Gnoll adjustment? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Gnoll adjustment? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Fenrir_Greyback
10-09-07, 12:12 PM Hey, I want to play a gnoll in this next game I;m starting in, but my DM only allows races with LA+0. Let me know if you think these adjustments would make it worthy of no LA.

strength +4, Constitution +2, Intelligence -2, Charisma -2. (those are in the MM)

Size: Medium

Speed: 30ft

Darkvision 60ft

No Racial HD

+1 Fortification instead of +3

BAB +1

Keep listen and spot as class skills, however no racial skill points. So you'd just go by class.

I was thinking no natural armour, but it almost seems underpowered then.

Automatic Languages: Gnoll, Common.
Bonus Languages: Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Orc.

Favoured class:Ranger

LA +0

Let me know what you think and if you have suggestions feel free to critique a bit until you feel it's worthy of LA+0.

Thanks.
Naderion
10-09-07, 12:24 PM You won't get under LA +1 with +4 Str and +2 Con.
Kadasbrass
10-09-07, 12:38 PM The skill points, class skills, BAB, and saves were based on racial hitdice, if you drop those you need to drop them as well.

The stats, +4 Str and +2 con are the only reason the gnoll is +1 LA (or has two hit dice, it shouldn't have both as a playable race, but wotc doesn't understand that). However if you do try to balance those out you'll just end up with another half-orc (+2x -2y and darkvision) with natural armor.

For +0 LA I recommend this from the Waking Lands:

Gnoll
+2 Strength, +2 Constitution, –2 Intelligence, –2 Charisma.
Medium: As Medium creatures, gnolls have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Gnolls base land speed is 30 feet.
Low-Light Vision: A gnoll can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. They retain the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
Automatic Languages: Gnoll. Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Orc.
Favored Class: Ranger. A multiclass gnoll's ranger class does not count when determining whether an experience point penalty is taken for multiclassing (see XP for Multiclass Characters, page 60 of the Player's Handbook).
Fenrir_Greyback
10-09-07, 12:41 PM That looks pretty good kadasbrass, do you think by adding scent ability I would make it too powerful?
Platstud
10-09-07, 01:19 PM That looks pretty good kadasbrass, do you think by adding scent ability I would make it too powerful?

Yes.
DreamerInsane
10-09-07, 04:28 PM Some racial +2 to Spot and Listen?
Tempest_Fennac
12-11-07, 06:23 AM I don't play D&D (yet) and I'd like to play as a non-evil LA 0 Gnoll once I can find a group, so you may find this thread from a different forum to be useful (it contains several ideas for Gnolls with no LA): http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63057 . Also, this could be useful: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/User:Mkill/LA_0_versions_of_several_races (I know this is an old thread, but I thought I'd mention these other variants in case they wer useful).
Neutronium_Dragon
12-11-07, 07:07 AM If you want the simplest solution (and one least likely to draw ire from anti-custom-content DMs), just take the half-orc stat block, drop the "orc blood" bit and make its subtype (Gnoll). No need to worry about LA either.
HernetheHunter
12-11-07, 10:59 AM Or if you want it bad enough see if the DM will go with a Monster Class.
Another_Poet
12-11-07, 11:08 AM Yes.

No! Think of the bonuses a dwarf or gnome gets for no LA. The Waking Lands gnoll presented above has no SLA's or saving throw bonuses, no Stability or any other cool tricks. It only has pidly low-liht vision instead of darkvision.

I would definitely add either scent or Nat Armr +1. Either of those, with the stats given above, would make a fine race.

ap
Tempest_Fennac
12-11-07, 11:09 AM The problem with taking Monster levels is that, while it's not that much of a problem for warrior-type classes, it would be a problem if you wanted to play as a skill monkey or Divine caster (or even an Arcane caster if you're really not bothered about min/maxing). I'd say nerfing the race itself is the best option.
qwerty1
12-11-07, 11:10 AM Try Races of the Wild inside is a LA breakdown of the gnoll use this.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fenrir_Greyback 10-09-07, 12:12 PM	Hey, I want to play a gnoll in this next game I;m starting in, but my DM only allows races with LA+0. Let me know if you think these adjustments would make it worthy of no LA. strength +4, Constitution +2, Intelligence -2, Charisma -2. (those are in the MM) Size: Medium Speed: 30ft Darkvision 60ft No Racial HD +1 Fortification instead of +3 BAB +1 Keep listen and spot as class skills, however no racial skill points. So you'd just go by class. I was thinking no natural armour, but it almost seems underpowered then. Automatic Languages: Gnoll, Common. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Orc. Favoured class:Ranger LA +0 Let me know what you think and if you have suggestions feel free to critique a bit until you feel it's worthy of LA+0. Thanks.
Naderion 10-09-07, 12:24 PM	You won't get under LA +1 with +4 Str and +2 Con.
Kadasbrass 10-09-07, 12:38 PM	The skill points, class skills, BAB, and saves were based on racial hitdice, if you drop those you need to drop them as well. The stats, +4 Str and +2 con are the only reason the gnoll is +1 LA (or has two hit dice, it shouldn't have both as a playable race, but wotc doesn't understand that). However if you do try to balance those out you'll just end up with another half-orc (+2x -2y and darkvision) with natural armor. For +0 LA I recommend this from the Waking Lands: Gnoll +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, –2 Intelligence, –2 Charisma. Medium: As Medium creatures, gnolls have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Gnolls base land speed is 30 feet. Low-Light Vision: A gnoll can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. They retain the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. Automatic Languages: Gnoll. Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Orc. Favored Class: Ranger. A multiclass gnoll's ranger class does not count when determining whether an experience point penalty is taken for multiclassing (see XP for Multiclass Characters, page 60 of the Player's Handbook).
Fenrir_Greyback 10-09-07, 12:41 PM	That looks pretty good kadasbrass, do you think by adding scent ability I would make it too powerful?
Platstud 10-09-07, 01:19 PM	That looks pretty good kadasbrass, do you think by adding scent ability I would make it too powerful? Yes.
DreamerInsane 10-09-07, 04:28 PM	Some racial +2 to Spot and Listen?
Tempest_Fennac 12-11-07, 06:23 AM	I don't play D&D (yet) and I'd like to play as a non-evil LA 0 Gnoll once I can find a group, so you may find this thread from a different forum to be useful (it contains several ideas for Gnolls with no LA): http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63057 . Also, this could be useful: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/User:Mkill/LA_0_versions_of_several_races (I know this is an old thread, but I thought I'd mention these other variants in case they wer useful).
Neutronium_Dragon 12-11-07, 07:07 AM	If you want the simplest solution (and one least likely to draw ire from anti-custom-content DMs), just take the half-orc stat block, drop the "orc blood" bit and make its subtype (Gnoll). No need to worry about LA either.
HernetheHunter 12-11-07, 10:59 AM	Or if you want it bad enough see if the DM will go with a Monster Class.
Another_Poet 12-11-07, 11:08 AM	Yes. No! Think of the bonuses a dwarf or gnome gets for no LA. The Waking Lands gnoll presented above has no SLA's or saving throw bonuses, no Stability or any other cool tricks. It only has pidly low-liht vision instead of darkvision. I would definitely add either scent or Nat Armr +1. Either of those, with the stats given above, would make a fine race. ap
Tempest_Fennac 12-11-07, 11:09 AM	The problem with taking Monster levels is that, while it's not that much of a problem for warrior-type classes, it would be a problem if you wanted to play as a skill monkey or Divine caster (or even an Arcane caster if you're really not bothered about min/maxing). I'd say nerfing the race itself is the best option.
qwerty1 12-11-07, 11:10 AM	Try Races of the Wild inside is a LA breakdown of the gnoll use this.