids/Rangers/monks. Dwarves make good everything that doesn't involve charisma. I wasn't trying to say that they must stereotypicaly be barbarians. Mechanically the only core classes they excel at are barbarian and cleric. And even with those classes they suffer alot. With both of these classes they take a -4 on reflex saves vs magic, thats really painful. The cleric gets heavy armor which would help this race alot, but the barbarians AC really hurts here. So basically you have a glass canon when it comes to the barb. And they get a -2 will save to put the nail in the coffin. Also a -4 is ALOT, they can't walk without bumping into something or tripping. Think of it this way, a normal human with a 10 str vs an 100 year old human who now has 6 str. You see the difference? It may only be a -2 difference but looking at it, an average man vs an 100 year old man thats a big gap. I don't think powerful build can be implemented in a LA +0. I think if you really want to make it work its gonna have to be a LA+1. Look at the half giant. You might want to just take them, maybe remove some of the psionic abilities for something else add your own fluff and it would be exactly what you're looking for. Unless your entire game is roleplaying this race really isn't worth it. You're right we don't have to optimize everything, this race doesn't equal that class. But this race doesn't do very well at any class. From a mechanical view a half orc is better and they are considered weak in comparison to all but the half elf.
Two Rivers Wolfbrother 07-28-07, 05:05 PM	Point taken. Any other opinions?
Lawlicron 07-28-07, 05:43 PM	EMIM RACIAL TRAITS • +4 Strength, -4 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma: Emims are extremely strong and tough, but they are not very agile or knowledgeable, and their bluntness makes them often at odds with others. • Emim base land speed is 30 feet. • Medium: As Medium creatures, emims have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. However, see the powerful build ability description below for more details. • Giant: Emims are giants, but despite this, they are still affected by spells that would normally affect humanoids. Most scholars who know about this use this as proof that emims are part-human. • Powerful Build: The physical stature of an emim lets him function in many ways as if he were one size category larger. Whenever an emim is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the emim is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. An emim is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature's special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. An emim can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category. • Stubborn: Emims gain +1 to all Will saves. • Dim Eyes: Emims don’t have good vision, and take a -6 penalty to all Search and Spot checks and a -2 penalty to all ranged attacks. • Vulnerable: Emims have a weakness against magic that makes them quite vulnerable to spells and spell-like abilities. They suffer a -2 penalties on all saves against spells or spell-like abilities cast on them. • Automatic Languages: Common and Emim. Bonus languages: Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, Halfling, and Orc. • Favored Class: Barbarian. Ok first gripe, having them take a -6 on search and spot and a -2 on ranged attacks does not balance things out. Big giant negatives to skills don't do anything but make races suck. Choosing a race is not about choosing a set of penalties. I understand that sometimes races have penalties to things but in turn gain a bonus to something else. Second is stubborn and magic vulnerable. Stubborn is horrible, you gave them half of iron will but make it meaningless because they have a -2 to will saves vs. magic. You might as well forget about Stubborn and make it -1 against will saves. Name five abilities requiring will saves that are not spell like or spells themselves, then I'll show you five abilities you don't see that often in DnD. The giant-type not giant-type part is bull, be done with it, they are humanoids. The only reason to make them giants with those restrictions is so you can't hit races with plus to dodge against giants. Thats about it. Its like someone choosing this race is just choosing it for a set of penalties again. Powerful build allows for alot of versatility it is worth an LA+1 on a medium creature. Sorry, thems the breaks with powerful build. Now for the abilities, but let me go off on a tangent first. I didn't read the fluff (I usually don't as to not cloud my judgement on the balanced-ness of races) but I find it admirable you put so much into this. +4 Str is alot, that is +2 to melee attack and damage. They won't be making ranged attacks with their -4 so the -4 dex is just a denial of two weapon fighting and dodge and a big drop in AC. They have +2 con to help with hp because of that crap AC they're going to have. -2 Int, they are dumb I understand this. Now we come to... dun DUN DUN a penalty of -2 to CHA! NO! Making charisma a dump stat for this race does not balance it! Everyone on these boards gives cha a -2 because they think it balances out. It doesn't. Charisma isn't just the stat you make really low so you can make everything else really high. Going further on this, I've read in other peoples posts that your race is supposed to be lovable. So why the penalty to cha? In closing, remove the cha penalty maybe decrease the +/- 4s to +/- 2s but it'd still be ok if you don't they are just super pigeon holed into certain roles. Its an LA+1 though.