Fiendish dire Weasel Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Fiendish dire Weasel Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Easalyamusedoldman
09-07-07, 05:42 PM Any idea what te LA for a Fiendish Dire Weasel would be? I want to be one for my next adventure. He's going to be a Warlock.
Horatio Hornblower
09-07-07, 07:39 PM Any idea what te LA for a Fiendish Dire Weasel would be? I want to be one for my next adventure. He's going to be a Warlock.

Of course, it would have to be an awaken creature per the spell in the PHB.

Dire weasels have three hit dice and the fiendish template would be +2 level adjustment so we're up to an ECL 5 even before we conceder the other bonuses a dire weasel has compared to a human.

I'm no expert on level adjustments, but I'd guess at least another +1. That'll get you up to ECL 6. So to be a first level warlock your fiendish dire weasel would be ECL 7.

It could be even higher.
Easalyamusedoldman
09-07-07, 07:57 PM Of course, it would have to be an awaken creature per the spell in the PHB.

Dire weasels have three hit dice and the fiendish template would be +2 level adjustment so we're up to an ECL 5 even before we conceder the other bonuses a dire weasel has compared to a human.

I'm no expert on level adjustments, but I'd guess at least another +1. That'll get you up to ECL 6. So to be a first level warlock your fiendish dire weasel would be ECL 7.

It could be even higher.

Ya, i was thinking it would be high, would it be better if i droped the fiendish part? What would it be if i was just a normal weasel i wonder...
Captain_Kobold
09-07-07, 09:05 PM You will need to have some sort of adjustment or template that will give your Dire Weasel humanlike intelligence in order to play him as a PC.

For a base starting point of the normal animal, the most common method would be the Awaken spell. This will give two extra HD in addition to the base animal, and whatever LA you end up with.
The fiendish template is probably not your best option since that would only give you an intelligence of 3. This is not good for a player character.
Easalyamusedoldman
09-07-07, 09:24 PM ok, Dire Weasel: +2 STR, +4 Dex, +0 Con, -2 Int, -4 Wis, +2 Cha?
Secrets Untold
09-08-07, 03:16 PM Nope, its more like:

Awakened Dire Weasel:
+4 STR, +8 DEX, +2 WIS, (10+1d3) CHA

With 5d8 racial HD, You have at least a flat ECL 5. Using what Savage Species says about LA: +1 for Natural Armor, +2 from the Constitution damage attack, +1 unbalanced Ability scores. That gives the Awakened Dire weasel a LA of +4, and an ECL of 9.

A normal Awakened weasel has:
-8 STR, +4 DEX, +2 WIS, (5+1d3) CHA

2 racial HD, and an LA of 0 (-1 Tiny size, -1 Unbalanced Abilities, +1 for skill bonuses). That's an ECL of 2, but on the lower end of that. I'd rule the effectivly negative LA gives you an ECL of 1, but that's my interpretation.

<When I say ECL, I mean without class levels tacked on>

And I can so see the normal weasel warlock hiding in a saddle bag or something, popping his head out, and blasting something apart.
Einvaldurinn_mikli
09-08-07, 04:03 PM Edited out.
Captain_Kobold
09-08-07, 07:37 PM As for the Awakened Fiendish Dire Weasel, with his five HD, I'd place him at LA +1. He has good BAB, two good saves, lousy skills and a few resistances. All in all, I'd say it was fair.

He also has a natural constitution-damaging attack that does not allow a save. Combined with fast movement, natural armour and high ability modifiers, I'd say that the 5HD awakened dire weasel would have an ECL of at least 6. Apply the fiendsh template and LA as normal.
Einvaldurinn_mikli
09-08-07, 07:56 PM He also has a natural constitution-damaging attack that does not allow a save. Combined with fast movement, natural armour and high ability modifiers, I'd say that the 5HD awakened dire weasel would have an ECL of at least 6. Apply the fiendsh template and LA as normal.

Comparing that ability to say, Shivering Touch and it suddenly doesn't seem all that overwhelming. Can the weasel make additional bite attacks when attached? If not, I stick with my initial estimate. I mean, most characters have what, CON 14? Takes 6 rounds to kill with CON drain and maybe 4 if he can still make bite attacks. That's not all that good.
Omega_Grey
09-08-07, 08:48 PM Why is everyone saying you need to be awakened? Perhaps you all missed the part of the fiendish template that gives you an intelligence of 3? So a fiendish Dire Weasel would have STR +4, DEX +8, WIS +2, and INT would be 3 (since a creature that naturally has an intelligence of one or two cannot raise it higher you would have to start at the default minimum). Of course awaken would give you higher mental stats, but it would also add two hit dice into the equation. As for the LA of a fiendish dire weasel that wasnt awakened, I would go around +3. Adding in its racial hit dice and we get an ECL of 6, which seems fair to me.
Easalyamusedoldman
09-08-07, 10:40 PM And I can so see the normal weasel warlock hiding in a saddle bag or something, popping his head out, and blasting something apart.

I like that image, and i've changed my mind about the fiendish and dire parts, i'm going to do a normal Awackened Weasel.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Easalyamusedoldman 09-07-07, 05:42 PM	Any idea what te LA for a Fiendish Dire Weasel would be? I want to be one for my next adventure. He's going to be a Warlock.
Horatio Hornblower 09-07-07, 07:39 PM	Any idea what te LA for a Fiendish Dire Weasel would be? I want to be one for my next adventure. He's going to be a Warlock. Of course, it would have to be an awaken creature per the spell in the PHB. Dire weasels have three hit dice and the fiendish template would be +2 level adjustment so we're up to an ECL 5 even before we conceder the other bonuses a dire weasel has compared to a human. I'm no expert on level adjustments, but I'd guess at least another +1. That'll get you up to ECL 6. So to be a first level warlock your fiendish dire weasel would be ECL 7. It could be even higher.
Easalyamusedoldman 09-07-07, 07:57 PM	Of course, it would have to be an awaken creature per the spell in the PHB. Dire weasels have three hit dice and the fiendish template would be +2 level adjustment so we're up to an ECL 5 even before we conceder the other bonuses a dire weasel has compared to a human. I'm no expert on level adjustments, but I'd guess at least another +1. That'll get you up to ECL 6. So to be a first level warlock your fiendish dire weasel would be ECL 7. It could be even higher. Ya, i was thinking it would be high, would it be better if i droped the fiendish part? What would it be if i was just a normal weasel i wonder...
Captain_Kobold 09-07-07, 09:05 PM	You will need to have some sort of adjustment or template that will give your Dire Weasel humanlike intelligence in order to play him as a PC. For a base starting point of the normal animal, the most common method would be the Awaken spell. This will give two extra HD in addition to the base animal, and whatever LA you end up with. The fiendish template is probably not your best option since that would only give you an intelligence of 3. This is not good for a player character.
Easalyamusedoldman 09-07-07, 09:24 PM	ok, Dire Weasel: +2 STR, +4 Dex, +0 Con, -2 Int, -4 Wis, +2 Cha?
Secrets Untold 09-08-07, 03:16 PM	Nope, its more like: Awakened Dire Weasel: +4 STR, +8 DEX, +2 WIS, (10+1d3) CHA With 5d8 racial HD, You have at least a flat ECL 5. Using what Savage Species says about LA: +1 for Natural Armor, +2 from the Constitution damage attack, +1 unbalanced Ability scores. That gives the Awakened Dire weasel a LA of +4, and an ECL of 9. A normal Awakened weasel has: -8 STR, +4 DEX, +2 WIS, (5+1d3) CHA 2 racial HD, and an LA of 0 (-1 Tiny size, -1 Unbalanced Abilities, +1 for skill bonuses). That's an ECL of 2, but on the lower end of that. I'd rule the effectivly negative LA gives you an ECL of 1, but that's my interpretation. <When I say ECL, I mean without class levels tacked on> And I can so see the normal weasel warlock hiding in a saddle bag or something, popping his head out, and blasting something apart.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 09-08-07, 04:03 PM	Edited out.
Captain_Kobold 09-08-07, 07:37 PM	As for the Awakened Fiendish Dire Weasel, with his five HD, I'd place him at LA +1. He has good BAB, two good saves, lousy skills and a few resistances. All in all, I'd say it was fair. He also has a natural constitution-damaging attack that does not allow a save. Combined with fast movement, natural armour and high ability modifiers, I'd say that the 5HD awakened dire weasel would have an ECL of at least 6. Apply the fiendsh template and LA as normal.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 09-08-07, 07:56 PM	He also has a natural constitution-damaging attack that does not allow a save. Combined with fast movement, natural armour and high ability modifiers, I'd say that the 5HD awakened dire weasel would have an ECL of at least 6. Apply the fiendsh template and LA as normal. Comparing that ability to say, Shivering Touch and it suddenly doesn't seem all that overwhelming. Can the weasel make additional bite attacks when attached? If not, I stick with my initial estimate. I mean, most characters have what, CON 14? Takes 6 rounds to kill with CON drain and maybe 4 if he can still make bite attacks. That's not all that good.
Omega_Grey 09-08-07, 08:48 PM	Why is everyone saying you need to be awakened? Perhaps you all missed the part of the fiendish template that gives you an intelligence of 3? So a fiendish Dire Weasel would have STR +4, DEX +8, WIS +2, and INT would be 3 (since a creature that naturally has an intelligence of one or two cannot raise it higher you would have to start at the default minimum). Of course awaken would give you higher mental stats, but it would also add two hit dice into the equation. As for the LA of a fiendish dire weasel that wasnt awakened, I would go around +3. Adding in its racial hit dice and we get an ECL of 6, which seems fair to me.
Easalyamusedoldman 09-08-07, 10:40 PM	And I can so see the normal weasel warlock hiding in a saddle bag or something, popping his head out, and blasting something apart. I like that image, and i've changed my mind about the fiendish and dire parts, i'm going to do a normal Awackened Weasel.