Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Return of the Flumph 05-03-07, 12:49 PM	In a game I'm joining this summer, I want to play as a gnoll ranger. Looking over their stats, something confused me. Gnolls are a 2 HD monster with an LA of +1, making a total ECL of 3. However, although they are considered for all purpose to be third level characters from the getgo, they only have a single feat. When my gnoll gets his fist level of ranger, he will have three hit dice. 3 HD is usually the point at which most creatures gain another feat. However, this will aslo make him ECL 4, which is NOT when you typically get another feat. When I take my first class level, should I get the feat or not?
Thrincold 05-03-07, 12:53 PM	Don't shoot me if I'm wrong, I am at work, but yes you'll get that feat at first level, being a 3 hd creature. LA is basically an experience sink to adjust your power, not really virtual levels per se.
Witch 05-03-07, 12:54 PM	ECL does not come into the equation for purposes of feats, at all. Only character level (= hit dice) does. You get your feat at your first class level, in this case.
Return of the Flumph 05-03-07, 12:55 PM	Don't shoot me if I'm wrong, I am at work, but yes you'll get that feat at first level, being a 3 hd creature. LA is basically an experience sink to adjust your power, not really virtual levels per se. Why would I shoot you? That was exactly what I wanted to hear :) .
G_Mancer 05-03-07, 01:41 PM	ECL does not come into the equation for purposes of feats, at all. Only character level (= hit dice) does. You get your feat at your first class level, in this case. your 90% right. Feats and stat changes are based on hitdice, yes. but char lvl doesn't = hit dice. your right again when you say only hit dice matter... but i'd jsut like to point that out... it's something that really bugs me. when Effective Character Level is not counted as your character lvl. ECL IS CL for people who dont have just hit dice. thats it.
DarkRhystar 05-03-07, 01:46 PM	but char lvl doesn't = hit dice. It [ECL] would when all a creature has is racial hit die. Granted that isn't the case here. it's something that really bugs me. when Effective Character Level is not counted as your character lvl. ECL IS CL for people who dont have just hit dice. thats it. No, Effective Character Level and Character Level are only the same when the character possesses neither racial hit die nor level adjustment. Can't forget the level adjustment. Hit Die + Class Levels are used to determine when you gain feats, skills, attribute increases...etc. Hit Die + Level Adjustment + Class Levels are used to determine starting and recommended wealth.
Witch 05-03-07, 01:51 PM	your 90% right. Feats and stat changes are based on hitdice, yes. but char lvl doesn't = hit dice. I'm afraid you're incorrect. Character level and Hit Dice are identical. From the FAQ: Character Level: The total number of class levels [Personal remark: class levels provide one hit die each] you have in all your classes, plus any racial Hit Dice you have. A human 5th-level fighter/5th-level wizard has 10 character levels. An ogre 5th-level fighter/5th-level wizard has 14 character levels (because it has 4 racial Hit Dice). Character levels determine when you gain feats and ability score increases (see Table 3–2: Experience and Level-Dependent Benefits in the Player’s Handbook). Any feat you get by virtue of your character level is in addition to any bonus feats from your class levels.
BugHunter 05-03-07, 08:27 PM	If you have access to Races of Faerun on page 7 under the heading 'Feat and Abliity Score Increases' gives a good description of when you get feats.
runestar 05-03-07, 10:08 PM	Just to clarify things, character lv = no.of HD. It is Effective character lv which is HD+LA.:)