Five good reasons to create Half-Elf? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Five good reasons to create Half-Elf? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
RaivokasMagma
07-21-07, 11:36 AM This is my first time in forum. My friend says that Half-Elfs are crappy race. But i want to create some kind of Half-Elf character. So say me five good reasons to create Half-Elf and say too what is good class for Half-Elf.
Malchius
07-21-07, 11:45 AM Urban Tracking, Track in towns and cities by Gather Information which you happen to have +2 to.
AMGriffin
07-21-07, 12:08 PM Well, your friend is right, Half-elves SUUUUCK. They were pretty good in 2E, but they SUUUUCK in 3.5. They're going to be outdone by elves most of the time and humans all of the time. There are five reasons to play a half-elf, well the one presented in the PHB...

1.) Roleplaying
2.) Roleplaying
3.) Roleplaying
4.) Roleplaying
5.) Bard substitution levels from Races of Destiny

I'd talk to your DM about maybe giving something to make half-elves a bit more um...useful. An easy fix is to replace their diplomacy and gather information bonuses with the 4 extra skill points at first level and one extra skill point per level that humans receive.

Or there's this little number:

• Medium size
• 30 feet base land speed
• Low-light vision
• +4 racial bonus on saves against sleep spells and a +2 bonus on saves against mind-effecting spells.
• +1 racial bonus on listen and spot checks.
• +2 racial bonus on search checks.
• One bonus feat at first level.
• Mixed Blood: For all effects related to race, half-elves are considered both human and elven.
• Favored CLass: Any.
JarionSilverblades
07-21-07, 02:35 PM AMGriffin is right Half-elves are just awful.

Here is the Half-elf upgrade I did for my campaign world, I tried to give them a balance of their parent races ablities and traits.

HALF-ELF ~UPGRADE~

HALF-ELF RACIAL TRAITS
● Medium: As Medium creatures, Half-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to his size.
● Half-elves base land speed is 30 feet.
● Low-Light Vision: Half-elves can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retain the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
● +2 racial bonus on saving throws against Enchantment and Sleep spells and similar effects.
● +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search and Spot checks.
● Bonus feat at 1st level.
● +1 racial bonus on all reflex saving throws: Half-elves retain a small sliver of their elf parent’s agility.
● Elven Blood.
● Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages Any.
● Favored Class: Any.
Pandapeep
07-21-07, 04:05 PM Be a elf stat wise but call yourself a half elf. Other wise, resist the urge to play a Half Elf. And your friend did the right thing. Friends don't let friends play half elfs
EvilVegan
07-21-07, 04:26 PM If you want to show how unimportant race is to actual gameplay you could play a half-elf.

A 20th level half-elf wizard vs a 20th level human wizard is going to have 1 less feat and 23 less skill points. Neither of which is going to much affect their ability to alter the world around them with finger wiggling, and the half-elf can do it with less light.
Jaxgaret
07-21-07, 04:30 PM 1) Half-Elf racial sub levels (Bard, Fighter, Ranger)
2) Uber-Diplomacy build
3) Playing in a core all-Elf party, don't want a Con penalty
4) You want to play a Scar Enforcer
5) You just feel like it

If you want to show how unimportant race is to actual gameplay you could play a half-elf.

A 20th level half-elf wizard vs a 20th level human wizard is going to have 1 less feat and 23 less skill points. Neither of which is going to much affect their ability to alter the world around them with finger wiggling, and the half-elf can do it with less light.

QFT
StevenO
07-21-07, 04:38 PM You want to play a beguiler who will also happen to max out Diplomacy and Gather Information.

You're looking at an Elf Only PrC that has prereqs that, if filled as desired, would lead to an XP penalty for multiclassing.

Your campain is going to be short so that your racial benefits are at least comprable to a human's.
Lawlicron
07-21-07, 07:06 PM Heres a good reason, you could possibly convince your DM to let you play a Half-Sea elf.
ArcTan
07-22-07, 11:19 AM If you want to show how unimportant race is to actual gameplay you could play a half-elf.

A 20th level half-elf wizard vs a 20th level human wizard is going to have 1 less feat and 23 less skill points. Neither of which is going to much affect their ability to alter the world around them with finger wiggling, and the half-elf can do it with less light.

Which is great, if the majority of the stuff in your campaign happens after 20th level (and the campaign *starts* at, say, level 10).

Otherwise, no, you will feel the difference.
CaoSlayer
07-22-07, 01:36 PM Bard substitution level.
EvilVegan
07-22-07, 03:44 PM Which is great, if the majority of the stuff in your campaign happens after 20th level (and the campaign *starts* at, say, level 10).

Otherwise, no, you will feel the difference.Yes, but not an important difference. It isn't going to make or break the character unless you're trying to do something absurd, like half-elf hulking hurler.
SunTzuWarmaster
07-22-07, 05:15 PM There is one reason - you plan on a build that will take XP penalties and whose levels include bard (for the substitution). Also, you didn't want to be a human for the extra feat and skills

For instance - Bard1/Wu Jen4/Ultimate Magus X

Okay, there really is no reason.
malisteen
07-22-07, 05:59 PM Substitution levels from races of destiny (particularly bard)

Elf-Only PrC in a build that would otherwise take exp penalties

Diplomancer (possibly not a real reason, since a diplomancer so optimized that he needs the +2 racial is probably going to break a casual game in two)

Roleplaying. Both Half Orcs and Half Elves kind of bite, mechanically. However, the half-bloods are cool and offer some serious role-play opportunities not available to pureblood races, and neither are so bad mechanically that a character of that race will be unable to contribute to the party.

Your DM allows Racial Paragon Classes from unearthed arcana. The 1/2 elf can take two of them for +4 stat bonus, some bonus feats, and 4 levels of caster progression (if you're a caster to start) over six levels. Not uber, but worthy of consideration.

Maybe 1/2 elf bard 1(sub); 1/2 elf paragon 3; human paragon 3; Dragon Disciple 10; 1/2 dragon paragon 3? The perfect embodiment of a 1/2 elf, 1/2 human, 1/2 dragon? Half again the character of any other character?
WhiteRaven810
07-22-07, 06:15 PM Friends don't let friends play half elfs

Zing!

You're looking at an Elf Only PrC that has prereqs that, if filled as desired, would lead to an XP penalty for multiclassing.
.

Best reason I've heard yet, besides that roleplaying a half race can be fun.
Skritz_the_Lizardmen
07-22-07, 06:42 PM 1) Roleplay
2) Dwarf will hate you a little less...
Disciple_of_Juiblex
07-22-07, 07:01 PM 1. Bard (as stated above)
2. Other class features like a half elf warrior or ranger
3. Role-playing
4. Acces to elf only classes
5. To play a Scar Enforcer (races of destiny) and hunt down elves/humans/half-elves, and to no longer be an elf or a human
Thomar_of_Uointer
07-22-07, 11:20 PM HALF-ELF ~UPGRADE~

HALF-ELF RACIAL TRAITS
● Medium: As Medium creatures, Half-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to his size.
● Half-elves base land speed is 30 feet.
● Low-Light Vision: Half-elves can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retain the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
● +2 racial bonus on saving throws against Enchantment and Sleep spells and similar effects.
● +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search and Spot checks.
● Bonus feat at 1st level.
● +1 racial bonus on all reflex saving throws: Half-elves retain a small sliver of their elf parent’s agility.
● Elven Blood.
● Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages Any.
● Favored Class: Any.

Was the purpose of that to make anything with elf blood superior to humans just because it's an elf? Because you succeeded at it. I'd trade that for bonus skill points any day, it's far too good compared to the human.

Magma, half-elves are considered a relatively weak race. However, they're not the worst character concept you could come up with.
skydin
07-23-07, 03:57 AM did anyone ever stat out the sartan/patryn from the deathgate cycle by margaret weis?

this sounds like its totaly off topic, but for some reason half elves sucking made me think of them...

also, next to the human, EVERYTHING looks powerful. thats how its supposed to work.
EvilVegan
07-23-07, 09:41 AM did anyone ever stat out the sartan/patryn from the deathgate cycle by margaret weis and tracy hickman?

this sounds like its totaly off topic, but for some reason half elves sucking made me think of them...

also, next to the human, EVERYTHING looks powerful. thats how its supposed to work.What in the blue hell of Abarrach brought that up?! And why'd you leave tracy out of it?

Start a new thread mofo!
Jaxgaret
07-23-07, 06:29 PM also, next to the human, EVERYTHING looks powerful. thats how its supposed to work.

Er.. humans are pretty powerful themselves.

Free feat + free skill points is nothing to sneeze at, particularly because it allows one to optimize their character even further than any other race (save the Strongheart Halfling).
skydin
07-23-07, 07:21 PM eh, one extra feat is alright i suppose. as for what brought that up, i explained that for some reason half elves sucking made me think of it. besides, it was only a side comment on my post, which was about humans being lame, so really i dont need to start a new thread for it do i?
Lawlicron
07-23-07, 11:52 PM eh, one extra feat is alright i suppose. as for what brought that up, i explained that for some reason half elves sucking made me think of it. besides, it was only a side comment on my post, which was about humans being lame, so really i dont need to start a new thread for it do i?

If your going to bash the best race in the game you do.
runestar
07-24-07, 12:05 AM If you want to max out your diplomacy score, half-elf is the way to go...
RaivokasMagma
07-24-07, 06:04 AM Ok.So half-elves would be good diplomats if i don't pimp my half-elf. Bard and beguiler seems to be good class for half-elf.
EvilVegan
07-24-07, 04:56 PM eh, one extra feat is alright i suppose. as for what brought that up, i explained that for some reason half elves sucking made me think of it. besides, it was only a side comment on my post, which was about humans being lame, so really i dont need to start a new thread for it do i?

You don't need to, I was hoping you would so we could stat out some Sartan and Patryn. . .

It doesn't really fit this thread.
skydin
07-24-07, 09:37 PM why dont you start the thread? I happen to have an irrational dislike of starting my own threads. of course if you cant or dont care, i suppose ill do it.
ArcTan
07-25-07, 04:02 AM did anyone ever stat out the sartan/patryn from the deathgate cycle by margaret weis?

this sounds like its totaly off topic, but for some reason half elves sucking made me think of them...

also, next to the human, EVERYTHING looks powerful. thats how its supposed to work.

Really? Because the Half-Elf looks okay until you compare it to the Human. Then you realize it sucks and you'd be better off writing "Human" on your character sheet and say that your character has a "trace of elven blood" that makes her pretty with long ears.
NASCAR_1080i
07-25-07, 04:46 AM Really? Because the Half-Elf looks okay until you compare it to the Human. Then you realize it sucks and you'd be better off writing "Human" on your character sheet and say that your character has a "trace of elven blood" that makes her pretty with long ears.

YAY, the voice of reason
The_Shaman
07-25-07, 06:55 AM Elven PrCs without elven penalties to certain stats, some okay substitution levels, and ... well, I guess that makes two. I wonder, are half-elves eligible for elven substitution levels, say if they take racial paragon levels or something? Because, you know, both the ranger and wizard ones are pretty great, but both can definitely benefit from a better constitution.
Becket
07-25-07, 08:32 AM In my homebrew world, I decided to give both half elves and half orcs a bit of boosting. In fact, they are half nothing, they are mystical versions of their parent races. If an elf or orc is born on the night of, before, or after a full moon, they are born as a high-elf or high-orc. the High-elf is the same statistically as the phb elf, but their attribures are adjusted -2str/+2int and they gain the same type of telepathy as ghostwise halflings from FRCS. High orcs gain +2wis on top of their existing stat mods, and gain speak with spirits 1/day (spirit as defined in complete divine). To round out a race for every stat, Gnomes apply -2wis/+2cha to existing stats.
Orcmonk220
07-25-07, 09:54 AM Place yourself in a community that is all human except yourself, and then show off by taking the Arcane Archer PrC. Oh, and run for Mayor. :P
SilverFoxKnows
07-25-07, 05:38 PM I'll be the dissenting voice. Play the Half Elf. Let's compare the two. Both have a 30 move. Both have Low Light Vision (which has been fairly important in our games). Both are immune to sleep. Both get a +2 to save vs enchantments. Even so far.

Full Elves get some weapon proficiencies (may or may not be an issue depending on class), the auto Search for secret doors (pretty cool), +2 to Dex (cool), -2 to Con (suck), +2 to Listen/Search/Spot (cool) favored class Wizard.

Half Elves get +1 to Listen/Search/Spot (still pretty cool), +2 to Diplomacy/Sense Motive (useless for a Fighter, great for a skill monkey), no stat modifiers (neither good nor bad), favored class Any (that rocks)

So what makes them suck? They get a total of +7 to various skills while Elves get +6. They give up the auto Search and the weapon proficiencies for favored class Any. That sucks, how?

Play one if you want to be a Bard and don't want the Gnome's 20 move and small weapons. Play one if you want to be a Rogue and don't want the Halflings 20 move, small weapons and normal vision. Play one if you want to be a Ranger or Scout with good vision, good Listen/Spot who isn't flimsy. Play one if you like the flavor. Play one just to spite your friend who says they suck. Play what you like.
hazel92
07-31-07, 02:05 PM There's also Outcast Champion in Races of Destiny. For that you have to be a half elf or a half orc.

Avenging strike is pretty nice....
AMGriffin
07-31-07, 06:30 PM The big problem with half-elves(and to a lesser degree, half-orcs) is that while yes they can out-do their non-human parent in a few select roles, usually roles their non-human parent is very-ill suited to perform in at that, they are ultimately going to be outdone by a human almost every time.

EDIT: Has anyone considered turning "Half-elf" and "Half-orc" into feats that could be taken at first level, with a few adjustments, of course?
Teh_username
07-31-07, 06:33 PM The �-E substitution levels for Fighter are pretty nice, and Half-drow is a pretty good race mechanically that shines for roleplaying reasons (and gives access to a horrifyingly-overpowered feat from Drow of the Underdark - just ignore the sidebar that removes their Darkvision for no good reason)*.

*Not to mention the interesting mechanical and RP dynamics of playing a half-drow in an all-drow game, if one comes up.
AMGriffin
07-31-07, 09:59 PM Half-Drow never really impressed me honestly.

They've got darkvision, woo. I will agree however that half-races make for great roleplaying. My favorite race to roleplay is the half-orc.
ToastedAmphibian
07-31-07, 11:13 PM The big problem with half-elves(and to a lesser degree, half-orcs) is that while yes they can out-do their non-human parent in a few select roles, usually roles their non-human parent is very-ill suited to perform in at that, they are ultimately going to be outdone by a human almost every time.

EDIT: Has anyone considered turning "Half-elf" and "Half-orc" into feats that could be taken at first level, with a few adjustments, of course?

For my human bonus feat, ill take Half-orc!

hey wait, dosnt taht just make me a half-orc with an extra skillpoint?
ToastedAmphibian
07-31-07, 11:15 PM Just out of curiosity, why will dragons mate with anything, but orcs and elves only cross bred with humans? Are orcs to good to rape elven women the way they do humans? Is there some genetic complication that prevents elf-dwarves? (Aside from the general hatred) Where can i find good stats for a Dwarven-Half orc?
Teh_username
08-01-07, 02:34 AM Just out of curiosity, why will dragons mate with anything, but orcs and elves only cross bred with humans?
The fact that Dragons are an innately magical race known for their fecundity (in regards to half-breeds) while elves are fragile beings with difficult and delicate fertility cycles, for one?

I mean, they do say this pretty explicitly in the books.
Sphere
08-01-07, 07:29 AM Dragonmark of Storms, it lets you pilot an airship.
Spikes01k
08-01-07, 08:06 AM There is a semi-official fix on half-elves, give them the same bonus to skill points as humans; this if from Unearthed Arcana. Although it is not the most creative concept in the game it is however it works.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RaivokasMagma 07-21-07, 11:36 AM	This is my first time in forum. My friend says that Half-Elfs are crappy race. But i want to create some kind of Half-Elf character. So say me five good reasons to create Half-Elf and say too what is good class for Half-Elf.
Malchius 07-21-07, 11:45 AM	Urban Tracking, Track in towns and cities by Gather Information which you happen to have +2 to.
AMGriffin 07-21-07, 12:08 PM	Well, your friend is right, Half-elves SUUUUCK. They were pretty good in 2E, but they SUUUUCK in 3.5. They're going to be outdone by elves most of the time and humans all of the time. There are five reasons to play a half-elf, well the one presented in the PHB... 1.) Roleplaying 2.) Roleplaying 3.) Roleplaying 4.) Roleplaying 5.) Bard substitution levels from Races of Destiny I'd talk to your DM about maybe giving something to make half-elves a bit more um...useful. An easy fix is to replace their diplomacy and gather information bonuses with the 4 extra skill points at first level and one extra skill point per level that humans receive. Or there's this little number: • Medium size • 30 feet base land speed • Low-light vision • +4 racial bonus on saves against sleep spells and a +2 bonus on saves against mind-effecting spells. • +1 racial bonus on listen and spot checks. • +2 racial bonus on search checks. • One bonus feat at first level. • Mixed Blood: For all effects related to race, half-elves are considered both human and elven. • Favored CLass: Any.
JarionSilverblades 07-21-07, 02:35 PM	AMGriffin is right Half-elves are just awful. Here is the Half-elf upgrade I did for my campaign world, I tried to give them a balance of their parent races ablities and traits. HALF-ELF ~UPGRADE~ HALF-ELF RACIAL TRAITS ● Medium: As Medium creatures, Half-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to his size. ● Half-elves base land speed is 30 feet. ● Low-Light Vision: Half-elves can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retain the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. ● +2 racial bonus on saving throws against Enchantment and Sleep spells and similar effects. ● +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search and Spot checks. ● Bonus feat at 1st level. ● +1 racial bonus on all reflex saving throws: Half-elves retain a small sliver of their elf parent’s agility. ● Elven Blood. ● Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages Any. ● Favored Class: Any.
Pandapeep 07-21-07, 04:05 PM	Be a elf stat wise but call yourself a half elf. Other wise, resist the urge to play a Half Elf. And your friend did the right thing. Friends don't let friends play half elfs
EvilVegan 07-21-07, 04:26 PM	If you want to show how unimportant race is to actual gameplay you could play a half-elf. A 20th level half-elf wizard vs a 20th level human wizard is going to have 1 less feat and 23 less skill points. Neither of which is going to much affect their ability to alter the world around them with finger wiggling, and the half-elf can do it with less light.
Jaxgaret 07-21-07, 04:30 PM	1) Half-Elf racial sub levels (Bard, Fighter, Ranger) 2) Uber-Diplomacy build 3) Playing in a core all-Elf party, don't want a Con penalty 4) You want to play a Scar Enforcer 5) You just feel like it If you want to show how unimportant race is to actual gameplay you could play a half-elf. A 20th level half-elf wizard vs a 20th level human wizard is going to have 1 less feat and 23 less skill points. Neither of which is going to much affect their ability to alter the world around them with finger wiggling, and the half-elf can do it with less light. QFT
StevenO 07-21-07, 04:38 PM	You want to play a beguiler who will also happen to max out Diplomacy and Gather Information. You're looking at an Elf Only PrC that has prereqs that, if filled as desired, would lead to an XP penalty for multiclassing. Your campain is going to be short so that your racial benefits are at least comprable to a human's.
Lawlicron 07-21-07, 07:06 PM	Heres a good reason, you could possibly convince your DM to let you play a Half-Sea elf.
ArcTan 07-22-07, 11:19 AM	If you want to show how unimportant race is to actual gameplay you could play a half-elf. A 20th level half-elf wizard vs a 20th level human wizard is going to have 1 less feat and 23 less skill points. Neither of which is going to much affect their ability to alter the world around them with finger wiggling, and the half-elf can do it with less light. Which is great, if the majority of the stuff in your campaign happens after 20th level (and the campaign starts at, say, level 10). Otherwise, no, you will feel the difference.
CaoSlayer 07-22-07, 01:36 PM	Bard substitution level.
EvilVegan 07-22-07, 03:44 PM	Which is great, if the majority of the stuff in your campaign happens after 20th level (and the campaign starts at, say, level 10). Otherwise, no, you will feel the difference.Yes, but not an important difference. It isn't going to make or break the character unless you're trying to do something absurd, like half-elf hulking hurler.
SunTzuWarmaster 07-22-07, 05:15 PM	There is one reason - you plan on a build that will take XP penalties and whose levels include bard (for the substitution). Also, you didn't want to be a human for the extra feat and skills For instance - Bard1/Wu Jen4/Ultimate Magus X Okay, there really is no reason.
malisteen 07-22-07, 05:59 PM	Substitution levels from races of destiny (particularly bard) Elf-Only PrC in a build that would otherwise take exp penalties Diplomancer (possibly not a real reason, since a diplomancer so optimized that he needs the +2 racial is probably going to break a casual game in two) Roleplaying. Both Half Orcs and Half Elves kind of bite, mechanically. However, the half-bloods are cool and offer some serious role-play opportunities not available to pureblood races, and neither are so bad mechanically that a character of that race will be unable to contribute to the party. Your DM allows Racial Paragon Classes from unearthed arcana. The 1/2 elf can take two of them for +4 stat bonus, some bonus feats, and 4 levels of caster progression (if you're a caster to start) over six levels. Not uber, but worthy of consideration. Maybe 1/2 elf bard 1(sub); 1/2 elf paragon 3; human paragon 3; Dragon Disciple 10; 1/2 dragon paragon 3? The perfect embodiment of a 1/2 elf, 1/2 human, 1/2 dragon? Half again the character of any other character?
WhiteRaven810 07-22-07, 06:15 PM	Friends don't let friends play half elfs Zing! You're looking at an Elf Only PrC that has prereqs that, if filled as desired, would lead to an XP penalty for multiclassing. . Best reason I've heard yet, besides that roleplaying a half race can be fun.
Skritz_the_Lizardmen 07-22-07, 06:42 PM	1) Roleplay 2) Dwarf will hate you a little less...
Disciple_of_Juiblex 07-22-07, 07:01 PM	1. Bard (as stated above) 2. Other class features like a half elf warrior or ranger 3. Role-playing 4. Acces to elf only classes 5. To play a Scar Enforcer (races of destiny) and hunt down elves/humans/half-elves, and to no longer be an elf or a human
Thomar_of_Uointer 07-22-07, 11:20 PM	HALF-ELF ~UPGRADE~ HALF-ELF RACIAL TRAITS ● Medium: As Medium creatures, Half-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to his size. ● Half-elves base land speed is 30 feet. ● Low-Light Vision: Half-elves can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retain the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. ● +2 racial bonus on saving throws against Enchantment and Sleep spells and similar effects. ● +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search and Spot checks. ● Bonus feat at 1st level. ● +1 racial bonus on all reflex saving throws: Half-elves retain a small sliver of their elf parent’s agility. ● Elven Blood. ● Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages Any. ● Favored Class: Any. Was the purpose of that to make anything with elf blood superior to humans just because it's an elf? Because you succeeded at it. I'd trade that for bonus skill points any day, it's far too good compared to the human. Magma, half-elves are considered a relatively weak race. However, they're not the worst character concept you could come up with.
skydin 07-23-07, 03:57 AM	did anyone ever stat out the sartan/patryn from the deathgate cycle by margaret weis? this sounds like its totaly off topic, but for some reason half elves sucking made me think of them... also, next to the human, EVERYTHING looks powerful. thats how its supposed to work.
EvilVegan 07-23-07, 09:41 AM	did anyone ever stat out the sartan/patryn from the deathgate cycle by margaret weis and tracy hickman? this sounds like its totaly off topic, but for some reason half elves sucking made me think of them... also, next to the human, EVERYTHING looks powerful. thats how its supposed to work.What in the blue hell of Abarrach brought that up?! And why'd you leave tracy out of it? Start a new thread mofo!
Jaxgaret 07-23-07, 06:29 PM	also, next to the human, EVERYTHING looks powerful. thats how its supposed to work. Er.. humans are pretty powerful themselves. Free feat + free skill points is nothing to sneeze at, particularly because it allows one to optimize their character even further than any other race (save the Strongheart Halfling).
skydin 07-23-07, 07:21 PM	eh, one extra feat is alright i suppose. as for what brought that up, i explained that for some reason half elves sucking made me think of it. besides, it was only a side comment on my post, which was about humans being lame, so really i dont need to start a new thread for it do i?
Lawlicron 07-23-07, 11:52 PM	eh, one extra feat is alright i suppose. as for what brought that up, i explained that for some reason half elves sucking made me think of it. besides, it was only a side comment on my post, which was about humans being lame, so really i dont need to start a new thread for it do i? If your going to bash the best race in the game you do.
runestar 07-24-07, 12:05 AM	If you want to max out your diplomacy score, half-elf is the way to go...
RaivokasMagma 07-24-07, 06:04 AM	Ok.So half-elves would be good diplomats if i don't pimp my half-elf. Bard and beguiler seems to be good class for half-elf.
EvilVegan 07-24-07, 04:56 PM	eh, one extra feat is alright i suppose. as for what brought that up, i explained that for some reason half elves sucking made me think of it. besides, it was only a side comment on my post, which was about humans being lame, so really i dont need to start a new thread for it do i? You don't need to, I was hoping you would so we could stat out some Sartan and Patryn. . . It doesn't really fit this thread.
skydin 07-24-07, 09:37 PM	why dont you start the thread? I happen to have an irrational dislike of starting my own threads. of course if you cant or dont care, i suppose ill do it.
ArcTan 07-25-07, 04:02 AM	did anyone ever stat out the sartan/patryn from the deathgate cycle by margaret weis? this sounds like its totaly off topic, but for some reason half elves sucking made me think of them... also, next to the human, EVERYTHING looks powerful. thats how its supposed to work. Really? Because the Half-Elf looks okay until you compare it to the Human. Then you realize it sucks and you'd be better off writing "Human" on your character sheet and say that your character has a "trace of elven blood" that makes her pretty with long ears.
NASCAR_1080i 07-25-07, 04:46 AM	Really? Because the Half-Elf looks okay until you compare it to the Human. Then you realize it sucks and you'd be better off writing "Human" on your character sheet and say that your character has a "trace of elven blood" that makes her pretty with long ears. YAY, the voice of reason
The_Shaman 07-25-07, 06:55 AM	Elven PrCs without elven penalties to certain stats, some okay substitution levels, and ... well, I guess that makes two. I wonder, are half-elves eligible for elven substitution levels, say if they take racial paragon levels or something? Because, you know, both the ranger and wizard ones are pretty great, but both can definitely benefit from a better constitution.
Becket 07-25-07, 08:32 AM	In my homebrew world, I decided to give both half elves and half orcs a bit of boosting. In fact, they are half nothing, they are mystical versions of their parent races. If an elf or orc is born on the night of, before, or after a full moon, they are born as a high-elf or high-orc. the High-elf is the same statistically as the phb elf, but their attribures are adjusted -2str/+2int and they gain the same type of telepathy as ghostwise halflings from FRCS. High orcs gain +2wis on top of their existing stat mods, and gain speak with spirits 1/day (spirit as defined in complete divine). To round out a race for every stat, Gnomes apply -2wis/+2cha to existing stats.
Orcmonk220 07-25-07, 09:54 AM	Place yourself in a community that is all human except yourself, and then show off by taking the Arcane Archer PrC. Oh, and run for Mayor. :P
SilverFoxKnows 07-25-07, 05:38 PM	I'll be the dissenting voice. Play the Half Elf. Let's compare the two. Both have a 30 move. Both have Low Light Vision (which has been fairly important in our games). Both are immune to sleep. Both get a +2 to save vs enchantments. Even so far. Full Elves get some weapon proficiencies (may or may not be an issue depending on class), the auto Search for secret doors (pretty cool), +2 to Dex (cool), -2 to Con (suck), +2 to Listen/Search/Spot (cool) favored class Wizard. Half Elves get +1 to Listen/Search/Spot (still pretty cool), +2 to Diplomacy/Sense Motive (useless for a Fighter, great for a skill monkey), no stat modifiers (neither good nor bad), favored class Any (that rocks) So what makes them suck? They get a total of +7 to various skills while Elves get +6. They give up the auto Search and the weapon proficiencies for favored class Any. That sucks, how? Play one if you want to be a Bard and don't want the Gnome's 20 move and small weapons. Play one if you want to be a Rogue and don't want the Halflings 20 move, small weapons and normal vision. Play one if you want to be a Ranger or Scout with good vision, good Listen/Spot who isn't flimsy. Play one if you like the flavor. Play one just to spite your friend who says they suck. Play what you like.
hazel92 07-31-07, 02:05 PM	There's also Outcast Champion in Races of Destiny. For that you have to be a half elf or a half orc. Avenging strike is pretty nice....
AMGriffin 07-31-07, 06:30 PM	The big problem with half-elves(and to a lesser degree, half-orcs) is that while yes they can out-do their non-human parent in a few select roles, usually roles their non-human parent is very-ill suited to perform in at that, they are ultimately going to be outdone by a human almost every time. EDIT: Has anyone considered turning "Half-elf" and "Half-orc" into feats that could be taken at first level, with a few adjustments, of course?
Teh_username 07-31-07, 06:33 PM	The �-E substitution levels for Fighter are pretty nice, and Half-drow is a pretty good race mechanically that shines for roleplaying reasons (and gives access to a horrifyingly-overpowered feat from Drow of the Underdark - just ignore the sidebar that removes their Darkvision for no good reason). Not to mention the interesting mechanical and RP dynamics of playing a half-drow in an all-drow game, if one comes up.
AMGriffin 07-31-07, 09:59 PM	Half-Drow never really impressed me honestly. They've got darkvision, woo. I will agree however that half-races make for great roleplaying. My favorite race to roleplay is the half-orc.
ToastedAmphibian 07-31-07, 11:13 PM	The big problem with half-elves(and to a lesser degree, half-orcs) is that while yes they can out-do their non-human parent in a few select roles, usually roles their non-human parent is very-ill suited to perform in at that, they are ultimately going to be outdone by a human almost every time. EDIT: Has anyone considered turning "Half-elf" and "Half-orc" into feats that could be taken at first level, with a few adjustments, of course? For my human bonus feat, ill take Half-orc! hey wait, dosnt taht just make me a half-orc with an extra skillpoint?
ToastedAmphibian 07-31-07, 11:15 PM	Just out of curiosity, why will dragons mate with anything, but orcs and elves only cross bred with humans? Are orcs to good to rape elven women the way they do humans? Is there some genetic complication that prevents elf-dwarves? (Aside from the general hatred) Where can i find good stats for a Dwarven-Half orc?
Teh_username 08-01-07, 02:34 AM	Just out of curiosity, why will dragons mate with anything, but orcs and elves only cross bred with humans? The fact that Dragons are an innately magical race known for their fecundity (in regards to half-breeds) while elves are fragile beings with difficult and delicate fertility cycles, for one? I mean, they do say this pretty explicitly in the books.
Sphere 08-01-07, 07:29 AM	Dragonmark of Storms, it lets you pilot an airship.
Spikes01k 08-01-07, 08:06 AM	There is a semi-official fix on half-elves, give them the same bonus to skill points as humans; this if from Unearthed Arcana. Although it is not the most creative concept in the game it is however it works.