Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Karidil 08-06-07, 04:46 PM	So according to the SRD the Gnoll has a level adjustment of +1. It also states: "A gnoll begins with two levels of humanoid, which provide 2d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +1, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +3, Ref +0, and Will +0." Does this mean that a gnoll begins play as a ECL 3 character?:confused:
Witch 08-06-07, 04:47 PM	Yes.
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-06-07, 04:54 PM	Yep, if he's just a gnoll. ECL 4 if he has a class level.
1 ton ghost 08-06-07, 04:58 PM	is it possible to strip bonus HD and just go w/ LA and racial +'s and -'s? what is a good working solution for this? do hobgoblins actually have a +1 LA? i've seen arguements saying yes and no, however they don't seem to have many advantages warranting a +1
Witch 08-06-07, 04:59 PM	Racial Hit Dice are considered as part of a race's balance. No, you can't just go with the LA, in general.
Leonis472 08-06-07, 05:21 PM	is it possible to strip bonus HD and just go w/ LA and racial +'s and -'s? what is a good working solution for this? do hobgoblins actually have a +1 LA? i've seen arguements saying yes and no, however they don't seem to have many advantages warranting a +1Racial Hit Dice are considered as part of a race's balance. No, you can't just go with the LA, in general.Witch is right. However, allow me to offer a solution. Racial Hit Dice are intended to balance, but balance against what exactly? It has natural armor, more skill points and higher abilities, but the remainder of it is so similar to a Dwarf I believe it can be excused. So, greatly reduce the ability modifiers and give it only a few bonus skill points, leave the natural armor. What you end up with is a weak Gnoll, but a Gnoll still six feet in height. It doesn't make sense for a creature so large to not have racial hit dice and a higher level adjustment. What I did was what I've recommended in the previous paragraph, which removed the counterbalance for the hit dice. Since I took away weight from one side, I took away the weight of the hit dice from the other, leaving a +1 level adjustment. Basically a runt Gnoll, weakest of the packs. When I did this I made up a subculture of runt Gnolls, who, because the other Gnolls would fight and eat them, ran off and formed their own clan, perpetuating the genetics that made them shorter and weaker. They were good-aligned, and due to their smaller size and weaker frame, they developed their intelligence, and many even became Wizards. There's a few ways around this. You just have to find what the hit dice are balancing against and remove both it and the hit dice.
Leonis472 08-06-07, 05:28 PM	You also must realize that when you adjust ability scores and so on you make adjustments that have effects completely unrelated to battle. A Gnoll has natural armor because of his fur, so taking away his +1 natural armor means you've shaved him, or made a Gnoll who grows no fur naturally. If you take away from ability scores you make changes as well. A lower Constitution and Strength score gives us a weaker, scrawnier creature. A lower Intelligence score means a villain not quite smart enough to hatch nefarious schemes. A mayor with less Charisma means a poor speaker and therefore a poor politician. Remember that those things are meant to provide for battling, but have further-reaching repurcussions as well, such as appearance. Imagine seeing a Horned Demon with a Strength of 5. If it looked the same as it does in the Monster Manual, then it wouldn't make sense. Your eyes tell you he's gonna mess you up bad, but his hits are weaker than yours. I suppose the designers thought this process too delicate for most players, so they say making player characters from monsters can but should not be done. I disagree, but if it is to be done at all, it should be done very delicately. Very delicately.
Elemental_Elf 08-06-07, 06:23 PM	Gnolls in the Xin'drik Expeditions do not have their Racial Hit Dice and simply have a +1 LA.
Dwarven_Jihad 08-06-07, 06:45 PM	Or you could houserule it the other way and ditch the LA in favor of just the HD. Having to take 2 humanoid HD for +1 natural armor and a boost to strength seems reasonable to me.
Istaran 08-06-07, 06:49 PM	Gnolls in the Xin'drik Expeditions do not have their Racial Hit Dice and simply have a +1 LA. I play a gnoll in XE and it seems to be effectual but not broken. The LA hurts, the requirement to speak common hurts (that's a campaign specific rule, but for a race with -2 int, and thus incentives to play a lower int build, it can hurt to have to either buy up to 12 int or spend already sparse skill points on something as mundane as speaking common). The racial HD, imo, just serve to make the race unplayable for anything but a melee monster, and even in that role they are dragged down quite a bit by two HD of humanoid. The LA is well earned, the racial HD are more punative.
Leonis472 08-06-07, 06:50 PM	Nevermind, I misread the quote. I'm a moron. :)
runestar 08-06-07, 10:06 PM	To be fair, the gnoll is somewhat weak for its ECL (look at the goliath, it gets similar benefits, is LA+1, but lacks the racial HD). IMO, it would not be broken to either allow the gnoll at LA+0 (meaning you just have the 2 humanoid HD), or strip away the HD, and play it as a LA+1 race. This is normally how it goes, but an exception seems apt here, considering that the ECL of the gnoll seems unfair to begin with.:)