Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 07-21-07, 11:07 PM	A race that i've been thinking about.......yes, i have a ferret :D . Suddenly you see a small, black figure about the size of a small cat pop out of the bushes and scurry down the path. As you look closer, you notice something on it's back so you follow it to investigate. Suddenly, the creature comes to a sudden halt and begins to stand up straight on it's hind legs however it's back still maintains a curve which gives it a hunchback appearance. As you look closer, you realize what you thought to be a ferret, is obviously not as there is a gleam of intelligence as well as a hint of hatred in its eye. Finally, you find out what was on it's back as it pulls out a miniature great sword and gives a display of it's obviously great dexterity by twirling it in one hand before ending in an offensive position. Suddenly, you feel something small drop onto your back as you feel a cold flash of steel against your neck and you hear a slightly squeaky voice with a hint of suspicion and hatred whisper in your ear saying, "Why are you here........." Ferret Folk are nomadic hunters and live much like elves. They most commonly live in holes underground or in trees, depending entirely on the land. Usually their way of life is sometimes associated with savagery but this is normally untrue as they are only slightly less intelligent than other "more civilized" races. Like Wizened Elders (MM4), they aren't necessarily evil, however they are extremely suspicious of all outsiders, normally sending the more experienced scouts to take the invader(s) hostage until they get a good explanation as to why they were there. Despite their uneasy disposition, Ferret Folk adventurers are actually quite common, seeing as they're big risk takers and quite playful and hyperactive if they trust you and they make exceptional scouts, rogues, rangers, druids, and especially spellcasters such as sorcerors. They have a high charisma and are somewhat dexteritous and low strength and a little lower than average intelligence. They also have an uncanny ability to dodge attacks and escape grapples in which they gain a +1 bonus to AC and a +3 bonus to escape grapples. Also, they are resistant to nonlethal damage and being small, they are also tiny size and are only slightly different in appearance from a normal ferret (DC 15 spot check to determine the difference) Racial Traits: Monstrous Humanoid or Humanoid? -4 str, +2 dex, -2 int, +4 cha Size Tiny: ??? Ferret Folk have very poor vision and take a -3 penalty on spot checks. A Ferret Folk's base land speed is 20 ft. Ferret Folk gain a +1 bonus to AC and a +3 bonus to escape grapples Natural attacks: bite (1d2) All Ferret Folk take a +2 bonus on climb as well as any charisma based skill Automatic Languages: Draconic, Elven Bonus Languages: Gnoll, Goblin, Giant, Common Favored Class: Druid or Sorceror LA: +1
Draginja 07-22-07, 04:39 PM	Nice job with this race. It really captures the essence of ferrets. Since they could be considered awakened animals, they are monstruous humanoids (one head, two arms, two legs, but animalisatic features). I would add Scent to their abilities, since ferrets rely strongly on smell and they otherwise do not deserve +1 LA. So either add scent or remove the LA.
Lawlicron 07-22-07, 04:46 PM	Nice job with this race. It really captures the essence of ferrets. Since they could be considered awakened animals, they are monstruous humanoids (one head, two arms, two legs, but animalisatic features). I would add Scent to their abilities, since ferrets rely strongly on smell and they otherwise do not deserve +1 LA. So either add scent or remove the LA. Being Tiny is an incredible benefit, seeing as how these things are only going to be played as sorcerers. The bonuses to all charisma based skills is also a lot. The Natural weapon is almost useless so don't really count it. They for some reason also randomly get an extra +1 to AC on top of their size bonus and a bonus to escape artist. They also have two favored classes. This is at least an LA+2, if not an LA+3. The last thing they need is scent to bump up their LA.
Lionhearted 07-22-07, 05:09 PM	uneven bonus is never a good thing
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 07-22-07, 07:28 PM	Being Tiny is an incredible benefit, seeing as how these things are only going to be played as sorcerers. The bonuses to all charisma based skills is also a lot. The Natural weapon is almost useless so don't really count it. They for some reason also randomly get an extra +1 to AC on top of their size bonus and a bonus to escape artist. They also have two favored classes. This is at least an LA+2, if not an LA+3. The last thing they need is scent to bump up their LA. The reason i gave them a +1 bonus on AC and escape artist checks is because, well, have you ever tried to catch and hold onto a ferret? It's like holding onto a plastic bag full of pudding......only worse, when you grab them they just squirt out, and if you manage to really grab them, they suck in their gut on one side and transfer it out to the other side, that's how they can get the rest of their body through a hole as long as their head fits through it. I guess i won't really count the bite even though they do draw blood, also, i've looked into all possible causes of them being unbalanced and i think i've covered them, consider this, a longsword for them would only deal 1d2 damage, also they would have very little HP and they don't have two favorite classes......i'm asking which one would be best, also they have bad vision and (however i guess now they have scent, something i forgot about, thanks Draginja!) are slightly slower....i think it's pretty well balanced. One last thing. Draginja, i'll replace the bite with scent and make it LA +0, and also, they aren't the same as an anthromorphic ferret, that's like saying a Lizardfolk is the same as an anthromorphic dire lizard, instead it's the other way around, an anthromorphic ferret is the same thing as a Ferret Folk :) .................... P.S. who doesn't want a tiny playable creature?
ArgulFraster 07-22-07, 09:56 PM	Can I use these?
Lawlicron 07-22-07, 10:44 PM	The reason i gave them a +1 bonus on AC and escape artist checks is because, well, have you ever tried to catch and hold onto a ferret? It's like holding onto a plastic bag full of pudding......only worse, when you grab them they just squirt out, and if you manage to really grab them, they suck in their gut on one side and transfer it out to the other side, that's how they can get the rest of their body through a hole as long as their head fits through it. I guess i won't really count the bite even though they do draw blood, also, i've looked into all possible causes of them being unbalanced and i think i've covered them, consider this, a longsword for them would only deal 1d2 damage, also they would have very little HP and they don't have two favorite classes......i'm asking which one would be best, also they have bad vision and (however i guess now they have scent, something i forgot about, thanks Draginja!) are slightly slower....i think it's pretty well balanced. One last thing. Draginja, i'll replace the bite with scent and make it LA +0, and also, they aren't the same as an anthromorphic ferret, that's like saying a Lizardfolk is the same as an anthromorphic dire lizard, instead it's the other way around, an anthromorphic ferret is the same thing as a Ferret Folk :) .................... P.S. who doesn't want a tiny playable creature? Ok, I'm glad you own a ferret and know all kinds of super cool things about them. Your probably the ferret expert in your parts. But hear me out, this is going to turn out bad if anyone in your group is even slightly interested in exploiting loop-holes that give them super powerful characters. They already have a + to AC, its a size bonus and its big. They also have a bonus to dex to help represent this. That covers why its hard to touch them to start a grapple in the first place. So they don't really need any extra AC bonuses. And its totally fine if they have a bonus on escape artist checks, just make it either +4 or +2. Ok, I'm now considering that when they wield weapons they do very poor damage. Now you consider this, how much does a fireball do when a ferret folk casts it? Does it deal 1d3 per level? Umm, nope. It deals 1d6 per level, and because that Ferret Folk has a huge bonus to Cha the DC to avoid it is going to be alot higher than one thrown from a human. Now you list them as having bad HP. Where is this? I see no con penalty, I see nothing that says "Ferret Folk have hit die one category smaller than their class gives", I see nothing giving them only half of each hit die. They are going to have the same amount of HP as any character of that level of the same class. A Ferret Folk takes his first level as barbarian still has 12+con mod of HP. A Ferret Folk that takes his first level as sorcerer still has 4+con mod of HP. Sorry I misinterpreted the two classes on the favored class line. Even if you make it Druid though, you are only going to see Ferret Folk sorcerers. I'm not nay saying this race to be mean, they would look cool. I'd love to break the game right in half with one as a sorcerer. I'm just giving you a heads up that this race does not work as an LA+0 race, they are going to destroy people as any spell casting class. Its at least an LA+2, LA+3 with scent. If you introduce this to a gaming group with any kind of eye for combos, there will be major problems.
Holy_Beholder 07-22-07, 11:46 PM	and escape grapples Ferret Folk gain a +1 bonus to AC and a +3 bonus to escape grapples There is no way a real ferret has anything less than +8 to escape grapples. I would change escape grapples to a bonus to the skill escape artist, they are slippery in general.
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 07-23-07, 12:28 PM	Ok, I'm glad you own a ferret and know all kinds of super cool things about them. Your probably the ferret expert in your parts. But hear me out, this is going to turn out bad if anyone in your group is even slightly interested in exploiting loop-holes that give them super powerful characters. They already have a + to AC, its a size bonus and its big. They also have a bonus to dex to help represent this. That covers why its hard to touch them to start a grapple in the first place. So they don't really need any extra AC bonuses. And its totally fine if they have a bonus on escape artist checks, just make it either +4 or +2. Ok, I'm now considering that when they wield weapons they do very poor damage. Now you consider this, how much does a fireball do when a ferret folk casts it? Does it deal 1d3 per level? Umm, nope. It deals 1d6 per level, and because that Ferret Folk has a huge bonus to Cha the DC to avoid it is going to be alot higher than one thrown from a human. Now you list them as having bad HP. Where is this? I see no con penalty, I see nothing that says "Ferret Folk have hit die one category smaller than their class gives", I see nothing giving them only half of each hit die. They are going to have the same amount of HP as any character of that level of the same class. A Ferret Folk takes his first level as barbarian still has 12+con mod of HP. A Ferret Folk that takes his first level as sorcerer still has 4+con mod of HP. Sorry I misinterpreted the two classes on the favored class line. Even if you make it Druid though, you are only going to see Ferret Folk sorcerers. I'm not nay saying this race to be mean, they would look cool. I'd love to break the game right in half with one as a sorcerer. I'm just giving you a heads up that this race does not work as an LA+0 race, they are going to destroy people as any spell casting class. Its at least an LA+2, LA+3 with scent. If you introduce this to a gaming group with any kind of eye for combos, there will be major problems. Point taken......hmm. I guess i'll go with one of those pieces of advice about the +2 to escape grapples and i'll also go with what Holy_Beholder said about the escape artist checks. So i take out the +3 to escape grapples and make it a +2 to escape artist checks (that's still pretty good, plus they aren't normal ferrets, they're a different race entirely.) I need some more ideas as to how they could be a LA +0 race so keep 'em coming! One last thing, i'm not the ferret expert in my parts, this just came from experience and yes, ArgulFraster you can use these.
Holy_Beholder 07-23-07, 03:49 PM	I would remove or at least tone down the charisma bonus, and make them use a will save to resist running toward large shiny objects(or small shiny objects, but its a much lower save) or something along those lines to represent the shiny addiction of ferrets.
Lawlicron 07-23-07, 11:05 PM	I would remove or at least tone down the charisma bonus, and make them use a will save to resist running toward large shiny objects(or small shiny objects, but its a much lower save) or something along those lines to represent the shiny addiction of ferrets. I agree on toning down the Cha bonus. A +4 to a mental stat can be a little overwhelming. However, I don't think you should add in the 'shiny objects' thing. I understand Ferrets have a natural instinct to collect shiny things, but your making a race that has an int above 2. With human intelligence they should be able to ponder their existence and contemplate heavy issues. They shouldn't worry about an instinct some throwback ancestor had. Besides, the mechanics are almost impossible to hammer down. It will always come out clunky trying to determine what is considered 'shiny' and what is an appropriate action to take against said 'shiny' object. If that were added I think they would become suicidally unplayable. Example: Ferret Folk Player(FFp): I run into the BBEG's lair with my friends! DM: Well, he has a shiny dagger, make a will save. FFp: Uh-oh, a 1. DM: Now you have a compulsion to try and wrangle it from him, go get it! FFp: Hurray I go first, well I'll just attack him so I can get it from his dead body. DM: That seems to be cutting past your races drawback. You have to grapple it away from him. FFp: But my grapple bonus is -10... Heres what I think could be done to help with balancing them out. You could reduce the bonus to Cha or remove it entirely and just give them bonuses on a few Cha related skills. To more represent the slippery nature of the ferret make their dex bonus a +4. Their stat adjustments could be -4 Str, +4 Dex, -2 Int. I know that way they come out with a total negative, but I think it will decrease abuse of them as wizards and promote a more rogue-ish or bardly life-style. Also being smaller than small is a bonus, not a negative. I think a neat way to represent their climbing ability would be to let them use Dex as the key ability for that skill instead of Str. Also, don't make them monstrous humanoids. They aren't affected by as many spells, and that will start to unbalance them. Humanoid will be fine, even if flavor wise they are more monstrous humanoid.
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 07-24-07, 08:34 AM	I agree on toning down the Cha bonus. A +4 to a mental stat can be a little overwhelming. However, I don't think you should add in the 'shiny objects' thing. I understand Ferrets have a natural instinct to collect shiny things, but your making a race that has an int above 2. With human intelligence they should be able to ponder their existence and contemplate heavy issues. They shouldn't worry about an instinct some throwback ancestor had. Besides, the mechanics are almost impossible to hammer down. It will always come out clunky trying to determine what is considered 'shiny' and what is an appropriate action to take against said 'shiny' object. If that were added I think they would become suicidally unplayable. Example: Ferret Folk Player(FFp): I run into the BBEG's lair with my friends! DM: Well, he has a shiny dagger, make a will save. FFp: Uh-oh, a 1. DM: Now you have a compulsion to try and wrangle it from him, go get it! FFp: Hurray I go first, well I'll just attack him so I can get it from his dead body. DM: That seems to be cutting past your races drawback. You have to grapple it away from him. FFp: But my grapple bonus is -10... Heres what I think could be done to help with balancing them out. You could reduce the bonus to Cha or remove it entirely and just give them bonuses on a few Cha related skills. To more represent the slippery nature of the ferret make their dex bonus a +4. Their stat adjustments could be -4 Str, +4 Dex, -2 Int. I know that way they come out with a total negative, but I think it will decrease abuse of them as wizards and promote a more rogue-ish or bardly life-style. Also being smaller than small is a bonus, not a negative. I think a neat way to represent their climbing ability would be to let them use Dex as the key ability for that skill instead of Str. Also, don't make them monstrous humanoids. They aren't affected by as many spells, and that will start to unbalance them. Humanoid will be fine, even if flavor wise they are more monstrous humanoid. I agree, i won't put in the addiction to shiny objects, if anything i'll make them so they naturally hoard items (trust me my ferrets are like little dragons, whatever they steal, and that's alot, they hide under a bureau or something), however that won't have much effect in game terms, that just means they start out with about three times the normal starting GP, or tripple standard for their challenge rating if you want to introduce them as an NPC or monster. I will take out some of the Cha bonus, however, i want to still keep a +2 and make it a +2 to Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Handle Animal, and any Perform skills because, well, that's just how ferrets get what they want, they sit there and look cute until you give them a treat, also they can use their dex modifier instead of their str modifier on climb. So now, to do what you said to make the abilities negative, i'm thinking more of -6 str, +4 dex, -2 int, +2 cha, that way it's not too powerful and it's still negative. Lastly, they're humanoids......
Lawlicron 07-24-07, 02:37 PM	I don't think giving them a -6 to Strength is such a good idea. As tiny characters they are already at 1/3 of how much weight a medium sized character can carry. And with an average 4 Str, they are going to be in dire straights of strength damage paralyzing them all the time, not that I'm saying its common now in DnD, but if Ferret Folk are a common race people would know strength damage gets them gone fast. Also as Str is a dump stat for sorcerers I think it might be even worse. I also wouldn't start them with 3 times the gold or anything. Maybe give them a bonus on appraise instead, because they like shiny objects maybe they naturally can determine something as junk or not. Now, here is a problem they have a +2 bonus thirteen different skills. That is too many. Tone it down a little, maybe a +2 bonus on a single perform (Chosen at character creation), a +2 bonus on handle animal, and a +2 bonus on diplomacy. That way it will represent their affinity for animals and ability to get what they want.
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 07-25-07, 09:25 AM	I don't think giving them a -6 to Strength is such a good idea. As tiny characters they are already at 1/3 of how much weight a medium sized character can carry. And with an average 4 Str, they are going to be in dire straights of strength damage paralyzing them all the time, not that I'm saying its common now in DnD, but if Ferret Folk are a common race people would know strength damage gets them gone fast. Also as Str is a dump stat for sorcerers I think it might be even worse. I also wouldn't start them with 3 times the gold or anything. Maybe give them a bonus on appraise instead, because they like shiny objects maybe they naturally can determine something as junk or not. Now, here is a problem they have a +2 bonus thirteen different skills. That is too many. Tone it down a little, maybe a +2 bonus on a single perform (Chosen at character creation), a +2 bonus on handle animal, and a +2 bonus on diplomacy. That way it will represent their affinity for animals and ability to get what they want. Yes, well the thing about the strength is, a kobold has a -4 to it and that's one size larger, that's like having a medium humanoid race that has +10 str, it's kinda iffy. Yeah, i guess with the whole 3x the gold thing, i'll just give them a +2 bonus on appraise, handle animal, diplomacy, i want to keep the bluff, and on one perform chosen during character creation and can never be changed.
Lawlicron 07-25-07, 11:13 AM	Yes, well the thing about the strength is, a kobold has a -4 to it and that's one size larger, that's like having a medium humanoid race that has +10 str, it's kinda iffy. Yeah, i guess with the whole 3x the gold thing, i'll just give them a +2 bonus on appraise, handle animal, diplomacy, i want to keep the bluff, and on one perform chosen during character creation and can never be changed. Kolbolds, for their size, are exceptionally weak. Most small races are -2 to Str. But still, if you keep the grapple bonus, thats still a +2 bonus to six skills. Twice what a race normally gets. You might want to further bring it down. Maybe knock out handle animal and diplomacy. I only suggested diplomacy before because they can get what they want, if you want perform to represent that instead of diplomacy thats fine.
Ferreter 07-25-07, 10:47 PM	*tosses two cents in* From what I read (and my own suggestions coming up) why not change it to something like this. Racial Traits: Humanoid -4 str, -2Con, +4 dex, -2 wis, +2 cha Size Tiny: +2 AC, -8 grapple check, and a reach of 0 A Ferret Folk's base land speed is 20 ft. Burrow speed 20 ft. Scent Ability. Ferret Folk treat Jump and Climb checks as Dex based skills rather then Str. Ferret Folk gain a +2 bonus on appraise and diplomacy checks. Automatic Languages: Ferret Folk Bonus Languages: Common, Elven Favored Class: Ranger and/or Scout LA: +X The stats: As Lawlicron stated, -6 strength is harsh but a -4 isn’t uncommon(though still fairly brutal). The -2 con would represent Ferret Folk having less hit points then other races as you said earlier. The +4 Dex makes it so that they basically get a +2 in all Dex based skills hands-down and is balanced out by the -4 Str. Changed the -2 Int to -2 Wis because (if you can’t tell from my name) I’m a ferret nut myself and in all my years owning ferrets, they’ve never come off as being unintelligent, but rather a tad bit unwise in their choice of actions. Having a -2 wis balances them a little more then -2 Int because of the drop in Will saves which is in a sense more fitting for ferrets. Their size opens up a ton of negatives, such as their reach and damage abilities. If they ever ended up having to deal in close combat they’d need that dex and ac bonus since they’d provoke attacks of opportunity just trying to hit something OR get away from something hitting them. However the bonuses they get for it make them great for characters that avoid such things (such as bow Rangers and Scouts, or spell casters, but even they get caught off-gaurd sometimes). Seeing as Ferrets naturally live in burrows (and are REALLY good at getting under sheets and carpets) a burrow speed on top of land speed only makes sense. The jump and climb switch only makes sense because ferrets are crazy good climbers and jumpers. Slapping a -2 on those stats because of the decrease in strength wouldn't be fair. The +2 on appraise and diplomacy account for their tenacity in such matters. I set the languages as such since having an uncommon Auto-Language sets them on a slight negative side, and including Common and Elven as the only bonus languages because they’re not likely to run across many others out in the wild very often. Favored Class: Ranger and Scout class fit better then either Sorcerer or Druid would for the description given. The LA isn’t set because I was never good at figuring out such things. In many instances they come out with added negatives (an additional -2 to a combat stat being a fairly big one), but as Lawlicron said many things set them higher then most base races.
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 07-26-07, 10:59 AM	*tosses two cents in* From what I read (and my own suggestions coming up) why not change it to something like this. Racial Traits: Humanoid -4 str, -2Con, +4 dex, -2 wis, +2 cha Size Tiny: +2 AC, -8 grapple check, and a reach of 0 A Ferret Folk's base land speed is 20 ft. Burrow speed 20 ft. Scent Ability. Ferret Folk treat Jump and Climb checks as Dex based skills rather then Str. Ferret Folk gain a +2 bonus on appraise and diplomacy checks. Automatic Languages: Ferret Folk Bonus Languages: Common, Elven Favored Class: Ranger and/or Scout LA: +X The stats: As Lawlicron stated, -6 strength is harsh but a -4 isn’t uncommon(though still fairly brutal). The -2 con would represent Ferret Folk having less hit points then other races as you said earlier. The +4 Dex makes it so that they basically get a +2 in all Dex based skills hands-down and is balanced out by the -4 Str. Changed the -2 Int to -2 Wis because (if you can’t tell from my name) I’m a ferret nut myself and in all my years owning ferrets, they’ve never come off as being unintelligent, but rather a tad bit unwise in their choice of actions. Having a -2 wis balances them a little more then -2 Int because of the drop in Will saves which is in a sense more fitting for ferrets. Their size opens up a ton of negatives, such as their reach and damage abilities. If they ever ended up having to deal in close combat they’d need that dex and ac bonus since they’d provoke attacks of opportunity just trying to hit something OR get away from something hitting them. However the bonuses they get for it make them great for characters that avoid such things (such as bow Rangers and Scouts, or spell casters, but even they get caught off-gaurd sometimes). Seeing as Ferrets naturally live in burrows (and are REALLY good at getting under sheets and carpets) a burrow speed on top of land speed only makes sense. The jump and climb switch only makes sense because ferrets are crazy good climbers and jumpers. Slapping a -2 on those stats because of the decrease in strength wouldn't be fair. The +2 on appraise and diplomacy account for their tenacity in such matters. I set the languages as such since having an uncommon Auto-Language sets them on a slight negative side, and including Common and Elven as the only bonus languages because they’re not likely to run across many others out in the wild very often. Favored Class: Ranger and Scout class fit better then either Sorcerer or Druid would for the description given. The LA isn’t set because I was never good at figuring out such things. In many instances they come out with added negatives (an additional -2 to a combat stat being a fairly big one), but as Lawlicron said many things set them higher then most base races. I like the ability score adjustments, the burrow speed, and the favored class suggestions, however i don't like the automatic language, i might add in something but if i did, it would be something that sounds a little.....cooler. I seriously want to keep the languages untouched though, especially the Draconic and Elven automatic languages, also, the bonus languages are from races they would be likely to run into in the wilderness. So here it is so far: Racial Traits: Humanoid -4str, -2 con, +4 dex, -2 wis, +2 cha Size tiny: +2 AC, -8 grapple, reach of 0 Base land speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), burrow 20 ft. Scent ability Ferret Folk treat climb and jump as dexterity based skills rather than strength. Ferret Folk gain a +2 bonus to AC and on escape artist checks due to their slippery nature Ferret Folk have very poor vision and take a -3 penalty on search and spot checks Ferret Folk have a +2 bonus on appraise and diplomacy checks. Automatic Languages: Draconic, Elven. Bonus Languages: Gnoll, Goblin, Giant, Common Favored Class: Ranger LA: +1 or +0???
Lawlicron 07-26-07, 02:22 PM	I like the ability score adjustments, the burrow speed, and the favored class suggestions, however i don't like the automatic language, i might add in something but if i did, it would be something that sounds a little.....cooler. I seriously want to keep the languages untouched though, especially the Draconic and Elven automatic languages, also, the bonus languages are from races they would be likely to run into in the wilderness. So here it is so far: Racial Traits: Humanoid -4str, -2 con, +4 dex, -2 wis, +2 cha Size tiny: +2 AC, -8 grapple, reach of 0 Base land speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), burrow 20 ft. Scent ability Ferret Folk treat climb and jump as dexterity based skills rather than strength. Ferret Folk gain a +2 bonus to AC and on escape artist checks due to their slippery nature Ferret Folk have very poor vision and take a -3 penalty on search and spot checks Ferret Folk have a +2 bonus on appraise and diplomacy checks. Automatic Languages: Draconic, Elven. Bonus Languages: Gnoll, Goblin, Giant, Common Favored Class: Ranger LA: +1 or +0??? Why don't they have common as a base language? Because not having common as a base language balances nothing, might as well give them Draconic and Common with elven being a bonus language.
Ferreter 07-26-07, 02:42 PM	Racial Traits: Humanoid -4str, -2 con, +4 dex, -2 wis, +2 cha Size tiny: +2 AC, -8 grapple, reach of 0 Base land speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), burrow 20 ft. Scent ability Ferret Folk treat climb and jump as dexterity based skills rather than strength. Ferret Folk gain a +2 bonus to AC and on escape artist checks due to their slippery nature Ferret Folk have very poor vision and take a -3 penalty on search and spot checks Ferret Folk have a +2 bonus on appraise and diplomacy checks. Automatic Languages: Draconic, Elven. Bonus Languages: Gnoll, Goblin, Giant, Common Favored Class: Ranger LA: +1 or +0??? I can understand maybe having Elven as an Auto-Language but most races other then those that either ARE Dragons, think they're dragons or worship them are the only ones that usually have it as an auto-language. And don't forget that the +4 Dex will already give them +2 to Ac and Escape Artist checks as it is. Have a Base 18 Dex + 4 = a +6 Dex, add the +2 bonus from size, slap on some Leather and they'd have almost a 22 ac right out of the park. With the additional +2 they'd have 24 ac at just level one. Then you make them a Fighter, give them dodge and mobilitiy. 25 agaisn't one guy, 29 against attacks of opertunity (if its the same guy) at level one is just wrong... Not even an Orc-ish Fight would have a CHANCE of hitting it, even with out the mobility. Why not just give them Mobility as a bonus feat rather then the +2 to AC and Escape? (or just dodge so they can get it mobility easier since dodge is a requirment)
Lawlicron 07-26-07, 02:45 PM	I didn't see that he slipped that random AC bonus back in. I thought you cut that already? Because its already there in their size and dex bonus.
Ferreter 07-26-07, 03:03 PM	I didn't see that he slipped that random AC bonus back in. I thought you cut that already? Because its already there in their size and dex bonus. He also slipped in the negative on spot and search checks again. The spot I can understand, the search not so much so. Maybe a -2 to Spot checks would be fair (if you take into account the -2 to Wis is like a -1 to all Wisdom skills it'd come out to be -3 anyway) so keep it anyways.
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 07-26-07, 09:48 PM	I didn't see that he slipped that random AC bonus back in. I thought you cut that already? Because its already there in their size and dex bonus. I see where you're coming from, i'll take out the AC bonus but the bonus to escape artist is kinda vital. He also slipped in the negative on spot and search checks again. The spot I can understand, the search not so much so. Maybe a -2 to Spot checks would be fair (if you take into account the -2 to Wis is like a -1 to all Wisdom skills it'd come out to be -3 anyway) so keep it anyways. I'll also take out the penalty to search checks, seeing as what they lack in vision, they make up for in their scent, and i'll make it a -2 to spot. Also, i guess i'll swap out the draconic for the giant or common, if i put in the common, then i'd rather have the draconic with it instead of the elven, so either elven and giant, or common and draconic for the automatic languages....i just like the draconic language, it's my favorite :) .
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 07-28-07, 11:51 AM	.........Sooooooooo, is this balanced yet :P ?
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 07-29-07, 02:47 PM	So here it is, the finished product (hopefully): Suddenly you see a small, black figure about the size of a small cat pop out of the bushes and scurry down the path. As you look closer, you notice something on it's back so you follow it to investigate. Suddenly, the creature comes to a sudden halt and begins to stand up straight on it's hind legs however it's back still maintains a curve which gives it a hunchback appearance. As you look closer, you realize what you thought to be a ferret, is obviously not as there is a gleam of intelligence as well as a hint of hatred in its eye. Finally, you find out what was on it's back as it pulls out a miniature great sword and gives a display of it's obviously great dexterity by twirling it in one hand before ending in an offensive position. Suddenly, you feel something small drop onto your back as you feel a cold flash of steel against your neck and you hear a slightly squeaky voice with a hint of suspicion and hatred whisper in your ear saying, "Don't move.........." Ferret Folk are nomadic hunters and live much like elves. They most commonly live in holes underground or in trees, depending entirely on the land. Usually their way of life is sometimes associated with savagery but this is normally untrue as they are as intelligent as other "more civilized" races. Like Wizened Elders (MM4), they aren't necessarily evil, however they are extremely suspicious of all outsiders, normally sending the more experienced scouts to take the invader(s) hostage until they get a good explanation as to why they were there. Despite their uneasy disposition, Ferret Folk adventurers are actually quite common, seeing as they're big risk takers and quite playful and hyperactive if they trust you (however they tire quickly and sleep heavily for long periods of time afterwards [hence their con penalty, see below]) and they make exceptional scouts, rogues, rangers, druids, and especially spellcasters such as sorcerors. They have a high charisma and are somewhat dexteritous and low strength. They also have an uncanny ability to dodge attacks and escape grapples in which they gain a +2 bonus to escape artist checks. Also, they are resistant to nonlethal damage and being small, they are also tiny size and are only slightly different in appearance from a normal ferret (DC 15 spot check to determine the difference) while moving as a quadruped. Racial Traits: Humanoid -4str, -2 con, +4 dex, -2 wis, +2 cha Size tiny: +2 AC, -8 grapple, reach of 0 Base land speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), burrow 20 ft. Scent ability. Ferret Folk treat climb and jump as dexterity based skills rather than strength. Ferret Folk gain a +2 bonus to escape artist checks due to their slippery nature. Ferret Folk have very poor vision and take a -2 penalty on spot checks Ferret Folk have a +2 bonus on appraise and diplomacy checks. Automatic Languages: Common, Elven. Bonus Languages: Gnoll, Goblin, Giant, Draconic. Favored Class: Ranger. LA: +1
bunj 07-29-07, 03:27 PM	i'm gonna use this with a warlock!
EvilVegan 07-29-07, 04:26 PM	Racial Traits: Humanoid -4str, -2 con, +4 dex, -2 wis, +2 cha Size tiny: +2 AC, -8 grapple, reach of 0 Base land speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), burrow 20 ft. Scent ability. Ferret Folk treat climb and jump as dexterity based skills rather than strength. Ferret Folk gain a +2 bonus to escape artist checks due to their slippery nature. Ferret Folk have very poor vision and take a -2 penalty on spot checks Ferret Folk have a +2 bonus on appraise and diplomacy checks. Automatic Languages: Common, Elven. Bonus Languages: Gnoll, Goblin, Giant, Draconic. Favored Class: Ranger. LA: +1 Well lets see: Uneven stat penalty +4 total to AC -8 to grapple You left out +2 to hit and +8 to hide for size. This actually cancels out the str penalty on melee attack rolls, meaning that they won't miss any more often on melee attacks than a standard human, but will do less damage. -5 to damage in melee (die decrease is average of 1.5 per size difference, then strength penalty) always provokes attacks when attacking in melee (due to being tiny) CRAZY burrow speed for a race based on a creature that doesn't naturally burrow (they steal burrows of other creatures in the wild). I can personally dig a hole and crawl under sheets just fine, I don't have a burrow speed. Other than the burrow speed not really making sense, it looks okay. But it isn't a solid +1 LA. The negatives outweigh the positives, even with the mojo of a ferret attached. I'd make them monstrous humanoids. Tiny humanoids are wierd and there aren't many humanoids with LA. I'd up the escape artist to a +4 bonus I'd remove the penalty to spot checks alltogether. Ferret vision is terrible at medium/long range, but they have better close range and peripheral range vision than humans and their motion detection is great. Anyway, you aren't making ferrets you're making ferret people. They don't need to have all the drawbacks of a regular ferret. Divulgent evolution and all. Also ferrets have far better vision in low-light conditions than a human. I'd definitely give them low-light vision if you keep the spot penalty, but it makes sense to give it to them either way. I personally have ferret-people (called Bander) in my world as well, but they have the stats of halflings, with a +4 on escape artist checks, low-light vision, and a line of feats based on biting and biting-grapples, and using slings and skill tricks based on "ferret-war-dancing" (erratic charges and evasiveness). So to recap: Racial Traits: Type: Monstrous Humanoid Ability Modifiers:-4str, -2 con, +4 dex, -2 wis, +2 cha Tiny: As a Tiny creature, a ferret folk gains a +2 size bonus to armor class, a +2 size bonus to attack rolls, and a +8 size bonus on hide checks, a -8 size penalty to grapple checks, and a reach of 0. Equipment sized for tiny creatures weighs one quarter that of a medium sized creature and his lifting and carrying limits are half of those of a Medium creature. Speed: Ferret folk base land speed is 20 ft. (4 squares) Scent: Ferret folk have a keen sense of smell and have the scent ability. Low-light vision: Ferret folk can see twice as far as a human Dextrous Athletes:Ferret Folk treat climb and jump as dexterity based skills rather than strength. Slippery: Ferret Folk gain a +4 bonus to escape artist checks due to their slippery nature. Mercantile: Ferret Folk have a +2 bonus on appraise and diplomacy checks. Automatic Languages: Common, Elven. Bonus Languages: Gnoll, Goblin, Giant, Draconic. Favored Class: Ranger. LA: +1
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 07-30-07, 12:49 PM	Well lets see: Uneven stat penalty +4 total to AC -8 to grapple You left out +2 to hit and +8 to hide for size. This actually cancels out the str penalty on melee attack rolls, meaning that they won't miss any more often on melee attacks than a standard human, but will do less damage. -5 to damage in melee (die decrease is average of 1.5 per size difference, then strength penalty) always provokes attacks when attacking in melee (due to being tiny) CRAZY burrow speed for a race based on a creature that doesn't naturally burrow (they steal burrows of other creatures in the wild). I can personally dig a hole and crawl under sheets just fine, I don't have a burrow speed. Other than the burrow speed not really making sense, it looks okay. But it isn't a solid +1 LA. The negatives outweigh the positives, even with the mojo of a ferret attached. I'd make them monstrous humanoids. Tiny humanoids are wierd and there aren't many humanoids with LA. I'd up the escape artist to a +4 bonus I'd remove the penalty to spot checks alltogether. Ferret vision is terrible at medium/long range, but they have better close range and peripheral range vision than humans and their motion detection is great. Anyway, you aren't making ferrets you're making ferret people. They don't need to have all the drawbacks of a regular ferret. Divulgent evolution and all. Also ferrets have far better vision in low-light conditions than a human. I'd definitely give them low-light vision if you keep the spot penalty, but it makes sense to give it to them either way. I personally have ferret-people (called Bander) in my world as well, but they have the stats of halflings, with a +4 on escape artist checks, low-light vision, and a line of feats based on biting and biting-grapples, and using slings and skill tricks based on "ferret-war-dancing" (erratic charges and evasiveness). So to recap: Racial Traits: Type: Monstrous Humanoid Ability Modifiers:-4str, -2 con, +4 dex, -2 wis, +2 cha Tiny: As a Tiny creature, a ferret folk gains a +2 size bonus to armor class, a +2 size bonus to attack rolls, and a +8 size bonus on hide checks, a -8 size penalty to grapple checks, and a reach of 0. Equipment sized for tiny creatures weighs one quarter that of a medium sized creature and his lifting and carrying limits are half of those of a Medium creature. Speed: Ferret folk base land speed is 20 ft. (4 squares) Scent: Ferret folk have a keen sense of smell and have the scent ability. Low-light vision: Ferret folk can see twice as far as a human Dextrous Athletes:Ferret Folk treat climb and jump as dexterity based skills rather than strength. Slippery: Ferret Folk gain a +4 bonus to escape artist checks due to their slippery nature. Mercantile: Ferret Folk have a +2 bonus on appraise and diplomacy checks. Automatic Languages: Common, Elven. Bonus Languages: Gnoll, Goblin, Giant, Draconic. Favored Class: Ranger. LA: +1 Yeah, i did think the burrow speed was a bit much, but trust me, they can burrow, i'll tone it down to a speed of 10. I am aware of the uneven stat penalty, that kinda helps to balance it out more. I'll also up the escape artist to +4, take out the spot penalty, and add in low-light vision, where did you get the -5 to attacks and the always provoking attacks of opportunity while attacking in melee? Also, i'm very interested in the "weasel war dance" thing, can you shed some light on it? When i was making this i was thinking "...there's......just something missing." Maybe i should make it usable once per day and gives them a 1d2 bite attack, takes out their penalty to grapple, gives them improved grab, and gives them a +2 to strength and charisma, a little unbalanced though :( .
EvilVegan 07-30-07, 02:00 PM	Yeah, i did think the burrow speed was a bit much, but trust me, they can burrow, i'll tone it down to a speed of 10. I am aware of the uneven stat penalty, that kinda helps to balance it out more. I'll also up the escape artist to +4, take out the spot penalty, and add in low-light vision, where did you get the -5 to attacks and the always provoking attacks of opportunity while attacking in melee? Also, i'm very interested in the "weasel war dance" thing, can you shed some light on it? When i was making this i was thinking "...there's......just something missing." Maybe i should make it usable once per day and gives them a 1d2 bite attack, takes out their penalty to grapple, gives them improved grab, and gives them a +2 to strength and charisma, a little unbalanced though :( .-5 to damage when compared to a medium creature. They use much smaller weapons (typically 2 die smaller), and a die decrease is around 1-4 damage less, and then calculate in the str penalty. They provoke in melee because they have no reach, so they have to move into their target's square to attack. Skip Williams postulated that it wouldn't be out of line to let a tiny creature with a reach weapon threaten a 5' area, but it was just one of his house rules. Well, you know how ferrets get when they're excited. They arch their back and sling their heads from side to side trying to get a better look (because their vision is more movement based), then they charge in sideways flipping and tumbling. I'd steer away from anything that increases strength. They don't really get that much stronger. They just get more animated. Maybe the ability to charge with a 90 degree turn or acrobatic charge? They're going to provoke at the end of the charge regardless (due to size) so I personally don't think it would be overpowered. Alternately you could make it have other abilities and limit its use, such as it denies their opponent dex to ac 1/encounter (allowing sneak attack) because its almost impossible to predict where/when the attack will come. The thing you're missing is probably better represented as class variants, racial feats, and skill tricks (in my opinion).
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 07-30-07, 05:04 PM	-5 to damage when compared to a medium creature. They use much smaller weapons (typically 2 die smaller), and a die decrease is around 1-4 damage less, and then calculate in the str penalty. They provoke in melee because they have no reach, so they have to move into their target's square to attack. Skip Williams postulated that it wouldn't be out of line to let a tiny creature with a reach weapon threaten a 5' area, but it was just one of his house rules. Well, you know how ferrets get when they're excited. They arch their back and sling their heads from side to side trying to get a better look (because their vision is more movement based), then they charge in sideways flipping and tumbling. I'd steer away from anything that increases strength. They don't really get that much stronger. They just get more animated. Maybe the ability to charge with a 90 degree turn or acrobatic charge? They're going to provoke at the end of the charge regardless (due to size) so I personally don't think it would be overpowered. Alternately you could make it have other abilities and limit its use, such as it denies their opponent dex to ac 1/encounter (allowing sneak attack) because its almost impossible to predict where/when the attack will come. The thing you're missing is probably better represented as class variants, racial feats, and skill tricks (in my opinion). I'll take out the str bonus but i can't decide if i want this to be an automatic thing or a racial feat in which case the only prerequisite would be Ferret Folk. Also, i might add in giving them a rend when they grapple (only dealing 1 point of damage) and it gives their allies a +1 on attack rolls, this lasts for 1 round/level after which they are fatigued and slowed.....only, now it's all getting too complicated.
Ferreter 07-31-07, 03:21 AM	I like the idea the idea that they'd have a racial ability called War Dance. Have it be a 1/day ability that treats the opponent as being flat footed since they can't figure out where it's going to strike from since it seems to just be spazzing out randomly... No other modifiers needed lol
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 08-01-07, 09:03 AM	I like the flat footed, i'll add that in, maybe i'll just make is so the ability temporarily eliminates their grapple penalty, the opponent is treated as flat footed, and maybe is identical to the barbarian rage class feature minus the strength bonus.
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 08-02-07, 02:03 PM	Here it is so far with changes added: Racial Traits: Humanoid -4str, -2 con, +4 dex, -2 wis, +2 cha Size tiny: As a Tiny creature, a ferret folk gains a +2 size bonus to armor class, a +2 size bonus to attack rolls, and a +8 size bonus on hide checks, a -8 size penalty to grapple checks, and a reach of 0. Equipment sized for tiny creatures weighs one quarter that of a medium sized creature and his lifting and carrying limits are half of those of a Medium creature. Base land speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), burrow 10 ft. Scent ability. War Dance: Ferret Folk can use this ability once per day for 1 minute plus the ferret folk's character level. Once activated, the Ferret Folk's grapple penalty becomes -2, in addition the Ferret Folk can designate one opponent per round, that opponent is treated as flat footed for the remainder of the round whenever the Ferret Folk attacks. This is otherwise identical to the barbarian rage class feature minus the strength bonus. Ferret Folk treat climb and jump as dexterity based skills rather than strength. Ferret Folk gain a +4 bonus to escape artist checks due to their slippery nature. Ferret Folk have very poor vision and take a -2 penalty on spot checks Ferret Folk have a +2 bonus on appraise and diplomacy checks. Automatic Languages: Common, Elven. Bonus Languages: Gnoll, Goblin, Giant, Draconic. Favored Class: Ranger. LA: +1 or +0? I kept in the spot penalty because spot is more focused on long-range and Ferret Folk's eyes are only good to about a distance of 10ft., also, i kept them humanoids because as Lawlicron stated, monstrous humanoids aren't affected by as many spells.
EvilVegan 08-02-07, 03:04 PM	War Dance: Plus their level in what (rounds/minutes/hours)? Also, it shouldn't lower their AC like abarbarian rage does. How about "Gain +2 dodge bonus to AC due to jumping wildly. You can make charges with one 90 degree turn (or more if you have the feats that allow it) and through occupied spaces (with appropriate tumble/jump checks). Your opponent is denied their AC against the first attack you make after initiating the war dance and you may also feint in combat as a swift action. You also suffer no penalties for attack rolls made during a grapple (but still must use light weapons or natural attacks)." The war dance may not need to affect grappling (at least not in my mind). In my campaign the grappling feature of a ferret was a feat. It gave them a bite (d3 for a small creature) and improved grab against anything of larger size. They may ignore size penalties/bonuses, but their target isn't considered grappled. Effectively they're latched on and the target can still function normally (unless they're encumbered by the ferret). The ferret is still free to attack with light weapons and deals bite damage each round. The only real benefit (other than the extra attack) is that your enemy can move away and you stay with them. Its funny for fighting fliers. I'd keep the LA at +1.
Lawlicron 08-03-07, 09:40 AM	I'm seeing this war dance thing in a negative light. This shouldn't be a racial ability, its more like a class/PrC ability or a feat. Maybe even a chain of feats. I'd say just drop the war dance. If you start adding all these 'neat' abilities that have a ferret theme to them it's going to get super cluttered. The minor abilities that are getting added seem trivial already.
EvilVegan 08-03-07, 09:49 AM	If you make their abilities class variants (which I'm a fan of) then you can make them more powerful and scaling. I think their 3 variant classes would be barbarian (wardancin'), druid (wildshape changes, animal companion changes), and sorcerer (dancin' castin, wild magic).
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 08-03-07, 03:39 PM	If you make their abilities class variants (which I'm a fan of) then you can make them more powerful and scaling. I think their 3 variant classes would be barbarian (wardancin'), druid (wildshape changes, animal companion changes), and sorcerer (dancin' castin, wild magic). I'll think about fleshing these out but i'm completely lost in the category of variant classes, i'd have to know exactly what i was doing first......Also, Lawlicron my original thought of this was for it to be a racial feat and i could also make it more powerful through that instead of a class variant as EvilVegan said.
EvilVegan 08-03-07, 04:04 PM	Yea, feat or variants, both can be more powerful than a race ability. If you need any help with variants, let me know. I like working on classes more than races.
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 08-03-07, 09:42 PM	Yea, feat or variants, both can be more powerful than a race ability. If you need any help with variants, let me know. I like working on classes more than races. I think i'll go with the feat.....So, do you think it should or would have anything else other than what's stated above? Do you think it's racial traits are balanced now? P.S. EvilVegan, i might post about 3 classes in a couple days, look out for 'em, they would be as follows: Jester (basically the opposite of a bard, complete with spells that cause uncontrollable laughter and the like), Adapter or Blood Mage (both my friends ideas [need permission first]), and a strange class that i have no clue what to name it that is like a fighter that has perfected the art of sundering weapons.
EvilVegan 08-04-07, 10:47 AM	Actually, I ran the numbers through the ECL calculator (http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/shadows/Handbook/ECLcalc.html) and without the war dance the race is exactly +1 LA if you add in low light vision. At first glance I thought it would be a weak, but thats only compared to things like the feral template, which is way off base for a +1 LA. Humanoid -4str, -2 con, +4 dex, -2 wis, +2 cha Size tiny: As a Tiny creature, a ferret folk gains a +2 size bonus to armor class, a +2 size bonus to attack rolls, and a +8 size bonus on hide checks, a -8 size penalty to grapple checks, and a reach of 0. Equipment sized for tiny creatures weighs one quarter that of a medium sized creature and his lifting and carrying limits are half of those of a Medium creature. Base land speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), burrow 10 ft. Low-Light Vision Scent ability. Ferret Folk treat climb and jump as dexterity based skills rather than strength. Ferret Folk gain a +4 bonus to escape artist checks due to their slippery nature. Ferret Folk have very poor vision and take a -2 penalty on spot checks Ferret Folk have a +2 bonus on appraise and diplomacy checks. Automatic Languages: Common, Elven. Bonus Languages: Gnoll, Goblin, Giant, Draconic. Favored Class: Ranger. LA: +1 There are other tweaks you could make to make them flavorful, making it hard for them to find armor (exotic body shape, X2 cost) and then adding in a weak bite attack (1d2+1/2 str, always considered a secondary natural attack, so -5 to hit), would balance each other out.
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 08-04-07, 12:40 PM	Actually, I ran the numbers through the ECL calculator (http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/shadows/Handbook/ECLcalc.html) and without the war dance the race is exactly +1 LA if you add in low light vision. At first glance I thought it would be a weak, but thats only compared to things like the feral template, which is way off base for a +1 LA. Humanoid -4str, -2 con, +4 dex, -2 wis, +2 cha Size tiny: As a Tiny creature, a ferret folk gains a +2 size bonus to armor class, a +2 size bonus to attack rolls, and a +8 size bonus on hide checks, a -8 size penalty to grapple checks, and a reach of 0. Equipment sized for tiny creatures weighs one quarter that of a medium sized creature and his lifting and carrying limits are half of those of a Medium creature. Base land speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), burrow 10 ft. Low-Light Vision Scent ability. Ferret Folk treat climb and jump as dexterity based skills rather than strength. Ferret Folk gain a +4 bonus to escape artist checks due to their slippery nature. Ferret Folk have very poor vision and take a -2 penalty on spot checks Ferret Folk have a +2 bonus on appraise and diplomacy checks. Automatic Languages: Common, Elven. Bonus Languages: Gnoll, Goblin, Giant, Draconic. Favored Class: Ranger. LA: +1 One thing though, if it has an ECL of 1, how does it have any LA since ECL is the HD plus the LA (i noticed the same thing on my Kenku character ot said LA +0 and 1 HD so what does that mean?). Is it possible for any creature to have no HD? Sorry not sure, so basically, cool :P .
EvilVegan 08-04-07, 12:55 PM	It was ECL 2 with 1 HD when I ran the numbers.
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 08-04-07, 12:59 PM	......Ohhhhhh.....whoops :D .
Inlad_The_Dashing_Paladin 08-04-07, 07:19 PM	I have only one suggestion, new name. I mean, seriously, every part animal race I see has folk at the end (besides older ones, like the Gnoll, or Minotaur). Inlad The Dashing Paladin. (yes, I have ego problems, stop bugging me about it!)
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 08-05-07, 08:47 PM	I have only one suggestion, new name. I mean, seriously, every part animal race I see has folk at the end (besides older ones, like the Gnoll, or Minotaur). Inlad The Dashing Paladin. (yes, I have ego problems, stop bugging me about it!) I might give them a new name but i think it's fine the way it is for now..... Finally, i think i have the finished product:
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 08-05-07, 09:01 PM	Suddenly you see a small, black figure about the size of a small cat pop out of the bushes and scurry down the path. As you look closer, you notice something on it's back so you follow it to investigate. Suddenly, the creature comes to a sudden halt and begins to stand up straight on it's hind legs however it's back still maintains a curve which gives it a hunchback appearance. As you look closer, you realize what you thought to be a ferret, is obviously not as there is a gleam of intelligence as well as a hint of hatred in its eye. Finally, you find out what was on it's back as it pulls out a miniature great sword and gives a display of it's obviously great dexterity by twirling it in one hand before ending in an offensive position. Suddenly, you feel something small drop onto your back as you feel a cold flash of steel against your neck and you hear a slightly squeaky voice with a hint of suspicion and hatred whisper in your ear saying, "Drop your weapon..." Ferret Folk are nomadic hunters and live much like elves. They most commonly live in holes underground or in trees, depending entirely on the land. Usually their way of life is sometimes associated with savagery but this is normally untrue as they are as intelligent as other "more civilized" races. Like Wizened Elders (MM4), they aren't necessarily evil, however they are extremely suspicious of all outsiders, normally sending the more experienced scouts to take the invader(s) hostage until they get a good explanation as to why they were there. Despite their uneasy disposition, Ferret Folk adventurers are actually quite common, seeing as they're big risk takers and quite playful and hyperactive if they trust you (however they tire quickly and sleep heavily for long periods of time afterwards [hence their con penalty, see below]) and they make exceptional scouts, rogues, rangers, druids, and especially spellcasters such as sorcerors. They have a high charisma and are somewhat dexteritous and low strength. They also have an uncanny ability to dodge attacks and escape grapples in which they gain a +4 bonus to escape artist checks. Also, they are resistant to nonlethal damage and being small, they are also tiny size and are only slightly different in appearance from a normal ferret (DC 15 spot check to determine the difference) while moving as a quadruped. Racial Traits: Humanoid -4str, -2 con, +4 dex, -2 wis, +2 cha Size tiny: As a Tiny creature, a ferret folk gains a +2 size bonus to armor class, a +2 size bonus to attack rolls, and a +8 size bonus on hide checks, a -8 size penalty to grapple checks, and a reach of 0. Equipment sized for tiny creatures weighs one quarter that of a medium sized creature and his lifting and carrying limits are half of those of a Medium creature. Base land speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), burrow 10 ft. Scent ability. Ferret Folk treat climb and jump as dexterity based skills rather than strength. Ferret Folk gain a +4 bonus to escape artist checks due to their slippery nature. Ferret Folk have very poor vision and take a -2 penalty on spot checks Ferret Folk have a +2 bonus on appraise and diplomacy checks. Automatic Languages: Common, Elven. Bonus Languages: Gnoll, Goblin, Giant, Draconic. Favored Class: Ranger. LA: +1 Racial Feat: War Dance Prerequisites:Ferret Folk, Character Level 1st Benefit: Ferret Folk can use this ability once per day for 1 minute plus 1 minute per character level. Once activated, the Ferret Folk gains a +6 bonus to grapples, you can make charges with one 90 degree turn (or more if you have the feats that allow it) and through occupied spaces (with appropriate tumble/jump checks), you may also feint in combat as a swift action. You also suffer no penalties for attack rolls made during a grapple (but still must use light weapons or natural attacks). Afterwards the Ferret Folk is fatigued for 2 rounds. So, what do you think? anything to add/ subtract/ change?
EvilVegan 08-06-07, 10:46 AM	The dance is a bit long and if you have the swift action feint you don't need the 1 person is flat-footed part and vice versa. I'd have one or the other. Also you may want to change the grapple penalty wording. . . it is a bit unclear. You may just want to make it a +6 to grapple checks. Also, check out the "Attach" ability of dire weasels. Its funny.
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 08-06-07, 03:09 PM	Changed the post, i took out the flat-footed thing. I think i'll leave out the "attach", besides i don't have the original MM, only IV and V. As long as it is what i think it is, i'll leave it out as another one of those "it can't do this because it's not the same as the animals they resemble" (is it the ability to grapple with a bite and use it's blood drain or am i thinking of something else? If i am then just give me a basic overview as to what it is...)
EvilVegan 08-06-07, 04:01 PM	Thats the ability. I just like their ability to grapple with their mouth and hang on. The blood drain is dumb.