Post/Author/DateTime	Post
scottishcheese 02-25-07, 07:35 AM	Who thinks gargoyls are a cool race and also wot would be a good class for them? :banghead:
Sudnji_cas 02-25-07, 07:45 AM	I love gargoyles they are so cooooool!!! Best class would probably be ranger or rogue.
scottishcheese 02-25-07, 07:45 AM	thanks
Finfreeze 02-25-07, 08:05 AM	The +5 LA is ridiculous. They're closer to +2 or +3 LA. Considering their stats, ECL, and natural flight, barbarian and fighter fit best. You could fit some rogue or ranger levels there if you want to keep your hiding abilities up to par. A bow would be nice if you want to do a little attacking from a distance. But tactical flight is such a pain if you don't have at least good maneuverability. You have to move at least half your flight speed each round or you end up stalling and probably taking falling damage, you can't hover without a feat (and even then you need to spend a move action), can't turn more than 90º in place, and you can't ascend after diving unless you move 5' forward.
spncrbrrtt 02-25-07, 08:12 AM	I use em as guards. I have a cleric character that has 16 ice element gargoyles guarding his sanctum on the isle of dread. It only costs 1000 gp to open a planar portal you know... :D
Jaxgaret 02-25-07, 11:17 AM	The +5 LA is ridiculous. They're closer to +2 or +3 LA. QFT. I'd place them at a total ECL of 4 or 5. The listed ECL of 9 is ridiculous. I would say that a good class for them would be the Scout, going for the Greater Manyshot/Skirmish combo. It would synergize well with their flying capability.
Finfreeze 02-25-07, 12:02 PM	QFT. I'd place them at a total ECL of 4 or 5. The listed ECL of 9 is ridiculous. Whoa ho ho ho! Stop the car! We got an emergency can't you see? ECL 4/5's a little too low. Remember that monstrous humanoid hit dice get full BAB and 2 good saves. +4 Strength, +4 Dexterity, +8 Constitution, +4 natural armor, DR/Magic, full BAB, and flight (even as cumbersome as gargoyle flight) is just too much for LA +0 or LA +1. I'd tentatively place them at LA +2, Starting ECL 6. They're tough and relatively mobile, but lack reach, which I guess is the really big thing for warrior-types.
Thomar_of_Uointer 02-25-07, 03:25 PM	I agree, scout would make a great class for gargoyles. Death From Above is a great character theme. Psychic warrior would also be interesting as a damage soaker build.
UnrelentingHoror 02-25-07, 09:23 PM	Hmmm, it might be just me but when I envision gargoyle combat, I envision improved grapple to establish a hold on a poor little squeeling halfling then taking your standard move of flying decently high and dropping him on something sharp, like a weather vien. :D Also flying by and dropping rocks on people is good. But yeah, a fighter type or a rogue or ranged combatant are all good choices.
Jaxgaret 02-25-07, 11:24 PM	Whoa ho ho ho! Stop the car! We got an emergency can't you see? ECL 4/5's a little too low. Remember that monstrous humanoid hit dice get full BAB and 2 good saves. +4 Strength, +4 Dexterity, +8 Constitution, +4 natural armor, DR/Magic, full BAB, and flight (even as cumbersome as gargoyle flight) is just too much for LA +0 or LA +1. I'd tentatively place them at LA +2, Starting ECL 6. They're tough and relatively mobile, but lack reach, which I guess is the really big thing for warrior-types. First thing: I could have sworn that Monstrous Humanoids got 3/4 BAB in 3.0. Did they change it to Full BAB in 3.5? That being said, I think an LA of +4, or 2HD/+3LA, would be plenty balanced. Tack on another level of LA on for WotC's standard anti-monster balancing if you wish.
OutlawJT 02-26-07, 03:26 PM	My personal opinion would be to keep the HD as is and reduce the LA to +3 (flight, high ability bonuses, NA). I think Scout is a great class for gargoyle. Also, Warlock! Unlimited scaling damage eldritch blasts from above. Throw on Eldritch spear and you can nail people from the clouds above with flyby attack to dodge into/out of the clouds for concealment.