Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 09-04-07, 04:12 PM	So, last night I was going through Monster Manual IV again and the voor caught my attention. I end up playing Planescape often enough up at college, and a yugoloth mercenary sounded like an interesting idea. Especially when I read more. It just really reminded of a main character in a story I've been working on (I started on it two years before I even knew D&D involved dice - I'm named after its main character). So I decided to consider playing a voor sometime. The problem: no LA listed. So I found Yaba the What's Feature Points system and tried to calculate the LA. My calculations resulted in 410 feature points - corresponding to an ECL of 11 + class levels. Taking into account the 5 racial HD, I have a LA of +6. For a CR 4 monster! This can't be right, can it? And that's after I looked at the picture and wrote off a lot of magic item slots - no rings, boots, hats, goggles, or a few other things. And while I'm here, I might as well discuss where I could take this. As a mercenary, a melee class would be a good option. Fighter or ranger or something. Maybe sword sage. WIS takes the smallest hit. Or I could go into a class with sneak attack and take the feat sneak attack of opportunity. Tentacles with 20 ft reach + sneak attack = win. Maybe a lurk. Using the tracker variant. Or a spellthief could be neat. Combine 20 ft reach with mage slayer for the win. Who cares about the CHA hit? It's not like his spellthief spells are what I'm playing him for. That might even suit Kre-Nahk pretty well, if I then invest in item creation feats. The inspiring Kre-Nahk is a mercenary in love with combat, but he also has this incredible armor patched together from combat trophies. The problem is, sneak attack classes have low hit dice, and he's already lacking from LA. And he's a definite melee combatant. The BAB hit will also hurt. In their favor is the skill points, but with -6 INT, that won't be a strength. Maybe a fighter gaining sneak attack in place of feats?
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 09-06-07, 12:56 PM	:bump: So, no thoughts? Did I misuse Yaba the What's feature points, or did it not just calculate right, or is a voor really that powerful?
Rustmonster 09-06-07, 06:02 PM	No, it's just that that feature point system is not a very good judge of actual power levels. It's just one random guys attempt at figuring it all out, which is a noble cause in itself, but it's just not that easy. Power levels in D&D arn't that cut-and-dry, so it just doesn't work.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 09-06-07, 10:46 PM	I guess I already suspect as much, since I was questioning the results. But what do you think? LA +3? Maybe +2? DR 10/good, amazing STR bonus, natural attacks, some with 20 ft reach, and rend are the main benefits of being a voor.
Rustmonster 09-07-07, 08:59 AM	Well, I have no idea what they are actually like, so I can't help you there.
InversnaidRollrock 09-07-07, 09:10 AM	If you have some money, Wizards has created a book entitled "Savage Species", and it goes through how to calculate level adjustments. It includes many abilities that might come up, and seems fairly accurate. if you look on amazon right now it is selling for $7 used. you can also search inside to preview the parts that you would like to use (hint: search for 'introductory', and go to page 7). You can't read the whole book, but you will probably see things that you like. Unfortunately I do not have the monster manual 5, and since it goes for $20 used I am not ready to get it yet. :P
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 09-07-07, 02:15 PM	If you have some money, Wizards has created a book entitled "Savage Species", and it goes through how to calculate level adjustments. It includes many abilities that might come up, and seems fairly accurate. if you look on amazon right now it is selling for $7 used. you can also search inside to preview the parts that you would like to use (hint: search for 'introductory', and go to page 7). You can't read the whole book, but you will probably see things that you like. Unfortunately I do not have the monster manual 5, and since it goes for $20 used I am not ready to get it yet. :P Thanks. Those preview pages were handy. Just one question: how does it take into account racial hit dice? I mean, all but the most underpowered of classes grant decent abilities along with the stuff that by necessity comes with added hit dice. Is there any way to judge what I could consider "appropriate class features" for my hit dice? The way I see it, only things beyond that scope actually warrant a level adjustment.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 09-07-07, 02:44 PM	Thanks. Those preview pages were handy. Just one question: how does it take into account racial hit dice? I mean, all but the most underpowered of classes grant decent abilities along with the stuff that by necessity comes with added hit dice. Is there any way to judge what I could consider "appropriate class features" for my hit dice? The way I see it, only things beyond that scope actually warrant a level adjustment. You're on the right train of thought there. Most people don't realize that with the current system you effectively pay twice for abilities. Once with crappy racial HD and again with LA. As for the Voor, it's a strong LA+3.
Rustmonster 09-07-07, 04:06 PM	You're on the right train of thought there. Most people don't realize that with the current system you effectively pay twice for abilities. Once with crappy racial HD and again with LA. As for the Voor, it's a strong LA+3. Amen to that.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 09-09-07, 07:17 PM	Amen to that. Good to know I've got support. It seems really obvious, but then again, common sense isn't all that common. But I think WotC is planning on fixing it in 4e, based on what I've heard about races. Though it might make monstrous races even harder to play unless official rulings for it are given. I hope not. LA +3. Thanks. That's handy.