Post/Author/DateTime	Post
enygmatic_me 01-15-07, 11:54 PM	" The smell of cooking meat had caught the attention of Vehx’s growling stomach. The aroma was nearly intoxicating to the hungry Feral. It took a few minutes for Vehx to first spot the light from the cooking fire and only a few more to clear the distance to the camp. Not wishing to surprise the small band around the camp fire Vehx pulled up short and slowly approached. He could tell that the band was comprised of orcs, mostly, and a human woman that was tied up off to the side. Vehx made his presence known while trying to remain none threatening. One of the orcs picked up his weapon and made his way toward him. The meat was good, surprisingly good for orc fair. The human woman hadn’t stopped talking since Vehx had cut her free, though she did give an occasional disturbed look at the pile of orc carcasses. Good food, adequate company, and a rollicking good fight. Vehx hadn’t even considered that the night might go this well. He could only imagine what tomorrow might hold”. Personality: Playful in times of peace and vicious in battle the Feral is a child of nature in nearly all ways. To their friends the are fiercely loyal, to their enemies the are as ever present as the baying hounds on the trail of wanted criminal. Physical Description: The head of the Feral appears as a mix of canine and ursine features. Long, sharp canines can be prominently seen in it short, blunt snout. Keen eyes sit under a heavy brow ridge and long, pointed canine ears are placed upon their broad skull. The tall, powerful body of the Feral is supported on legs that seem too short for a creature of their size. In contrast the powerful arms of the Feral are longer then usual and end in clawed hands. Fur covers the body of the Feral and can be found in all the colors found in nature. It is not uncommon for the fur of a Feral to gradually change color to adapt to their surroundings. Gender--Base Height--Height Modifier--Base Weight--Weight Modifier Male---------72”---------2d4----------280 lb.----------x3 Female-------70”---------2d4----------255 lb.----------x3 Relations: Feral judge others by their actions not by who or what they are. Though this often leads to Feral being taken advantage of it also means that Feral are capable of building strong friendships with some of the most unlikely of races. Alignment: Feral tend to be wild and unpredictable. The majority of Feral tend to be chaotic with the remainder being neutral and the rare few following a more lawful way of life. Feral are split relatively equally along the axis of good and evil. Homeland Feral are nomadic by nature and can be found in nearly any land and climate. As Feral grow older they occasional stake out a small section of land to settle in as their territory. This territory is seldom larger than a few acres. Religion: Feral tend to live by their wit and instincts, never really giving consideration to the fact that a higher power maybe at work. Those that do worship a god tend to chose from nature gods with a few choosing to worship gods or war. Language Sylvan and Common (speak only). Bonus Languages: Any (subject to DM approval). Names: Feral have given names and nicknames that represent achievements or characteristics of the individual. Due to the keen sense of smell possessed by the Feral they are capable of identifying family lines by scent. Male Names: Brohg, Garl, Halsk, Jyn, and Vehx Female Names: Agleera, Coveen, Frala, Kyrjn, and Pani Nick Names: Bloodeye, Fiendeater, Greatclaw, and Quickhunter Adventure: Due to the nomadic nature of Feral they can be found traveling in any of the great wilds of the world. Though many tend to be uncomfortable in bigger cities and often avoid them it is not uncommon for the curious nature of the Feral to out weigh this discomfort. Racial Traits +4 Strength, +0 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, -4 Intelligence, +0 Wisdom, -2 Charisma: Feral are a powerful, hardy race that are surprisingly nimble. Ferals do not study or proscribe to the concepts of higher learning and tend to be gruff and blunt in mannerism. Medium Size: As medium sized creatures the Feral gain no benefits or penalties. Move: 20’. Due to their short legs Ferals do not move as quickly as other races of equal size. Natural Armor: The tough hide of the Feral provides a +1 natural armor bonus. Scent (Ex): This special quality allows a Feral to detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell. Feral can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights. Feral can detect opponents within 30 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 60 feet; if downwind, it drops to 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal range. When a Feral detects a scent, the exact location of the source is not revealed—only its presence somewhere within range. Feral can take a move action to note the direction of the scent. Whenever the Feral comes within 5 feet of the source, they pinpoint the source’s location. Feral with the Track feat and the scent ability can follow tracks by smell, making a Wisdom (or Survival) check to find or follow a track. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10 (no matter what kind of surface holds the scent). This DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry’s odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Track feat. Feral tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility. Low-light Vision: The Feral can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illuminations. They retain their ability to distinguish color and details under these conditions +2 Listen and Spot check rolls Natural Attack: Claw (1d4, 20/x2) Fur Coat: Due to their fur coat Feral deal better with extreme cold than most humanoids, suffering no affect from temperatures of 90° to 0° F. A Feral exposed to temperatures below 0° F must make a Fortitude save each hour (DC 15, + 1 per previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. A character who has the Survival skill may receive a bonus on this saving throw and may be able to apply this bonus to other characters as well (see the skill Description). Exposure below -20° F an unprotected Feral must make a Fortitude save once every 10 minutes (DC 15, +1 per previous check), taking 1d6 points of nonlethal damage on each failed save. A Feral who has the Survival skill may receive a bonus on this saving throw and may be able to apply this bonus to other characters as well (see the skill description). Characters wearing winter clothing only need check once per hour for cold and exposure damage. A Feral who takes any nonlethal damage from cold or exposure is beset by frostbite or hypothermia (treat as fatigued). These penalties end when the Feral recovers the nonlethal damage taken from the cold and exposure. Exposure to temperatures below –40° F deals 1d6 points of lethal damage per minute (no save). In addition, a character must make a Fortitude save (DC 15, +1 per previous check) or take 1d4 points of nonlethal damage. Those wearing metal armor or coming into contact with very cold metal are affected as if by a chill metal spell. Gallop: By using its long, powerful arms to aid in movement the Feral may move double their normal speed as a standard move action. To do this a Feral may be not carry anything in either hand and carrying no more than than a medium load. A Feral using gallop may not draw a weapon as part of their move action. Illiterate: As creatures of the wild places Feral never developed reading or writing skills, nor did they ever see a use for it. A Feral may spend 2 Skill Points (4 if Barbarian) to gain literacy. Favored Class: Ranger LA +1 Racial Feats Razor Claw Prerequisites: BAB+8, Must possess a natural claw attack. The claws of the Feral are capable of delivering grievous wounds. Increase the critical multiplier for the Feral’s claw attacks to x3.
Krusk 01-16-07, 12:16 AM	Are they illeterate no matter what class they play? cause that sort of limits the classes available. Can they spend skill points to get around this? you could never see a wizard/artificer/archivist one of these. Im no good on balancing races so no help there. But i was cursious about that.
enygmatic_me 01-16-07, 12:32 AM	Are they illeterate no matter what class they play? cause that sort of limits the classes available. Can they spend skill points to get around this? you could never see a wizard/artificer/archivist one of these. Im no good on balancing races so no help there. But i was cursious about that. If you look at the Racial Feats I made for them at the bottom of the post I gave them the ability to become literate by taking the Drawn Words feat.
Krusk 01-16-07, 11:26 PM	Ok, i didnt look at those. But spending a feat to become literate seems really harsh. Especially when everyone else only needs 2 skill points. I'd suggest letting them buy it as normal, but it cost 4 skill points for barbarians.
enygmatic_me 01-17-07, 04:52 AM	Ok, i didnt look at those. But spending a feat to become literate seems really harsh. Especially when everyone else only needs 2 skill points. I'd suggest letting them buy it as normal, but it cost 4 skill points for barbarians. Yeah, you have a good point. I'll change that.
Azar_of_Faerun 01-17-07, 05:04 AM	Feral Peach, fruit with attitude.
enygmatic_me 01-17-07, 02:54 PM	Feral Peach, fruit with attitude. Not to be confused with the Savage Nectarine!
Kayli 01-20-07, 03:18 AM	this race seems pretty cool, there is just 2 things. 1, lets start with scent 60' I would use the scent description from the monsters manual (making it Type (EX)), unless you mean for his scent ability to be a blindsight (In which case it should be Type (SU)). If that is the case you should describe it a little more thuroughly. 2. Saber Claw exists as a feat already it is called Improved Natural Attack and it requires a +4 BAB, which puts Saber Claw as slightly overpowered. I would instead make it a racail trait (EX). I would also give a BAB requirement to Razor Claw (keeping it as a Feat) and give it a Type [general], removing the feral Requiremetn and replacing it with a Natral Attack with a claw. Actually while im thinking about the claws, it should have attack: claw, claw (1d6, 20/x2) Otherwise a very well thought out race, I could really see myself playing a Feral Ranger
enygmatic_me 01-20-07, 05:00 AM	this race seems pretty cool, there is just 2 things. 1, lets start with scent 60' I would use the scent description from the monsters manual (making it Type (EX)), unless you mean for his scent ability to be a blindsight (In which case it should be Type (SU)). If that is the case you should describe it a little more thuroughly. 2. Saber Claw exists as a feat already it is called Improved Natural Attack and it requires a +4 BAB, which puts Saber Claw as slightly overpowered. I would instead make it a racail trait (EX). I would also give a BAB requirement to Razor Claw (keeping it as a Feat) and give it a Type [general], removing the feral Requiremetn and replacing it with a Natral Attack with a claw. Actually while im thinking about the claws, it should have attack: claw, claw (1d6, 20/x2) Otherwise a very well thought out race, I could really see myself playing a Feral Ranger Thanks for the input. I will change the Scent description to the one from the MM. I see your point on Sabre Claw and I agree. I had originally thought that giving the First Level only restriction would balance it, but your right. Who wouldn't take it as their first level considering what it gives. It's basically like giving fighters weapon specialization at first level, not a good idea. Thanks again.
enygmatic_me 01-20-07, 04:40 PM	So, after responding to Kayli the board updates started so I am now getting the updates posted.
ArochanoX 01-20-07, 06:11 PM	I think your feral is much more than la +1. Bacause of few things: +4 str, +2 con aren't negated with -4 penalty to int and cha. This race would clearly outshine other la +1 barbarians or fighter archetypes. Even straight half-orc or human barbarian 2. Figters and even more barbarians have no need whatsoever for intelligence or charisma. Natural armor +2. Free +2 AC for a fighter archetype. Nice boon. Scent is a very powerful ability. Even for a la +1 creature. Reconsider atleast this. Fur coat is nice. Though the ability is rules-wise really obscure. Read freezing rules and cold damage descriptions from frostburn to get more accurate rules. This ability could be powerful (campaing-dependend though) Gallop. Yeah. The only real penalty this race has (20ft speed) is nicely made obsolete with this ability. The ability itself is nice, but because it removes the sole penalty of this race, it's bad. Illiterate and the mental ability score penalties are worth almost nothing for a fighter archetype. So a very powerful race. To fix I recommend following: +2 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha (makes some build more playable and gives a serious penalty. Still very good array for a fighter archetype.) Speed 20ft (as before. A slight penalty) Natural armor 2 (as before. Nicely counters -2 dex penalty to AC, but the touch AC is still lower.) Feral can buy scent ability with a feat if Feral has atleast 6 ranks in spot and wisdom score 13 or better. (slightly less powerful but still very useful option.) +2 racial bonus on listen and spot checks. Basic stuff. Nothing special here for a wilderness-liver. To tone down, I would change this to alertness bonus feat, but this is okay as well. Natural attack: claws. Powerful claws as before and can be upgraded to d8. Nice, but not gamebreaking. Furcoat (ex): As endure elements (cold) spell. If you want more complex options, check frostburn. Also +2 racial bonus on hide checks when in rocky or snowy areas. There's absolutely no reason to give one-colored creature racial bonus regardless of terrain. Gray or black+white fits nicely to snow and rock. Gallop. Nice. But make it usable only if unarmored and when in light load. Both hands must be free. Illiterate. Quite useless, but I'll let it be. Favored class: barbarian. Yeah yeah Automatic language: Common or orc (player chooses) Bonus languages: none There's no reason for a feral creature to learn more than 1 language. LA +1. So in conclusion, I toned down almost every ability and made it overall more capable instead of being concentrated only for brute fighting. This race would now make a good cleric, druid, barbarian, fighter, ranger and monk. A decent rogue. A poor sorcerer, wizard, paladin and bard. This is like wildren race from planar handbook or a slightly more powerful half-orc. I like the idea. Also. Name the race something more than a feral. And rename the thread to be something else than a feral peach. Savage Nectarine type of jokes do not make this race look good. Feral is also a template in savage species which may confuse some people.
BluEnigma 01-20-07, 06:43 PM	Feral is also a template in savage species which may confuse some people. But wouldn't it be fun to have a Feral Feral?
enygmatic_me 01-21-07, 03:04 AM	I think your feral is much more than la +1. Bacause of few things: +4 str, +2 con aren't negated with -4 penalty to int and cha. This race would clearly outshine other la +1 barbarians or fighter archetypes. Even straight half-orc or human barbarian 2. Figters and even more barbarians have no need whatsoever for intelligence or charisma. +4 Str, +2 Con, -4 Int, -2 Cha. I think that is pretty balanced, but I could be wrong. Most races fit one stereo type better than the rest. I don't think that is really an issue when it comes to most players. I would like to hear what others think before making any changes in this area. Natural armor +2. Free +2 AC for a fighter archetype. Nice boon. Yes it is. I have been considering reducing it to a +1. Scent is a very powerful ability. Even for a la +1 creature. Reconsider atleast this. The ability has a short range with situational modifiers. It can be very powerful in games that don't take such things into consideration. In games that do I feel it is beneficial, but not overpowered. Fur coat is nice. Though the ability is rules-wise really obscure. Read freezing rules and cold damage descriptions from frostburn to get more accurate rules. This ability could be powerful (campaing-dependend though) I don't own Frostburn, though I have looked over the rules in the DMG on temperature exposure and will be making some changes to have Fur Coat works to more accurately reflect the rules. As to campaign depandent power boosts, I don't take those into consideration as it is impossible (and illogical) to try to consider every possible campaign. Besides, to take campaign dependent situations in to consideration is to unfairly penalize they race when not being played in those campaigns. Gallop. Yeah. The only real penalty this race has (20ft speed) is nicely made obsolete with this ability. The ability itself is nice, but because it removes the sole penalty of this race, it's bad. Gallop also comes with it's own penalties (and I am going to add another). Currently you can't be really carrying any weapons while galloping. This limits their melee combat capabilities. So a Feral using a two handed weapon will need to spend an action drawing and sheathing his weapon if looking to use gallop. A Feral can't draw their weapon as part of a move action (some I should specify in the description) as they are using their arms to move so can't be drawing a weapon at that time. Also, if wearing Armor heavier than light their move is reduced to 15' and their gallop is only 30' making them only average. Illiterate and the mental ability score penalties are worth almost nothing for a fighter archetype. So a very powerful race. I can only speak for myself and the group I game with. Illiteracy is a huge penalty. As to mental ability score penalties being worthless to fighter archetypes, they are no more worthless than str penalties to primary caster types. It's an argument I don't agree with. The int penalty is also a problematic for skill monkey classes. Cha penalties are more than just your character not getting the pretty girl or handsome prince. The race may be better suited to the fighting arts, but to say that is all a player is going to make with them is like saying no one will ever play a half-orc paladin or a halfling fighter. To fix I recommend following: +2 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha (makes some build more playable and gives a serious penalty. Still very good array for a fighter archetype.) I just don't agree with this approach. I have never really understood the "second class citizen" denotation of Charisma. If it isn't as important as the other abilities, what was the purpose of having it as an ability in the first place. Speed 20ft (as before. A slight penalty) OK. Natural armor 2 (as before. Nicely counters -2 dex penalty to AC, but the touch AC is still lower.) Already addressed my outlook on the -2 Dex. Feral can buy scent ability with a feat if Feral has atleast 6 ranks in spot and wisdom score 13 or better. (slightly less powerful but still very useful option.) And very restrictive considering how few classes have spot as a class skill. Feral, as a race, are far more reliant on all of their senses than more races. I don't see scent as over powered as you do, so I am not sure if we are going to agree on this. +2 racial bonus on listen and spot checks. Basic stuff. Nothing special here for a wilderness-liver. To tone down, I would change this to alertness bonus feat, but this is okay as well. Again, I think it is a better representation of the race to have the +2 to listen and spot. Natural attack: claws. Powerful claws as before and can be upgraded to d8. Nice, but not gamebreaking. Actually I returned the damage to d4 as to further enhance the limitations of gallop. Besides, having claws already qualifies the race to take Improved Natural Attack once they reach a BAB of +4 as pointed out by Kayli. Furcoat (ex): As endure elements (cold) spell. If you want more complex options, check frostburn. Also +2 racial bonus on hide checks when in rocky or snowy areas. There's absolutely no reason to give one-colored creature racial bonus regardless of terrain. Gray or black+white fits nicely to snow and rock. Still ruminating on exactly how I am going to handle the extreme weather. As to hide, that doesn't address Feral that may live in the Forests, Jungle, or Savannahs of the world. The way I have it now is like a weakened version of the chameleon ability. Gallop. Nice. But make it usable only if unarmored and when in light load. Both hands must be free. I am going to add a load penalty, but I am not sure about a armor penalty. I created another race that I used armor penalties to balance a racial ability and someone made the very good point that a race would learn to adapt to situations like this. If a horse can gallop in plate barding it is logical to assume that a race like this could as well. Illiterate. Quite useless, but I'll let it be. That is your opinion, and you are definitely entitled to it, but I don't agree. Favored class: barbarian. Yeah yeah Automatic language: Common or orc (player chooses) Why Orc? Bonus languages: none There's no reason for a feral creature to learn more than 1 language. Why do you feel they would they have no reason to learn more than one language? LA +1. So in conclusion, I toned down almost every ability and made it overall more capable instead of being concentrated only for brute fighting. This race would now make a good cleric, druid, barbarian, fighter, ranger and monk. A decent rogue. A poor sorcerer, wizard, paladin and bard. This is like wildren race from planar handbook or a slightly more powerful half-orc. I like the idea. I appreciate your opinions and suggestions. I do have some things to think about. I don't have the planar handbook so I may have to go out and look at the wildren race. Also. Name the race something more than a feral. And rename the thread to be something else than a feral peach. Savage Nectarine type of jokes do not make this race look good. Feral is also a template in savage species which may confuse some people. I know Feral isn't the best name, but I really couldn't think of anything that captured the idea of what the race was supposed to be. I'll have to work on it. If I do think of something, do you (or anyone) know how to change the title of a post, or will I have to repost it? As to the Savage Nectarine joke, I really don't see being able to laugh at myself a little is a detriment to the race work up. If anything, I feel it helps derail what could turn into far worse situations.
ArochanoX 01-21-07, 04:45 AM	Wildren are an outsider race that live in the Beastlands. They recieve +4 bonus on constitution but -2 penalty to dexterity and charisma. Wildren speed is like dwarf's. Wildrens have a slow burrow speed. Wildrens have darkvision and scent. Wildrens have natural claw attacks. Wildrens can enter into some sort of rage. Wildrens are stable as dwarves are. LA +1. If you compare wildren and your feral between each other, I'd say that the Feral has better ability scores. Both Feral and Wildren have Scent, natural attacks and same speed. Then for wildren's burrow speed, darkvision, stability and rage, Feral has +2 natural armor, fur coat, gallop and somewhat better ability scores. These both races are very similar flufficly and somewhat similar rules-wise. I bet that if you had had the knowledge of Wildrens before, you wouldn't done this feral race. For fighter archtype I would choose Feral over Wildren because feral is just better for closecombat fighters. For good gameplay, fluff and options, I would choose Wildren over Feral. Though it's just me. Find the Wildren somewhere and read it. It should atleast give you some ideas about the balance. I checked. Wildren cannot be found from crystal keep.
enygmatic_me 01-21-07, 03:25 PM	I figured a side by side comparison, based on what you had given here, might help me figure this out. These are how I saw it. Feral / Wildren Comparison Feral----------Wildren----------Advantage Humanoid--------Outsider---------Wildren Being an Outsider comes with resistances and immunities that Humanoids don’t have. Ability End Result +0-----Ability End Result +0----Tie I don’t see how the Feral have better ability modifiers. Even if we do consider that Charisma is of lesser importance then the other ability scores the Wildren have better features over all. Move 20, Affected By Armor------Move 20, Not Affected by Armor------Wildren Being able to move 20 in full plate is better than not being able to. Gallop----------Burrow----------Wildren Double move speed or dig through solid rock. Dig through solid rock wins. Scent----------Scent----------Tie Tie sums it up. Low Light Vision------Darkvision-------Wildren The Ability to see further in poor lighting vs. the ability to see in no lighting. See in no lighting wins. d4 Claws------d? Claws------Unclear You didn’t tell me what the damage on their claws was so I couldn’t fairly compare these. At best it is a tie. Most likely the advantage goes to the Wildren. Nat AC +2------Rage-like Ability------Unclear Nat AC is constant, but I don’t now what the Wildren gain from the rage or how often they can use the ability so I couldn’t make a proper comparison. Fur Coat------Stable------Wildren The Ability to deal better with cold weather or the ability to resists trips and bull rush. Stable wins. Illiterate------??????------Wildren Illiteracy, in my opinion, is a big issue. The Wildren don’t have any penalties or benefits left so this still goes to the Wildren. If the Wildren are an LA+1, I don't see why the Feral should be an LA+2 or greater.
Thief_of_Hope 01-21-07, 08:05 PM	I like this race. It offers good flavor and gameplay, and each aspect of them is clearly lined out. I also think the mini-story outlined the feral personality pretty well. I'm no pro, but I think it looks like a balanced race, myself. I'm definitely going to play a feral sometime in the future. Nice work.
enygmatic_me 01-22-07, 03:35 AM	I like this race. It offers good flavor and gameplay, and each aspect of them is clearly lined out. I also think the mini-story outlined the feral personality pretty well. I'm no pro, but I think it looks like a balanced race, myself. I'm definitely going to play a feral sometime in the future. Nice work. Thanks. This is an idea that has been percolating in my mind for a while. Once I am sure that the race itself is balanced I think I am going to work on a Paragon Class for them as well.
enygmatic_me 01-23-07, 02:33 PM	Reduced the bonus to strength and the penalty to intelligence as well as the natural armor.
Kayli 01-23-07, 06:47 PM	One other thing you forgot to mention enygmatic_me, a Feral, being a huminoid is subject to Hold Person, where as the Wildren being Outsider, are not. of course then again, he is targetable by enlarge person, while the Wildren is not.
enygmatic_me 01-23-07, 11:26 PM	Yeah, I am still debating if the changes I have made are necessary. Compared to what you gain for being an outsider, the loses are not all that much.
Thief_of_Hope 01-28-07, 03:30 PM	Personally, I was fond of how they were originally. That may just be me, though, and it still looks like a fun race. As it is now, though, I personally think it looks more like a +0 LA. Have the Feral been measured up on LA after the change? Looking at the comparison to Wildren you had, the Feral look less powerful, enough so that, imho, they wouldn't have the LA Wildren have.
enygmatic_me 01-29-07, 02:09 AM	Yeah, I changed it back. After looking at races like Centaurs (who are an LA +2) I didn't see Feral needing to be changed or have their LA increased. Thanks for the feedback everyone.
ArochanoX 01-29-07, 02:34 AM	Enygmatic_me, centaurs aren't a viable choice for comparsion since they have racial hit dice. Remember that ECL is Racial Hit Dice + Level Adjustment. So centaur isn't actually comparable to your feral template. For some comparsion points, check out wildren (planar handbook as mentioned before), goliath (races of stone), hobgoblin (monster manual), orc (monster manual), half-ogre (races of destiny) and maybe others. Do not compare to feral template (savage species) or corrupted template (book of vile darkness), since they're broken.
enygmatic_me 01-30-07, 09:49 PM	Ok, I made another comparison. This time with a Flind (LA+2). I did not use the racial HD or anything expressly gained from them in this comparrison. Feral Flind +0 Ability Modifier Total +16 Ability Modifier Total Medium Size Medium Size Move 20 Move 30 +1 Natural AC +2 Natural AC Low-light Vision Darkvision 60’ 1d4 Claw Weapon Familiarity: Flindbar Scent Gallop Fur Coat Illiterate I still think that the Flind, as a race, are more powerful then the Feral so I am still not convinced that the Feral should be an LA+2. If they were to be made an LA+2 they would be a weak LA+2. As they stand though, they may be a powerful LA +1. So, I need to figure out if they are fine as is or, if not, should I take away to make then a more balanced +1 or add to make them a more balanced +2? Insight would be appreciated.
Kayli 01-30-07, 11:49 PM	It looks pretty good to me.
Krusk 01-31-07, 09:33 AM	I think the LA for a feral is pretty much on, but a reason the flind may look so powerful is that you said you were not looking at racial hit die? those are usually put in an effort to tone down a LA. could be part of the problem. try comparing them to something LA 2 without hit die. like half ogre or something.
enygmatic_me 01-31-07, 01:29 PM	I think the LA for a feral is pretty much on, but a reason the flind may look so powerful is that you said you were not looking at racial hit die? those are usually put in an effort to tone down a LA. could be part of the problem. try comparing them to something LA 2 without hit die. like half ogre or something. Flind get 2d8 HD and the LA+2. What I am thinking of doing is just making up a couple of character builds. One, a Flind with one level of either Cleric or Druid or something else with a D8 HD and a Feral with three levels of a class with D8 HD and see how they compare that way. Might give me a clearer picture of balance.
Thief_of_Hope 02-26-07, 11:16 PM	:bump: :D I was looking in the Frostburn book, saw the Neanderthal, and thought of the Feral. It might make an okay comparison race along with the Flind, since they don't have a racial hit die or a level adjustment. Although I can't say anything usable about the Neanderthal without breaking rules, I think I can say that it shares several traits with the feral, including having Str and Con bonuses, Int penalties, Spot/Listen bonuses, the auto-illiteracy in any class (although a Neanderthal barbarian spends only 2 skill points to become literate) and the cold weather adaption (although the Neanderthal's applies for a lower temperature AND works at high temperatures too). In addition to such qualities as these, Neanderthals also have a bonus on attack rolls with several rather common and useful weapons. Looking at the Neanderthal, I personally believe the Feral to be well-balanced as it is. I highly suggest, if you have access to the book, taking a look at the Neanderthal for a comparison to the Feral. Hope this helps in some way. :) Oh, and please please PLEASE make the Feral paragon class, I really REALLY want to see it!
enygmatic_me 02-26-07, 11:21 PM	:bump: :D I was looking in the Frostburn book, saw the Neanderthal, and thought of the Feral. It might make an okay comparison race along with the Flind, since they don't have a racial hit die or a level adjustment. Although I can't say anything usable about the Neanderthal without breaking rules, I think I can say that it shares several traits with the feral, including having Str and Con bonuses, Int penalties, Spot/Listen bonuses, the auto-illiteracy in any class (although a Neanderthal barbarian spends only 2 skill points to become literate) and the cold weather adaption (although the Neanderthal's applies for a lower temperature AND works at high temperatures too). In addition to such qualities as these, Neanderthals also have a bonus on attack rolls with several rather common and useful weapons. Looking at the Neanderthal, I personally believe the Feral to be well-balanced as it is. I highly suggest, if you have access to the book, taking a look at the Neanderthal for a comparison to the Feral. Hope this helps in some way. :) Oh, and please please PLEASE make the Feral paragon class, I really REALLY want to see it! I haven't bought any of the Environment setting books, though I am starting to think I should have. I will have to, at least, go up to the book store and take a peek at the Neanderthal. Thanks for letting me know about it.